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Help with Envii Heretic?

strigamort

Bronze Contributor
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
Absolutely love this mod. It was, I think, my first mech. It served me well and I've handed it over to my girlfriend as her first mech. She loves it, especially the fire button (we won't tell her that the abalone is just a sticker).

Anyway, earlier my girlfriend hands me the mod declaring that something is wrong. I took the thing and looked it over. Battery was fine (Sony VTC5A), coils were good, everything looked perfect. So I tore it down, cleaned everything and put it back together. Still hits like my 101y/o grandma. As a final test I had both of us hit it using her mod, then swapped the atty to an admiral (ijoy 5 leg 20700) and it hit proper hard. I decided to come ask for help only after trying it again, only this time I swapped the battery too.

I made the alien wire, I coiled the wire and built the deck myself. I used the mod yesterday (maybe even early today) and this wasn't a problem.

What am I missing here guys? I can't hand it back to her without fixing it. She's far too attractive and I'm not nearly rich enough to go pulling something stupid like that.

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Fudgey Finger

Silver Contributor
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
If every thread is snug and the 510 pin and switch are making good contact then my guess would be that the mod needs to be cleaned. Anywhere the mod comes apart the threads should be clean. If the threads are dirty it can limit the conductivity and cause poor performance.

If cleaning it doesn't work then it seems like the only other thing would be that either the 510 or the switch isn't making propper contact. Try cleaning the contact on the switch with a pencil eraser and some contact cleaner.
 

strigamort

Bronze Contributor
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
I cleaned the contacts with an eraser before posting, but I don't recall taking a special effort where the threads are concerned. I'll report back, and thank you bud. :)

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strigamort

Bronze Contributor
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
Well I'm at a loss. Cleaned everything well, including all threads, put it back together and the vape sucks. We transferred the battery and Dead Rabbit to an Admiral and it hit hard. Now I don't necessarily expect the little Envii tube to perform as well as the Admiral, but the difference is noticeable. My gf said that she could feel the vapor in her lungs when using the Admiral, and that the Heretic was more like breathing air. I would agree, the vapor is less dense, cooler and just a tad bit less flavorful. I would probably chalk it up to the Heretic not being as efficient, but I know that it was hitting harder not long ago and Malia noticed the change without vaping anything else.

What would you guys do at this point? I'm tempted to just give her an Admiral, but I hate to give up like that. Not my style, but I can't think of anything else to do.

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Fudgey Finger

Silver Contributor
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
Since you're asking what to do I wouldn't give her anything. You've already given her one mod and if she isn't satisfied with it she can buy her own. Buying things for women in an attempt to hold/win their affection will usually make them respect you less. They see men who shower them with resources as weak and compensating. Before you know it you will be paying for everything and she will be banging your landscaper.
 

strigamort

Bronze Contributor
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
Hahahaha... I tried to be offended, I really did.

Relationship advice aside (even if it is sage advice, I really was more interested in technical instruction) I noticed the issue as much as she did.

Seems like we've covered every likely possibility. I guess I'll just put the thing down for now and hope that something will occur to me.

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strigamort

Bronze Contributor
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
Gah I'm almost ready to throw this in the trash. I took it apart again tonight, cleaned it up and rebuilt the Goon v1.5. I put two alien coils (3x28g/36G, 3mm ID, three wraps (yup 3). I'll just call the resistance "super sub-ohm". I started with 5 wraps and I don't recall exactly what the starting resistance was, but somewhere around 0.14

Running at a fairly low resistance, it's still not hitting well. With the Goon on my Admiral it ramps nearly instantly. On the Heretic it's ramping about as slowly as it was with 5 wraps. Almost like there's a bottle neck somehow.

I'm tempted to look for a hybrid cap for this mod. Stock is floating pin and it never seemed shitty before, but they do sell a hybrid cap for a reason (hopefully it's not a cash grab reason).

Any final thoughts or suggestions before I lose it entirely? :)

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strigamort

Bronze Contributor
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
Well holy shit. I just figured it out, although I could benefit from knowing exactly what just happened...

My gf puts her battery in so that the positive end is on the same end where the venting is. Duh, right? So it never occurred to me to flip the battery. Well I fired the coils just after posting and it wasn't even popping the juice. Nothing more than a light sizzle. So I flipped the battery knowing that I've tried absolutely everything else that I can think of. Hit the fire button and all the violence I was missing suddenly appeared. It's back to hitting as you'd expect for a low resistance build.

Anyone have any idea why it's hitting correctly now? Why would they design and manufacture a mod that doesn't work right when the battery orientation is correct, but works properly when installed incorrectly? I'm still at a loss, but at least now it's a good vape.

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Fudgey Finger

Silver Contributor
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
So did you get good results with the positive up or the positive end of the battery down?
 

strigamort

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Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
The venting is at the top. It's firing well with the positive down. Maybe I can shoot a quick video. I'll see if I can.

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Fudgey Finger

Silver Contributor
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
It's a common thing for people to have better results with the positive end of the battery down. I believe this is a sign of either uneven or dirty contacts or arc marks. Unless you have an insulator tube inside your mod it can be incredibly dangerous to have the positive side down. I assume you already know why.

I got a 26650 tube on the trading post here a few months ago that had the vent holes in the switch and no vent holes on the top of the mod and was meant to be used negative side up. I am not willing to take that risk so I drilled vent holes in the mod around the atomizer end so that I could use it positive side up.
 

strigamort

Bronze Contributor
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
It's a common thing for people to have better results with the positive end of the battery down. I believe this is a sign of either uneven or dirty contacts or arc marks. Unless you have an insulator tube inside your mod it can be incredibly dangerous to have the positive side down. I assume you already know why. .

The contacts seem to be fine. I think the contacts are rhodium plated which should make them pretty much maintenance free, right? There's no sign of arcing. No burns of any kind or marking/marring on the contacts.

I realize that positive down means a potential hard short should the wrap have damage. I keep our wraps in good shape and replace them when necessary. Still, it's a good reminder to take every precaution. When we talked this over I realized that I hadn't thoroughly explained how the atomizer/510 worked. It was clear that battery wraps must be flawless, but the why wasn't fully explained. It may make some want to hurl, but my gf and I have had a lot of quality time just talking about this stuff, reading posts (yes, I read her your replies) and building our kits together. Kind of a quirky hobby I guess, but the rest of the time we spend in the garden so it's balanced enough. :)

So our plan is to continue to use the mod positive down, now with safety issues more clearly stated. I sure would like to know exactly why the mod won't fire correctly positive up. No one here has one of these mods? Aside from this issue (which is, admittedly, a large issue) the mod is pretty nice. If it were firing correctly I'd have no problem with recommending it.


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Fudgey Finger

Silver Contributor
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
I am not sure if rhodium plated mean maintenance free. Every contact I have, whether they are copper, silver or anything I use contact cleaner on them. This is a really good habit for any mechanical mod. There can be a thin layer of oxidization on them that is invisible to the naked eye. Other than that the only other thing that could explain this would be the switch not making good contact, but it sounds like it is from what you are saying. Oh and it's also helpful to use contact cleaner on all of the threads. Not that I think dirty contacts/threads are the problem any more.

I am a little unclear from your last post if you understand what it is that can happen with the positive end down. So at risk of explaining something you already know I will explain it. With the positive end up, the electrical circuit is broken only at the switch. As I am sure you know the positive pin is connected to the battery, the flow of current goes up through the pin and through the coils, then out through the body of the atomizer and through the body of the mod, then into the switch, making contact with the negative end of the cell. If you have a tear in your battery wrap, with positive side up, when the current goes through the body of the mod it won't make it to the switch. It instead flows into the part of the cell that has a tear, because the whole outside case of the cell is negative. So with positive side up and a tear in the cell, the mod will autofire.

If we then flip the cell around and have the negative end up, and we have a tear in the battery, the mod will not autofire. This is because the positive end of the cell is broken from the circuit. When you push the fire button with a tear in the wrap, the current flows from the positive end at the switch, starts to travel up the mod towards the atomizer, but instead of making it there it just goes straight to the tear in the cell. With a hard short like that the battery can vent or go into thermal runaway in an instant. The fact that the vent holes are on the top of your mod make this even more dangerous. If the cell tries to vent and the battery swells just a little, you now have a pipe-bomb.

I am not one to be overly cautious, but using a tube mod with positive down is a risk I am not willing to take. It only takes a tiny little tear that might be very hard to notice. Just a little nic is all it takes.

If you do continue to use your mod with the positive down, just make sure that any time the mod misfires you stop and let the mod rest for a few minutes. I would even go as far as to take the mod apart and inspect for any problems and to make sure the battery isn't getting warm. I for one have noticed that so many of the mod explosion videos I have seen are when people have a misfire, then try to hit it again and the mod explodes.

I apologize if you already knew all of that.
 

strigamort

Bronze Contributor
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
First, let me applaud your diplomacy. Maybe I'm alone in this, but I happen to have learned everything I know, and so I'd never be bothered by an attempt to teach. ;) I appreciate the non-condescending approach.

I did understand, however, the way you describe what happens in the event of venting or TR is well thought out. I'll have Malia read it too.

Thanks for your help bud.

Edit- I need time to think about this, but I'm definitely questioning the decision to go positive down. I'm just picturing a problem actually happening and I would be comfortable enough if it were solely my responsibility, but I'm rethinking encouraging the practice to someone I care about. She really loves the Heretic, but I don't know that it's worth the risk...

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strigamort

Bronze Contributor
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
Heartbroken, but not for long!

She went ahead and ordered herself a Vaperz Cloud NATO.

:)

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