So I see a lot of studies and such that suggest nicotine alone isn't addictive, or at least no where near what the government would have you believe. Now it's common knowledge at this point that there are other addictive compounds inside of cigarettes, but many suggest that nicotine isn't one of them in reality. However if this were to be the case, then how would vaping or any other way to quit smoking such as patches and gum, help quit at all? Also if a lot of the reason smoking is so addictive is because of the other addictive chemicals, then the same question is still true. As eliquid and things such as patches dont contain those compounds.
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How does vaping help quit smoking if nicotine isn't addictive.
- Thread starter DerpMeetsTF2
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I'm no scientist or doctor but there's many aspects to a habit. They often talk about smoking in terms of nicotine addiction but it's more than that. It's the habit surrounding it, reaching for a pack, lighting up at key times of the day (waking, going to bed, after dinner), it's tapping a pack. All those things combined make up the 'habit'. Ever try to get someone to stop popping their knuckles, chewing on a pen or chewing their fingernails? Nothing to do with nicotine or addictive substances, it's about kicking a habit. Smoking combines both addictive substances and habits.
Many people still struggle when quitting with patches or gum because it only addresses a small portion, the nicotine. It doesn't satisfy the surrounding actions people are used to. Vaping provides the nicotine as well as the inhale, exhale etc. Gives people something to hold instead of a cig, a pack of smokes.
It's true that nicotine isn't the only addictive chemical in cigs. There are also chemicals added to enhance the nicotine found in cigs, sort of 'supercharging' it. Things that help it enter the bloodstream faster, allow what portion of nicotine is in a cig to be more potent. Nicotine is addictive, just isn't the only factor when it comes to a cigarette dependency. Vaping provides some nicotine though in a form that's not absorbed as fast. You still get something from it so it's not the same as quitting cold. Some people reduce their nic to 0 over time and wean themselves off gradually then quit altogether, others keep vaping. Even if they keep vaping it contains magnitudes less harmful substances than smoking.
For me personally vaping allows me to inhale, get a satisfying lung hit that replicates smoking, exhale and essentially 'smoke' without the other crap in it. It's replaced cigs for me, allowed me to focus on new/different habits that take the place of the things I used to do when smoking. It is less addictive though, I don't jones for a vape like I used to with a cig. So it has in fact allowed me to quit smoking without going cold turkey (which I did once, wasn't fun and thankfully I had a lot of physical outlets for the stress).
Many people still struggle when quitting with patches or gum because it only addresses a small portion, the nicotine. It doesn't satisfy the surrounding actions people are used to. Vaping provides the nicotine as well as the inhale, exhale etc. Gives people something to hold instead of a cig, a pack of smokes.
It's true that nicotine isn't the only addictive chemical in cigs. There are also chemicals added to enhance the nicotine found in cigs, sort of 'supercharging' it. Things that help it enter the bloodstream faster, allow what portion of nicotine is in a cig to be more potent. Nicotine is addictive, just isn't the only factor when it comes to a cigarette dependency. Vaping provides some nicotine though in a form that's not absorbed as fast. You still get something from it so it's not the same as quitting cold. Some people reduce their nic to 0 over time and wean themselves off gradually then quit altogether, others keep vaping. Even if they keep vaping it contains magnitudes less harmful substances than smoking.
For me personally vaping allows me to inhale, get a satisfying lung hit that replicates smoking, exhale and essentially 'smoke' without the other crap in it. It's replaced cigs for me, allowed me to focus on new/different habits that take the place of the things I used to do when smoking. It is less addictive though, I don't jones for a vape like I used to with a cig. So it has in fact allowed me to quit smoking without going cold turkey (which I did once, wasn't fun and thankfully I had a lot of physical outlets for the stress).
Because much of the smoking addiction .. is learned. . And more of a habitual act....
Fact Is I don't vape to not be addicted. .. JUST TO REDUCE DAMAGING affects of SMOKING. inhaling BURNED substances causes cancer. no BURNING IN VAPOR.
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Fact Is I don't vape to not be addicted. .. JUST TO REDUCE DAMAGING affects of SMOKING. inhaling BURNED substances causes cancer. no BURNING IN VAPOR.
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Great post!
Switching to vaping from smoking is harm reduction not harm elimination.
And unless you have bad circulatory problems or somesuch then nicotine is not all that bad for ya.
And nicotine is NOT known to contribute to cancer risk unlike all the crap in smoke.
It is also easier to reduce your nicotine intake with vaping than smoking.
And unless you have bad circulatory problems or somesuch then nicotine is not all that bad for ya.
And nicotine is NOT known to contribute to cancer risk unlike all the crap in smoke.
It is also easier to reduce your nicotine intake with vaping than smoking.
I completely quit smoking the day I started vaping. It was an easy switch, in spite of an 18 year smoking habit. My first vape was the Subvod-C, a vaporizer that had no flavor and not much vapor production, but I immediately took to it anyway and that was that. No more smoking ever again!
Whoever first came up with the idea of a vaporizer, thank you!!
Whoever first came up with the idea of a vaporizer, thank you!!
Vaping lets you use your smoking motion habits unlike patches, drugs, etc.
Quit a 40+ yr smoking habit within 1 week using cigalikes over 3.5 years ago.
Down to 1.5 mg/ml nic.
Did not even plan on quitting, wife sneaked and bought me an over priced cigalike kit. So I figured I would try it and to my surprise it worked!
Prior to that I knew virtually nothing about ecigs/vaping.
btw I am an old Phart too
I now use Squonkers and RTA's at 16-30 watts.
Will likely be in this style of vaping for quite a while.
Quit a 40+ yr smoking habit within 1 week using cigalikes over 3.5 years ago.
Down to 1.5 mg/ml nic.
Did not even plan on quitting, wife sneaked and bought me an over priced cigalike kit. So I figured I would try it and to my surprise it worked!
Prior to that I knew virtually nothing about ecigs/vaping.
btw I am an old Phart too
I now use Squonkers and RTA's at 16-30 watts.
Will likely be in this style of vaping for quite a while.
Congrats on quitting! I’m still at 6mg but I’m not bothered. Whatever it takes to stay away from cigs.
I found I sleep better with the lower nic levels.Congrats on quitting! I’m still at 6mg but I’m not bothered. Whatever it takes to stay away from cigs.
I do keep a bottle of 6 mg mixed and on hand for any stressful situations requireing it.
Have not touched it in about a year though.
I have also been 100% DIY for over 3 years.
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Other ways DON'T work for more than maybe 6% of those who try them. Vaping works because of behavioral mimicry. Trying to change a behavioral habit is FAR harder than a simple chemical dependency.
And some of us do require something beyond nicotine, WTA, to wean us off those other addictive substances -- MAOIs -- in cigarette smoke. But not everyone is equally addicted to those substances, and perhaps those people COULD have succeeded with patches or sprays to supply the nicotine, or maybe they have tried them, found them ineffective, but find the behavioral mimicry successful where simple chemical replacement is not.
Andria
Nicotine is addictive. It's silly to claim it isn't. Just as caffeine and sugar and sex and..................................well it's a very long list.
Addictive and addicted as words have been used to demonize certain activities for quite some time. So, to counter that demonization some have claimed nicotine is not addictive. Because the word "addictive" is socially a bad connotation.
The only question that matters is not one of addiction but one of harm. Not all addictions are harmful. Not all things that are harmful are addictive.
So, who gives a shit if nicotine is addictive? I don't. It's good stuff and I LIKE it.
Addictive and addicted as words have been used to demonize certain activities for quite some time. So, to counter that demonization some have claimed nicotine is not addictive. Because the word "addictive" is socially a bad connotation.
The only question that matters is not one of addiction but one of harm. Not all addictions are harmful. Not all things that are harmful are addictive.
So, who gives a shit if nicotine is addictive? I don't. It's good stuff and I LIKE it.
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Not addictive. Dependence producing. There is a VERY big difference. Addictive is like... you commit crimes in order to feed your habit; your entire life goes to hell because of your habit; you ruin your health unto death because of your habit. Cigarette smoking does fit that description, along with drinking for some people, and several drugs, both illicit and legal; coffee drinking does not fit that profile at all, nor nicotine when not consumed in toxic smoke. The dependence produced by either is quite variable, depending on the individual, and withdrawal from either can be managed without lethal or even terribly uncomfortable side effects. I'm not entirely sure about sugar. I saw it kill my mom because she absolutely refused to modify her eating habits... yet I have gradually and steadily reduced its usage in my own diet because I like it so much, I never want to have to do completely without it -- if I was truly addicted to it, then I would not have been able to steadily reduce its usage. Could I do without it? Possibly, even probably, but I wouldn't like it very much, and that would mean using artificial sweeteners which are even worse for health than a moderate amount of sugar.
Andria
I'm afraid there is very little to no difference. That's what dictionaries are for. Note that "dependent" is a synonym for "addicted". I marked them in blue.
ad·dict·ed
/əˈdiktəd/
adjective
adjective: addicted
physically and mentally dependent on a particular substance, and unable to stop taking it without incurring adverse effects.
"she became addicted to alcohol and diet pills"
synonyms: dependent on; More
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english-thesaurus/addicted
Synonyms of 'addicted'
Explore 'addicted' in the dictionary
adjective
1
dependent on a narcotic drug
After a while I was no longer addicted to nicotine.hooked
(informal)
She spent a number of years hooked on amphetamine.
dependent
Words have meaning. Addicted means dependent.
The rest of your post is the connotation I was talking about.
con·no·ta·tion
/ˌkänəˈtāSH(ə)n/
noun
noun: connotation; plural noun: connotations
an idea or feeling that a word invokes in addition to its literal or primary meaning.
There is nothing in the definition of "addicted" or "addictive" that mentions crimes or other negative connotations that you feel. The word is the word. Adding other crap to the word is connotation.
Nicotine is addictive. Even if you think it's a dirty word by adding other meaning to it that does not exist except through connotation.
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Just because it says that in the dictionary in no way implies that those writing those definitions in the dictionary know what they are talking about, and "addiction" is one of the most misunderstood, completely NOT understood problems facing humanity. You can depend on the dictionary definition if it makes you happy, if you are satisfied with the understanding of those completely ignorant; I am not happy with that definition at all, because I have faced and successfully fought both addictions and dependencies, and thus know a bit more about it than the average speaker of English or writer of dictionaries. But I have been happy to apply my own understanding in most cases where I know for a fact that my understanding is superior to that of "most people." Different drum, and all that -- I've fought those addictions and dependencies and lived to tell about it.
Andria
Andria
Nicotine is not as addictive as they say considering I am sure pretty sure many can provide links to the FDA's differing opinions on it. All I know is I can go without Vaping for much longer than I ever could with cigarettes. Just my personal opinion.........
Maybe that's why people now-a-days don't know what each other are talking about or trying to convey through speech. Everybody has their own idea of what words mean.
That's kind of the purpose of the dictionary. So everybody can understand each other when using a specific language.
Since I can't live your life or have your experiences it helps me to understand you(anyone) better if we have a common understanding of words. I don't think I can keep up with 7 billion people's very own separate dictionaries. I wish I could.
The things you describe as "addiction" I describe as "harmful". I make that distinction because addiction is not always harmful. I don't suppose I need to add the dictionary definition of harmful.
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I quite a little over 9 months ago using various vaping products . I've found myself forgetting my vape a few times after leaving the house and didn't bother to go back if I'd be home within an hour or so. I could NEVER do that with my cigarettes. So, I'd say it's much less addictive.
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Nicotine is addictive, its just not addictive like cigarettes are because it is absent the MAO inhibitors and all of the other nasty shit put in cigarettes. Kicking cigarettes is like kicking d*pe.
I am addicted to nicotine. The fact that I won't leave the house without it tells me this. I doubt that I'll attempt to wean myself off of it, I would be too afraid I'd go back to smoking. I'm content with being grateful that I no longer smoke.
Nicotine without tobacco is not addictive. Period.
http://thr4life.org/index.php/2017/05/23/nicotine-not-addictive
Yep Nicotine is addictive that is why people smoked in the first place it started long long long ago
Per my google search results nicotine is addictive.
I think the above link may be a bit biased.
I think the above link may be a bit biased.
If you are referring to the link I posted, then no, it isn't biased. All your google search results are biased simply because the addictiveness of nicotine is a multi-billion dollar lie, as there's no data to support that nicotine without tobacco is addictive... just no data whatsoever.
The thread is a pro vaping site. Yep they have a dog in the fight.
Ahh so we are talking about the definition of addictive then?
Or someones take on it. I am not even sure the guy is a doctor...
At least I am not addicted to energy drinks or sex... Ohh umm wait ....
Or someones take on it. I am not even sure the guy is a doctor...
At least I am not addicted to energy drinks or sex... Ohh umm wait ....
It's not just about the definition of addictive... all of the "data" suggesting nicotine is addictive has one common major classical flaw: confusing nicotine consumption with smoking tobacco. Nicotine by itself is not addictive, but instead, it enables and reinforces addictiveness of other drugs in a non-linear fashion, non-linear here meaning the magnitude of this reinforcement effect is determined by an inverse U-shape as a function of the nicotine dose, whereas addictive substances if the dose goes up further, the addictiveness goes up further also because that linear-type relationship in fact is a key fundamental part of the definition in question.
OK I have had both friends and family addicted to He*oin and other hard core substances, a few have died from it. It's a fucking insult when I hear spewed that nicotine is just as or more addicting. Nicotine is on par with caffeine addiction. Fuck sugar or fast food is much more addictive than nicotine.
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Couldn't have said it better...indeed, Rossco...!
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I don't know dude, I am going to respectfully disagree. I put nicotine in the same category as caffeine as it is certainly habit forming which falls squarely under the definition of addiction.
Speaking from my own experience, I wake up in the middle of the night to vape to get nicotine. Just like when I smoked, I have adverse affects if I cant vape which are signs of a dependency. While nowhere near as addictive as cigarettes with all the extra nasty business, it is still addictive.
While I haven't really tried to go 0 nic, I would assume the fallout would be similar to shaking caffeine maybe a week of headaches and a shitty attitude while the system cleans itself. I could be wrong and way wrong at that. When I have tried to go down to 1.5 I just couldnt vape enough and had to bump it back up. I am finding that 3mg is causing me to vape too much and I might be having to bump back up to 6mg.
Yep nicotine is closer to caffeine addiction or power drink addiction.
Nicotine addiction is far less damagaing than Cellular/internet addiction.
Cellular distracted driving kills.
Cellular distracted driving kills.
Parkinson's runs in my family, my Grandfather died with it. So I'm more than happy to be a regular user of Nicotine.
"Accumulating evidence suggests that nicotine, a drug that stimulates nicotinic acetylcholine receptors, may be of therapeutic value in Parkinson’s disease. Beneficial effects may be several-fold"
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4430096/
"Accumulating evidence suggests that nicotine, a drug that stimulates nicotinic acetylcholine receptors, may be of therapeutic value in Parkinson’s disease. Beneficial effects may be several-fold"
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4430096/
Nicotine only becomes addictive under a very specific and very limited set of circumstances that involves a cocktail of other drugs intentionally designed for making that happen, such as a traditional combustible tobacco cigarette. Ex-smokers still have occasional cravings that can potentially cause them to relapse even after 10 years of being entirely smoke-free so you have no reliable evidence to conclude that the signs of a dependency you are experiencing are due to the nicotine that you vape or are due simply to you being an ex-smoker, and that is despite your symptoms fade after you vape nicotine... eating healthy broccoli and carrots is a habit too, BTW, but that doesn't also mean people who never consumed nicotine before can get addicted to nicotine patches. They can't.
Nicotine and caffeine ARE more addictive than many drugs.....
That has no bearing on potential damage cause by other substances....
Addictive does not equal harmful.
Just because some adictions are worse.... doesn't mean they are more or less adictive. Just more hazardous.
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From the above link.
So the better the nicotine delivery system (juul) the the greater the addiction potential?
This tells me that they consider nicotine to be addictive.
4. Nicotine
4.1 Key findings
The addictiveness of nicotine depends on the delivery system.
It is possible that the addictiveness of tobacco cigarettes may be enhanced by compounds in the smoke other than nicotine.
As e-cigarettes have evolved, their nicotine delivery has improved. This could mean that their addiction potential has increased, but this may also make them more attractive to smokers as a replacement for smoking. It is not yet clear how addictive e-cigarettes are, or could be, relative to tobacco cigarettes.
So the better the nicotine delivery system (juul) the the greater the addiction potential?
This tells me that they consider nicotine to be addictive.
4. Nicotine
4.1 Key findings
The addictiveness of nicotine depends on the delivery system.
It is possible that the addictiveness of tobacco cigarettes may be enhanced by compounds in the smoke other than nicotine.
As e-cigarettes have evolved, their nicotine delivery has improved. This could mean that their addiction potential has increased, but this may also make them more attractive to smokers as a replacement for smoking. It is not yet clear how addictive e-cigarettes are, or could be, relative to tobacco cigarettes.
Seeing the effects first hand I say bullshit
Nicotine is no more addictive than Caffeine, Sugar and a multitude of other things.
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Actually, at 3mg, I think you'd probably find the "detox" from nicotine much less troublesome than that from caffeine, though, yes, kinda similar. Headache, but maybe not the "torture band from hell" type headache; the attitude would probably be optional -- if you THINK you'd have a bad attitude about it, then you probably would.
If there was some really good reason for the lack of nicotine -- such as, so sick with flu you can barely breathe nevermind vape -- then probably not; you'd probably find yourself very pleased to know that you *could* discontinue vaping with so little "withdrawal" when it's really necessary. I certainly did, and though I had been vaping at 3mg for about 2 yrs at that point, I'm still one that absolutely will not leave the house without my vape -- if i forget it, I go back to get it, and I mostly won't go places where I can't vape, if I have any choice about it -- obviously I do have to buy groceries, but that's only a short abstention; however I don't have to go out to eat, and since I can't vape if I do, I mostly don't.Andria
No, it tells you that the adictiveness of nicotine varies in between highly addictive and not addictive, depending on the delivery system and on whether that delivery system is using other chemicals (additives) the purpose of which may be to boost the addictiveness that results from the kind of delivery system that causes nicotine to FORCIBLY BECOME addictive. If nicotine WITHOUT TOBACCO is addictive, then where's the data to back that up?
Agreed.Actually, at 3mg, I think you'd probably find the "detox" from nicotine much less troublesome than that from caffeine, though, yes, kinda similar. Headache, but maybe not the "torture band from hell" type headache; the attitude would probably be optional -- if you THINK you'd have a bad attitude about it, then you probably would.
Andria
I took a trip around the country by train and only vaped on the smoke stops. Hell a number of times I didn't feel like getting off the train. The detox would be just like getting off of coffee which I did some years back, now I only occasionally drink it but not like the mass quantities that I used to. The effects are grumpy, headache and feeling a bit lethargic for a couple of weeks. Comparing this to hard core drugs is fucking ludicrous
levels of addiction varies by consumption level of sadi addictive agent.
I took opiates for pain for over 12 years. But only as needed for pain. It also depends on the person their genetics and mental attitudes.
Damn knee jerk politicians basically made it impossible for me to get opiates for pain control so I was cut off cold turkey.
I had zero withdrawl symptoms just more pain and I now destroy my liver with 1 gram or more of naprozen per day.
I did not take opiates for the good feelings I took it as needed.
And yes lower levels of nicotine provide lower levels of addiction.
For instance a person vaping 3 mg has a lower addiction level that one who vapes 50 mg. And those who vape the lower levels of nic can go longer periods without their nic fix.
Sugar withdrawals
"A splitting sugar headache, fatigue, cramps and nausea are just a few of the debilitating symptoms that can occur when you decide to finally nix sugar from your diet."
https://draxe.com/sugar-withdrawal/
Now put that on the same level as hardcore drugs eh?
Ludicrous
"A splitting sugar headache, fatigue, cramps and nausea are just a few of the debilitating symptoms that can occur when you decide to finally nix sugar from your diet."
https://draxe.com/sugar-withdrawal/
Now put that on the same level as hardcore drugs eh?
Ludicrous
Texting while driving and such is an addiction that kills?
And yes cell phones are addictive. Lose yours and go thru the withdrawl.
And I do not think that ANYONE is comparing nicotine addiction to h*roin addiction.
And as I said addiction depends a lot on genetics and mental makeup.
Alcoholism tends to follow genetic lines as well.
For those of us with the bitter gene alcoholism is almost impossible as it tastes horrible.
For those who do not have the bitter gene apparently it does not taste bad...
And yes cell phones are addictive. Lose yours and go thru the withdrawl.
And I do not think that ANYONE is comparing nicotine addiction to h*roin addiction.
And as I said addiction depends a lot on genetics and mental makeup.
Alcoholism tends to follow genetic lines as well.
For those of us with the bitter gene alcoholism is almost impossible as it tastes horrible.
For those who do not have the bitter gene apparently it does not taste bad...
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I've just recently cut wayyyyyyyyy back on my own caffeine consumption, because I noticed it had crept up alarmingly (since I discovered the itty bitty pepsis with real sugar not HFCS!); being a veteran of caffeine detox, I know better than to eliminate it totally, all at once, so I've cut down to just one cup of caffeinated tea in the morning rather than 3 or 4, and 1 or 2 of those bitty Pepsis a week, rather than a couple each day -- and I *still* got a headache for a while, though it wasn't severe at all; a couple ibuprofen would easily take care of it.
When I completely abstained from vaping for nearly 2 full weeks during the flu, I had zero physical issues, and didn't miss it at all. Once I started feeling better and could breathe a bit better, I did miss it, so I started back -- very carefully! Taking only tiny "sips" of vapor and trying very hard not to inhale at all (which is harder for me that it might be for some, since I've never been able to break the shallow-inhalation habit left from smoking). So even after I did return to vaping, I still wasn't getting a real lot of the 3mg nicotine in my vape -- and still didn't miss it. Compared to cigarette withdrawal, or even systematic withdrawal from WTA, nicotine lowering and/or cessation is like falling off a log.
Andria
I vape at 3mg right now. But when I was still smoking cigarettes I couldn't function normally for an hour without smoking another cigarette... waiting much longer than an hour made me crave so hard it felt like going through hell on every occasion, whereas right now I can go without vaping for hours on end and still not feel more than just a little bit uncomfortable, and that is despite from time to time I can use up juice like a firetruck can use up water.Actually, at 3mg, I think you'd probably find the "detox" from nicotine much less troublesome than that from caffeine, though, yes, kinda similar. Headache, but maybe not the "torture band from hell" type headache; the attitude would probably be optional -- if you THINK you'd have a bad attitude about it, then you probably would.
Andria
Are cows addicted to grasses?
No more
Apples and oranges there.
No more than humans and most life forms are 'addicted' to oxygen.
Apples and oranges there.