How long do you see yourself vaping?

[MrScaryZ]

Yes, that other stuff is a great deal more addictive -- weaning off WTA took 15 months, and was very difficult, every step of the way. Decreasing nicotine has been NOTHING like that.

It's also quite humorous to suggest that a person who's been in recovery from alcoholism for nearly 25 yrs, and in recovery from hard-drug addiction for 29 yrs, doesn't know what addiction or denial is. Very amusing indeed.

Andria

you friend your brain after all that addiction how could we ever believe anything you said

 

[AndriaD]

you friend your brain after all that addiction how could we ever believe anything you said

Because "recovery." Maybe you should look that up.

Andria

 

[MrScaryZ]

Because "recovery." Maybe you should look that up.

Andria

brain cells do not recover

 

[JuicyLucy]

you friend your brain after all that addiction how could we ever believe anything you said

Andria is one of the straightest shooters on VU

And she was instrumental in helping me quit smoking and she has always been spot on, unlike others on this site

The evidence she sites about nicotine and addiction is spot on

 

[MrScaryZ]

Andria is one of the straightest shooters on VU

And she was instrumental in helping me quit smoking and she has always been spot on, unlike others on this site

The evidence she sites about nicotine and addiction is spot on

another one that is in denial they come in droves

 

[AndriaD]

another one that is in denial they come in droves

I've come to the conclusion that you are one of the most ignorant and negative individuals present on VU, and as such, qualify for my ignore list. So you can make whatever ignorant and negative cracks you like, I will no longer see them. If you don't wish to see what I post, I urge you to do the same.

Andria

 

[skeene]

I've been vaping 3 yrs, just recently thought about reducing my nic from 3 mg to 2, and take it from there. don't know if I'll ever quit vaping but i'd like to eventually.

 

[MrScaryZ]

I've come to the conclusion that you are one of the most ignorant and negative individuals present on VU, and as such, qualify for my ignore list. So you can make whatever ignorant and negative cracks you like, I will no longer see them. If you don't wish to see what I post, I urge you to do the same.

Andria

haha ok this is not the first time I have seen you running around tying to tell everyone that Nicotine is not addictive I usually just keep my mouth shut but the repeated speak with no scientific backing is alarming the Burden of proof is not on me if you even understand that.

 

[Vucci]

This was published by New England Journal of Medicine. June 17, 2010.

- Summary of Nicotine Addiction and Conclusion -

Nicotine sustains tobacco addiction, a major cause of disability and premature death, by acting on nicotinic cholinergic receptors in the brain to trigger the release of dopamine and other neurotransmitters. Release of dopamine, glutamate, and GABA is particularly important in the development of nicotine dependence, and CRF may play a key role in withdrawal. Neuroadaptation and tolerance involve changes in nicotinic receptors and neural plasticity. Nicotine addiction occurs when smokers come to rely on smoking to modulate mood and arousal, relieve withdrawal symptoms, or both. Light or occasional smokers smoke mainly for positive reinforcement in specific situations. Genetic studies indicate that nicotinic receptor subtypes and the genes involved in neuroplasticity and learning play a part in the development of dependence. People with psychiatric or substance-abuse disorders, who account for a large proportion of current smokers, have an increased susceptibility to tobacco addiction. Nicotine is metabolized primarily by the enzyme CYP2A6, and variation in the rate of nicotine metabolism contributes to differences in vulnerability to tobacco dependence and the response to smoking-cessation treatment. An increased understanding of the mechanisms of nicotine addiction has led to the development of novel medications (e.g., varenicline) that act on specific nicotinic receptor subtypes. The development of other drugs that act on nicotinic receptors and other mediators of nicotine addiction is likely to further enhance the effectiveness of smoking-cessation pharmacotherapy.

Neal L. Benowitz MD:

Division of Clinical Pharmacology and Experimental Therapeutics, Medical Service, San Francisco General Hospital Medical Center; and the Departments of Medicine, Bioengineering and Therapeutic Sciences, University of California, San Francisco — both in San Francisco.

Vucci : There are a lot of propagandas and myths about Nicotine and I'm not confident enough to take a stance but I feel this report was one of the more accurate and factual examination on this topic. Feel free to look up the entire article for complete analysis on the subject. I separate writings so not to mix my opinions with scholarly reviews.

 

[AndriaD]

There is a VAST difference between tobacco addiction, and nicotine "addiction" -- and addiction and dependence do not mean the same thing, they are not synonyms.

Many, many people are dependent on caffeine; very few of them could be said to be addicted to caffeine -- they consume it in ever increasing doses, to the exclusion of other food and drink, their addiction is so profound that they are unable to function effectively in a job or family, etc -- yet those who are dependent on it to get themselves properly awake in the morning may call themselves "addicted" to it -- because they do not understand the true meaning of addiction.

If nicotine is truly addictive, then it is the first addictive substance I have ever heard of which causes DECREASING tolerance -- yet that is reported over and over and over on vapers' forums; people who formerly were truly addicted to cigarettes, now, using nicotine alone, find that they need to decrease their dosage, or they deal with increasingly bad side effects of the nicotine. That is simply NOT how "addictive" drugs work, not at all.

Andria

 

[Vucci]

There is a VAST difference between tobacco addiction, and nicotine "addiction" -- and addiction and dependence do not mean the same thing, they are not synonyms.

Many, many people are dependent on caffeine; very few of them could be said to be addicted to caffeine -- they consume it in ever increasing doses, to the exclusion of other food and drink, their addiction is so profound that they are unable to function effectively in a job or family, etc -- yet those who are dependent on it to get themselves properly awake in the morning may call themselves "addicted" to it -- because they do not understand the true meaning of addiction.

If nicotine is truly addictive, then it is the first addictive substance I have ever heard of which causes DECREASING tolerance -- yet that is reported over and over and over on vapers' forums; people who formerly were truly addicted to cigarettes, now, using nicotine alone, find that they need to decrease their dosage, or they deal with increasingly bad side effects of the nicotine. That is simply NOT how "addictive" drugs work, not at all.

Andria

I hear you Andria. I've been reading your posts. My article was just to point out that tobacco/nicotine was still linked in the studies. While you were elaborating on the subject of Nicotine alone.

And for some reason I can't find a credible enough sources on Nicotine alone research. Just pure nicotine, very strange.

I've been thinking about what you say about Nicotine and it does have some reason behind it. I just wish I can research more to either Support and Pillar your claims. Or show you maybe a counter argument for your statement.

Either way it be great knowledge for all of us. Thanks for sharing with me Andria about pure nicotine and your emperical observations.

 

[AndriaD]

I hear you Andria. I've been reading your posts. My article was just to point out that tobacco/nicotine was still linked in the studies. While you were elaborating on the subject of Nicotine alone.

And for some reason I can't find a credible enough sources on Nicotine alone research. Just pure nicotine, very strange.

I've been thinking about what you say about Nicotine and it does have some reason behind it. I just wish I can research more to either Support and Pillar your claims. Or show you maybe a counter argument for your statement.

Either way it be great knowledge for all of us. Thanks for sharing with me Andria about pure nicotine and your emperical observations.

The major problem is that for so long, the only way to get high doses of nicotine was to smoke tobacco -- which has become the absolute favorite whipping boy of anyone with any pretensions to science, no one will even consider any possible positive effects that nicotine or even tobacco itself may offer -- which is nothing but prejudice, due to the danger of smoking tobacco, and the hatred that the smoke nazis have for it, and for anyone who uses it. They have gone on record as saying that nicotine is more addictive than illicit narcotics, and nothing could be further from the truth -- though the addiction to smoking tobacco may in fact be something along those lines, for at least the last of us who persisted in smoking because we could find no way to stop doing so without massive suffering and psychosis -- until vaping came along.

Now, most researchers are so busy trying to stay in the good graces of BP, who pay for so much research, none of them are really interested in The Truth; they're interested in keeping their jobs, and The Truth can go hang.

But check these links, if you want some Truth:

https://rodutobaccotruth.blogspot.com/
http://tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.com/
http://www.clivebates.com/
https://antithrlies.com/
http://velvetgloveironfist.blogspot.com/
http://www.ecigarette-research.com/web/
http://www.ecigarette-politics.com/

That last one is particularly informative regarding the supposed addictiveness of nicotine, and how it's a lie, and why the lie persists. I don't really like the guy who writes that blog, he's one of the control freaks over at ECF that I despise roundly, but I cannot argue with any of his conclusions. I won't discount Truth just because I dislike the person offering it.

Andria

 

[MrScaryZ]

[

The major problem is that for so long, the only way to get high doses of nicotine was to smoke tobacco -- which has become the absolute favorite whipping boy of anyone with any pretensions to science, no one will even consider any possible positive effects that nicotine or even tobacco itself may offer -- which is nothing but prejudice, due to the danger of smoking tobacco, and the hatred that the smoke nazis have for it, and for anyone who uses it. They have gone on record as saying that nicotine is more addictive than illicit narcotics, and nothing could be further from the truth -- though the addiction to smoking tobacco may in fact be something along those lines, for at least the last of us who persisted in smoking because we could find no way to stop doing so without massive suffering and psychosis -- until vaping came along.

Now, most researchers are so busy trying to stay in the good graces of BP, who pay for so much research, none of them are really interested in The Truth; they're interested in keeping their jobs, and The Truth can go hang.

But check these links, if you want some Truth:

https://rodutobaccotruth.blogspot.com/
http://tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.com/
http://www.clivebates.com/
https://antithrlies.com/
http://velvetgloveironfist.blogspot.com/
http://www.ecigarette-research.com/web/
http://www.ecigarette-politics.com/

That last one is particularly informative regarding the supposed addictiveness of nicotine, and how it's a lie, and why the lie persists. I don't really like the guy who writes that blog, he's one of the control freaks over at ECF that I despise roundly, but I cannot argue with any of his conclusions. I won't discount Truth just because I dislike the person offering it.

Andria

None of those links are any type of scientific data or analysis only anti-tobacco movements. To disprove that Nicotine is an addictive substance please provide scientific backing my qualified experts.

 

[Huckleberried]

Honestly I'll be too scared to start partying again

Honey, I hear ya. 13 in Sept. for me. I don't wanna go back to that, either. And I really don't wanna go back to smoking, so I'll keep doing what I'm doing with that, as well.

 

[Rickajho]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2928221/

Looks addictive to me.

 

[AndriaD]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2928221/

Looks addictive to me.

They're talking about TOBACCO ADDICTION.

And remember, this is the same gov't that calls e-cigarettes "tobacco products." You really gonna trust ANYTHING they have to say on the matter???

Andria

 

[Rickajho]

They're talking about TOBACCO ADDICTION.

And remember, this is the same gov't that calls e-cigarettes "tobacco products." You really gonna trust ANYTHING they have to say on the matter???

Andria

If you had read the full article it clearly parses out the specific impact nicotine alone has on brain cell receptors, and goes further to explain the additional interaction/reinforcement of MAOI's found in tobacco smoke. However brain cell receptors do not remain benignly unaffected by nicotine alone.

You may be able to argue degree but one cannot state nicotine alone does not have addictive properties.

 

[AndriaD]

If you had read the full article it clearly parses out the specific impact nicotine alone has on brain cell receptors, and goes further to explain the additional interaction/reinforcement of MAOI's found in tobacco smoke. However brain cell receptors do not remain benignly unaffected by nicotine alone.

You may be able to argue degree but one cannot state nicotine alone does not have addictive properties.

So does caffeine -- mildly, just like nicotine alone. Most folks who consume some caffeine daily would get some degree of headache if they went a full day without it, but that's dependence, not addiction.

Andria

 

[MrScaryZ]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2928221/

Looks addictive to me.

haha yeah when the truth is thrown in the faces those in denial they squirm like fish and then cherry pick information that suits their needs
of course its addictive this is a known their are hundreds of scientific papers on it

 

[redspidermonkee]

not quitting

 

[aquaholic2491]

damn didnt expect this thread to go south. All I wanted to know is where you expect to be vape wise in 5-10 years.

Since the return of spring ive had to fight urges to buy cigarettes. I think its just the warm weather that I use to be so happy about because smoking outside in the cold sucks. I was at a friends house for a bbq and I had that feeling like a cigarette was missing to make it perfect even though i had my mod on hand. Theres a certain romance to cigarettes that i still have. I see people like Keith Richards smoking a cigarette, playing good tunes and it makes me miss the old days.

 

[Rickajho]

damn didnt expect this thread to go south. All I wanted to know is where you expect to be vape wise in 5-10 years.

Since the return of spring ive had to fight urges to buy cigarettes. I think its just the warm weather that I use to be so happy about because smoking outside in the cold sucks. I was at a friends house for a bbq and I had that feeling like a cigarette was missing to make it perfect even though i had my mod on hand. Theres a certain romance to cigarettes that i still have. I see people like Keith Richards smoking a cigarette, playing good tunes and it makes me miss the old days.

Smoking is really insidious. Places like the ALA, ACS, CDC make out like you can just "pick a quit date!" and eat carrot sticks for a couple weeks and it's all over. Don't count on it.

My personal experience? I was still having random cravings for a cigarette pop up even into my fifth year of being quit. They weren't usually associated with anything either. It would be a sudden urge that a smoke would be appealing. Or I might suddenly smell cigarette smoke - even though I was indoors without a smoker in sight. The point is my brain was still playing smoking addiction tricks - I didn't need a trigger like seeing someone smoke on a TV show or being around smokers for a sudden craving to just appear.

The cravings do become less frequent and less strong over time but it took a long time to get there after a 30 year smoking addiction. Early on during the first year they could drive you crazy. Switch up flavors, increase your nic level, chain vape the bejeezers out of that thing - there are things you can do to get through a craving fit.

I really haven't wanted to smoke since a few weeks into staring vaping - and that was a long time ago for me - but you could say cravings for a lot of us have a mind of their own. That's why I'm not even considering if/when I'm going to quit vaping. As long as I'm vaping I'm not smoking and that's the way I want to keep it.

 

[Real Extract in Seattle]

I love tobacco - I just don't want to smoke it anymore. I'll be vaping a longggg time.

 

[AndriaD]

Smoking is really insidious. Places like the ALA, ACS, CDC make out like you can just "pick a quit date!" and eat carrot sticks for a couple weeks and it's all over. Don't count on it.

My personal experience? I was still having random cravings for a cigarette pop up even into my fifth year of being quit. They weren't usually associated with anything either. It would be a sudden urge that a smoke would be appealing. Or I might suddenly smell cigarette smoke - even though I was indoors without a smoker in sight. The point is my brain was still playing smoking addiction tricks - I didn't need a trigger like seeing someone smoke on a TV show or being around smokers for a sudden craving to just appear.

The cravings do become less frequent and less strong over time but it took a long time to get there after a 30 year smoking addiction. Early on during the first year they could drive you crazy. Switch up flavors, increase your nic level, chain vape the bejeezers out of that thing - there are things you can do to get through a craving fit.

I really haven't wanted to smoke since a few weeks into staring vaping - and that was a long time ago for me - but you could say cravings for a lot of us have a mind of their own. That's why I'm not even considering if/when I'm going to quit vaping. As long as I'm vaping I'm not smoking and that's the way I want to keep it.

Totally agree with pretty much all of that; even at 2 3/4 yrs smoke-free, I still have occasional thoughts of smoking. I wouldn't really call them cravings, since vaping makes me forget those thoughts pretty much immediately... but if I didn't have vaping as a replacement, they would certainly become miserable cravings. And I know from my relapse to dual-use after I'd been smoke-free for 4.5 months, they get their hooks back into you WITH ALL SPEED; it's fucking amazing and terrifying how fast it happens. And putting them down again was MUCH!!! harder the 2nd time; the first time, they just kinda fell away with what seemed nearly no effort at all. But that 2nd time.... I had to make a conscious effort of will to put them down and leave them down... and then 10 days later, delighted as hell to be smoke-free again... then the PHYSICAL cravings came back, and I just tnank god I had already acquired some WTA, and that it put paid to those cravings immediately -- but it took 15 months of hard effort to get free of THAT shit!

There's not a single thing romantic about cigarette smoking. It stink like hell and it destroys your health and your looks-- seen what Keith Richards looks like? -- and your life (and your budget!). I've broken drug and alcohol addictions, and they were hard, but smoking...? Damned near impossible to get free of, and if not for vaping, I never would have. If you're fortunate enough to be smoke-free, do yourself a favor and just stay that way -- it's so much easier than trying to get free of smoking AGAIN.

Andria

 

[aquaholic2491]

My grandpa smoked for 60 years before he gave it up. Every Sunday after church we would go out to eat with another family. The wife hated cigarette smoke but we could always get tables in the smoking area instead of waiting for non smoking so we would agree to sit in the smoking section. One day she asked my grandpa when are you going to quit smoking? He sat there looking like he was deep in thought and finally said you know my grandpa lived to be 100. She quickly shot back not from smoking he didnt. He looked at her with a straight face and said," nope, from minding his f**king business". It was everything I could do to hold back my laughter. In the end he had to have skin cancer removed from his lip. Apparently it was very painful and the dr said if he didnt quit smoking he'd have to have it done again. He had a fresh pack waiting for him in the car, threw them out and never smoked again. He made it 6 years before he passed. I sometimes wonder if he should of just kept going. He never wanted to smoke again though. Id sit next to him at the kitchen bar and smoke and he never said a thing about wanting one.

 

[Huckleberried]

Theres a certain romance to cigarettes that i still have. I see people like Keith Richards smoking a cigarette, playing good tunes and it makes me miss the old days.

Tell yourself that smoking will make you look like Keith Richards. That is one worn out lookin' man.

I get where you're coming from, though, and I do understand the word romance. For the first couple years, I was fine, didn't really have that longing, with the glazed eyes at the sight of smokers when I was around them. Over the last year, a lot of stressors popped in. Watching someone taking that long, deep draw off a cigarette... it was hitting me HARD! But, I guaran-damn-tee you, taking that long draw will start tasting horrible, and it will linger. Even brushing and mouthwash doesn't take away the taste of a campfire raging in your mouth, not to mention what you'll smell on your clothes, you'll smell it on your face, and worse, in your hair. I work with a lot of smokers. I wouldn't sit with them while it was cold out, since our smoking area is enclosed. Now, there's a table next to the enclosure, since the weather is shaping up. I'm beginning to get questions about my vaping

Man I can't stand to smell like a cigarette, now.

Lovely, aint he?

 

[AndriaD]

Tell yourself that smoking will make you look like Keith Richards. That is one worn out lookin' man.

Lovely, aint he?

He's starting to remind me of the Crypt Keeper, on that horror TV show... what is it, Tales from the Crypt? *shudder* Why anyone would wanna look like that is quite beyond me. Why anyone would wanna smell like burning fecal matter is quite beyond me, too.

It's true that some folks can smoke all their lives and live to be very old... smoking kills, what, about half of those who do it for many years? So half of them, it doesn't. Trouble is, you have no way of knowing which half you'll be in, beforehand. And it's also true that nobody gets outta here alive... but my daddy died when he was only 66, from lung cancer, after smoking for about 55 yrs. It wasn't pretty; those respirators are horrible things. I'd really FAR prefer a quick death from a heart attack, just drop dead, than weeks of dying by inches in an ICU, pestered by fucking Nurse Ratched.

Andria

 

[jjdell]

How long do i see myself vaping? Dont vape in front of mirrors myself so couldn't say! Did catch my reflection once in the cars window, maybe 5 seconds or so.

 

[aquaholic2491]

He's starting to remind me of the Crypt Keeper, on that horror TV show... what is it, Tales from the Crypt? *shudder* Why anyone would wanna look like that is quite beyond me. Why anyone would wanna smell like burning fecal matter is quite beyond me, too.

Andria

If I stop vaping, I'll go back to smoking. Nothing to do with the nicotine; everything to do with the behavior. When you do something for 39 yrs, it doesn't go away.

Andria

Keith is 73 years old. Are we seriously going to make fun of how he looks? I think 99% of this forum is former cigarette smokers. Now we're going to sit here and say they smell and are ugly?

 

[AndriaD]

Keith is 73 years old. Are we seriously going to make fun of how he looks? I think 99% of this forum is former cigarette smokers. Now we're going to sit here and say they smell and are ugly?

Yes, they stink. Looks are on a case by case basis, but Keith ain't looking great, that's for sure. But the stink is beyond dispute -- burning tobacco smells, and it sticks to those who use it, and the smell of STALE burnt tobacco is one of the worst EVER. They do call it stinkweed, and for a very good reason.

Andria

 

[HondaDavidson]

Keith is 73 years old. Are we seriously going to make fun of how he looks? I think 99% of this forum is former cigarette smokers. Now we're going to sit here and say they smell and are ugly?

But Keith looked like that at 40....... and it wasn't cigarettes that did it ... it was the drugs and alcohol..... cigarette tar IMO is what keeps that man alive....

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

 

[HondaDavidson]

How long do i see myself vaping? Dont vape in front of mirrors myself so couldn't say! Did catch my reflection once in the cars window, maybe 5 seconds or so.

Ah you beat me to the mirror..... my house is full of the things... see myself vaping all the time.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

 

[AndriaD]

But Keith looked like that at 40....... and it wasn't cigarettes that did it ... it was the drugs and alcohol..... cigarette tar IMO is what keeps that man alive....

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

I think it was the whole chemical cocktail that did in Keith's looks (and he was quite good looking as a young man)... but I bet the cigarettes didn't help any.

Cigarette smoking causes the capillaries in the skin to constrict and even die, so that the skin takes on a grayish tinge, or mottled; very unhealthy. It also causes vertical wrinkles in the lips. I smoked for so long, those wrinkles are never going away, but I noticed a rosier look to my skin within 3-6 months after quitting -- and non-smokers no longer find me distasteful to be around, since I no longer smell like a filthy ashtray. In fact, normally people greet me with things like "Mmm, you smell GOOD! Is that.. vanilla?" now, and that NEVER happened when I smoked -- usually they'd back away and fan the air, when I was a smoker.

Andria

 

[HondaDavidson]

I think it was the whole chemical cocktail that did in Keith's looks (and he was quite good looking as a young man)... but I bet the cigarettes didn't help any.

Cigarette smoking causes the capillaries in the skin to constrict and even die, so that the skin takes on a grayish tinge, or mottled; very unhealthy. It also causes vertical wrinkles in the lips. I smoked for so long, those wrinkles are never going away, but I noticed a rosier look to my skin within 3-6 months after quitting -- and non-smokers no longer find me distasteful to be around, since I no longer smell like a filthy ashtray. In fact, normally people greet me with things like "Mmm, you smell GOOD! Is that.. vanilla?" now, and that NEVER happened when I smoked -- usually they'd back away and fan the air, when I was a smoker.

Andria

I agree with you....
just not the Keith Richards example.. I don't think he would look much different had he not smoked. This guy is a freak of nature.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

 

[AndriaD]

I agree with you....
just not the Keith Richards example.. I don't think he would look much different had he not smoked. This guy is a freak of nature.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

Heh, he is, but I think we already knew that just by the way he plays guitar -- he was probably hit by a guitar at birth or something, or met that ol devil at the crossroads like Robert Johnson.

Andria

 

[marco67]

You sure that photo of Keith wasn't PhotoShopped?

That guy has enough MONY to look as pretty as he wants.
You must be in good shape to do a 90 minute set.

I'm only 50 & on the rare occasion i play out, I'm sitting..

 

[AndriaD]

Well, y'know that Ron Wood is a vaper now, so we can only hope that maybe he'll convince Keith to give it a try, so that maybe we'll have a whole lot more years of terrific geezer-rock-n-blues to enjoy. I want those guys playing until they have to do their live shows in rocking chairs.

Andria

 

[inspects]

I'm with Andria on the nicotine NOT being addictive. I smoked for 40+ years, quit the same day I started vaping 2.5 years ago using 24mg juice and decreased the nic ever since.

Now, I can go for hours or an entire day without even thinking about NEEDING to vape. Actually I could go without nicotine completely and toss all the vape stuff in a cabinet.

I was thinking about quiting vaping entirely the other day, because it really doesn't do anything for me any longer and takes up too much of my time screwing around with shit.

Furthermore, I haven't had the slightest desire to have a smoke since I began vaping, now I can't stand the smell of cigarette smoke.

 

[AndriaD]

I'm with Andria on the nicotine NOT being addictive. I smoked for 40+ years, quit the same day I started vaping 2.5 years ago using 24mg juice and decreased the nic ever since.

Now, I can go for hours or an entire day without even thinking about NEEDING to vape. Actually I could go without nicotine completely and toss all the vape stuff in a cabinet.

I was thinking about quiting vaping entirely the other day, because it really doesn't do anything for me any longer and takes up too much of my time screwing around with shit.

Furthermore, I haven't had the slightest desire to have a smoke since I began vaping, now I can't stand the smell of cigarette smoke.

For me, the "addiction" is all behavioral -- anytime I *think* of smoking, I need a vape, which makes me forget all about smoking. I use 3mg nicotine, and vape about 5ml per day, totally tight-draw MtL at 10w or less (usually less), so I'm not getting a hell of a lot of nicotine at all. And recently while I was suffering a HORRIBLE headcold, I think I was vaping maybe 2ml per day, less than half my usual daily amount, and felt no deprivation at all; I was just so miserable that the thought of vaping didn't occur to me too much -- which NEVER happened when I smoked; I'd still smoke a pk or more daily, even with flu or a miserable headcold, because the Cigarette Bully gave me no choice, it badgered me constantly even when I was hacking up a lung every 5 minutes.

If I totally gave up nicotine, I might have a few headaches, maybe feel a bit edgy and/or moody for a week or so -- much the same as giving up caffeine when you're used to daily consumption, but those headaches and slight moodiness dont't even APPROACH what I went thru, just trying to go a single hour without a cigarette. That kind of slight withdrawal symptoms are characteristic of *dependence*, NOT addiction.

Addiction is robbing or stealing to support your habit -- and I used to steal money from my parents' and ex-husband's wallets, to buy cigarettes -- grabbing the cigarettes butts out of public ashtrays, to re-light for the puff or two that might still be available, and hang whatever germs total strangers may have left behind -- turning down jobs because you can't smoke there -- going hungry, so you can afford to buy cigarettes -- and many, many other toxic behaviors. I don't know anyone who would behave in such ways, to get their "coffee fix", nor to continue sticking nicotine patches on themselves, and I SERIOUSLY doubt anyone would behave thus in order to vape nicotine.

Andria

 

[inspects]

For me, the "addiction" is all behavioral -- anytime I *think* of smoking, I need a vape, which makes me forget all about smoking. I use 3mg nicotine, and vape about 5ml per day, totally tight-draw MtL at 10w or less (usually less), so I'm not getting a hell of a lot of nicotine at all. And recently while I was suffering a HORRIBLE headcold, I think I was vaping maybe 2ml per day, less than half my usual daily amount, and felt no deprivation at all; I was just so miserable that the thought of vaping didn't occur to me too much -- which NEVER happened when I smoked; I'd still smoke a pk or more daily, even with flu or a miserable headcold, because the Cigarette Bully gave me no choice, it badgered me constantly even when I was hacking up a lung every 5 minutes.

If I totally gave up nicotine, I might have a few headaches, maybe feel a bit edgy and/or moody for a week or so -- much the same as giving up caffeine when you're used to daily consumption, but those headaches and slight moodiness dont't even APPROACH what I went thru, just trying to go a single hour without a cigarette. That kind of slight withdrawal symptoms are characteristic of *dependence*, NOT addiction.

Addiction is robbing or stealing to support your habit -- and I used to steal money from my parents' and ex-husband's wallets, to buy cigarettes -- grabbing the cigarettes butts out of public ashtrays, to re-light for the puff or two that might still be available, and hang whatever germs total strangers may have left behind -- turning down jobs because you can't smoke there -- going hungry, so you can afford to buy cigarettes -- and many, many other toxic behaviors. I don't know anyone who would behave in such ways, to get their "coffee fix", nor to continue sticking nicotine patches on themselves, and I SERIOUSLY doubt anyone would behave thus in order to vape nicotine.

Andria

I agree, if I was smoking, I'd do whatever it took to get those smokes, even if I had pneumonia. Now, I could really care less about nic.

 

[inspects]

I used to be a heavy coffee drinker, now I can't stand coffee either, but I love good tea, which I never drank before while smoking unless it was ice tea.

 

[inspects]

I agree, if I was smoking, I'd do whatever it took to get those smokes, even if I had pneumonia. Now, I could really care less about nic.

I think this shows me nic was a tiny ingredient in the cigarette recipe which made me keep coming back for more chemicals in those cigs....nic being at the bottom of barrel in that list of chemicals.

 

[AndriaD]

I agree, if I was smoking, I'd do whatever it took to get those smokes, even if I had pneumonia. Now, I could really care less about nic.

For me, I keep using nicotine because a) I still love TH, and even Flash doesn't work too well unless there's at least a LITTLE nicotine in the mix, and b) I'm scared to death of dementia of any kind -- I may live longer, now that I've quit smoking, but with my genetic legacy of both senile dementia and Alzheimers, I need to do whatever I can to try and hang on to all my marbles.

I also have always thought that I've suffered ADD most of my life, once I learned about that because my son suffered it, and I do think that nicotine helps me focus better, when I need to. I started smoking when I was not-quite-14, and if I hadn't, I'm not sure I could have graduated high school -- though I scored nearly 1200 on the SAT.

Andria

 

[aquaholic2491]

I'm with Andria on the nicotine NOT being addictive. I smoked for 40+ years, quit the same day I started vaping 2.5 years ago using 24mg juice and decreased the nic ever since.

Now, I can go for hours or an entire day without even thinking about NEEDING to vape. Actually I could go without nicotine completely and toss all the vape stuff in a cabinet.

So you started out with a high nicotine dose and weened yourself off over the period of 2.5 years. The same process is done with most addictive substances. For nicotine to not be addictive you would of been able to just stop without the need to vape at all. Im happy you reached this, but addiction doesn't have to last forever for it to be deemed addictive. Anything that you put in your body that alters it can be addictive. Your body begins to rely on it. If nicotine was not addictive we could simply start out vaping 0 mgs.

 

[inspects]

So you started out with a high nicotine dose and weened yourself off over the period of 2.5 years. The same process is done with most addictive substances. For nicotine to not be addictive you would of been able to just stop without the need to vape at all. Im happy you reached this, but addiction doesn't have to last forever for it to be deemed addictive. Anything that you put in your body that alters it can be addictive. Your body begins to rely on it. If nicotine was not addictive we could simply start out vaping 0 mgs.

I should have tried 0 nic, it might have worked just with the hand to mouth action, but everyone said you need HIGH nic to quit. Read @AndriaD posts, she explains addiction well.

 

[aquaholic2491]

I should have tried 0 nic, it might have worked just with the hand to mouth action, but everyone said you need HIGH nic to quit. Read @AndriaD posts, she explains addiction well.

If it were that simple there would be no market for nicotine patches, gum, or prescription drugs to help people to quit smoking. It sounds to me from the posts you want me to read that there is a much deeper problem at hand. I am by no way a dr. but the talk of stealing money, smoking cigarette butts out of an ash tray sounds like a self control problem. I know nobody who smokes that has ever done any of that. Im sure I could find someone out of the many people that vape that have stolen to get vape products. should we blame vaping for that?

 

[inspects]

I am by no way a dr. but the talk of stealing money, smoking cigarette butts out of an ash tray sounds like a self control problem.

I think it proves the other ingredients in cigs are what is really addicting, not the nicotine so much.

 

[AndriaD]

I should have tried 0 nic, it might have worked just with the hand to mouth action, but everyone said you need HIGH nic to quit. Read @AndriaD posts, she explains addiction well.

And that was actually wrong -- I quit smoking while using 6mg, in a cigalike.

I did eventually get up to 10mg, mainly because I was hunting more TH, and 10mg was the most I could handle without nausea.

Andria

 

[AndriaD]

I think it proves the other ingredients in cigs are what is really addicting, not the nicotine so much.

Exactly this. The whole thing is, it was EASY to lower nic, over about a year's time, and barely even notice it was less. It took 15 months to quit WTA, and every single percentage point drop was hard as hell; I had to make a determined effort to stick with it.

Andria

 

[AndriaD]

If it were that simple there would be no market for nicotine patches, gum, or prescription drugs to help people to quit smoking. It sounds to me from the posts you want me to read that there is a much deeper problem at hand. I am by no way a dr. but the talk of stealing money, smoking cigarette butts out of an ash tray sounds like a self control problem. I know nobody who smokes that has ever done any of that. Im sure I could find someone out of the many people that vape that have stolen to get vape products. should we blame vaping for that?

But you're rather VERY young, so the fact that you don't know about it, proves nothing. I've quit alcohol, and I've quit white powder drugs, and none of it was easy... but compared to smoking, those were very easy.

I've stolen money to buy cigarettes -- and probably lots have done that. I've grabbed butts from public ashtrays -- you probably wouldn't know of that, because there really aren't a lot of "public ashtrays" anymore, smoking is so hated and demonized. I've turned down jobs because I couldn't smoke -- lots of smokers have done that. And I know that pretty much ALL smokers would willingly go without food, just to be able to buy cigarettes.

Saying "I've never heard of that" is about the weakest argument for anything, *I* have ever heard of.

Andria