How much do flavor brands matter?

Discussion in 'DIY E-Liquid - General Discussion' started by zeeter, Nov 28, 2017.

  1. zeeter

    zeeter New Member

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    I have a ton of flavors, and when I look at a recipe online I usually have the brand that they call for. Not always, though. I realize it's on a case by case basis, but in general, how much do the brands matter? Will I dramatically change the flavor if I use a different butterscotch than the one in the recipe? Or RY4? Or most flavors?
     
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  2. pulsevape

    pulsevape Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    alot.....
     
  3. Angrygod50

    Angrygod50 Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    Ditto.... a lot
     
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  4. zeeter

    zeeter New Member

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    Care to elaborate? Is it the difference between Coke and Pepsi? Burger King and McDonalds? Or Cheerios and store brand O's, which are essentially the same thing in a different package?
     
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  5. Hillbilly Pig

    Hillbilly Pig Silver Contributor

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    Like they've said, an awful lot. Flavors vary from vendor to vendor. Example: some people say TFA VBIC tastes like pure pepper, while Cap VBIC does not. FA raspberry I think tastes like the real fruit, while INW is more like candy. TFA dragon fruit tastes the closest to the fruit, while cap tastes like perfume to me. I could go on, but the point is that who makes that flavor can be a deciding factor in a mix. One more example FA blackberry is ludicrously strong while FW is more manageable.
     
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  6. jr779

    jr779 New Member

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    I’m not a pro but have been mixing for long enough to know that while this may not apply to every flavour, different brands have significantly different flavour profiles. For instance, if you use fa custard as a replacement for caps vanilla custard, you will get very different outcomes. The same goes for strawberry as examples.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2017
  7. Angrygod50

    Angrygod50 Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    If you have a ton of flavors try it yourself. Take a recipe you like and do a test batch subbing some of the flavors with other brands.
    It won't be the same.

    EDIT: Elaborating on the above FA Custard has a lemon( Italian style) note while CAP is very vanilla. CAP's VI Vanilla Custard tastes completely different than V2 Vanilla Custard.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2017
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  8. zeeter

    zeeter New Member

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    Looks like I'll be placing another order shortly.
     
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  9. pulsevape

    pulsevape Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    Tobaccos...the only ones that I don't find disgusting are hangsen they actually taste like tobaccos...
     
  10. jambi

    jambi Bronze Contributor Member For 1 Year ECF Refugee

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    Other than standard stuff like sweetener, menthol, ethyl maltol etc, brands matter a lot, even for flavors you'd assume would be interchangeable. Example, CAP/TFA/FW Sweet Cream. I wrongly assumed these would be near identical, but they're actually very different. I found this out while swapping them in a very popular recipe called Bust A Nut by Alisa that uses a high percentage of sweet cream.The original is
    FW Bavarian Cream 3%
    FW Butter Pecan 4%
    FW Hazelnut 7%
    FW Sweet Cream 5%
    FW Sweetener 1%

    I started out subbing TFA Sweet Cream for FW which I didn't have. How different can sweet creams be, right? 5% TFA wiped out the mix, and in the process taught me that it's a flavor killer. CAP Sweet Cream was vapeable, but left the hazelnut way too harsh and dominant. In my quest to figure out why this is one of ELR's highest rated recipes, I tried decreasing the Hazelnut, increasing the Bavarian, swapping brands on Bavarian, all to no avail. I really, REALLY did not believe the brand of sweet cream could make or break this recipe. Finally, I bought the damned FW and mixed the recipe as its creator intended. BAM. Smooth, creamy, slightly sweet, rich hazelnut! One of my favorite recipes now, I make it 120 ml at a time.

    Thanks to this, now I know my sweet creams...
    TFA= Flavor killer, use sparingly or not at all.
    CAP= works as a sub for TFA, but relatively weak, can't stand up to certain other flavors, and at higher percentage starts tasting like cheese.
    FW= great for adding slightly sweet, milky-creamy weight and body, but it's obviously taking the heavy diketone route to deliver all that creamy goodness. This will be a major negative for those who associate its flavors with The Bad. Also, it becomes ever-so-slightly harsh at Alisa's ratios. I've found 3.5 % to be quite adequate in Bust a Nut.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2017
  11. SteveS45

    SteveS45 Platinum Contributor Member For 1 Year ECF Refugee

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    And don't forget that how flavors are perceived is totally subjective so what one person tastes others may not.
     
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  12. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    Yeah kinda like the different types of cola.
    There are many different Vanilla custards and I have found no 2 that match up.
    Fruits will be closer. But strengths will vary and some will taste more candy, some more chemical, etc...
     
  13. wildgypsy70

    wildgypsy70 My son calls me "vape mom" VU Donator Bronze Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    Oof. Ditto every one ^^^. Totally matters. I have definitely done the subbing thing with varying results....and you can, but it helps if you know what you’re working with, ie, doing solo trials. The experienced mixers have done the solo trials and put flavors together based on that, and even they have total screw ups! I am NOT an experienced mixer and I do the solo trials AND try to read up on anything I can about the flavors I’m working with. @HeadInClouds has a very comprehensive flavor “bible”on Flavor Art flavors....each one described as a solo flavor. Do your research. Find out what others have said about what you’re working with. There are mixing experts here! Their knowledge is here and EVERYONE is here to help you on your mixing journey. I have had so much help just reading the recipes and the following comments. :inlove:
     
  14. SmokeyMountain

    SmokeyMountain New Member

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    different brands use different extraction processes to get to the flavor content that they like. they also use different levels of base ingredients which can change the flavor profile. more ethyl alcohol in this one, less pg in that one, more artificial flavoring in this one. This is the main reason that brands matter.
     
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  15. AndriaD

    AndriaD Shine on, you crazy... VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    Yep, they really do matter; the only way to find a flavor you really like is to try several -- unless you happen to get really lucky and find a great one right off the bat, as I did with shisha strawberry. I've since tried other strawberrys, and I needn't have bothered; shisha strawberry beats 'em all.

    I try to avoid diketones where possible, so my first vanilla custard was Cap VC v2 -- which SUCKS. So then I got TFA Vanilla Swirl, and it's excellent. TFA Blueberry Extra is very authentic, but you can't use over 8% or it disappears; other blueberries might be ok, though nothing much to write home about. INW's shisha bilberry tastes like the blueberry in fruit n grain bars.

    And so on... if you have something you like, then no worries, but if you're looking for a particular taste, you might need to try several. Fortunately flavors cost a LOT less than finished ejuice. :)

    Andria
     
  16. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    All the V2 stuff sucks to me. Tastes of bile.
     
  17. Pegleg Meg

    Pegleg Meg Bronze Contributor ECF Refugee

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    It's not just a difference of mild variations in flavor (or drastic, in some cases), but strength/concentration. Some brand may be good at 2% and overkill at 10% and vice versa. More like the difference between Pepsi from a machine almost out of syrup and pure Pepsi syrup lol
     
  18. Pegleg Meg

    Pegleg Meg Bronze Contributor ECF Refugee

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    I really enjoy Cap Custard V2, especially because it takes little to no steeping. Never would have tried it if my huge bottle of V1 hadnt gotten knocked over when I was airing it out

    Also, Cap Sweet Cream v1 tastes literally of vomit on exhale if overused
     
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  19. Hillbilly Pig

    Hillbilly Pig Silver Contributor

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    I feel like that for a lot of TFA DX ones, their DX peanut butter is cardboard, which is a shame coz the regular is so good.
     
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  20. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    Been vapin CAP VC V1 for 2 years about 100 or so ml per week and no popcorn lung yet.
    Oxygenation was at 99% at my last physical..
    Not even gots dry knuckles yet :)
     
  21. Pegleg Meg

    Pegleg Meg Bronze Contributor ECF Refugee

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    It is pretty much the best flavor I have Ever messed with...Everything was good with it lol

    I notice my tongue gets fatigued from V2 much quicker, also, that is a drawback. Never got tired of V1, V2 loses taste after 3 or 4 big puffs, for me
     
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  22. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    Been vapin ONLY My V1 custard for the past 6 months.
    around 120 ml per week and ZERO Vapers tongue or anything like that.
    Last vape of the day tastes just like the first one.
    Well depending what I am vaping it in of course.
    Wonderful stuff in a Wasp.
     
  23. jojosvapes

    jojosvapes Drippopotamus VU Donator New Member

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    Well my momma used to say that mixing is like a box of chocolates.... Jokes aside and get ready for it :deadhorse: it makes a lot of difference.

    Sorry I had to its Friday and my since of humor just went off the scale cause I dont have to deal with well work stuff (ie I am on this forum).. :)

    Before you even start to read this fair warning... its long winded but I am truly trying to help, because at one point I was asking the same question you are.

    Here are a few ways / example to show/share the difference.

    When I first started out... I used what I had and knew. In the beginning I had no knowledge of vendors like wizards labs, bull city, ecig express, nice vapes and am sure a crap ton more I still dont know about.

    So I had a tons of flavors concentrates from ejuice resellers like vapewild.com and other smaller named juice re-sellers that had some small section of diy supplies. Now the DIY stuff they had was indeed cheaper than buying juice from them.

    But I look at them like the same way I compare my RC hobby with Walmart, Toys-R-S, Hobby Town, vs a true local enthusiast store like https://indyrcworld.com/. Or the final product if you will Traxxas, Losi, or Team Associated... and its that there is really no comparison they are different animals catering to different interest and final products.

    So back to mixin...

    The juice sites i bought flavor from... the concretes they sold were low quality, unnamed, and not as specific as the concentrates manufacturers (example I had a cream, or vanilla, or strawberry). But I did not have a certain brand and it was not as granular ie "Ripe Strawberry" or "Vanilla Cream"

    So the question, why does this matter?

    1. In some scenarios honestly it will not. So if you just want to make a strawberry vape. You could use any strawberry and make something you like.

    2. BUT In some scenarios you make a strawberry and its not the strawberry you want/had in mind. You want something that taste more tart or maybe sweeter-you will and can get these profiles from other brands or even different strawberry flavors from the same brand. This is why some manufacturers sell more than one type of a single flavor. So now I am imagining what I went through early on and to dive down this rabbit hole more :bunny: lets use cloning for example.

    The reason for this is because in a clone you are trying to reproduce and very specific flavor. One of the first clones I ever made, and made great was Suicide Bunny Mothers Milk (SBMM). Cliche, I know but it was the very first premium juice I ever splurged on in a local shop and I feel in love with it :inlove: hell I wanted to drink the stuff.

    But I did not make it and fall in love right away. I made it over, and over, and over and it sucked in fact I began to hate it. Started to think the clone were horrible and everyone else had crappy taste buds or a better bod than me something, anything... Then I changed ratios, I let it steep, I gave it water baths, hell I even stuck it next to a troll doll for good luck because I was out of ideas. Yep and none of that helped in even the smallest amount.

    Then boom :idea: I said you know what these flavors I have must be it. And reading about people using certain brands is not because of a personal preference or they secretly work for work for TFA and just trying to get me to spend my money on some dumb strawberry flavor that's just the same thing in a better packing. :headbang:

    I knew very well what SBMM tasted like, what it tasted like in my subohm, on drippers, at different watts and temperatures. The reason it sucked and was not what I wanted was because I wanted a certain flavor, the flavor I knew and loved and hated spending 30 bucks for. But my no name, watered down or other brand substitutes were not the recipe I wanted to reproduce. So it was never going to be the flavor I wanted to vape.

    My pinto with mustang badges will never be a mustang even with a motor upgrade...

    And this is why yes the brands and specific flavors can and DO make a difference at times depending on what you are wanting to do and what final product you want.

    Sorry for the long rant and if you actually read all this I feel like I owe you a beer or something and do wish you the best on your mixing journey (just dont stop believing). On a side note I hope VU does not have some type of newbie with the longest rant badge, I think I just got it. Damn I cant even format my text anymore I need a bigger monitor. :(
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2017
  24. AndriaD

    AndriaD Shine on, you crazy... VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    I tried for a while to clone Pipe Sauce's Long Bottom Leaf. Love that flavor, but their 95% Vg made it completely unvapeable for me. I never could get it right... but what I wound up with wasn't too bad, so I kept it and called it Smocha. Because it's definitely not Long Bottom Leaf. :D

    Andria
     
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  25. jojosvapes

    jojosvapes Drippopotamus VU Donator New Member

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  26. AndriaD

    AndriaD Shine on, you crazy... VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    Yow, I would never have thought it had blueberry in it. I don't know what sweet woodruff tastes like, so I have no idea if I tasted that or not; but in 2014, I was a freshly-quit smoker whose tastebuds didn't work worth a damn -- it took nearly 2 yrs before I could even start decreasing the flavoring in my strawberry & cream from its original 31% flavoring , and at first all I decreased was the sweetener -- I've now gotten it to just a hair under 25%, with only .1% sweetener. :D

    I'm not sure I'd like Long Bottom Leaf anymore though; I've gotten to the point that I really don't like any tobacco flavor anymore. Sure wish I'd found that recipe THEN, though. What I tasted from LBL was a sweet, kinda malty, coffeeish, chocolate-ish soft smooth tobacco... way off the mark, apparently -- no wonder I wound up with Smocha instead of LBL :giggle:

    Andria
     
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