How to mix small batches of complex recipes & adjust the strength of any recipe

Discussion in 'DIY E-Liquid - Guides, Tips & Tricks!' started by HeadInClouds, Jun 30, 2014.

  1. HeadInClouds

    HeadInClouds Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee Unlisted Vendor Vape Media

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    Yes! Exactly! :)
    You probably can stop reading here; my rambling below just explains why this will work well for you.

    Those are also easy to work with, a good round number. And now I understand your complaint about the calculator! A single drop of flavoring per 5 ml, assuming 20 drops/ml, is 1%. You CAN'T make a 5ml recipe with ingredients under 1% with those droppers. You'd need to make a 10ml batch -- because 1 drop of flavoring in there (with 20 drops/ml) would be 0.5%. And you'd need to make a 20ml batch in order for a single drop of flavoring to be 0.25%. That's a lot to vape, if you don't like it!

    So to avoid the need to make a giant batch...do it just like you said you are. Mix the flavor concentrates, then add them to your base at the total % of flavoring in the recipe. You'll be vaping it just as it was designed, and you'll never have to make huge batches. Even better - if any recipe is just too weak or too strong for you, you don't have to remix all those flavorings from scratch.

    Does that answer all your questions? If I made it more confusing, don't be afraid to say so!
     
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  2. danjc

    danjc

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    Great info, its so hard to find any information on percentages and the e-juice calculators maybe should have started a new thread on this just in case anyone else has similar Problems/questions.

    Cheers HIC now I know I'm Vaping your coco cookies the way their supposed to be.......and they are good!
     
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  3. Mixman

    Mixman New Member

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    For what its worth and just my 2 cents but if you have a complex flavor you like and want to vape it over and over this is probably the best tutorial of how to save a bunch of time and hassle and easily achieve a consistent, repeatable result time after time. This applies to anyone, from rank beginners to pros. This is good stuff. I was doing something similar but your advice saved me a step. Much appreciated
     
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  4. Mixman

    Mixman New Member

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    In my mind the key to your procedure is that the steep clock does not begin to run until the carrier and nic molecules are added to the flavor molecules. It doesn't matter if your talking about 20 ml of flavoring mix or 2 liters. Mix the flavors together, label the mix in an air tight container and set it on the shelf. Then say an order comes in for 10 bottles (300ml total) of 6mg strength. If your mix requires 6ml of flavoring per bottle (20%) you simply pour 60ml of the flavor mix into your bowl, add nicotine (18ml if your using 100mg/ml), then add pg if any and vg, mix the components together and pour 10 bottles. This system works on a small or large scale if I understand HIC correctly.
     
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  5. Mr.Mann

    Mr.Mann Bronze Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    Man, when I "discovered" (more like stumbled onto) this approach you'd-a-thunk I hit the lotto! It opens up so much creativity, ease of consistency, ease of strength-adjustment and so much more. I accidentally stumbled onto this way of mixing one day when I made up a batch of flavoring and used far too much. I realized that I could just then add that mix as a single flavoring to a solvent/nic base, and then the light bulb went off -- but it seemed so rudimentary, yet also like such a "new" idea. This thread is awesome because it is a true pro-tip!

    Really fun and easy working this way. I typically use the parts (ratio) method as I find that to be the easiest way to get my idea into liquid form the fastest.
     
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  6. Mixman

    Mixman New Member

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    Hit me that way too. I'm focused on the consistency because everything I make has to taste the same today as it did 2 months ago. Plus when you have 7-13 flavors in some recipes its just easier to be accurate 1x on each flavor and know you have a mix that will satisfy a certain number of bottles.
     
  7. Professor Snape

    Professor Snape New Member

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    Thank you very much, that helps a lot.
     
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  8. Ktribb

    Ktribb New Member

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    To calculate some it could be easy to use math and numbers, say I have a liquid that is 4% Strawberry, 8% Coconut, and 6% Dragonfruit, that is a total of 18% flavoring. If one were to take 100 / 18 * .04, then multiply that result by the size of the bottle of flavoring you're trying to fill, you get the amount of flavoring for the Strawberry, replace the .04 with .08 or .06 for the rest of the flavorings you have each amount. Hope that is clear enough for any of you lol
     
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  9. Kahzmoe

    Kahzmoe Member For 2 Years

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    I'm so glad I have a scale...best 35 bucks I ever spent.
     
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  10. fiveOclock

    fiveOclock New Member

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    This is very interesting. Thanks for the info.
    Wonder how the steeping of base effects the flavor profile. When the base is added to the fully steeped flavors, they would go through another steeping process. But sounds like this has limited effect to the overall flavor profile. And if the steeping of flavors alone are faster than the full mix, maybe we should be steeping the flavors first. So, using OP's method to mix the flavors only, throw them into a croc pot for shorter time frame, and add the base after.

    This thread might have completely changed how I mix juice. :eek:

    By the way, anybody tried adding a last minute flavor? When cooking, some spices are added right before the dish is served. I tried to simulate this by using a fully steeped juice and add a few drops of cotton candy flavor right before vaping for cleaner sweet flavor. Crazy idea but was wondering if anybody else tried it.
     
  11. Huckleberried

    Huckleberried Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    Haven't tried that, but have made base mix flavors, as the OP suggests. In my experience, there is no steeping effect. It's like creating a brand new single flavor of your fave mix. Proves to be a time saver for complex mixes you make frequently... if that made sense. It did in my head. :confused: Get all the flavors out one time, mix just those up in a larger quantity. When you need to make your juice again, you just use from the one bottle, instead of the many.
     
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  12. AmandaD

    AmandaD Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    I do the same as Huck and make largish amounts of flavor bases for juice I mix often. It tastes the same as if mixed from individual bottles, but it's much faster to add, say, 8% of one flavor mix than tiny percentages of a half dozen individual flavors! And it tastes the same every time, because it's made from the same flavor base.
     
  13. misswish

    misswish Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    This is such a time saver! Even for those of us that don't go through a lot of juice. I have my favorites, that I make flavor bottles for, and I can mix just 1 tank at a time if want. I can use the time saved to make my sample flavors!
     
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  14. Frankm

    Frankm Bronze Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    I don't understand the part about a mix not steeping until he nic is added. I do understand why someone would wait to add the nic until they were ready to vape it. If flavors bond to each other, nic is irrelevant in the steeping process. The nic would simply need to be throughly mixed once added.

    So this answers, to some degree, my question about if flavors steep while in a premixed flavor bottle, which they appear to do, at least to some degree. If the flavors only bind to each other during the steeping process, then mixing a new brew from a bottle of premixed flavor would result with the final bottle of brew ready much quicker, since the flavors from the premix flavor bottle only need to blend with the VG-pg-nic, which should be a much quicker process.

    Then again, if a flavor or flavors blend to VG and or pg, I could see the end result tasting different, depending on how much a flavor bound to VG and pg instead of another flavor which might be more likely in a bottle of premixed flavor.

    Ops, I don't realize there was another page of comments. I hope this hasn't been discussed yet.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2015
  15. HeadInClouds

    HeadInClouds Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee Unlisted Vendor Vape Media

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    Choose a recipe you're familiar with that tastes noticeably different when fresh versus steeped and try for yourself:
    - mix a small bottle of just the flavorings, enough to make a couple or a few batches of finished liquid
    - use part of it to make a batch that you'll put away to steep.
    - When it's steeped, use the original bottle of just-flavorings to make a second batch of liquid. shake it well, then...
    - immediately vape both side-by-side to compare
     
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  16. SixFiveLive

    SixFiveLive New Member

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    Thank you HIC for this and all your recipes! I started diy about a month ago, and found this forum a couple weeks ago. Its been such a help. You've converted me to using mostly FA (thanks again) and using the method in this post. I've got 7 of the recipes from your site. I've only made the Banana Pudding and Quikberry Pink so far, but they're awesome. And I appreciate all the details you put in your recipes, and how willing you are to help people.
     
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  17. HeadInClouds

    HeadInClouds Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee Unlisted Vendor Vape Media

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    I'm glad you've found such quick success with DIY. It definitely took me more than a month to get rolling when I started.
    Thanks for the compliments and for your HIC's Mixes purchases, too!
     
  18. Frankm

    Frankm Bronze Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    Ok, so I guess my interpatation of the flavor art article was off. Flavors blend with each other and the base.

    I can't help but to wonder if a new mix put on a slow turning mixing thingy (rotated the bottle non stop end to end at 1 rpm) would speed the steep process or slow it down?
     
  19. AmandaD

    AmandaD Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    Heat seems to be more effective in steeping! (Not over 150 degrees)
     
  20. Frankm

    Frankm Bronze Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    Something else I've noticed and tested to validate. My test consisted of two bottles made at the same time. Both us heat steeped, then in the closet for a few days. Then I put one bottle in my bag (30ml) to vape from time to time. After my bag bottle was gone, about 3 weeks, I pulled out he bottle from the closet to see if they steeped the same. The one from the closet was much smoother. I drive a truck and am away from the house about 14 hours a day, so my travel bottle only sits idle for 9 to 10 hours a day. The rest of the time it is shaking and vibrating. The difference between the bottles was very noticeable.
     
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  21. AmandaD

    AmandaD Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    So the difference was the vibration from the truck? That makes sense - lots of shaking oxidizes the nic and makes it harsher!
     
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  22. Frankm

    Frankm Bronze Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    That is not my impression. It seemed the bottle shaking around in my bag simply did not steep at the same speed as the bottle in the closet.
     
  23. AmandaD

    AmandaD Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    The one from the closet was much smoother - makes sense, it hasn't oxidized to the same extent as the one in the truck which was constantly shaken and exposed to air (due to being opened to refill).
     
  24. Mroutlaw

    Mroutlaw VU Donator Silver Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    so how do you know how much to add to the vg/pg? Do you just add up the total percentage of flavoring in the recipe and then add that much to vg/pg mix?
     
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  25. HeadInClouds

    HeadInClouds Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee Unlisted Vendor Vape Media

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    Yes, you got it! Then if you want it stronger, just add a little more of that one bottle of flavoring.
     
  26. Menthol

    Menthol Member For 2 Years

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    What can I say, Just read all this thread and it's opened my eyes, Genious.
    I've been vaping the best part of four years and mixing on off for the last couple and always failed,That is until I discovered the underground, So much more answers here to my overwhelming questions.
    Thanks guys.
     
  27. The Varista

    The Varista VU Donator New Member

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    If you create a receipe with this calculator: http://e-liquid-recipes.com/ You can then click the edit button and you'll see a link that will automatically calculate the base mix for the receipe. I find it very useful not having to use my simple mind to figure it out.
     
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  28. Menthol

    Menthol Member For 2 Years

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    Handy feature i never knew, Thanks.
     
  29. nabibrian

    nabibrian VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    Sorry, if my question sounds noobish :(
    I think I was understanding until I read this part (doubling everything)

    So let me see if I understand this... I am slow please forgive me.

    Made up recipe
    Flavor A 4%
    Flavor B 2%
    Flavor C 6%
    Flavor D 3%

    Let's say I want to pre-mix a recipe with all my ingredients minus the pg/vg and nic.
    I want to build a pre-mix recipe flavor in let's say a 120ml bottle. Based on your description, how do I accomplish this?

    Do I use the same percentages that my recipe asks for with each ingredient?
    Do I keep repeating this until I fill up the entire size of my 120ml bottle?

    Next question, when it comes time to mix up a batch with my pre-mix. Do I just use the total flavor percentage amount from the recipe with the vg/pg and nic. In this case, 15% ?

    Thank you for taking time to help me understand. o_O
     
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  30. The Varista

    The Varista VU Donator New Member

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    To make a 240ml batch of concentrate...you would need to mix the following:
    Flavor 1...64ml
    Flavor 2...32ml
    Flavor 3...96ml
    Flavor 4...48ml

    That would be your flavor concentrate and should be mixed at 15% (which is the same as your flavor total) with your pg/vg nic base.
     
  31. The Varista

    The Varista VU Donator New Member

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    That would be enough base for 1600ml of finished liquid
     
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  32. HeadInClouds

    HeadInClouds Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee Unlisted Vendor Vape Media

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    Total flavoring percent in the recipe: 15 and Total ml you want: 120
    120 divided by 15 is 8
    Multiply all the numbers by 8

    Flavor A 4 * 8 = 32ml
    Flavor B 2 * 8 = 16ml
    Flavor C 6 * 8 = 48ml
    Flavor D 3 * 8 = 24ml

    That gives you 120ml of just the flavoring. You'd use it at 15% (the total % in the original recipe)
     
  33. nabibrian

    nabibrian VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    Thank you for the answer a big help. Much appreciated!
     
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  34. Grand Rapids E-Liquid

    Grand Rapids E-Liquid SENDMYELIQUID.COM VU Vendor VU Donator VU Donator Member For 2 Years New Member

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    Use a gram scale and a calulator. We use a simple excel spreadsheet. If you are experimenting with new flavors just drop them on a piece of paper towel (1 drop for each part) Then smell it... If you think it worth mixing then go for it.
     
  35. southern_heat

    southern_heat New Member

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    OMFknGD!!!!!!! If I had only seen this like an hour before I just made my so called first 30ml diy e-liquid. You are as they say,"LEGEND". (sometimes its the little things said that makes the biggest impact).
     
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  36. kimber

    kimber Silver Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    I know I'm late to this party but I just spent the last 20 minutes or so reading through this post and it's like the lightbulb just went off!!! I've been DIYing for over two years and only ever came up with 3 or 4 juices that I liked even a little and certainly nothing complex. May I say that @HIC is an outright genius and an excellent teacher. I think I finally get it!! I've spent the last couple of weeks trying to figure out how in the HELL I was going to get 0.25% flavor! I get it now. Thank you SO MUCH HIC!!!


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
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  37. rchmx

    rchmx VU Donator Bronze Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    This is likely very useful information for me, but let me ask a question to make sure I understand.

    Lets say I like a flavor that consists of 2% vanilla and 4% Strawberry. When I make that juice up the normal way, I'd end up with a juice with a total of 6% flavoring. So, if I make up a pre-mixed flavoring bottle containing 2% Vanilla and 4% Strawberry, I would simply use 6% from that bottle to arrive at a juice that would be exactly the same as if I had mixed it the normal way?
     
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  38. Huckleberried

    Huckleberried Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    Yes
     
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  39. Liquidlunch

    Liquidlunch Member For 1 Year

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    pure gold information, gLad a found this thread, thinking i may need to up my HIC flavourings too as I like it a bit stronger. But am gonna hold off till i've steeped for a while to make sure. :) Just made some blueberry coconut smoothie and Italian lime cream soda, im never buying e-juice again, what a waste of flavouring monies!
     
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  40. Huckleberried

    Huckleberried Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    When I started mixing HIC's recipes a couple years ago, I increased a flavoring, or 2, depending on the mix. Over time, though, I suppose as my taste buds healed up from not smoking anymore, I've been able to mix as written and getting plenty of flavor. I'm with ya. I purchased one bottle of juice since I started DIY because I kept hearing so much about it. It was worth it, too, but I still prefer DIY.
     
  41. The Varista

    The Varista VU Donator New Member

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    I make a lot of your juices this way. My question is, once I mix a flavor base and it seeps for the length of time you recommend in the actual mixed juice reicepe, do I need to seep it again when I make a bottle from the seeped concentrate?
     
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  42. Menthol

    Menthol Member For 2 Years

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    If i remember right the mix master HIC says "as soon as you add the NIC the steep clock starts".
    So your 10ml of concentrates shouldn't change, Plus most of HIC's mixes are shake and vape.
     
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  43. laurie9300

    laurie9300 Member For 3 Years

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    Another small tip I would like to add to this most excellent thread.

    If I want to mix a small batch of a recipe, and there is a flavour included at a small percentage, e.g. 0.25%.

    I will make a small bottle of that particular flavour at 25% with PG. (1:4)

    This can then be used at 1% in your mix.
     
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  44. inspects

    inspects Squonkamaniac Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    Glad I stumbled upon this thread, great information....thanks!
     
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  45. Menthol

    Menthol Member For 2 Years

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    Another way to make small batches which i do myself now is use a 1mm syringe with a fine needle (pink) , This equates to about 72 drops per ml so is ideal for the smaller percentages.
    So 0.5 % would be 4 drops
    and 0.25 would be 2 drops
     
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  46. AmandaD

    AmandaD Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    In a total mix of how many mls? :p (I'm too lazy to do the math on Sunday afternoon!)
     
  47. Menthol

    Menthol Member For 2 Years

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    All the mixes I try I make either a 5 or 10ml mix

    See example below

    Grilled Bananas with Ice Cream and Caramel

    3.5% Bano (Banana) (FA) 26 Drops
    1.5% Brown Sugar (TPA) 11 Drops
    0.5% Butterscotch (FA) 4 Drops
    0.5% Caramel (FA) 4 Drops
    0.5% Cinnamon Ceylon (FA) 4 Drops
    0.75% Cream Fresh (FA) 6 Drops
    0.1% Honey (FA) 1 Drop
    0.5% Marshmallow (FA) 4 Drops
    0.5% Pear (FA) 11 Drops
    1.5% Vienna Cream (FA)
    0.5% Walnut (FA) 4 Drops

    Flavor total: 10.35%


    Recipe by Shaner
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2016
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  48. Frankm

    Frankm Bronze Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    21 gauge blunt tip needle works out on average to 100 -110 drops per ml (let's just say it is 100). If making. 1 ml test batch, each drop would be 1%. If making a 4 ml test batch, each drop would be .25%. The 21 gauge needles will fit through the drip tips of the flavor bottles.
     
  49. Menthol

    Menthol Member For 2 Years

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    I think you'll find your including the extra that's drawn up to the first marking on the syringe which is about .5 ml .
     
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  50. Frankm

    Frankm Bronze Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    Well, that was 1.5 years ago. Maybe I'm remembering what I thought before I started using a scale.
     

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