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Hunter Vaping Legislation

r055co

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AndriaD

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Some are pimping this out as good, but as with all bullshit from the government the Devil is in the details. While it would toss the FDA Deeming Regulations it also bans Mech's and unregulated Mod's.

https://www.regulatorwatch.com/bren...aping-legislation-ready-replace-deeming-regs/

Still not a day goes by that I'm not thankful that I stockpiled and continue to.

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Yep. I don't use my 2 mechs, but I fucking DEFY anyone to take them away from me! They are MINE, and I do know how to use them! I happen to prefer using them with a Kick, to give me the regulated low-wattage vape I prefer... but if I didn't have Kicks stockpiled, I do know how to build 3 ohm coils, if I need to. ;)

Andria
 

r055co

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Yep. I don't use my 2 mechs, but I fucking DEFY anyone to take them away from me! They are MINE, and I do know how to use them! I happen to prefer using them with a Kick, to give me the regulated low-wattage vape I prefer... but if I didn't have Kicks stockpiled, I do know how to build 3 ohm coils, if I need to. ;)

Andria
Yep I've Stockpiled a lot, hell I even have a stash of wire, 10's of 1000's of feet. A little voice whispers in my ear telling me that they may make quality small gauge wire difficult to find. I very well be wrong for I love my Fused Claptons.

The FDA is trying to ban battery sales to the general public.

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JuicyLucy

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Some are pimping this out as good, but as with all bullshit from the government the Devil is in the details. While it would toss the FDA Deeming Regulations it also bans Mech's and unregulated Mod's.

https://www.regulatorwatch.com/bren...aping-legislation-ready-replace-deeming-regs/

Still not a day goes by that I'm not thankful that I stockpiled and continue to.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

Glad I stockpiled too despite the naysayers

I have a feeling there are many other hidden booby traps in this

Only read to page 21 and have not yet been able to reference the subsections it refers to

Looks like it could be a tool used to bludgeon hobbyists-modders - who we all know make the very best devises available today

Also see how it could open the door for limiting or attempts to regulate allowable "ohms" - like requiring governors in mods -

Remember the bad old days when batteries in power tools had "memories" that would lead to failure if you charged without draining? Imagine that on your "ecigarette" :eek:
 

r055co

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Glad I stockpiled too despite the naysayers

I have a feeling there are many other hidden booby traps in this

Only read to page 21 and have not yet been able to reference the subsections it refers to

Looks like it could be a tool used to bludgeon hobbyists-modders - who we all know make the very best devises available today

Also see how it could open the door for limiting or attempts to regulate allowable "ohms" - like requiring governors in mods -

Remember the bad old days when batteries in power tools had "memories" that would lead to failure if you charged without draining? Imagine that on your "ecigarette" :eek:
Yep, while Big Tobacco doesn't want out right ban Vaping they do want it limited to closed systems.

Big Pharma
Big Tobacco
Big Government
Taxes

It's all about control!

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r055co

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The tactics they're using is the same old shit, distractions. Sad to see that it's working like it always does.

They're not focusing on the threshold issues which are -
1. It's not tobacco
2. It's Food
3. There are no legitimate peer reviewed studies showing that it's harmful, truth is they show the opposite

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JuicyLucy

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The tactics they're using is the same old shit, distractions. Sad to see that it's working like it always does.

They're not focusing on the threshold issues which are -
1. It's not tobacco
2. It's Food
3. There are no legitimate peer reviewed studies showing that it's harmful, truth is they show the opposite

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Yeah, and establishing new departments for tobacco harm reduction inside the FDA is not confidence inspiring at all
 

Train

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I don't interpret this as "banning mechs" - even if they MEANT to.

‘(A) BATTERY SAFETY.—Any battery used in a personal electronic vaporizer shall conform to the IEC 62133 standards of the International Electrotechnical Commission, as in effect on the date of enactment of the Cigarette Smoking Reduction and Electronic Vapor Alternatives Act of 2017 and including any revision to such standards made in accordance with paragraph (3).

(B) SHORT CIRCUIT PROTECTION.—A personal electronic vaporizer shall have a mechanism to ensure user and battery safety in the event of a short circuit of the heating element.
OK - maybe this is a deal-killer for a PURE mech, but maybe there's workarounds. Like a hot spring. Or an inline fuse.

(C) DISCHARGE MONITORING.—A re-chargeable personal electronic vaporizer shall have a mechanism to prevent the battery from being discharged below a safe voltage during use or discharged faster than the battery can sustain safely.
This mechanism is known as "stops making vapor".

(D) CHARGE MONITORING.—A personal electronic vaporizer that contains an onboard charger shall include circuitry to monitor the battery voltage and charge current and limit these to safe levels. A personal electronic vaporizer that contains multiple battery cells in series 15 shall monitor the cells individually.


Seriously, you just can't "ban" a product that is essentially a battery and a switch.
They can make it difficult to ADVERTISE it as a mechanical mod. But even then - it could be sold with a section that contains a low-voltage and short-circuit cutoff. A section that's removeable - or as mentioned above - every tube mech comes with a Kick? Done.
 

Train

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There's gonna be issues with any bill - this one at least is an ATTEMPT, I am pretty sure, at something that allows the industry to continue - NOT just run by big pharma or big tobacco. Yes with some crap that's not quite thought out...

In case you forgot - or never saw it - THIS is Duncan Hunter -he's really trying to help vapers...
 

r055co

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I don't interpret this as "banning mechs" - even if they MEANT to.

‘(A) BATTERY SAFETY.—Any battery used in a personal electronic vaporizer shall conform to the IEC 62133 standards of the International Electrotechnical Commission, as in effect on the date of enactment of the Cigarette Smoking Reduction and Electronic Vapor Alternatives Act of 2017 and including any revision to such standards made in accordance with paragraph (3).

(B) SHORT CIRCUIT PROTECTION.—A personal electronic vaporizer shall have a mechanism to ensure user and battery safety in the event of a short circuit of the heating element.
OK - maybe this is a deal-killer for a PURE mech, but maybe there's workarounds. Like a hot spring. Or an inline fuse.

(C) DISCHARGE MONITORING.—A re-chargeable personal electronic vaporizer shall have a mechanism to prevent the battery from being discharged below a safe voltage during use or discharged faster than the battery can sustain safely.
This mechanism is known as "stops making vapor".

(D) CHARGE MONITORING.—A personal electronic vaporizer that contains an onboard charger shall include circuitry to monitor the battery voltage and charge current and limit these to safe levels. A personal electronic vaporizer that contains multiple battery cells in series 15 shall monitor the cells individually.


Seriously, you just can't "ban" a product that is essentially a battery and a switch.
They can make it difficult to ADVERTISE it as a mechanical mod. But even then - it could be sold with a section that contains a low-voltage and short-circuit cutoff. A section that's removeable - or as mentioned above - every tube mech comes with a Kick? Done.
B, C, and D will ban Mech's. Sure you can try to get around it by having something like a kick. But remember the new department being created. They will have full regulatory powers to change, tighten up, ban, etc at will.

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r055co

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There's gonna be issues with any bill - this one at least is an ATTEMPT, I am pretty sure, at something that allows the industry to continue - NOT just run by big pharma or big tobacco. Yes with some crap that's not quite thought out...

In case you forgot - or never saw it - THIS is Duncan Hunter -he's really trying to help vapers...
Then he should focus on the the threshold issues, make them define what a tobacco product is.

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Train

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Yeah - gotta agree with you there.
I don't think they should be regulating mods any more than they regulate, I dunno, calculators, or flashlights.

Just do what's needed to ensure that e-liquid meets some kind of simple standard - maybe have Health Departments inspect juice manufacturers.



Then he should focus on the the threshold issues, make them define what a tobacco product is.

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inspects

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If there was prohibition again for booze, I'd make my own just in spite. Fuck um all.

Like Rossco and Juice, I'm stockpiled to the hilt, enough stuff to last two lifetimes, it's the people who are still smoking, or know nothing about vaping (yet) which makes me sick. Sooner or later big tobacco-pharma will win, like they always have. A billion lives do matter, but BT and BP only care about the money, and have most politicians in their pocket.
 

r055co

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If we support this new legislation we will be supporting their claims that Vaping is Tobacco.

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Carambrda

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Mech mods aren't personal electronic vaporizers, and that is despite that I intentfully had chosen the "Mechanical pics!" thread to post a picture of my Surric X Vault. Certainly they can be very personal I would have to presume, but... electronic no way Josée.
 

r055co

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Yeah - gotta agree with you there.
I don't think they should be regulating mods any more than they regulate, I dunno, calculators, or flashlights.

Just do what's needed to ensure that e-liquid meets some kind of simple standard - maybe have Health Departments inspect juice manufacturers.
E-juice is food and should be regulated as any other food that is marketed.

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Giraut

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[...]While it would toss the FDA Deeming Regulations it also bans Mech's and unregulated Mod's.

I'm split on this one. My opinion has always been that mech mods should be outlawed, because they're just plain dangerous. They're only somewhat safe in the hands of those who know what they're doing. But as we all know, there are plenty of idiots in the world, and those are the ones who give vaping a bad name when their mechs explode in their hands.

Yet I can't stand powers-that-be that want to restrict the right of people to blow up their faces if they want to...

In the end, for the sake of not starting down the slippery slope, I suppose I should err on the side of freedom...
 

zaptear

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Do you really think thy will ban 18650 battery I have a life time of mechs and unregulated mods do I now need to stock pile batteries as well?


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r055co

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I'm split on this one. My opinion has always been that mech mods should be outlawed, because they're just plain dangerous. They're only somewhat safe in the hands of those who know what they're doing. But as we all know, there are plenty of idiots in the world, and those are the ones who give vaping a bad name when their mechs explode in their hands.

Yet I can't stand powers-that-be that want to restrict the right of people to blow up their faces if they want to...

In the end, for the sake of not starting down the slippery slope, I suppose I should err on the side of freedom...
Then any car that can do over 55 needs to be banned. Along with that Motorcycles, football, boxing, etc, etc.

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r055co

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Do you really think thy will ban 18650 battery I have a life time of mechs and unregulated mods do I now need to stock pile batteries as well?


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I don't think they will be able to to for there are other uses. But one never knows. Besides batteries degrade with age so stockpiling wouldn't be possible.

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Train

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More people injured by lawnmowers. Power drills. Staple-guns.
Like, it's not even close.
Want to know how many thousands of people pull a TV off the wall onto their face every year?
Ban the toasters!



I'm split on this one. My opinion has always been that mech mods should be outlawed, because they're just plain dangerous. They're only somewhat safe in the hands of those who know what they're doing. But as we all know, there are plenty of idiots in the world, and those are the ones who give vaping a bad name when their mechs explode in their hands.

Yet I can't stand powers-that-be that want to restrict the right of people to blow up their faces if they want to...

In the end, for the sake of not starting down the slippery slope, I suppose I should err on the side of freedom...
 

Giraut

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More people injured by lawnmowers. Power drills. Staple-guns.
Like, it's not even close.
Want to know how many thousands of people pull a TV off the wall onto their face every year?
Ban the toasters!

There is a difference: your lawnmower, power drill, staple gun, TV and toaster all feature built-in safety devices - most notably, when it has anything electrical in it, a fuse. These devices offer as much protection against user error and unavoidable parts failure as possible.

When people do hurt themselves with these things, that's usually because they act so foolishly that the device's build-in protections can't do anything about it. Either that or a particular fault inside the device occurs that was overlooked in the design's FMECA - in which case companies often get sued and lose for failing to ensure safety.

My beef with mech mod is, even if the user uses it carefully, intelligently and in good faith, if anything happens, there is no safety net. Using any device containing a battery capable of releasing a lot of power very quickly that doesn't even have a fuse is just plain retarded.

People who swear by mech mods, and their God-given freedom to buy and use anything they want without government intervention and yada-yada, would be the first to be shocked if electricians weren't regulated and required to wire houses with a circuit breaker, fuse box, properly separated phases and good grounding.

They take advantage of that awful nanny state whenever they buy a house - or a TV or a lawnmower - in full confidence that it'll be constructed properly and extremely unlikely to set fire to their homes in the middle of the night while they sleep. They bitch and moan when a company fails to live up to those safety expectations: just look at the stink when Samsung released their infamous self-combusting cellphone. Yet the same people throw a fit when someone wants to intervene to bring their dangerous type of personal vaporizer up to basic safety standards. That's just beyond me...

I'm all for minimal state intervention. But requiring a modicum of safety in a device in which none exists seems reasonable to me. Mandatory product safety standards are why houses don't go up in flame willy-nilly, and people rarely lose fingers and toes to lawnmowers anymore. We've all come to expect and enjoy safety in potentially dangerous electrical devices, and I fail to see why mech mods should be exempted.
 

forza

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Can't we just put a tag on this stuff like they do with blowdryers?

*Do not use this device in the shower*

**This device contains batteries. If used inappropriately they will blow your face off. Do not use this device if you are an idiot**

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Briandesimone

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There is a difference: your lawnmower, power drill, staple gun, TV and toaster all feature built-in safety devices - most notably, when it has anything electrical in it, a fuse. These devices offer as much protection against user error and unavoidable parts failure as possible.

When people do hurt themselves with these things, that's usually because they act so foolishly that the device's build-in protections can't do anything about it. Either that or a particular fault inside the device occurs that was overlooked in the design's FMECA - in which case companies often get sued and lose for failing to ensure safety.

My beef with mech mod is, even if the user uses it carefully, intelligently and in good faith, if anything happens, there is no safety net. Using any device containing a battery capable of releasing a lot of power very quickly that doesn't even have a fuse is just plain retarded.

People who swear by mech mods, and their God-given freedom to buy and use anything they want without government intervention and yada-yada, would be the first to be shocked if electricians weren't regulated and required to wire houses with a circuit breaker, fuse box, properly separated phases and good grounding.

They take advantage of that awful nanny state whenever they buy a house - or a TV or a lawnmower - in full confidence that it'll be constructed properly and extremely unlikely to set fire to their homes in the middle of the night while they sleep. They bitch and moan when a company fails to live up to those safety expectations: just look at the stink when Samsung released their infamous self-combusting cellphone. Yet the same people throw a fit when someone wants to intervene to bring their dangerous type of personal vaporizer up to basic safety standards. That's just beyond me...

I'm all for minimal state intervention. But requiring a modicum of safety in a device in which none exists seems reasonable to me. Mandatory product safety standards are why houses don't go up in flame willy-nilly, and people rarely lose fingers and toes to lawnmowers anymore. We've all come to expect and enjoy safety in potentially dangerous electrical devices, and I fail to see why mech mods should be exempted.
You do make a good point!

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JuicyLucy

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your lawnmower, power drill, staple gun, TV and toaster all feature built-in safety devices

Untrue: there are mechanical lawn mowers, drills, staples and toasters. TV is the only one that do not come as a purely mechanical device


Using any device containing a battery capable of releasing a lot of power very quickly that doesn't even have a fuse is just plain retarded.

Thanks for calling many of us on this thread retarded - that is very sweet of you. Then saying we are the first to be shocked if electricians weren't regulated and act like there is something wrong with the fact we sometimes use other electronics with built-in safety features. Then you say we are the first to bitch and moan if safeties fail - I would like to see your statistics to back that one up, lol. Frankly, you can't. :bs: You made that up.

While I can respect an opinion that what you feel is an unsafe product should not be sold, I cannot respect your tirade using ridiculous presumptions and name calling

That smacks of being a blow hole
 

AndriaD

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I like forza's idea: if you're an idiot, don't use a product that has no safety net. Problem solved. Superb, @forza !

Personally, I'm not an idiot, and I prefer a regulated vape, so if I use a mech, I put a Kick in it. But if I run out of Kicks, then I'll build a 3 ohm coil, because... not an idiot! Don't want a hot vape! :giggle:

Andria
 

Train

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Sorry, but I disagree.

While it's possible to design a dangerous mechanical mod, it's actually far EASIER to design a dangerous regulated mod. And as many or more injuries have happened with regulated mods than mechanical - because the most common injuries (and "fires" or "explosions" without injury) are caused by
a) Charging issues
and
b) loose batteries

You said yourself "IF USED PROPERLY" - regarding both products with fuses and mech mods - but drew different conclusions.
If using a mech mod properly "something happens" doesn't happen.

When you see those terrible stories - it's because of misuse.
And again - it is FAR FAR less common that electrical fires in homes or people sawing off fingers - they just don't put every instance of those things on the news.

I trust my mechs more than I trust my regulated mods.
Because you know what? Chips fail. I've SEEN mods auto-fire. But only on a device with electronics.
The only way my mech is dangerous is if I do something dangerous. So - my perspective is the oppposite of yours. I don't like the danger of relying on the electronics to keep me safe - I'd rather be in DIRECT control of things with a mech.




There is a difference: your lawnmower, power drill, staple gun, TV and toaster all feature built-in safety devices - most notably, when it has anything electrical in it, a fuse. These devices offer as much protection against user error and unavoidable parts failure as possible.

When people do hurt themselves with these things, that's usually because they act so foolishly that the device's build-in protections can't do anything about it. Either that or a particular fault inside the device occurs that was overlooked in the design's FMECA - in which case companies often get sued and lose for failing to ensure safety.

My beef with mech mod is, even if the user uses it carefully, intelligently and in good faith, if anything happens, there is no safety net. Using any device containing a battery capable of releasing a lot of power very quickly that doesn't even have a fuse is just plain retarded.

People who swear by mech mods, and their God-given freedom to buy and use anything they want without government intervention and yada-yada, would be the first to be shocked if electricians weren't regulated and required to wire houses with a circuit breaker, fuse box, properly separated phases and good grounding.

They take advantage of that awful nanny state whenever they buy a house - or a TV or a lawnmower - in full confidence that it'll be constructed properly and extremely unlikely to set fire to their homes in the middle of the night while they sleep. They bitch and moan when a company fails to live up to those safety expectations: just look at the stink when Samsung released their infamous self-combusting cellphone. Yet the same people throw a fit when someone wants to intervene to bring their dangerous type of personal vaporizer up to basic safety standards. That's just beyond me...

I'm all for minimal state intervention. But requiring a modicum of safety in a device in which none exists seems reasonable to me. Mandatory product safety standards are why houses don't go up in flame willy-nilly, and people rarely lose fingers and toes to lawnmowers anymore. We've all come to expect and enjoy safety in potentially dangerous electrical devices, and I fail to see why mech mods should be exempted.
 

KentA

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... many or more injuries have happened with regulated mods than mechanical - because the most common injuries (and "fires" or "explosions" without injury) are caused by
a) Charging issues
and
b) loose batteries

...I trust my mechs more than I trust my regulated mods.
Because you know what? Chips fail. I've SEEN mods auto-fire. But only on a device with electronics.
The only way my mech is dangerous is if I do something dangerous. So - my perspective is the oppposite of yours. I don't like the danger of relying on the electronics to keep me safe - I'd rather be in DIRECT control of things with a mech.
I prefer not to use a regulated & depend on Chinese quality to keep me safe.
 

Carambrda

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Sorry, but I disagree.

While it's possible to design a dangerous mechanical mod, it's actually far EASIER to design a dangerous regulated mod. And as many or more injuries have happened with regulated mods than mechanical - because the most common injuries (and "fires" or "explosions" without injury) are caused by
a) Charging issues
and
b) loose batteries

You said yourself "IF USED PROPERLY" - regarding both products with fuses and mech mods - but drew different conclusions.
If using a mech mod properly "something happens" doesn't happen.

When you see those terrible stories - it's because of misuse.
And again - it is FAR FAR less common that electrical fires in homes or people sawing off fingers - they just don't put every instance of those things on the news.

I trust my mechs more than I trust my regulated mods.
Because you know what? Chips fail. I've SEEN mods auto-fire. But only on a device with electronics.
The only way my mech is dangerous is if I do something dangerous. So - my perspective is the oppposite of yours. I don't like the danger of relying on the electronics to keep me safe - I'd rather be in DIRECT control of things with a mech.
It gets way worse than that. The electronic/electric safety features of a regulated mod are why so many people ignore to do their homework about battery safety, as these features give them the wrong impression that proper knowledge of battery safety is no longer a strict requirement, which both me and Edward Snowden can prove.
 

Rickajho

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My beef with mech mod is, even if the user uses it carefully, intelligently and in good faith, if anything happens, there is no safety net. Using any device containing a battery capable of releasing a lot of power very quickly that doesn't even have a fuse is just plain retarded.

Sweeping generalizations aside, that is not true for all mechanicals. Collapsible battery spring - look it up.
 

The Cromwell

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Mechs need an insulating sleeve inside the tube. A few new ones have it.
 

Rossum

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My opinion has always been that mech mods should be outlawed

sMiZnjY.png
 

The Cromwell

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Nature tries to eliminate them from the gene pool. Unfortunately, government fights nature by trying to protect stupid people from themselves.
Religions more-so than governments.

And those behind the 2 party system love stupid people. so easy to mislead.
 

Giraut

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Sheesh you guys... All these talks of mech mods made me dust off a couple of mine and redo the builds for fixed resistance kanthal. Well, it's funny because:

- I hate cleaning copper, I really do
- I hate non-TC vaping
- I hate battery fade
- I hate the metallic smell on my hand
- I hate the position of the buttons at the bottom of the tubes
- I cringe when I see how perilously close the battery is to making unwanted contact with metallic bits

Yet... I must say, I love those mods just right now. They're works of art, and there's something stupidly primal that's inexplicably attractive about them, that you don't get in a regulated mod. I've been vaping them all day, and YOU GUYS made me do it :)

But fuck if I leave them out of my sight with a battery inside... They'll probably go back in my box of forgotten things tonite.
 

MacTechVpr

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I trust my mechs more than I trust my regulated mods.
Because you know what? Chips fail. I've SEEN mods auto-fire. But only on a device with electronics.
The only way my mech is dangerous is if I do something dangerous. So - my perspective is the oppposite of yours. I don't like the danger of relying on the electronics to keep me safe - I'd rather be in DIRECT control of things with a mech.

Yes, the argument can reasonably be made that with a very basic know-how mechanicals are a safer alternative overall. Predictability is everything.

Good luck. :)
 

pulsevape

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Yeah dimwitts go ahead and outlaw well designed well built mech mods....instead let people mod there own out of sardine tins and copper water pipes..because that is what they will do...because that's what we used to do....so instead of strong walled tubes with insulated interiors, good venting.. like the broadside we'll have cloud bros running around with flashlights with bailing wire wrapped around them....I swear at this point in time, anyone who thinks the goverment can take better care of them than they can themselves should just have the word "imbecile" branded on their forehead and be grazed on on BLM land, until they are needed for cannon fodder.or sent out to play hunger games with each other.
 
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skt239

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Yeah dimwitts go ahead and outlaw well designed well built mech mods....instead let people mod there own out of sardine tins and copper water pipes..because that is what they will do...because that's what we used to do....so instead of strong walled tubes with insulated interiors, good venting.. like the broadside we'll have cloud bros running around with flashlights with bailing wire wrapped around them....I swear at this point in time, anyone who thinks the goverment can take better care of them than they can themselves should just have the word "imbecile" branded on their forehead and be grazed on on BLM land, until they are needed for cannon fodder.

That's what ban-tards always forget.
 

The Cromwell

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less than 1% of current mechs have insulating sleeves inside.
Mechs do require a higher level of user knowledge than regulated mods to operate safely.
Those are facts.
I do not call for outlawing of mechs just make them all safer with insulated sleeves. Insulators in the top of hybrid style mechs, Good venting, etc.

And yes as a whole the human species is pretty shortsighted and mostly stupid and eager to be led.
 

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