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I Have a Couple Question's Regarding "Flavorless E-Juice" and also Added Flavoring's.

brian435baer

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Hello, my name is Brian and I work for an e-liquid manufacturer called *********. We mix, create, and bottle e-liquid's of our own, and also for many others vape shops across the country.
I have been vaping for going on 1 year now, I started out a newbie, and over time became accustom to Vaping and began to re-search every new Vape product and also the science behind Vaping relatively early in my Vaping Journey. I'm also very cautious as to what I vape, and how I vape now a days. So, I've recently found myself vaping way too much(IMO) - about 15-25mL a day, now money and having a steady supply of e-liquid is no problem for me at all, I have access to as much of it as I please, so I really have no limit as to how much I vape, and how often I do it. I have several different high-powered device's, and I used to be a cloud chaser, but up until most recently I became a flavor chaser/junkie. I only vape very exclusively 99 vape Impact which is a proprietary blend of; Circle Cereal and Milk. To help lower my e-liquid consumption I've started vaping at 20-30watts MAX, and I've also increased my Nicotine content to 4.5-5.0mg/per mL. While this has definitely helped me some, I still find myself vaping quite a bit.. mainly due to the fact that I'm now a flavor chaser, rather than a cloud chaser, I find the flavor to be quite relaxing and fulfilling, its almost like eating something.

I Need to figure out how to still get a desired amount of Nicotine, without big clouds, without high wattage, because I am worried that these milky white clouds I'm inhaling and exhaling are going to eventually catch up to me in the future(in 10-20 years). I Quit smoking cigarettes about 2 months ago, and have since then felt great about my choice to quit, and I do know vaping is a much safer and healthier alternative when it comes to my body, after-all that was my goal, was to kick burning tobacco and tobacco in general out of my life because I knew burning\and or chewing tobacco was not very good for my lungs or body at all.!

now, almost 12 months into vaping, after the cloud chasing stage, the huge clouds, the feeling good about myself and the flavor I was getting and also the showing off my equipment to others stage(who's got the better/most desirable mod stage) - I'm ready to step down, and reduce my e-liquid consumption drastically, I don't want to blow through 15-25mL some days 30mL's of e-liquid A DAY !! I want to limit myself, and I also want to stop flavor chasing. I no longer want to vape as a hobby, I want to use Vaping as a tool, as it was designed to be - not as a hobby, and a collector and as a sport. I Support vaping to the fullest and totally agree with everything the industry has to say about vaping - I just don't want to use it as a hobby or interest anymore, I just want to use it as a tool to get my nicotine, and that's all.
now, I've also read numerous study's - studies related to the health effects vaping has on the body,and also many of the ones designed to scare and confuse those of us who do vape - I'm not blind and I clearly see between the lines - its all a gimic to deceive us and make us think vaping is unsafe as a means of smoking Cessation - or atleast cause panic and fear amongst those of us who do vape/ or those of us who worry about the second hand effects of vaping - now I do know the difference between the two(those articles/scientific studies which are there to help/ and those that are there to confuse) so with that being said there are some studies that are useful i've found in my research.
which of them are true and which of them are false, and also those of them which are helpful and those of them which are completely irrelevant - its hard to tell.
I've recently stumbled upon a few that seem legit, and they focus on flavorings added to the PG.VG.NICOTINE in e-liquids, and they state that the flavorings may have a negative effect on tissue inside the lungs. like cinnamon, kola, vanilla - to name a few - so I'm wondering if I would be better off with vaping an eliquid that has no added flavorings (as far as lowering my risk of possible health related issues in my future years) - I am 28 years old this year in August. I was an ex-smoker since the age of 16?(roughly) possible earlier, and only up until most recently I quit for good(not looking back!) - I started to have these nightmares about dying so ive been trying to improve my health in every way possible - starting with my smoking habits - as I fear dying from terminal illness, especially heart attacks, heart failure - and anything involving my lungs. I'm looking for a possible recipe that will eliminate both flavorings and any of the other 3 ingredients involved in the process of mixing e-juice.
******** (the business I work for) only use's USP Grade, and flavorings that are Diacytl-Free (according to the company we buy our flavorings from) but ive recently read an article that tackles just that) - big companys that claim there is no Diketones in there eliquids - when they indeed do have Diketones. 7/10 seven out of ten of the company's they checked into, actually did in fact contain diketones when they specifically stated that they don't - I even heard one of the most trusted vendors claimed they had no diacytl/diketones when in fact they had levels of the stuff higher than that of cigarettes !!
yikes. agree we need regulations - but our government is going a bit over board I think.

So, lets get to the point here..

I need ideas, opinions, and straight up facts from those of you whom were able to read through this whole thing,

Is using flavorless E-Liquid going to help reduce my risks of health related issue in the future?(your honest OPINION - I understand there is not going to be any factual basis for your opinion, or maybe there will be, but time will tell the truth about this)

Is upping my nicotine and lowering my wattage/voltage going to be a better choice for me rather than upping my wattage and decreasing my nicotine?(health wise, in your honest opinion - is more clouds less nicotine a safer choice - or is lower wattage, less clouds, more nicotine better)
-I feel the more clouds, the more potential/possible damage my lungs might be experiencing-

is 4.5-6mg of nicotine O.K for my lungs if used in the 15-20watt Range ?

I find myself taking a hit every few minutes and sometimes holding it in so I don't need another hit so fast.

I do realize we don't absorb nicotine the same way we would if we were to smoke a cigarette, and I'm almost positive that's why I'm vaping so much more - to try and fulfil the nicotine absorb I was getting with cigarettes.


Does the answer to my questions lye in a different Sub Ohm tank ?
Does the answer to my questions rely on the type of eliquid I vape?
is there a DIY Recipe for the single most known safest eliquid I can vape?
Should I be avoiding flavorings so I can safely enjoy my vape without worry or concern?
Like I said, we've got an ISO-7 Certified clean room down stairs I can have my partner use to mix or whip me up a batch of ejuice with any recipe I desire, so if anybody has any insight or knowledge in this area - please feel free to speak up. you donw have to answer these questions about that ive stated - but I would like to relief from my concerns, as the added weight on my shoulders from vaping is driving me nuts - almost to the point where I'm going to just quit vaping all together - and I certainly don't want to start smoking again , thinking well hell, atleast when I was smoking I wasn't thinking about the side effects as much as I was ewhen I was vaping. when I vape, I just see huge clouds and I think - those clouds have to outweigh or at least be similar to the damage I'm causing inside my lungs/body. Maybe its big tobacco putting this fear and scare in me - I don't know forsure at this point - because my brain is trained in a way I suppose. whatever the case may be, I need some help and relief from this burdon I'm carrying around. I can hardly even enjoy myself anymore - the way I vape - when alone or around others - at the end of the day when its just me - I still think the same thing - worried.

Thanks everybody, and yes I will continue to vape no matter what - screw cigarettes - just looking for relief and help or maybe advise from others.
 
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AmandaD

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Welcome!

Wow...wall of text there.

All I can say is that for those of us that smoked for any length of time vaping is harm reduction. Nobody knows the long term effects, but we're pretty sure they're less than smoking cigarettes.
 

brian435baer

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"Nobody knows the long term effect, but we're PRETTY SURE they're less than smoking cigarettes"

that's the part that I seem to hear about in every different way its possible to be passed along the web.

its used in many different ways, but ultimately its all the same - "we're unsure, but we think its safer" - that's the part that scares and confuse me.

and I'm sure this is FDA approved - funded by big tobacco - CIA-like tactics.
 

Larry J

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There was the major British study (sorry, I don't have the link handy) which showed that vaping is 95% safer than cigarettes, which led to the NHS (National Health Service, which provides health care to every Brit) to begin recommending e-cigarettes as a safer alternative to smoking. That said, the safest thing to inhale into your lungs is CLEAN air (if you can find some anymore).
 

AmandaD

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Nobody can give you an exact answer - vaping just hasn't been around long enough for long-term studies.

But as you're in a vaping forum it's likely that everyone here thinks it's safer than smoking cigarettes.

However, as I said to my teenager, the only thing going into your lungs should be fresh air!
 

Heabob

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Just using a little bit of logic I'd say, the fewer "things" you put in your juice, the fewer the possible health problems later on.
So eliminating flavorings is a viable option IMO.
But that's just an assumption at this point really.
Or maybe even by using way less flavoring by using stronger brands may help?
But if it becomes less enjoyable, or fulfilling, is there even a slim chance you'll go back to smoking?
Questions beget more questions I'm afraid.
Bottom line is, it's still safer than smoking IMO.
 

Huckleberried

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Whew. As has been said already, we simply don't know the long term affects. The fact that most of us started feeling better after putting down cigarettes while vaping says a lot, imo. I'm not a dr, we can't say what the effects will be. Do I think we should worry? Not as much as if we were still smoking.
 

soulshine

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Yeah, as the otherd have said...you won't get the concrete answer you are looking for. Think about it, if anybody knew all of the facts and had the crystal ball to see the future, don't you think that "irrefutable proof" would have been presented before these Draconian regulations were finalized? Hell, that latest study out of the EU that said that people would be fools not to recognize the potential in our products was published before the FDA regs and they paid no attention whatsoever. Do we know if vaping will kill us? No. Are we about 99.99999999% POSITIVE that it will help us live longer than if we continued to smoke cigarettes...YES. Your only option to be 100% is to stop everything altogether. The reason you were getting "the same answer in different forms" is because that's all we know at this point.

Working for an eliquid company, you should be well aware of diactyl, AP and the other "bad ingredients". Yes, you will hear lots of "experts" who tell horror stories about "what they found in eliquid". Science can be manipulated to have the numbers show what you want them to show. A good example, when they "test liquids"...most times when they tell you all the bad stuff that was found. What they don't tell you is they used a machine that took 15 second draws and didn't account for burning cotton when the tank was dry. Now anybody that has ever had a dry hit will agree with me....you don't know what the hell that was, but you just don't ever want it to happen again...LOL That's really where the possibility of dangerous stuff exists IMO and mostly where they come up with "unusually high amounts of whatever they are trying to scare you with were found.
 

PuffOn

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If it helps, my cardiologist was happy to learn I quit smoking and started vaping.
 

f1r3b1rd

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I cant answer your questions, I'm not a doctor, nor a chemist or helath professional in any way.

what I can do is give you my personal experience and hopefully a brief synopsis of my journey.
I started vaping about 2.5 years ago. I was a 2 pack a day smoker for over 20 years, so I started at 18mg, on a pen. 2 month later I upgraded to an mtl rba and downgraded my nic to 12mg. 4 months after this, I discovered wattage and mechanicals, and got into DL vaping wit rdas and dropped to 6mg, and a few months after that 3mg.
last November I got the flu horribly bad, and couldn't really vape so I stopped. completely. I didn't vape for almost 3 months. I then had a lung xray, and was told by resident pulmonologist that my lungs are as clear as a non-smoker.

since then I did start vaping zero nic from time to time, but strictly for the enjoyment of the hobby. I was a chef for 23 years and now work with circuit design, so vaping really hits all my nerd points.
as to the flavored topic... if you've ever had jiffy pop you've breathed in more dicetones opening the popcorn bag than a life time full of vaping- so send me your custards.
 

UncleRJ

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Wow, what a lot to go through and at the same time thanks for sharing!

Me, I can only speak about me.

I started vaping many, many moons ago to try to get away from smoking.

At the time I was a.......

d459bb805d41012ee3bd00163e41dd5b


And I started vaping at 36mg of nic.

Now I am down to 3mg, the next stop is 1.5mg and then to the big magic ZERO

But I will still want vape.

I have always been about flavor.

While I can generate huge clouds (hey I had to try it a few times in the privacy of my own home) I like to keep my vaping near invisible in public and I am quite good at it.

IMHO, generating huge clouds in public (other than at a vape meet)......................Is......................Well words escape me to fully express what an idiot move it is. A lady vaper might suggest that you are trying to make up for lacking in some other area.

We want to be a part of society not an extra irritant to the public at large.

Granted that we all know that vaping is a lot better than smoking a piece of brush from your neighbors yard that their dog has just pissed on. Aka my comparison to tobacco that R.J. Reynolds has added the piss from your neighbors dog to along with God knows what else, but still not as good as fresh air.

And I live in a rural area and one of my neighbors down the road keeps some hogs so I get a "Wiff" of that from time to time and most likely still better than vaping.

If you exorcise some common sense, do what feels right, makes you feel good and avoid pissing off non-smoking, non-vaping folk and all will be well with the world.
 

Elites

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There was the major British study (sorry, I don't have the link handy) which showed that vaping is 95% safer than cigarettes, which led to the NHS (National Health Service, which provides health care to every Brit) to begin recommending e-cigarettes as a safer alternative to smoking. That said, the safest thing to inhale into your lungs is CLEAN air (if you can find some anymore).

Are you referening to this link https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...armful-than-tobacco-estimates-landmark-review ?

Beside Clean Air (lucky one who find it) one another way to be SAFE is DO NOT SMOKE OR VAPE.

Oh BTW I LIKE VAPING more compare to that shit smoking :D
 

soulshine

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Are you referening to this link https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...armful-than-tobacco-estimates-landmark-review ?

Beside Clean Air (lucky one who find it) one another way to be SAFE is DO NOT SMOKE OR VAPE.

Oh BTW I LIKE VAPING more compare to that shit smoking :D

No it's more recent by the Royal College of Physicians. Here's a link to the story in the Daily Caller.

http://dailycaller.com/2016/05/02/medical-group-representing-32000-doctors-backs-vaping/

Edit: Here is a link to the study. I got it off of Greg Conley's twitter:

https://www.rcplondon.ac.uk/projects/outputs/nicotine-without-smoke-tobacco-harm-reduction-0
 

lirruping

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for those of us that smoked for any length of time vaping is harm reduction. Nobody knows the long term effects, but we're pretty sure they're less than smoking cigarettes.

"Nobody knows the long term effect, but we're PRETTY SURE they're less than smoking cigarettes"
that's the part that I seem to hear about in every different way its possible to be passed along the web.
its used in many different ways, but ultimately its all the same - "we're unsure, but we think its safer" - that's the part that scares and confuse me.

There's also the fact of personal and anecdotal experience, which is rapidly mounting as people continue to vape and continue to FEEL BETTER than they did while smoking. No, it's not a scientific study (funded by your friendly local gigantic pharmaceutical company or gov branch withitsownagenda), but for my money, the disappearance of smoker's cough, increased ability to breath and move/exercise--these things speak loudly in favor of vaping as harm reduction.
 

lirruping

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Is using flavorless E-Liquid going to help reduce my risks of health related issue in the future?


I might have missed something, but I've yet to see serious concerns raised about vaping PG/VG/nic. Maybe that's simply because nobody's following that particular line of inquiry--I mean, if someone vapes, it is likely they add flavors into the mix.

Still, a common-sense approach tells us that the fewer ingredients in your e-liquid, the fewer chances for harmful effect. Therefore, yes, vaping straight VG, PG, or some combination of these with nicotine, will be "safer", on the whole, than vaping flavorings.
 

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