Okie dokie. So my batteries have a supposed 30 amp limit. Does that mean, despite having 4 of said batteries in series, I need to make sure I stay below that 30 amp load (-15%)?
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You are getting 16v and thats not what you asked for, I would contact the modder. We don't know what type of board is in your mod so can't give a definitive answer as to if its remotely safe or not at .3 ohms. Best guess would be 'probably not' with 4 x 18650s in series.
You should never trust the supposed amp limit of the batteries. Trust only the amp ratings verified and tested by Mooch. The 15 percent safety rule normally applies to two batteries connected in parallel, as it addresses the imbalance between the two batteries with regards to battery safety in such a battery configuration. The "8.4 volts pair of batteries" that I was referring to is only a simplification... think of the pair as a single battery that supplies twice the voltage of a single battery. (The reality is that they are still two separate batteries, albeit they have been connected in series so the volts of one battery is summed with that of the other battery in the pair.)
The only way to can get injured is charging the Lipo..... It needs to be charged in a fire rated bag....
If one of the lipo cells gets unbalanced in the lipo pack and you charge the lipo without proper balancing..... It will explode...... And catch your place in fire......
I Charge mine here..... This is a 1000°f degree fireproof bag......
Sent from my Z981 using Tapatalk
Mikhail Naumov
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I exclusively vape using 3S and 4S lipos, mostly 4S lipos. So I'm VERY familiar with 16.8V mods. Like I said, if the board can RMS your power output, you can adjust it down so low that quad series will only serve to have more potential power. If it's a standard 555 timer setup PWM with a regular ass duty cycle (if you can hear ANY buzz/hum when firing, it's definitely NOT RMS. RMS PWM operates on frequencies outside of the range of human hearing) with a 4S your lowest output will be about 10V, which is a fuck ton of power for most people. Also 18650's aren't super high drain batteries, not when compared to Lipo's, LiFePO4's and 20700's/21700's. So pushing shit tons of power out of them is generally not a good idea.
Also no, your batteries cannot handle 80A in series like that. Since PWM is applying full voltage, it's drawing full amperage. There is no buck conversion like on a DNA that has your output amperage higher than your input amperage, BUT, and it's a big but. BUT, since that full voltage is being switched on and off at varying rates, it's like a pulsed pulse amperage draw. Vaping is already a pulse circuit, so when you pulse a pulse circuit, the amount of amperage you can draw will obviously go up.
Batteries don't have amperage limits, that's just a calculation. They DO have temperature limits, too hot and they go into thermal runaway (venting). So keep this in mind, I would still advise sticking to the limits of your batteries, but the more voltage you apply to a stagnant resistance, the less amperage draw is required to hit a stagnant power level. Combine this with the switching action of PWM and the natural pulse amperage draw of vaping, you'll find that you can push PWM mods a bit harder than you can other mods. NOT like a DC-DC Buck converter though, that's an entirely different system and requires different calculations. I'm by no means saying DC-DC Buck is superior to PWM, I love PWM over every other type of vaping circuit, but they all have advantages and disadvantages.
I'm just waiting for AC to hit vaping and fuck it up. Not to be a typical Serbian (shout out to the only famous Serb homeboy, Tesla) and bitch moan over AC, but I honestly do not like AC. It definitely has no place in vaping right now as far as I'm concerned.
Please stop touting Mooch's tests as if he is god himself. He is just an electrical engineer, so am I. More importantly, he is a human being. They make mistakes, we all do. Also, not every battery is identical, not every test goes the same and not every end result will match up. I am not discrediting Mooch by ANY means, the man is brilliant and serves as an inspiration to me. I just think people need to stop eating up every word he says about batteries. Any dunce with an oscilloscope, a test load rig, a temperature measuring device and basic electrical knowledge can run the tests he does.
Make your own conclusions based on your own tests. There are too many variables in play to simply take one man's word for everything, this applies to me as well. When we begin to trust one source for all of our information, our minds atrophy and misinformation spreads. Nobody is right 100% of the time and not everything is set in stone.
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Thank you so much for the info. When I first fired the mod I listened to see if there was any hum, as I have read that PWM boards make an audible noise, but I could not hear anything. Even dry firing coils, without any crackle of an atty firing, there's no noise. Hopefully it's the more advanced PWM board you mentioned (RMS or what have you). I've contacted the modder to inform him of his error and to get more technical specs on the mod; hopefully I can come back with more info soon.
Thanks to everyone for the help, I'm really glad this community exists so that guys like me (read: no formal mechanical education) can still have fun an experiment with cool shit. Y'all rock.
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The only way to can get injured is charging the Lipo..... It needs to be charged in a fire rated bag....
If one of the lipo cells gets unbalanced in the lipo pack and you charge the lipo without proper balancing..... It will explode...... And catch your place in fire......
I Charge mine here..... This is a 1000°f degree fireproof bag......
Sent from my Z981 using Tapatalk
I straight the fuck up had a lipo swell in one of those and the sealed bag ended up making it worse. The heat built up inside the bag, only having a small hole to escape through, causing the venting process to get much worse, very quickly.
Still, in practice, those are a good idea to use. Lipo's fuck up 90% of the time while either charging or sitting in storage, rarely whilst in use.
RMS = Root Mean Square.
It's probably a Big Al board, namely the iPWM or the Silent PWM. The Silent PWM is just an iPWM without the i, no commands or features outside of the actual PWM circuit. He also has an Ant board. I love that fucking thing, makes building in 1590A's and 1550P's a breeze, not much bigger than a potentiometer is and it can push up to 1,100W/50A, 2S-6S input. Though I doubt this was the board used, as it's fairly new and isn't often used outside of compact mods.
There's also the Gunstar Mods PWM board, but it's a basic 555 PWM setup, only with all the parts already soldered to a PCB for you, saves time. Big Al's boards take the PWM circuit to a new level, with straight up timerless boards.
If your mod has lock/unlock features and shit, it's an iPWM. If not, and if it has a little switch on the board itself, it's a Silent PWM. If neither, it's not a Big Al's. The only other RMS board on the market that people use is the NLPWM, and you would know if you had one as it is HUGE, pointlessly so, and uses + and - buttons opposed to a potentiometer dial for power adjustment.
If your mod has a volt meter, and I assume it does, AND it registers output power, turn the pot down to 0% (WITH an atomizer/load attached, with no load it'll display a way higher voltage than it would actually fire at) and see what it says. If you're around 0.4-0.8V, it's RMS. If it's 9-10.5V, it's a straight up old school 555 duty cycle circuit. It also could be one of the older Voltrove Micro PWM boards. The Micro PWM has a V1, V2, V2.1 and Tiny version, so if it's a Micro PWM it could be fucking any given version.
Modders have these options for regulating mods:
Big Al's Lipo iPWM (2S-6S) (60A), Big Al's iPWM (2S-4S) (60A), Big Al's Silent Lipo PWM (2S-6S) (60A), Big Al's Silent PWM (2S-4S) (60A), Big Al's Ant PWM (2S-6S) (50A) and Big Al's OKL-T20 (2S-3S) (20A)
Gunstar Mods PWM board (2S-4S) (45A)
Voltrove Micro PWM V1, V2, V2.1 and Tiny versions (2S-4S) (45A)
Voltrove NLPWM (2S-6S) (60A)
Old school 555 timer circuit PWM mods (2S-4S) (45A)
OKR T-10 10A 50W (1S) (10A)
OKL T-20 20A 100W (2S) (20A)
Raptor 60W (1S) (10A)
Raptor 120W (2S) (20A)
Raptor 200W (2S) (40A)
Raptor 300W (3S) (60A)
Delta 400W (3S) (80A)
Evolv DNA200/250 (2S-3S) (55A)
Evolv DNA 60/75/75C (1S) (30A)
Evolv DNA 20/30/40 (1S) (10-20A)
Yihi SX 550 (2S) (40A)
Yihi SX350J/SX350J-V2/SX450J (1S-3S) (20A-40A)
Whatever the hell is in the Hex Ohm V3 (2S) (30A) (Not available to modders)
This is not 100% all inclusive, but it's a map of 95% if not more of regulated custom mod options. If you have a custom built regulated mod, chances are one of the regulators I just listed is powering it.
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I just took a look, it says Big Al on it. I don't know if it registers output power, but I'll check that out in a moment. I think it's the Silent, because it doesn't include any unlock/lock features or anything fancy like that.
It's registering the output I believe, but it seems to switch between .8 and 1.x-2.x as I hold it down. Not sure if I set it wrong or something (put it to 0, not past the 0 to the edge. I'm new to using the pot, first time). Also, the potentiometer is kinda a bitch to use. I have to take a pair of tweezers to move it, my fingernails are too big for the tiny little slot on it haha
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That's 100% normal. Nothing out of the ordinary. Take a flat head and insert it into the pot nick and dial it from 0 to 100 10-15 times. This will loosen the dial and make it much easier to turn, newer pots are damned near impossible to turn with your nail.
It's either a Silent or iPWM from Big Al. If there's a switch on the board it's a silent PWM. Hit the fire button twice, and the second time you press it, hold it down. If instead of firing it displays the input battery voltage for 4-5 seconds, it's an iPWM. If not, it's a Silent PWM.
It's either a Silent or iPWM from Big Al. If there's a switch on the board it's a silent PWM. Hit the fire button twice, and the second time you press it, hold it down. If instead of firing it displays the input battery voltage for 4-5 seconds, it's an iPWM. If not, it's a Silent PWM.
I'm not seeing any switch, and the two press thing didn't do more than fire the mod. I think its the Silent one. Thanks again for all the help, wouldve been damn near impossible to figure out on my own. While I'm here, since you do custom mods, are you able to make squonkers with 2 - 3 18650s or a 3s lipo? Just wondering, I don't see many options for powerful squonks out there and I really want one.
ok im confused
i know series adds the volts and not the amps
but on the xohmuniverse website for the dimebox it saws the PWM model is 336 w, 8.4v 40amp
I have two of these
The led only tells you the voltage of the battery
2 fully charge 18650s register at 8.4
so it should be a series mod
but the only way to hit 336watts at 8.4 volts is at 40 amps
There are no 40amp batteries
SO what do those specs actually mean????
i know series adds the volts and not the amps
but on the xohmuniverse website for the dimebox it saws the PWM model is 336 w, 8.4v 40amp
I have two of these
The led only tells you the voltage of the battery
2 fully charge 18650s register at 8.4
so it should be a series mod
but the only way to hit 336watts at 8.4 volts is at 40 amps
There are no 40amp batteries
SO what do those specs actually mean????
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It means the chip is more capable then the batteries. Put it thus way a car may be able to go 200mph but it doesn't mean it's safe to go that fast. Its just specs to sell. Treat it like an unregulated mod. I personally use sony vtc5a batts and build around .35 and turn the pot to about 80
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Some bullshit estimate, most likely. The amperage rating could be based on the regulator itself or a specific part, and there's plenty of 40A batteries. 20700's/21700's are getting up into 40A territory, and Lipo's can handle hundreds of amps. Though if you mean 18650's, no there are no 40A cont 18650's. Though as I said, we use pulse draws, so 40A could still be safely used with 18650's.
The way they 'rate' most PWM boards is by taking the lowest build it can handle at the highest power, finding out that exact wattage, then that's the power they rate it at.
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Take this to PM I don't want to get slapped for discussing sales outside of my approved thread.
Also, the switch will be on the side of the board. It's VERY small, if it's a Silent PWM it will be an on/off switch. If there's no switch and it's not an iPWM, then it's an Ant.
I am not touting Mooch's tests as if he is god himself. He is just the only person I know who does these tests AND who makes their results available to the general public for free, and also he does them in such a way that their results are highly reliable. The fact that both his CDR and MVA ratings are based on operating temperature should be trivial, and, no, I am not saying this to bitch at you or anything like that. Anyone who can't already understand the importance of temperature of the batteries should not be modding stuff, nor even should be using something like a Surric X Vault mod. (The user manual of the Surric clearly states don't use it if you aren't an advanced user.) Not very long ago I was put on a forum member's ignore list for simply pointing out the fact that batteries can still run warmer than the ideal temperature due to the set of circumstances that define how you use the batteries, such as hot weather conditions and chain vaping, just to name only a few examples. If some people will be this hard headed when it comes to applying simple rules of battery safety, then is it really any wonder that the FDA wants to see these devices banned for eternity? I hope this very clearly demonstrates how I make my own conclusions, and why.
It simply means you don't understand the difference of CDR (Continuous Discharge Rating) versus pulsing the batteries (which is what PWM does, as does letting them rest in between puffs...).
So PWM lets you effectively use the pulse amp discharge rating (assuming you believe the rating on the battery/from Mooch)? That answers a lot.
No, pulse ratings are useless. If you believe the manufacturer's rating accidents WILL happen, but you can go above the CDR (the one and only real CDR, not the pixi/unicorn dust version of the CDR...) because the "C" in CDR stands for Continuous, whereas when you vape you don't press and hold the fire button for much longer than just a couple seconds tops, and, yes, the "P" in PWM does stand for Pulse so it's not continuous in any way. Mooch also uses the term Max Vaping Amps (MVA) to rate different batteries, it is a rating that's based on the fact you can still put down the mod and run like hell to save your ass in the event something goes terribly wrong with the mod. That is, if you don't go too far above the MVA you will have that little bit of time that you require to be able to still save your ass from getting burned.
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The things you are saying.. are wrong. Very wrong. Pulse ratings are NOT useless, we vape using pulse throws.
This is why I tell people not to live by Mooch, it leads to this destructive ass mindset. I'm not going to argue with you, but you're tossing out misinformation like a motherfucker.
MVA is a 100% BULLSHIT number he comes up with based on an estimate. AN ESTIMATE. You cannot realistically use estimates in electronics and expect them to universally work. THIS IS NOT HOW ELECTRONICS WORKS.
Wanna know why modders used undersized wire gauges? Because of pulse throws, because we only use a few inches as opposed to the SEVERAL FEET that they rate. THINGS LIKE THIS are what I mean. YOU CANNOT use universal ratings and limits on electronic parts, as from an application to application basis, even in the same field, things can vary VASTLY.
And the FDA, what they're doing, has jack shit all to do with batteries and everything to do with BT, BP and BG pressuring them to do it. The FDA has no authority over fucking electronics. I didn't pay for an education in electrical engineering to get told to go listen to Mooch every time some dunce who has no real electrical knowledge of their own has their world view destroyed. Also chain vaping doesn't change it from continuous to pulse, CONTINUOUS IS FUCKING CONTINUOUS, IT DOESN'T STOP. Unless you can seriously tell me you're taking 10 second + hits back to back ALL day, which nobody fucking is, you're not using continuous draws. Ever, period, end of story. VAPING DOES NOT USE CONTINUOUS THROWS. An RC Drone is an example of a continuous drain, or a flashlight. A vape mod that is NOT in use most of the time, is NOT a continuous application. Now, you are right about amperage ratings being off from manufacturer's, but this is because batteries have TEMP limits, not amp limits. The test settings people like Samsung/Sony use are VERY different than those Mooch are using, I can guarantee this.
Mooch's tests, his ratings, they're all low end estimates. Why? Safety, because he figures mostly noobs and such are the people reading his tests because MOST people who genuinely care would test it themselves and apply their findings to what they do based off of VARIABLES in play there. This one size fits all mindset is HARMFUL.
STOP.
If you're battery/electronics illiterate, the MVA numbers and such CAN be of use to you. But if you've been vaping years and have a decent knowledge of electronics, it will only serve to pigeon hole you into a corner. Variables matter, and NO test can get all of them, or even half.
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wow lively discussion
lets remember to be civil.
Im trying to follow and learn here. Not sure its working since I have 0 background in electronics
Let me see if I get this
Batteries lets use the lg hg2 as our example
LG says its CDR is 20amp and mooch says its MVA is 20amp also
so this is not really how many amps you can draw from it
It is the manufacturer saying that above 20 amps under continuous use the battery chemistry will heat up to a point that it may vent or explode or something bad will happen?
IS that correct?
If it is then my question is how do manufacturers like LG define continuous use? Is there an industry standard of x seconds or minutes?
because if say LG defines continuous use as say 5 minutes then that would mean drawing 30 or 40 amps from it for 5 seconds is reasonably safe correct?
lets remember to be civil.
Im trying to follow and learn here. Not sure its working since I have 0 background in electronics
Let me see if I get this
Batteries lets use the lg hg2 as our example
LG says its CDR is 20amp and mooch says its MVA is 20amp also
so this is not really how many amps you can draw from it
It is the manufacturer saying that above 20 amps under continuous use the battery chemistry will heat up to a point that it may vent or explode or something bad will happen?
IS that correct?
If it is then my question is how do manufacturers like LG define continuous use? Is there an industry standard of x seconds or minutes?
because if say LG defines continuous use as say 5 minutes then that would mean drawing 30 or 40 amps from it for 5 seconds is reasonably safe correct?
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What that means, is when the cells (HG2's) are being discharged at a rate OVER 20A, it will stress the battery to the point of heating up to its thermal runaway (venting) point. But WHEN this will happen and HOW LONG it takes is, a bit harder to figure out. No battery will ever match up 100% to another one, even if it's the same type of cell by the same company. Also, our calculations via Ohm's Laws calculators are never 100% correct as things like volt meters, screens or etc. ARE not capable of a 100% accuracy rating. Then you have things like voltage drop, battery sag.. VARIABLES. How far you can go over the amperage rating DEPENDS on things like how long you're firing it, the batteries themselves, the wiring and parts resistance, SO MANY THINGS are plugged in here. That is why universal, all inclusive ratings simply do not work.
CDR is usually 10 seconds or greater, though you do have some misinformed people screaming 5 seconds or greater. I like to go in the middle, I consider it 8 seconds or greater, but as I said universal ratings don't work and this is no exception here. The point is, unless you're chain vaping taking 10 second hits every time and NOT stopping for a period of 10 minutes plus, you're never putting a continuous draw on the batteries.
I am being civil, I could be discussing teddy bears and still have this tone. I am an asshole. I never denied this.
CDR is usually 10 seconds or greater, though you do have some misinformed people screaming 5 seconds or greater. I like to go in the middle, I consider it 8 seconds or greater, but as I said universal ratings don't work and this is no exception here. The point is, unless you're chain vaping taking 10 second hits every time and NOT stopping for a period of 10 minutes plus, you're never putting a continuous draw on the batteries.
I am being civil, I could be discussing teddy bears and still have this tone. I am an asshole. I never denied this.
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We vape using pulse throws, but we don't rate our batteries by vaping. Nor do we have a standard answer to the question of what the pulse pattern should be like if we want our pulse test to be representative of how we vape.
I don't tell people to live by Mooch either. And neither does Mooch himself, for that matter... So if you're not going to argue, then why are you arguing? Let me take a well educated guess. Is it because you love to spread misinformation?
MVA is not even based on electronics. Rather, it is based on thermodynamics and electrochemistry in conjunction with a careful guesstimate of how human anatomy and reflexes determines the speed at which the average vaper can run away after he/she notices a battery has started to vent.
Mooch has always been clear on that novice users (and I suppose even some advanced users who like the life of living dangerously I might add... not pointing any fingers here...) use these ratings as a starting point to see how much farther they can take it. More caution is in order exactly BECAUSE things can vary pretty wildly.
It's not that hard to see how those same pressure groups are fueling their smear campaigns against vaping by using the average vaper's demonstrable lack of knowledge about battery safety. As a matter of true fact you could be blind like a bat and still be able to see it from a very far distance.
Perhaps the FDA has no authority over electronics in Serbia, but I live in a country roughly the same size as New York City so I think I understand how a widespread ban on vape related electronics in the U.S. would impact what vaping products will still be commercially available here in Belgium.
I didn't say chain vaping changes it from continuous to pulse. What I did say is chain vaping changes it from not too warm batteries to too warm batteries, albeit this still also depends (on things like, for example, how hot the weather may be in Serbia...).
I, too, figured mostly noobs are the people reading this thread. And, after I saw someone ask about batteries connected in series versus connected in parallel, I figured the same thing once more.
Not sure that you have noticed, but I was replying to a person who clearly IS fucking battery/electronics fucking illiterate.
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LOL.
Serb Serb Serb. That's all I read, real mature. I also no longer live there, so there's that. (Which is listed, proving you don't pay attention.) Also, by blood I'm Ukrainian! Fun how your baseless insults don't work here when you think for five seconds. I've lived in the US since I was 16.
You are a CHILD, and you have no credibility to what you're saying. Go repeat Mooch's words elsewhere, get the fuck out of my thread with your misinformed bullshit.
Enjoy my blocked users list. I'm not bothering to respond to anything you said, as I have almost two thousand posts, two linked guides for different things and a pinned thread on these forums people can go to if they need/want help, and arguing with low IQ try hards is just polluting this thread and isn't going to help anybody. So it's pointless and a waste of time. I'll take my college education over your "but i readz it on the interwebz somwherez guys." any day.
Mudar čovek može da nauči više od glupog pitanja nego što budala može naučiti iz mudrog pitanja. Ali ti moj prijatelj, ništa se ne može naučiti iz reč vi kažete.
You'd do well to not bring my nationality and homeland into a discussion about electronics, you nationalist piece of garbage. At least you showed your true colors to the people reading, maybe now they'll know to avoid what you say because it's filled with bias and misinformation. Also, often following not far behind nationalism is racism, and I wouldn't put that above you either at this point. You brought up me being a Serb and being from Serbia FAR too many times in a post about electronics for me to get ANY other vibe off of what you said, so clearly me being a Serbian is a problem in your eyes. Good. I hope it keeps you fucking awake at night. Chauvinism doesn't look good on anybody and you're no exception. Bye bye!
Serb Serb Serb. That's all I read, real mature. I also no longer live there, so there's that. (Which is listed, proving you don't pay attention.) Also, by blood I'm Ukrainian! Fun how your baseless insults don't work here when you think for five seconds. I've lived in the US since I was 16.
You are a CHILD, and you have no credibility to what you're saying. Go repeat Mooch's words elsewhere, get the fuck out of my thread with your misinformed bullshit.
Enjoy my blocked users list. I'm not bothering to respond to anything you said, as I have almost two thousand posts, two linked guides for different things and a pinned thread on these forums people can go to if they need/want help, and arguing with low IQ try hards is just polluting this thread and isn't going to help anybody. So it's pointless and a waste of time. I'll take my college education over your "but i readz it on the interwebz somwherez guys." any day.
Mudar čovek može da nauči više od glupog pitanja nego što budala može naučiti iz mudrog pitanja. Ali ti moj prijatelj, ništa se ne može naučiti iz reč vi kažete.
You'd do well to not bring my nationality and homeland into a discussion about electronics, you nationalist piece of garbage. At least you showed your true colors to the people reading, maybe now they'll know to avoid what you say because it's filled with bias and misinformation. Also, often following not far behind nationalism is racism, and I wouldn't put that above you either at this point. You brought up me being a Serb and being from Serbia FAR too many times in a post about electronics for me to get ANY other vibe off of what you said, so clearly me being a Serbian is a problem in your eyes. Good. I hope it keeps you fucking awake at night. Chauvinism doesn't look good on anybody and you're no exception. Bye bye!
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Mikhail Naumov
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Original post now has a disclaimer, if you're not here to discuss PWM, please take it the fuck somewhere else. It's clear that ANYTHING else I try to help people with is going to get some fucktard's panties in a twist, so I'm just keeping it strictly about PWM from now on. This is not a fucking battery discussion thread or a dick measuring contest, OR a place to show off your nationalist/racist ideals. Keep it about PWM, I don't want this thread which I created to HELP people getting moved to the Mud Pit due to repeated arguments and off topic posts. Also please keep your fucking misinformation out of this thread, if your only reference is one man and some images of tests he ran, you don't have real references as no one test in any field is all inclusive. Also, I AM AN ASSHOLE passively. My tone and demeanor is not a reflection of anger or dislike, this is genuinely just how I am. If you don't like it, great. This isn't a thread about me.
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Same thing happened mik in a thread I ran funnily enough by same person as well trying to turn into something it wasn't ever meant to be about ...your doing great matey carry on absolutely love this thread so far learnt loads
ok
so since vaping uses pulses
PWM pulses the pulses
lets say a .6 ohm coil on a PWM mod firing the full charge of a 2x 18650s of 8.4
that should at Continuous draw pull ABOUT 14 amps
and regardless of where you set the pot ABOUT 8.4v at about 14 amps is being sent to the coil
The pot simply controls how often the pulsing occurs
Then when you add in all the other variables like the switch, wires, 510, the atty itself, the battery sled, and the PWM board and all its components that 8.4volts and 14 amps is not accurate Those things actually change the amp load on the battery
And even firing the mod for 10 seconds straight,since vaping uses pulses and PWM pulses the pulses, is no where near the same as using the batteries in a circuit like say a light bulb that has the same resistance as the coil for 10 continuous seconds.
While both situations will cause the batteries to heat up. The vaping mod should heat the battery less?
Also I asked before about my dimebox mods specs
8.4volts,336w,40a
That is saying the most the electronics (board,switch,etc) can handle safely. If you try pushing more then 40amps through it the electronics could and probably will fail
And while 2 18650s in series are not likely to be able to supply a 40amp discharge the board was not designed exclusively for 18650s and other batteries could possibly supply 40 amps or more
SO at the electronics highest load and voltage 40amps and 8.4vs you would get 336w and the recommended lowest build of .21 ohms
it is not saying it is wise to build a .21 ohm coil and fire it with 2 18650s in series
So it is important when using a PWM mod is to know your batteries recommended CDR and if you are in parrallel or series and stay within the bounds of your BATTERIES not necessarily your mod
do i have all of this about right?
so since vaping uses pulses
PWM pulses the pulses
lets say a .6 ohm coil on a PWM mod firing the full charge of a 2x 18650s of 8.4
that should at Continuous draw pull ABOUT 14 amps
and regardless of where you set the pot ABOUT 8.4v at about 14 amps is being sent to the coil
The pot simply controls how often the pulsing occurs
Then when you add in all the other variables like the switch, wires, 510, the atty itself, the battery sled, and the PWM board and all its components that 8.4volts and 14 amps is not accurate Those things actually change the amp load on the battery
And even firing the mod for 10 seconds straight,since vaping uses pulses and PWM pulses the pulses, is no where near the same as using the batteries in a circuit like say a light bulb that has the same resistance as the coil for 10 continuous seconds.
While both situations will cause the batteries to heat up. The vaping mod should heat the battery less?
Also I asked before about my dimebox mods specs
8.4volts,336w,40a
That is saying the most the electronics (board,switch,etc) can handle safely. If you try pushing more then 40amps through it the electronics could and probably will fail
And while 2 18650s in series are not likely to be able to supply a 40amp discharge the board was not designed exclusively for 18650s and other batteries could possibly supply 40 amps or more
SO at the electronics highest load and voltage 40amps and 8.4vs you would get 336w and the recommended lowest build of .21 ohms
it is not saying it is wise to build a .21 ohm coil and fire it with 2 18650s in series
So it is important when using a PWM mod is to know your batteries recommended CDR and if you are in parrallel or series and stay within the bounds of your BATTERIES not necessarily your mod
do i have all of this about right?
Hey thanks for explaining that. I kinda had a guess at what PWM was but not really. I gotta ask though and if someone has already asked I'm sorry! Is the Noisy Cricket II-25 a PWM type of device? Here's why I ask:
1.) I hear the audible buzz when I fire it.
2.) I can feel it pulsing when I inhale. It's worse with higher voltage as well
3.) It has a potentiometer
I'm trying to get smart on this stuff and it looks like I have an abundance of info here. Thanks modder foggers
1.) I hear the audible buzz when I fire it.
2.) I can feel it pulsing when I inhale. It's worse with higher voltage as well
3.) It has a potentiometer
I'm trying to get smart on this stuff and it looks like I have an abundance of info here. Thanks modder foggers
Mikhail Naumov
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I'm not holding grudges or anything, but I block people who do shit like that because I know if I continue to see their shitty posts, it'll eventually strike a nerve and cause me to engage them, AGAIN. So I just block them to avoid it.
Anyway..
Pretty much man, though you can account for VDrop and BSag and assume the voltage will be a bit lower, and full voltage is just what their current charge is. 8.4V is only when fully charged, and even then VDrop and BSag can take down quite a bit, around an entire volt. So no that 8.4V/14A calculation isn't accurate, it's an estimate. This is what I was referring to earlier, in electronics things may seem nice and neat on paper, but in practice variables can wildly alter the outcome. PWM is never going to stress the batteries like a DC circuit would, unless you have the pot around 90-100% (100% pot is just an unregulated mod, honestly. It's firing full battery voltage without a timed pulse.).
PWM is a way to get LESS power out of your batteries, not more. This is NOT its only use, but PWM cannot be used to BOOST the power. It only can decrease it via timed pulse signals. At least not the kind of PWM we use in vaping circuits. Boost PWM does exist, but you won't be seeing it on any vape mods. Now SOME mods may SEEM to pulse to boost the power, but this isn't true PWM. This is just the mod doing slow, weak ass pulses to give you a pseudo-power, it's not a true duty-cycle action.
As for your Dimebox, you pretty much got that one down too.
My NC-II never made a noise when I fired it, nor could I feel any pulses. Proper PWM will NEVER result in you 'feeling' the pulse, it's simply too fast of an action. I don't believe the NC-II is a PWM in regulated mode, I'm fairly sure it's just a DC-DC buck converter.
Anyway..
Pretty much man, though you can account for VDrop and BSag and assume the voltage will be a bit lower, and full voltage is just what their current charge is. 8.4V is only when fully charged, and even then VDrop and BSag can take down quite a bit, around an entire volt. So no that 8.4V/14A calculation isn't accurate, it's an estimate. This is what I was referring to earlier, in electronics things may seem nice and neat on paper, but in practice variables can wildly alter the outcome. PWM is never going to stress the batteries like a DC circuit would, unless you have the pot around 90-100% (100% pot is just an unregulated mod, honestly. It's firing full battery voltage without a timed pulse.).
PWM is a way to get LESS power out of your batteries, not more. This is NOT its only use, but PWM cannot be used to BOOST the power. It only can decrease it via timed pulse signals. At least not the kind of PWM we use in vaping circuits. Boost PWM does exist, but you won't be seeing it on any vape mods. Now SOME mods may SEEM to pulse to boost the power, but this isn't true PWM. This is just the mod doing slow, weak ass pulses to give you a pseudo-power, it's not a true duty-cycle action.
As for your Dimebox, you pretty much got that one down too.
Hey thanks for explaining that. I kinda had a guess at what PWM was but not really. I gotta ask though and if someone has already asked I'm sorry! Is the Noisy Cricket II-25 a PWM type of device? Here's why I ask:
1.) I hear the audible buzz when I fire it.
2.) I can feel it pulsing when I inhale. It's worse with higher voltage as well
3.) It has a potentiometer
I'm trying to get smart on this stuff and it looks like I have an abundance of info here. Thanks modder foggers
My NC-II never made a noise when I fired it, nor could I feel any pulses. Proper PWM will NEVER result in you 'feeling' the pulse, it's simply too fast of an action. I don't believe the NC-II is a PWM in regulated mode, I'm fairly sure it's just a DC-DC buck converter.
Didn't mean to stir up so much shit. I appreciate the help. I'm not COMPLETELY battery illiterate, but since I read conflicting info regarding the behavior of amp ratings when batteries are run in series, I figured I'd ask for expert advice. Anywho, I have been enjoying this monstrous box despite its ridiculous voltage - seems fine with the pot turned to 20 or so =)
The lack of relevant publicized data based on industry standards is precisely why I trust only Mooch's ratings, NOT the attention whoring of someone who is genuinely an asshole and who should therefore be genuinely treated as one.
https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/f...i-to-tell-you-what-a-batterys-rating-is.7610/ (and you can find the answers to all your battery questions on Mooch's blog).
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I wire up some of my sleds to XT60's, allowing the customer to plug the sled in or take it out and swap it with a lipo or even another sled. If the modder who made your box did this, you could downgrade to a 3S 18650 or lipo input or even a 2S and probably have a more realistic range for your personal vaping style, but if you like it, you like it. Still, the modder fucked up your mod, that's bad enough on its own and I would say something, not to bitch at them, just so they at least know they made a mistake to prevent future customers from having that same mistake happen to them.
As a modder I can personally assure you that customer feedback overtime molds our ENTIRE process, it's all about what people like and don't like. I've had people ask me to shove lipo batteries that I knew were WAY too big into a small box because my lipo mods include batteries (I don't want people using shitty batteries and creating a hand held bomb, not with my mods containing them at least.) , then it gets to them and they complain even though if they bought a 26650 tube mode and the 26650 battery they got was too big they wouldn't bitch, just go buy a another 26650 battery that fits as they can vary slightly in size. Either way, small things like this leads to a slowly evolving craft where more people are happy and less mistakes happen. No custom box is truly ever 100% flawless, there's always something we can do better, so it's best to tell us what we fucked up.
Oh for sure, I sent the guy an email yesterday. He still hasn't responded, so I think either he's embarassed or doesn't care, which sucks. I'm happy with it and I'm sure I'll find a use for it (it's a monster Hammond box though, it's basically a square). Just need to see if I can't find a way to exploit all that power haha
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Sounds like a 1590C or a 1590BB Hammond box.
I've made some embarrassing mistakes earlier in my modding days, but I always owned up to them and tried to help resolve it the best I could. Your image is everything, so it IS worth it to make it right with customers. Customers mean everything.
I've made some embarrassing mistakes earlier in my modding days, but I always owned up to them and tried to help resolve it the best I could. Your image is everything, so it IS worth it to make it right with customers. Customers mean everything.
You didn't stir up anything. All you did was ask an extremely very important question. Someone didn't like the fact that you did, and he went full apeshit because of it. You be the judge of the true reason why.
ok heres my next question and this is more speculative.
I got my first pwm for weird reasons
I wanted something that when it broke regardless of gov't regs I should be able to find the parts at an electronic website and be able to replace them. Im no engineer but I can handle replicating things and using a soldering iron. And tahst when these dimebox mods caught my eye and places like Big Als
I had the intention of trying to build one then found a dime box brand new for $60 on ebay instead of the usual $150. SO since that was about the same price as the parts I would need but fully assembled by someone more experienced then I, I went for it. I loved it and when vaporbeast was sellling them for about $58 new I bought another.
I truly find these things to be the ultimate device unless you want TC. But I think TC is more a fad then anything
So why don't any of the chinese mod makers who make things with TC and everything else under the hood get into the PWM market.
I dont begrudge any of the mod makers here in the US selling custom PWM mods for $100-250. But if P4Y,SMOK,Kanger,etc were mass producing something like a dimebox I would think it could be had at SIMILAR quality for $50-75 regular sale price.
I have seen a few hexohm clones but personally I think the hexohm is a piss poor design. I mean $190 bucks for that huge ass fire button and no led. My goodness. So Im not interested in the clones that much.
So any opinions on why the mass manufacturers avoid the PWM market.
I got my first pwm for weird reasons
I wanted something that when it broke regardless of gov't regs I should be able to find the parts at an electronic website and be able to replace them. Im no engineer but I can handle replicating things and using a soldering iron. And tahst when these dimebox mods caught my eye and places like Big Als
I had the intention of trying to build one then found a dime box brand new for $60 on ebay instead of the usual $150. SO since that was about the same price as the parts I would need but fully assembled by someone more experienced then I, I went for it. I loved it and when vaporbeast was sellling them for about $58 new I bought another.
I truly find these things to be the ultimate device unless you want TC. But I think TC is more a fad then anything
So why don't any of the chinese mod makers who make things with TC and everything else under the hood get into the PWM market.
I dont begrudge any of the mod makers here in the US selling custom PWM mods for $100-250. But if P4Y,SMOK,Kanger,etc were mass producing something like a dimebox I would think it could be had at SIMILAR quality for $50-75 regular sale price.
I have seen a few hexohm clones but personally I think the hexohm is a piss poor design. I mean $190 bucks for that huge ass fire button and no led. My goodness. So Im not interested in the clones that much.
So any opinions on why the mass manufacturers avoid the PWM market.
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My first thought would be most of the PWM mods I've seen mentioned so far in this thread require a level of user knowledge and a potential PR disaster if used incorrectly... the mass produced stuff is pretty noob friendly multiple failsafe features with wattage on the screen as opposed to voltage or a potentiometer with no idea what it's doing they build for the masses rather than the niche
...also I was under the impression the hexohm was a fully regulated device? Or have I missed something
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My best guess is because the majority of people like fancy screens and features. Look at all the good VV mods we have and they don't sell at all (tesla invader 3, dovpo M VV, ijoy Zenith) PWM would only be interesting to people who like mechs and a lot of people who like mechs like the simplicity and the fact it doesn't have a chip that can fail. so it's kinda a niche
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V3 is full on regulated and not PWM at all. it gave a wave signal when hooked up to the oscilloscope and not a square one like PWM is.
I'm not familiar with the OKL raptor chip they used in the V2
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Dammit back to grey area again just when I think I've got that mod I get confused by it again yeah meant the V3 Sorry
so my understanding is it will not allow past 6v it won't fire below 3v
0 pot =3v
100 pot = 6v
Do you calculate max amp draw on the full 6v like an unregulated mod or at 3v like a regulated mod?
Edit: didn't see what SRR just posted before I replied and was quite happy with that explaination lol for the love of whatever diety you believe in can we settle this one once and for all pleeeease
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The OKL T-20 and 20A NAOS Raptor are two different boards, in my opinion NAOS makes better shit but the OKL's/OKR's tend to be easier to wire up without a potato board as an addon.
I have his ass ignored, so anything he's saying is sailing right into my blind spot if it's directed at me, so if he's truly that interested in wasting his worthless time, block him too.
3V-6V is the buck range for the OKL, and yes you calculate for the full power you have it adjusted to.
As far as why PWM isn't popular, it USED to be. The ProVari had RMS down to a science, but they refused to keep up with the market and tanked. KingPin also had a good point, PWM mods require a bit more user knowledge than something with a screen and wattage buttons to make people feel safe and comfy. So a lot of people avoid anything without a screen.
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Thanks for the info. I never bothered with them because of the 20 amp output limit of the hexohm.
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Fucking SAME. I could never bother with a 20A mod. Raptor does make a 40A and 60A board though. Delta makes an 80A board. Too bad all of them are an absolute PITA to wire up without a potato board addon as it's literally NOTHING but unlabeled pins. LOTS of them. Like 12-15.
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LMAO i don't need quite that much. 30-40 is fine for me. 20 is just too low. IIRC the hexohm V2 also had a 110 watt limit meaning it wouldn't even power a large majority of my builds and attys. it would only be good for my single coil ones mostly
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Actually the OKL-T20 is rated for 100W/20A, the 110W is an overestimate from CV and I'm not sure why they chose to do it. I assume it's due to the fact you CAN push the boards a bit harder than they're rated for, but it's a craps shoot as you never know if it's truly gonna damage anything. I've had a Hex V2 up to around 140W and it never quit, but it wasn't for a long period of time. At the same time, I had a friend push his up to around 115-120W and it fried the board in five minutes. It's just a countdown until a resistor pops or a fuse blows at that point.
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Dam lol. yeah doesn't sound like a great mod. Not sure why it got so much hype. glad i never got one
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I mean for what they are, they're nice. They were popular back in a time when 150W was about the most powerful output retail regulated mods could offer, so 100W (or 110W) was enough for a good number of people. For an OKL-T20 mod, the Hex was OKAY. Nice, but just OKAY. It was in a Hammond, complete with a lean and exposed magnets. No volt meter either. The V3 was a definite improvement but I still think there's some kinks to work out. It's a bit too basic for the price in my opinion, as I build iPWM mods for cheaper than most Hex Ohm V3's are. The original Hex Ohm V1 with the OKR-T10 10A/50W chip was absolute CRAP though.
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I paid like 45 for my hexohm v3 clone and it has a volt meter and was well worth the money. I don't think i'd pay the 180 for one though. I'd rather get a custom PWM for that kind of money
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What board do the V3 clones use? I've always wondered, since it obviously can't be the proprietary board CV uses and it wouldn't make sense to cram another 20A board into a 'V3' Hex. I like the splatter paint and meters on the clones.