I'm a slow learner..is this correct?

[Matty Vapes]

Still some confusion on the battery thing..I found this statement at another forum and I'm hoping it's true so I can get on with my life lol

"In laymans terms if you have a 25r/He4/vtc4/5/NSX set of cells powering any regulated mod you can go to whatever wattage you like. Unless you're chain vaping at 200w. Don't do that. It's bad for your vocal chords."


....
I have an Alien 220 w Samsung 25R's can I just let'er rip or what?

 

[Mattp169]

well its sort of right and sort of not
let me try to explain
on a regulated mod
you take the wattage and divide by the volts in your actual batteries then divide by mod efficiency

so lets take 200 watts divide by fully charge batteries and assume eff. of 90%
that =26.something AMPS
so at full battery charge some 25rs will be OK for a few pulls at 200 watts. but they are going to start warming up fast which is bad and will cause venting

BUT as you take puffs at 200 watts your voltage is decreasing

so run that again at 8.2V and we are over 27 amps

at 8V your almost at 28 amps

now 25rs are rated at 20amp CDR mooch says they are more like 18CDR Can you pulse them for a few seconds here and there with time to cool off at 28 amps SURE. put if you are constantly requiring them to fire above their CDR they will over heat

so lets say now you have run your batteries down very carefully with out venting them at 200watts
and now your near low voltage cutoff or when the mod says batteries are just about dead
that is normally between 6 and 6.4 V
so 200/6/.9
And you are pulling almost 38amps NOT GOOD

so you should always calculate what you are using amp wise based off your low voltage cutoff 6V is a reasonable number to use with most mods but some may go a hair lower or higher.

so lets reverse the math using 20amp CDR for 25rs
20x.9x6=108
so 108 watts should never push your batteries past 20 amps
but lets say you like 120
120/6/.9 thats 22.2 amps not bad at all unless your really firing those things non stop or using it heavily at low voltage cut off
plus your mod may be 95% efficient which changes the numbers

at full charge of 8.4V with 90% eff. you are under 16amps

and if your battery cuts off at 6.4 instead of 6 your still below 21 amps at 90% eff,

SO it depends on the efficieny of the mod and how charged your batteries are to determine how many amps you are pulling based off you watts

SO the short answer to your question is. Yeah they are technically right, but it depends on several variables how safe it is to do.

regulated mods are not 100% safe they have saftey features in them but if you push your batteries too hard for too long the battery will vent. Just because the mod lets you do it, doesnt mean you should

i mean personally I care less about 200 watts or even 100 watts
if my mods ever go past 60 its cuz i hit a button by accident

 

[Mattp169]

if you want to try your mod at 200 watts etc go for it. CDR means CONTINUAL DISCHARGE RATING. vaping pulses. and even with my above examples trying 200 watts out for some puffs is not going to blow a fully charged set of 25rs
Now if you want to constantly vape at above 120watts you should get 30amp batteries or a 3 cell mod

 

[Matty Vapes]

Hmm alright. The reason I'm so concerned with this battery safety stuff again is because I have some "exotic" coils coming in the mail. I'm not looking to vape at 200 watts lol I just want to enjoy my purchase safely and was told they're gonna take more watts/amps than my basic single wire builds..I'm not sure how much they require..any input there would be appreciated. Thanks for helping me.

 

[Mattp169]

no clue what those coils require. most complicated coils i have run are vertabraid (6 wires braided together) and fused claptons
but i ran them at 50ish watts
it all depends on what you like. at lower watts the coils are going to take longer to heat up and longer to get very hot. at higher watts they will get hot faster and get hotter faster.

experiment away with your new coils

you can set you alien to 200watts right now and hold the fire button for 10seconds the batteries are not going to vent. but then release the fire button and do it again for 10 seocnds, then again and again and again, eventually your batteries will vent. WHEN? I have no clue
Is it safe enough to vape casually ( 3-5 second puffs, 3 or 4 puffs a minute, 20 times in a hour with at least a minute between sets of puffs) at 200 watts on 25rs? I am not going to sit here and say YES. But possibly.
want to play it safe?
take the battery door off. and feel the batteries
if they feel HOT stop using them until they cool.

you are right to be concerend about amp draw on a regulated mod. but i think you should relax a little

what is happening is this
the more amps drawn form a battery the more they heat up internally, at a certain temperature they vent. the CDR is the max amp you can draw on that battery from 4.2v to i think 3.2v without the internal temperature rising past a certain point that will cause thermal runaway which causes venting.
you can PULSE beyond that CDR rating and be fine as long as you dont overheat the batteries. so lets say you pulsed them at 30amps for 2 seconds. That shouldnt cause a 25r to heat up that much. if it cools back down and you do it again still no problem. its constantly pulling amps beyond the CDR and not giving the batteries a chance to cool off which will cause venting

I can't say for sure you will be fine. I suspect you will be, mainly because you are so worried about it and that makes one cautious.

Play around with you new coils try them at high settings.
if you find hey i like this kind and only at 167watts or more, well its time to invest in 30amp batteries or a 3 cell mod. But you may find you like most of them below 100 watts.
I dont thin i have heard of many IF ANY people who constantly vape much above 150
and even 150 on 25rs is not much to worry about

 

[Mattp169]

one thing i will suggest as you push the higher watts
keep you batteries charged and above 50% on the mods indicator

 

[Matty Vapes]

Thanks. Yeah I'm a super careful guy lol I'll stop tripping and just test the waters with any given set of coils..thanks for dropping knowledge tho. I think I understand properly now. At the very least I can refer to this thread or save it to wordpad

 

[KingPin!]

Matty what wattage do you like to vape at? once you know that you can work it all through from there few people vape at max settings

 

[Matty Vapes]

Matty what wattage do you like to vape at? once you know that you can work it all through from there few people vape at max settings

50-60 watts on basic single 24 gauge kanthal wire.. I won't be playing with these coils for a few weeks yet as I'm getting a new RDA that will house them better

 

[KingPin!]

50-60 watts on basic single 24 gauge kanthal wire.. I won't be playing with these coils for a few weeks yet as I'm getting a new RDA that will house them better

Then those 25R mate will serve you no probs

going above 110w you might want to look into the 25CDR batteries, but even then as Matt said at 120w if you swap batteries out at quarter charge instead of waiting for them to be fully depleted you'll be all good

 

[Mattp169]

the other thing is this
if you are that worried go get some 30amp batteries like some HB2s or something

 

[Matty Vapes]

the other thing is this
if you are that worried go get some 30amp batteries like some HB2s or something

Is this the equivalent? https://www.dashvapes.com/products/batteries+and+chargers/19/lg+hg2+18650+3000mah+battery/1103/9673

it's says 20amp but 35amp max. Not sure what # is right..

 

[Mattp169]

nope
these 3 are all 30 amp batteries
https://liionwholesale.com/collections/batteries/lg+18650+30-amps

 

[Matty Vapes]

Theyre not available at my usual places. The link you provided ships to Canada but would they sell + ship just 4? Being a wholesale place..I dunno. Sorry for all the questions. I might just keep it simple and nevermind the cool coils until I can get a more powerful set up. Strange that 30amp batteries aren't available at any of the three places I shop..blah

 

[CactusFanaticus]

Those are LG HG2's, my favorite battery, but that price is high. Check out www.imrbatteries.com or lions, very trusted sources. They are only 18-20 amp batteries but they are 3000 mah (the capacitance) like you I vape around 60 watts and they last forever, those batteries will handle 60 watts perfectly fine the way I vape even in a single battery mech. If you want to experiment with very high wattage vaping choose something different than the HG2. There is only so much room in a battery so there is a trade off between amp limit and mah, the amp rating (how much of a load you can put on them) and the mah or capacity. Higher the mah the longer the charge lasts, higher the amp rating the more of a load they can handle so you have to choose batteries by your vaping style, if you vape higher watts get higher amp batteries, but the mah will be lower and they will run down faster.

Don't go by what the wrap says though, google the mooch battery chart to see what they actually tested at. Also check out this video when you have time on battery safety

.

 

[Matty Vapes]

Appreciate the help guys. I'll figure it out lol I know the limitations of my batteries so it should be safe to experiment a little

 

[SteveS45]

@Matty Vapes you have to remember some of these exotic coils have ratings that you really don't need to vape at and I have found I do not like a Hot vape, more on the cooler side and that is why I like Temperature Control because you can vape at high wattage but still not burn your lips! Can never be too safe though!

 

[Carambrda]

I'm a slow learner..is this correct?

yes lol

While it is true the fact most regulated mods are technically designed such a way that they cannot actually attain a high enough output wattage to become a serious problem with those batteries due to the large voltage sag that is typifying of those batteries if running those batteries in the higher amp range, it should nevertheless be noted there are some certain other factors at play. Like, for example, you can never be sure about the mod's capabilities until you're sure. For another example, what about fake batteries? Most fakes are actually lower amp batteries compared to what they've been made to look like. They're genuine, good quality batteries manufactured by the top brands, just the shrink wrap around them is what's fake so they fool you into thinking you received, for example, a genuine 20 amp battery when the reality is you received, for example, a genuine (manufactured by Sony/LG/Samsung/Sanyo/Panasonic, etc.) 10 amp battery the shrink wrap of which has simply been replaced to look like it's a 20 amp battery. You could still cause the battery to vent, but it vents inside the mod so the gas escapes from the battery, and some liquid escapes from the battery, but it all happens inside the mod so you're not directly in contact with the venting battery. You might still get burns onto your skin because the escaping gas is hot, but the bit of escaping liquid normally doesn't come pouring out of the mod, and you're not going to get the battery to go into thermal runaway so you're not going to see flames or explosions or anything like that─unless there's a technical malfunction in the mod. However... some fake batteries are different from this... the battery under the wrap is manufactured in China, and some situations it can be dangerous, so... again, you can't be sure unless you're sure.

So... Following Mooch's advice, nope... the explanation you wrote is not correct.

 

[Matty Vapes]

puffin on dual claptons at 0.3 ohms at 75 watts..drawing 16.5 amps and not exploding or venting..I'm good right? lol

 

[Johnnytraveler]

puffin on dual claptons at 0.3 ohms at 75 watts..drawing 16.5 amps and not exploding or venting..I'm good right? lol

Try claptons, fused claptons or twisted coils before you get into exotic coils. The above type of Coils provide a good vape experience without putting too big a load on your gear.

It's fun to go low. I built and bought coils that fired as low as 0.11 ohms. Happy I tried it. But it was a very hot vape. Took forever to ramp up. And drained my batteries faster than I wanted. So now I vape from 0.30 to 0.60.

Try anything and everything, as it's better than smoking. As long as you check ohms law and know what the limits of your gear is.

 

[Mattp169]

puffin on dual claptons at 0.3 ohms at 75 watts..drawing 16.5 amps and not exploding or venting..I'm good right? lol

you are fine. 75 watts on an alien is just under 14 amps

 

[Matty Vapes]

you are fine. 75 watts on an alien is just under 14 amps

Thank you for your patience..Like you and others said. No reason to vape high wattage necessarily. In the end I'm enjoying these claptons at 55 watts lol They fire and produce vapor and don't heat up my atty to badly. Plenty clouds. Goodtimes.