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Is it possible to reduce 'coil crust'?

Stackle2

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Everyone is familiar with the nasty tasting carbon that builds up on coils, right?

I know some attributes of various juices contribute to that crust developing much more rapidly than others.

I've also noticed that on my Hades/Tobh Atty, certain coil types will cake up in a week or more, while changing the design will result in a burnt, off taste, and very thick crust in a few hours of light vaping.

I am wondering what, if anything, can be physically done to prevent this. I don't want to re wick 3 times a day, that's ridiculous.

Please remember, I am not looking for a diatribe of juice attributes. I know sweeter/darker/richer juices cake more. I want to know if running a hotter setup, or less wick, or personal technique may reduce this phenomenon.

Thank you all.
 

Stackle2

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The coils in the pic were burnt clean & re wicked at 8:30 this morning, currently 11:17.

Just seems awfully fast build up.

Note: my main problem with the build up is the terrible scorched char flavor. Tastes like a dry hit on cotton. Awful.
 

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Fishee

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I don't know if you have tried the rayon wicking material or not. But I can say for a fact that using the rayon reduces the coil crud in an extreme way. Sometimes the Same coil after a week of heavy vaping and and practically no crud.
That some amazing shit right there.
Just wanna be sure you get the right rayon.
But I'm confident that anyone who has used rayon will attest to the same thing I just said.
Rayon=minimal coil crud
 

Crocky

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Stacked, is that your tobh in the picture you are talking about? It looks like it has a deeper well.
I really don't have any I input on how to avoid the crusty coils....LOL. But I find the thinner gauge gets crusty much faster than my thicker gauge of course
Also fishee, any chances of a link to rayon that is appropriate? Not sure the taste difference/performance over cotton but I am always open to trying new wicking material. So far cotton has been my go to.
 

Fishee

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Honestly I learned about from a thread on ECF by a dude named Jeremy. He did a shit ton of research and I looked through that thread for weeks before deciding to try the rayon for myself and when I did it was an absolute game changer. That stuff still blows my mind. Not everyone is as enthusiastic about it but to me there seems to be nothing like it. I would like to try the readyXwick but have a feeling it won't impress me like the rayon has.
Let me try finding a good link. I'll get back here as soon as I do.
 

Stackle2

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I don't know if you have tried the rayon wicking material or not. But I can say for a fact that using the rayon reduces the coil crud in an extreme way. Sometimes the Same coil after a week of heavy vaping and and practically no crud.
That some amazing shit right there.
Just wanna be sure you get the right rayon.
But I'm confident that anyone who has used rayon will attest to the same thing I just said.
Rayon=minimal coil crud
Good info, I haven't tried it. Actually just switched to organic cotton Japanese stacks, AMAZING flavor, but I ran out so currently using cotton balls again. Got a 240 pack of stacks coming from Hong Kong now. Damn customs.

How about a link to the kind of rayon that you recommend?
 

Stackle2

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Stacked, is that your tobh in the picture you are talking about? It looks like it has a deeper well.
I really don't have any I input on how to avoid the crusty coils....LOL. But I find the thinner gauge gets crusty much faster than my thicker gauge of course
Also fishee, any chances of a link to rayon that is appropriate? Not sure the taste difference/performance over cotton but I am always open to trying new wicking material. So far cotton has been my go to.
Yes, it's the 28.5mm Atty, so it's a huge well. I saw the 22mm for the first time this past weekend, was shocked by how miniscule it is....lol

& I agree about thinner guage = more crust. What has me puzzled is that the coils in the pic are 26, which I normally have no issues with.

Only thing that has changed is I reduced 1 wrap from my normal microcoil, & I ran out of stacks & cotton balls, so switched to a new brand of balls.
 

Myk

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I don't know but recently a previously un-gunky DIY recipe of mine has turned gunky. Same recipe out of the same bottles. Same ribbon coil and mesh wick builds. Same age of the liquid.
At first I thought it was a reaction with the PETE bottle the one I was using was in but the next bottle in glass is doing the same thing.

Whatever it is must be able to be a minor tweak to be the difference between gunky and not.
 

Crocky

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Cool, thanks! Yes we have a Sally's so I will check it out. I had no idea rayon was safe to use. Thanks again!
 

Stackle2

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Myk, I almost suggested ambient humidity in the OP, but thought that sounded kind of out there. Seeing as you have experienced exactly the same issue I have, maybe humidity or some other environmental issue could explain this problem.
 
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Stackle2

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http://www.delasco.com/pcat/3/Cosmaceuticals/RayonP/RayonP/
Honestly there are a number of places to acquire the rayon. You just wanna be sure to get the all rayon and NOT the cotton/rayon mix.
If you have a Sally's beauty supply store in your area you can aslo get the rayon from there.
Pretty much a life time supply for like $12
How does the rayon come packaged? The sallys here where I live primarily hires people that couldn't cut it at mcdonalds. Definitely have no clue when it comes to answering customer questions.
 

AmandaD

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Do you agree that it greatly reduces the coil crud?

Actually, no....I've read that other people find this, but so far I don't. I never add sweetener to my DIY, and I use a very low percentage of flavoring, so I don't know why this is...but the flavor is amazing!
 

Fishee

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That's a bit odd. But there could be other factors at play.
But it's always nice to see someone else that loves the rayon:)
 

Galaxyrider

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Honestly I learned about from a thread on ECF by a dude named Jeremy. He did a shit ton of research and I looked through that thread for weeks before deciding to try the rayon for myself and when I did it was an absolute game changer. That stuff still blows my mind. Not everyone is as enthusiastic about it but to me there seems to be nothing like it. I would like to try the readyXwick but have a feeling it won't impress me like the rayon has.
Let me try finding a good link. I'll get back here as soon as I do.
I read this post, and the one you made right before it. I'm very new to DIY, I've been vaping for 90 days and using a VV mod and KFL for almost a week. I watched about a thousand rip tripper vids on youtube, I have turned my first coil, (30ga @ 1.4 ohms First try) so I've been wicking with cotton. I'm all about listening when someone says something works.. I listened to a woman from my church that told me that vaping might help me quit smoking.. and I think Im about 90 days from going 0% nic after the last 10 yrs of 2+ packs a day, and at LEAST a pack a day the 40 yrs before that.
You say rayon works? Please.. tell me more I'm listening..
 

AmandaD

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Rayon wicks better than cotton, and it has no break-in period like some find with cotton - no cotton taste. The rayon most of us use is from Sally's Beauty Supply - cellucotton. It generally only comes in a 500ft box for around $12, and you have to be sure the box actually says 'rayon' not 'cotton', because the same stuff is made in cotton (called cellucotton also). Also you don't want 'reinforced rayon.' It also gives a slightly cleaner taste than cotton.
 

Fishee

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I can't really add to what Amanda said. But I'll try;)
The rayon actually WICKS. Unlike cotton that really mostly absorbs more than wicks the liquid.
The flavor of your juice is better.
The nic hit is better.
The vapor is denser.
It doesn't get all black were the coil is like cotton.
It's easier to tell when the wick is drying.
If a dry hit does happen it is way less painful than a cotton dry hit.
And if you're like me and don't really want to mess with having to rewick for each flavor change the rayon is great for quick flavor changes. Just vape what you have until almost dry, then drip a new flavor and it will immediately transition to that new flavor with only a short time of previous flavor carry over. LOL know what I mean?
 

Feignix69

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I keep hearing all this great stuff about Rayon but after trying it 3 times with horrifying results I can say with absolute certinty, NEVER again! That best I can describe the taste as being like, was as if I was vaping Barbie's hair! Ugh....literally gagged, especially after trying to use it in the Veritas, and then again the last time when I actually made it to 20+ pulls trying to get through the "breaking in" period as someone suggested! And yes....it was 100% rayon, the correct material people are referring to and/or cellucotton! Evidently not everyone's experience with it is the same as I had a couple people come forward with similar results after posting mine. Oh well....I guess it's still cotton for me until something better comes along that I can stand...
 

Celtic Fog

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Edited for safety reasons, Donuts have exploded on a couple of builds, going to ask FatDaddy for some information on them and their safety before I recommend them again.
 

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UncleRJ

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I love Ramie fiber for my wicks. It delivers great taste and it is resistant to the heat delivered by the coil which will degrade cotton fairly quickly.

I dry burn my coils every 10ml of liquid or so to remove the gunk. The wick itself seems to be in good shape but I just go ahead and replace it while I am in there.

Tobacco, Coffee and Chocolate flavors seem to be the worse offenders. Blueberry as well.
 

chickenmonkey

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I use rayon in drippers mainly to test diy and Japanese cotton in tanks. I rewick and dry burn every 3 tank fills. Giving everything a thorough clean. My coils last for ages.
 

AmandaD

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Turns out the coil crust I was experiencing was caused by the saline solution. I've sinced stopped using it, and my coils last much longer now - as does the rayon. I use rayon exclusively now in all my rdas (and in my Fogger), and I get no taste at all from the rayon - much more pure flavor from the juice!
 

UncleRJ

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I use rayon in drippers mainly to test diy and Japanese cotton in tanks. I rewick and dry burn every 3 tank fills. Giving everything a thorough clean. My coils last for ages.

What gauge wire do you use for your coils?
 

chickenmonkey

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What gauge wire do you use for your coils?
I use 28 Guage kanthal wrapped 8 times around a 2-2.4 ml screw driver 1.2 to 1.4 ohms great flavour and vapor. What do you use?
 

UncleRJ

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ATM I am using 32 gauge Kantal in a 6/7 wrap around a freaking nail (#6 I think) micro coil that comes out to 1.7 ohms.

But I will most likely order some 28 gauge soon to achieve some additional surface area.
 

Real Extract in Seattle

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I dropped down to 26 ga.wire as I can burn off more times before recoiling. I only do organics and find that there is no way to prevent the buildup but I can dry burn and dip in water to get rid of the crust. The organics are worth the trouble.
 

Joshua Parnell

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If this problem is occuring on your one Atty, maybe you could try using ceramic donuts instead of coils for this one, easier to change the wicking when you want, and dry burning the donut will clean it off in a matter of seconds.
http://www.fatdaddyvapes.com/shop.html
View attachment 6439

careful with those... dryburning too long will make em explode. At least that was the case a couple months ago

http://www.reddit.com/r/electronic_...nnl1/beware_of_the_vapin_donuts_they_explode/
 

Galaxyrider

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I keep hearing all this great stuff about Rayon but after trying it 3 times with horrifying results I can say with absolute certinty, NEVER again! That best I can describe the taste as being like, was as if I was vaping Barbie's hair! Ugh....literally gagged, especially after trying to use it in the Veritas, and then again the last time when I actually made it to 20+ pulls trying to get through the "breaking in" period as someone suggested! And yes....it was 100% rayon, the correct material people are referring to and/or cellucotton! Evidently not everyone's experience with it is the same as I had a couple people come forward with similar results after posting mine. Oh well....I guess it's still cotton for me until something better comes along that I can stand...
Rayon, Japanese cotton, and silica have all come up short with me too. I have "Ol' Faithful" a bag of good ol' Cotton, grown in the USA.. Good enough for me!
 

Dutzy

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241335d2928dc20602d91b1f88da71d7.jpg


Love this stuff!
 

Giraut

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The carbon buildup comes from the juice. With a dripper, the obvious solution is to feed it less juice: run the wick drier and drop the power.

In my "thick vapor" vaping mode, I run my (single) coil at 13W and recharge my atty every 2 or 3 minutes with 10 drops. Depending on the juices I vape, I have to dry-burn every 2 to 5 days.

In my "high flavor" vaping mode, I run the coil at 8W, recharge the atty every 10 minutes with 5 drops, and I can go 1 to 2 weeks without dry-burning.
 

MacTechVpr

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I dropped down to 26 ga.wire as I can burn off more times before recoiling. I only do organics and find that there is no way to prevent the buildup but I can dry burn and dip in water to get rid of the crust. The organics are worth the trouble.

You state a point made up of raw common sense there RES. To make more gunk, you've got to vape more gunk. You can't make it out of thin air. I introduced efficient electrical winds on ECF, the tensioned microcoil. An adaptation to enable the simple reproduction and perfection of super_X_drifter's novel introduction of the contact coil. One which has changed and energized vaping over the last year. I'm on hiatus until the nonsense stops. Claims that correct efficient electrical winds aren't "safe" and are dirty. If you hazard vaping anything that's good, that's got flavor at all and so pigmentation (visible or not, large molecule clusters), if you've got good production...you're going to make some proportion of "gunk" that can't be vaporized. Well that would be sayin', as with any engine, unless you have a damned good filter to stop 'em from getting to the coils. There's somethin' for ya to think about.

Good luck!

:)
 

smacksy

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Is funny I don't experience my coils crusting up at all..most of my build are parallel 26g or 24g kanthel and heat up instantly..I drip straight through my drip tips on organic cotton wicks..after vaping 100-150ml of juice, or changing flavors, do I re-wick with new cotton..all my juice is VG max and I think that also helps to keep my coils firing cleanly..but I never drip directly on the coils themselves.. I always let them soak up juice from the deep juice wells that are in most of my RDA's and in the 28.5 mm Stillare its about 20-23 drops of juice with all that cotton in there on that huge deck space..works well for me with no dry hits and superb flavor too...

from Droid Maxx using Tapatalk
 
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Pauly Walnuts

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Its only true if there is a residue left on the finished product. If not, rayon is is nothing but cellulose fibers, which are safe to vape. I dont own a spectrometer, so i dont know either way.

Most people pick and choose the chemicals they crow about. Picking on rayon's extraction process and not mentioning the hazardous chemicals used to extract nicotine is a tad short sided.
 

MacTechVpr

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Five months ago I posted…

"RRjr: If you closely examine the production process for rayon you'd know that rayon fiber has a very high degree of purity (read: 100%)"

"MTV: Negative. There is up to a 1% residual of amine oxide, a reactive organic solvent. What potentials for interaction with the complex juice molecules we inhale might be a concern. Perhaps someone can post on this.

Facts, not opinions or suppositions on the OP's motive are more constructive (or appeals from authority)."


The same situation arose on reddit that any inquiry was being bashed just like on the advocacy thread on ECF. The antagonism has been so intense that it's created a schism on ECF and vaping in general more profound than anything I've ever seen since I first started reading about ecig's years ago…within the community!

I test rayon extensively in my consumer rebuilding study. I personally don't particularly see its charm. It tends to dilute certain types of flavor and it's extremely gunky with organics. I've written about what I have observed including pictures on this and other forums. I don't have the time or resources for more in depth eval of this material, too expensive. However, to it's credit it can be a formidable diffuse vapor producer and some flavors really excel with it so I would not dismiss it from a performance standpoint.

However, above I posted a question regarding a legitimate concern. I don't have a sufficient grasp of the chemistry to appreciate how reactive amine oxide might be with some of the organic components we vape or other chemistry. I posed a legitimate question. I got a waste my time answer from one of the detractors.

As long as advocacy within the community is conducted in this fashion of invalidating the inquiry we will not see a real interest in understanding why rayon performs as is does, whether it's actually a great wick or merely an adequate option or…if there is something to be concerned about.

I start to get really concerned when I see statements by its presumptively informed advocates like…

"Now, if you still want to prove that rayon is somehow different from cotton as far as toxicity and safety of use goes, provide analysis and facts about the rayon itself. What chemicals were used in its production is completely irrelevant."

The chilling effect of criticism and alienation will certainly stifle any intelligent discussion.

I still wait for an answer. I've formed a preliminary perspective and use rayon only for testing purposes. I don't dissuade peeps from using it, in fact encourage side-by-side tests but I definitely do not encourage its long term use.

Still waiting for answers. But I won't do the homework for ya. We've each got to do our own due diligence.

Good luck.

:)
 
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MrScaryZ

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Everyone is familiar with the nasty tasting carbon that builds up on coils, right?

I know some attributes of various juices contribute to that crust developing much more rapidly than others.

I've also noticed that on my Hades/Tobh Atty, certain coil types will cake up in a week or more, while changing the design will result in a burnt, off taste, and very thick crust in a few hours of light vaping.

I am wondering what, if anything, can be physically done to prevent this. I don't want to re wick 3 times a day, that's ridiculous.

Please remember, I am not looking for a diatribe of juice attributes. I know sweeter/darker/richer juices cake more. I want to know if running a hotter setup, or less wick, or personal technique may reduce this phenomenon.

Thank you all.
It depends on the flavoring agents in the Juice I have seen no difference between Rayon and real Cotton I have with flavors complex flavors that crust up are common now just think whats in your lungs :)
 
I have been vaping on a 26 gauge dual parallel coil for 6 days now and no build up. But I do not run it in a micro coil I have it with a 1 mm spacing in between the wires. I am running it with Japanese cotton. Flavor is great and good vapor production as well. 5 wraps on each coil comes out to about .3 to .4 ohms. Running it on a Sir Lancelot clone.
 
It depends on the flavoring agents in the Juice I have seen no difference between Rayon and real Cotton I have with flavors complex flavors that crust up are common now just think whats in your lungs :)
This has no bearing on what is on your lungs as the heating is not taking place in your lungs. Unless you are talking about what is left over from analog cigarettes.
 

MrScaryZ

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This has no bearing on what is on your lungs as the heating is not taking place in your lungs. Unless you are talking about what is left over from analog cigarettes.
What you just said made so little sense I have no reply because I have taken on a new way but you almost unleashed "The Fury"
 

MKPM

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Wicking notwithstanding, I have found that tightly wound coils that are pinched to the point of making solid contact to the extent of being more of a screw than a coil tend to not have buildup issues.
 

Pauly Walnuts

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I just made an interesting finding in regards to coil gunk.

I vape the gunkiest shit in the world, My own diy custard. Cap custard, bav cream, sweet cream, marshmallow and other flavors. I had been rewicking and glowing coils every single day for a long time. My fave build was dual 5wraps of 24ga, 7/64id @ .2 ohms, in my plume veil on my nemesis.

I just got a serial 18650 box (8.4volts) mod and now I need to up my ohms for safety and pleasure. Im now using dual 26ga, 2.3mm coils, 12wraps @ .6 ohms. Something changed, my coils are not getting as dirty nearly as quick. Im changing wicks every other day and the coils barely need glowed.

I dont suggest my route for everyone, but I figure its a valid observation.
 

MrScaryZ

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Five months ago I posted…

"RRjr: If you closely examine the production process for rayon you'd know that rayon fiber has a very high degree of purity (read: 100%)"

"MTV: Negative. There is up to a 1% residual of amine oxide, a reactive organic solvent. What potentials for interaction with the complex juice molecules we inhale might be a concern. Perhaps someone can post on this.

Facts, not opinions or suppositions on the OP's motive are more constructive (or appeals from authority)."


The same situation arose on reddit that any inquiry was being bashed just like on the advocacy thread on ECF. The antagonism has been so intense that it's created a schism on ECF and vaping in general more profound than anything I've ever seen since I first started reading about ecig's years ago…within the community!

I test rayon extensively in my consumer rebuilding study. I personally don't particularly see its charm. It tends to dilute certain types of flavor and it's extremely gunky with organics. I've written about what I have observed including pictures on this and other forums. I don't have the time or resources for more in depth eval of this material, too expensive. However, to it's credit it can be a formidable diffuse vapor producer and some flavors really excel with it so I would not dismiss it from a performance standpoint.

However, above I posted a question regarding a legitimate concern. I don't have a sufficient grasp of the chemistry to appreciate how reactive amine oxide might be with some of the organic components we vape or other chemistry. I posed a legitimate question. I got a waste my time answer from one of the detractors.

As long as advocacy within the community is conducted in this fashion of invalidating the inquiry we will not see a real interest in understanding why rayon performs as is does, whether it's actually a great wick or merely an adequate option or…if there is something to be concerned about.

I start to get really concerned when I see statements by its presumptively informed advocates like…

"Now, if you still want to prove that rayon is somehow different from cotton as far as toxicity and safety of use goes, provide analysis and facts about the rayon itself. What chemicals were used in its production is completely irrelevant."

The chilling effect of criticism and alienation will certainly stifle any intelligent discussion.

I still wait for an answer. I've formed a preliminary perspective and use rayon only for testing purposes. I don't dissuade peeps from using it, in fact encourage side-by-side tests but I definitely do not encourage its long term use.

Still waiting for answers. But I won't do the homework for ya. We've each got to do our own due diligence.

Good luck.

:)
I have researched Rayon extensively and I think that it is a schism in the community on many subjects. I myself have tested Rayon and I personally will not use it period I have but I refuse to get into a battle because some care so little about finding facts they take the easy way out .
 
What you just said made so little sense I have no reply because I have taken on a new way but you almost unleashed "The Fury"
You claim you do all this research but you do not understand that the crust on the coil is from the caramelized juice which only takes place on the coil itself. Now I am not saying that nothing is going to yours lungs but the crust is only on the coils. And there's no reason to be a douche
 

MrScaryZ

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You claim you do all this research but you do not understand that the crust on the coil is from the caramelized juice which only takes place on the coil itself. Now I am not saying that nothing is going to yours lungs but the crust is only on the coils. And there's no reason to be a douche
OK well I never said that it was not just on the coils and If you re-read my comment I was asking the question wondering just what is in our lunks it was just tongue and cheek sorry for being a douche it happens to all of us bad day you got my douchness apologies
 

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