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Is vaping bad for the heart?

UncleIronLungs

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Yesterday a friend of mine had to go to hospital for a check up. He's had problems with his lungs for a few years now which the doctors have put down to his previous smoking habit.

When questioning him on his lifestyle changes etc he's made since being told he needs to quit smoking, he told them he had now quit smoking and was vaping exclusively.

The doctor told him that although vaping is a thousand times better for his lungs than smoking, it's actually really bad for the heart.

I was shocked to hear this as it's the 1st time I've heard this stated. I've vaped since 2012 and feel much healthier now than I did on the cancer sticks.

What truths are there in the doctor's comment? and where has this information been collected?
Since I'm unaware of any official evidence pointing to the heart issue, I personally think it's irresponsible of health professionals to discourage new vapours with information like this.

If anyone has any ideas of research that poimts towards this, or against this please let me know so I can inform my friend of the actual facts.
 

Chowder

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Although I am not a doctor, I am a medic with six years vaping experience along with 15 years in the field emergency medical experience, and can only speak from that point of view/back ground on the subject matter proposed. The short answer you are looking for is that yes, the doctor(s) is/are correct in stating that nicotine can be really bad for the heart; especially if a person has a known or unknown compromised cardiovascular system. The amount to which the nicotine is detrimental to the cardiovascular system is directly dependant on the individual and specific to his/her current physical/mental health and past physical/mental history. Therefore, there is no one answer to the question of whether nicotine will have permanent chronic or acute detrimental effects upon an individual, but it can be generalized that the introduction of ANY substance (including water in some cases) can have a negative effect on the heart. Whew! Now that I got that mouth full out of the way, let’s start talking where I can understand myself..... Nicotine is a stimulant, much like caffeine, and increases the processes of the of the body; (and not getting tooooo specific here...) including the heart rate, blood pressure, metabolic rate, electro-chemical reactions/processes, and other bodily functions. That's why we feel able to react faster, think better, and generally function better when we vape. It's a "pick-me-up"! Remember, nicotine is a drug. We generally don't use drugs because they don't work. We use drugs because they work, PERIOD, and in such a way that we think benefits us in some form or faction. Whether recreational or pharmaceutical, we use drugs for a desired response/reaction. However, since nicotine speeds up the heart rate and increases the blood pressure, it puts extra added stress on the total cardiovascular system (heart and pluming). Putting stress on an otherwise healthy heart and vascular system for short periods of time, doesn't tend to cause permanent damage; think of running or being frightened. However, if you put extra added stress on the cardiovascular system over long periods of time (remember, I've been vaping for 6 years now) and the associated acute conditions of hypertension, elevated heart rate, stress on the vascular walls, etc. can lead to chronic conditioning of your body to try to compensate for the added stresses. Just as any other muscle in the body, if you continuously stress it out, it gets thicker and more fibrous. In the heart, a thickening of the muscle walls leads to smaller heart chambers and a less effective ability of the heart to pump blood throughout the vascular system. This can lead to a condition known as "Congestive Heart Failure" or CHF (a chronic condition). Just like any other mechanical pump, the heart can weaken with age and over taxing. The more stress you put on it, especially over a period of time, the more likely it is to fail. Extra added stress on the vascular system also wears it out, reduces the elasticity, and makes it more brittle. A brittle artery can lead to stroke; whether embolism (blockage) or hemorrhagic (bleeding). (Think of an old worn out garden hose that breaks/leaks when you apply water presure.) Now, each individual reacts differently to the added stress of the stimulant effect of nicotine, and some can tolerate those effects while others may not be able to. Talk with your doctors and try to track your bodily/cardiovascular changes with them over a long period of time. In my personal experience, I know I have hypertension due to my diet, activity level, extreme work stresses/environment, adverse working and sleep schedules, nicotine/caffeine intake, and other contributing factors. However, I am tracking changes and have had a complete cardiovascular work up as a bases to track those changes. There are a couple things I can do (if so inclined) to compensate for the added stress of nicotine use. I can change my diet and reduce my salt/fat/carbohydrate intake, exercise more often with moderate cardio types of activities, start blood pressure medication, or even change life habits/work environment to compensate for the added long term stress that nicotine places on my body. I was a smoker for 27 years without thinking this way or the consequences of smoking in general. Then, like most people, it started catching up with me, and it was either quit or find a replacement. Since all other nicotine replacements failed miserably, and psychoactive therapies have too many side effects, vaping was the only choice I found to reduce the harm my nicotine habit construed.

As far as studies already conducted, here is a great place to start:
http://onvaping.com/the-ultimate-list-of-studies-on-e-cigarettes-and-their-safety/
 
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UncleRJ

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Nicely said!

I for one am relieved that my heart functions and blood pressure test always come back in the green.:D

Like the doctor says, my engine is working just fine, it is my chassis that is breaking down:eek:
 

Chowder

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I hear you @UncleRJ ! And since the invention of mobility scooters, I can finally chase girls again! LOL! However, I just can't remember why I was chasing them in the first place????? :confused:
 

InMyImage

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@Chowder thanks for the thorough explanation. I have always wondered something about enlarged hearts which I believe is what you described... Once the condition is revealed can the thickening be reduced through lifestyle changes like any other muscle in the body? Or is it pretty much a one way trip with the heart?
 

Chowder

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As far as I can tell from the research available to me, CHF is not primarily reversible. However, we can mitigate it's propagation and extend the viability of the affected heart.

Edit:

And also, looking through my original OP response I posted above, I found a typo that has been corrected. I stated originally that it is "chronic heart failure" when in fact, I meant "Congestive Heart Failure". Sorry to the folks that might have read before the edit, I just have a "chronic" brain this AM!
 
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UncleIronLungs

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Thanks for the informative update Chowder. Input like that from any vaping forum member is greatly appreciated by all involved.

So how I'm seeing it now is basically this... In whatever form we ingest nicotine it will have an adverse effect on our health in one way or another. However the combined reduction of chemical and toxin reduction from quitting cigs in the first place is a step in the right direction to improve health.

I originally started vaping as a stepping stone to rid myself of cigs and cease consumption of nicotine altogether. But.... along the way I've become addicted to vaping as a hobby. DIY flavour mixing, coil building etc etc. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only vaper who has experienced this phenomenon.

Due to the improvements made in mods and delivery methods my juice has reduced from 18mg nic to 3mg nic. I doubt I'll end up going zero but hell it's a million times better than it was.

Kudos to vaping as a whole and the innovations we've all seen along the way. I'm in for the long haul now!
 

Chowder

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@UncleIronLungs , if you stated: "...it will have a possible adverse effect on our health...." I would totally agree. There are a few variables to consider in making a definite statement that "it will" have an adverse effect. A few of the things to consider are (1) first and foremost, the individuals physical tolerance to the effect of a drug, (2) the duration of drug use, (3) the dosage/dosing of the drug, and (4) cumulative/additive characteristics of the drug.
 

UncleIronLungs

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So as efektt states above, its no more harmful than cigs or caffeine.

What's life without a few pleasures though? To me the risks of cigarettes are well proven, it's a total no brainer to stop.

All in all we need more complete, thorough, funded research done to clear up these blank spaces we have where solid answers and proof should be!

Hopefully the research will help settle a few worried minds, or maybe not as the case may be.
 

Chowder

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@UncleIronLungs and @efektt , I would have to say it's hundreds of times less harmful than cigarettes and probably along the same lines as caffeine. However, with caffeine, the argument could be made that, due to the nature of dosage/dosing habits, caffeine has a more acute short term effect (high dose of caffeine - rush/jitters per cup of coffee) and nicotine has a more chronic effect since we tend to vape continuously throughout the day at lower doses. I don't mind the caffeine overdose jitters, but you learn real quick not to overdose nicotine!
 

UncleIronLungs

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It would be useful to know a daily recommended maximum intake of nicotine whilst vaping. This would be pretty much impossible to judge due to all sorts of different variables though, but some sort of indication would be useful.

I would imagine the majority of people vaping are absorbing much higher amounts of nicotine than they were when they were smoking. Although the data isn't available for us to judge, the potential damage from vaping nicotine at high levels is one of those factors I'm sure everyone would like to find out.
 

efektt

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I was bummed a while back. I went to the doc a while back and had high blood pressure. He told me to reduce my coffee intake. I didnt change anything, went back a few months later, and my blood pressure was fine.
 
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Newheart301

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Well, having had an enlarged heart,, ( bigger than a football, when removed ) and didn't know it, and 3 heart attacks in a week, ( the widow-maker first ) followed by a heart-transplant., all in 3 months. Now 16 years out. I can tell you in my case YES, any form of nic. is bad for my heart, and BP..
 

efektt

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Well, having had an enlarged heart,, ( bigger than a football, when removed ) and didn't know it, and 3 heart attacks in a week, ( the widow-maker first ) followed by a heart-transplant., all in 3 months. Now 16 years out. I can tell you in my case YES, any form of nic. is bad for my heart, and BP..
Maybe time to quit?
 

FinerVapor

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Nicotine - much like caffeine, nicotine is a naturally occurring alkaloid with pesticidal qualities. Both of these chemicals are stimulants when taken at low dosages, and are dangerously toxic at high dosages. They are both highly addictive. The biggest difference between the two alkaloids is public perception. Nicotine is negatively perceived because of its association with tobacco. What many people do not know, however, is that nicotine is not responsible for the adverse effects of tobacco smoking. Nicotine does not cause cancer. It does not cause emphysema. Nor chronic bronchitis. It is but one of 4000+ chemicals found in tobacco smoke, many of which are indeed harmful and carcinogenic. Nicotine isn’t even the sole reason cigarettes are so addictive. Recent studies have found that monoamine oxidase inhibitors (MAOI) in tobacco are partly responsible for addiction rates, and reinforce the addictive properties of nicotine.
 

Giraut

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I can only speak for myself, but here's what happened to *my* heart:

- As a cyclist who smoked, my resting HR was around 55/60 and BP at 130/70
- As a cyclist who vapes, my resting HR is below 50, and BP at 110/60.

and I'm not a youngster.

Why is that? Because I've been able to ride more and harder since I've quit smoking. So yeah, nicotine might have negative effects on my heart, but they're largely compensated for by the beneficial side effects of not smoking anymore.

So I suggest that the issue is more complex than just looking at the effects of nicotine alone. The overall health of the meat around the heart in question is very important too.
 
I smoked for 20+ years and started to develop all kinds of serious symptoms because of cig smoke. I quit about seven years ago. I decided to go get a complete 3D lung scan after vaping these long years. My lungs are clear as a bell. I can't speak for anyone else. I can't say that everyone will have these results but as for me? I am way way better off, physically, for quitting smoking and vaping. The end. :)
 

InMyImage

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Just had my first physical in over a year today and the doctor said everything sounds great he asked about smoking and I told him about the vaping and he said that just because there are no long term studies that he would encourage me to stop but that it's certainly better than smoking so he doesn't really have a problem with it.
 
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Newheart301

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I can only speak for myself, but here's what happened to *my* heart:

- As a cyclist who smoked, my resting HR was around 55/60 and BP at 130/70
- As a cyclist who vapes, my resting HR is below 50, and BP at 110/60.

and I'm not a youngster.

Why is that? Because I've been able to ride more and harder since I've quit smoking. So yeah, nicotine might have negative effects on my heart, but they're largely compensated for by the beneficial side effects of not smoking anymore.

So I suggest that the issue is more complex than just looking at the effects of nicotine alone. The overall health of the meat around the heart in question is very important too.
Smoking my BP was avg. 168/105. HR 65
 

UncleIronLungs

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Well from the results you guys are getting from the doctors, and how it's made you all feel personally, there's definitely a huge benefit to swapping over to vaping.
Like I said in the op I'm 3 years vaping now and loving it, feeling less wheezy and overall better.
We need legit, official research done. Non of this unofficial, big baccy paid ball's.
 

Chowder

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........We need legit, official research done. Non of this unofficial, big baccy paid ball's.

Agreed! Even the pro-vaping biased studies have, for the most part, been extrapolated data studies from previous research or extrapolated studies of research. I, for one, would be the first to volunteer for a blind long term study. I would hazard to say that 95+% of people who have switched from smoking to vaping have positive allegorical evidence. The problems arise with the factors involved. Even a control group statistically has a propensity of too many variables to account for a verifiable bases to which to compare introduced conditions. Then there's funding and management. Outside of big corporations, big pharma, government, and university level research facilities (which ALL happen to be primarily biased against vaping or show a propensity towards a negative bias), who is left that can actually conduct such specific research?
 

0rK1ngDAM Good Vapes

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There are lot of studies being done about the effects vaping has on the heart, but now this is coming from the Department of Health and Human Services there has not been enough valid information provided to state that vaping has any more impact on the body.
But my theory of it is I'm going to die from either smoking cigs. or vaping and if I can go out not smelling like an ashtray and Im not going to cause any harm to my children by vaping I'll choose that. As any doctor will tell their patient everything in moderation.
 

Dragger

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It's impossible to prove a negative, so even with having a science degree I take the scare stories with a grain of salt.

Doctors don't even agree on vaping. I smoked 2 1/2 packs a day for over 40 years and developed COPD and had numerous heart attacks. I only quit after a spell in the hospital due to a broken leg caused by passing out -- most likely because of a lack of oxygen to my brain. Yes, I was seriously hooked on smokes. The two weeks in bed and the numbing effects of pain pills got me started quitting without serious withdrawal. However, when I went home I knew I was in trouble. Out of desperation, I started using an look-alike set I'd bought before the accident but didn't like enough to use. Now it's been a year and a half and I seldom get the urge to light up.

Anyhow, my cardiologist is really, really pleased that I have replaced smoking with vaping. He says although in a perfect world I should quit, the benefits to my health are major.

But my pulmonologist (lung doctor) is not so pleased, even though I've increased my lung capacity by 60% and no longer have chronic bronchitis. He says the nicotine is really bad for my heart.

So, go figure. I rarely go above 6mg and figure I have much more important health problems to worry about other than nicotine.
 

Giraut

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But my pulmonologist (lung doctor) is not so pleased, even though I've increased my lung capacity by 60% and no longer have chronic bronchitis. He says the nicotine is really bad for my heart.

Then he's an idiot who doesn't understand the concept of risk reduction. The best thing is no nothing in your system. But if you, like me, can't live without nicotine, then the next best thing is a safe nicotine delivery system that keeps you off cigarettes.
 

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