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It's not the nicotine...

Warhawk-AVG

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I posted this over at ECF...figure I would go ahead and put it here as well

"an error doesn't become a mistake until you refuse to correct it"

"Personal Vapers" or E-Cigs are a viable replacement for delivery of nicotine, just like the patches and gums, it just "resembles" smoking and allows those who developed the bad habit of oral fixation thru smoking to satisfy that urge.

I know everyone has seen all the reports over e-cigs the media is pumping out, many have bought into the falseness of the claims...it's time to break it down with common sense.

What 3 chemicals are found in cigarette smoking? In every single one no matter what brand, flavor, strength? In what ratios?

There were studies ordered by the government of tobacco companies to produce a list of the ratios.

http://www.econdataus.com/cigrs.html

Now what can you tell me about that list...take a close look at look at the levels and ratios of nicotine, tar, and carbon monoxide?

The amount of nicotine you actually get from the cigarette is between 5-15 times LESS than the other two chemicals individually, combined 10-30 times less, so what are you REALLY getting addicted to when you "burn a stinky?"

Now...ask yourself what are the effects of those chemicals on the human body after YEARS of use? What is the damage to your immune system with the constant stressing of it each time you smoke a cigarette for years, decades even, what does a healthy immune system do to cancer cells when they are found, what does a stressed or weakened immune system due to those stresses from the known chemicals in cigarettes?

Now...let's discuss these "e-cigarette" things
When they first came out in their infancy in there may have been problems..the government did a study and found in a handful of samples chemicals that can be harmful, what they didn't tell you is that in EVERY SINGLE one of those samples the 10-30 times the harmful chemicals WERE NOT THERE.

Over time, ingenious individuals found better products that didn't have those components that had the harmful chemicals that were found in the beginning yet most reports attacking e-cigs are based upon that early study. Technology has finally risen to allow those same ingenious individuals to create a device to deliver vaporized fluids containing small metered amounts of nicotine. Nichrome wire, high density Li Ion batteries.

Personal vapers e-juice NOW contains 4 separate elements, propylene glycol which can also be found in NUMEROUS products most of us use and ingest daily, it is not antifreeze even though some antifreeze's use it, guess what else is in antifreeze...dihydrogen monoxide...aka water.

The second is food grade artificial flavoring that does not contain Diacetyl which is a chemical found when heated can release harmful chemicals, and used in e-cig juice early on...thru the same ingenious experimentation they identified this problem and have removed that too, also anything using artificial flavoring...you guessed it...you consume daily, sometimes multiple times daily.

The third is pharmaceutical grade vegetable glycerine which also is found in many products used, consumed, and ingested daily.

Fourth being nicotine extract...which still allows personal vapers to get nicotine which is just another chemical stimulant similar to caffeine, in too much concentration can kill you, but due to ingenious and methodical measurements can be delivered in safe metered amounts just like analogs...but you guessed it WITHOUT the 10-30x the amount harmful chemicals found in cigarettes, you can actually get e-juice with no nicotine in it if you so choose

Those that claim personal vapers or "e-cigs" are JUST as harmful are being disingenuous or even downright wrong (maybe even paid to be wrong...hmmm) The budding personal vaper community doesn't have the media machine that those who want to see it stopped have

How can it be just as harmful when you are removing 10-30x the harmful chemicals from smoking, and comparing it to smoking, yet still getting that chemical stimulant, it would be like taking liquid concentrate caffeine (which you can buy in gallon jugs) and putting it in sparkling water and calling it a coffee product.

Governments and the FDA are looking to regulate and in some places even BAN personal vaping or the sale of its components because it "looks" like smoking even though it is almost NOTHING like smoking other than the small amounts of metered nicotine being delivered, there is no combustion, there is no tar, there is no carbon monoxide, there is no smoke how can it be a "tobacco" product or JUST AS BAD as smoking? It is an alternative form of nicotine delivery, same as patches, and gums that still can be bought over the counter or even on EBAY

Last time I checked, smoking cigarettes didn't become "not bad for you" just because the personal vaper or ecig hit the market.

I quit smoking because it is bad for you, I started vaping to get my nicotine because it is MUCH MUCH LESS bad for you!

It's not about just the nicotine...It has NEVER been about just the nicotine

Now with this information, you can choose to believe an error, or you can choose to correct it
http://casaa.org/
 

jack

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Great post . Thanks for sharing that. Yes ...never been just about nicotine .!!!
 

VapeAddict

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Great post, I really like the way you articulated your main point.
 

Haadkoe

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IMHO, once you remove the nicotine from ejuice, it completely ceases to be an ecigarette. Pg is a primary ingredient in asthma inhalers (among a million other socially accepted products ingested daily, sometimes in public), and no one has ever suggested banning their use. Now one may argue that an asthma inhaler is a medical device necessary for the health and well being of the end user, but in my eyes so is a personal vaporizer. Inhaling pg/VG steam keeps us from the analogs, which is ultimately going to save our lives, thus medically necessary. Without my PV, I'll smoke, and it will kill me. Nothing about it is harmful to those around me, assuming there is no second hand nicotine being blown around an enclosed space for others to inhale. Of course, asthma inhalers and the like have been fda approved and pv's haven't, and denying someone use of their asthma inhaler would present a more immediate potential for harm if its use were denied, and I'm not an idiot and realize there are obviously huge differences between the two devices... But I dont believe pv's should be banned by the government, ever. Now a business owner choosing to ban them is another story in my eyes... After all, no one wants the guy in front of them at the movies blowing clouds for 3 hours straight, but that should be up to the business owner.

I'm off on a rant here, and I'm sure I'll come home from work to find a hundred replies telling me that I'm an idiot, and wrong, but whatever...

Fwiw, the propellant in most asthma inhalers is propane. Could you imagine what they would say if we were blowing clouds powered by propane? OMFG, teh horrarz!!
 

anendeloflorien

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IMHO, once you remove the nicotine from ejuice, it completely ceases to be an ecigarette. Pg is a primary ingredient in asthma inhalers (among a million other socially accepted products ingested daily, sometimes in public), and no one has ever suggested banning their use. Now one may argue that an asthma inhaler is a medical device necessary for the health and well being of the end user, but in my eyes so is a personal vaporizer. Inhaling pg/VG steam keeps us from the analogs, which is ultimately going to save our lives, thus medically necessary. Without my PV, I'll smoke, and it will kill me. Nothing about it is harmful to those around me, assuming there is no second hand nicotine being blown around an enclosed space for others to inhale. Of course, asthma inhalers and the like have been fda approved and pv's haven't, and denying someone use of their asthma inhaler would present a more immediate potential for harm if its use were denied, and I'm not an idiot and realize there are obviously huge differences between the two devices... But I dont believe pv's should be banned by the government, ever. Now a business owner choosing to ban them is another story in my eyes... After all, no one wants the guy in front of them at the movies blowing clouds for 3 hours straight, but that should be up to the business owner.

I'm off on a rant here, and I'm sure I'll come home from work to find a hundred replies telling me that I'm an idiot, and wrong, but whatever...

Fwiw, the propellant in most asthma inhalers is propane. Could you imagine what they would say if we were blowing clouds powered by propane? OMFG, teh horrarz!!

Wow, what an idiot..... Lol just kidding ;) don't think you'll find too many people here that will argue with you on that.

I don't like the term "e-cigarette" personally (and I know there's always tons of debate on the use of that term) precisely because the only real common factors between vaping and a cigarette is, as @Warhawk-AVG pointed out in his OP, the delivery of nicotine through an inhaled medium.
 

freemind

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IMHO, once you remove the nicotine from ejuice, it completely ceases to be an ecigarette. Pg is a primary ingredient in asthma inhalers (among a million other socially accepted products ingested daily, sometimes in public), and no one has ever suggested banning their use. Now one may argue that an asthma inhaler is a medical device necessary for the health and well being of the end user, but in my eyes so is a personal vaporizer. Inhaling pg/VG steam keeps us from the analogs, which is ultimately going to save our lives, thus medically necessary. Without my PV, I'll smoke, and it will kill me. Nothing about it is harmful to those around me, assuming there is no second hand nicotine being blown around an enclosed space for others to inhale. Of course, asthma inhalers and the like have been fda approved and pv's haven't, and denying someone use of their asthma inhaler would present a more immediate potential for harm if its use were denied, and I'm not an idiot and realize there are obviously huge differences between the two devices... But I dont believe pv's should be banned by the government, ever. Now a business owner choosing to ban them is another story in my eyes... After all, no one wants the guy in front of them at the movies blowing clouds for 3 hours straight, but that should be up to the business owner.

I'm off on a rant here, and I'm sure I'll come home from work to find a hundred replies telling me that I'm an idiot, and wrong, but whatever...

Fwiw, the propellant in most asthma inhalers is propane. Could you imagine what they would say if we were blowing clouds powered by propane? OMFG, teh horrarz!!

I don't disagree with your opinion, but what I bolded is hypocrisy. You've already said OTHER business owners can't tell you what to do. So your opinion isn't really genuine. You demonstrated by your own words, you don't believe business owners have a right to say no vaping, to you.
 

Warhawk-AVG

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Go for it Whiskey...was just a simple writeup, just my take on the whole vaping issue

PG just loweres the freezing temperature of water, thus you are correct it can be used as "anti-freeze" but there are alot more uses for it

Applications
Forty-five percent of propylene glycol produced is used as chemical feedstock for the production of unsaturated polyester resins. In this regard, propylene glycol reacts with a mixture of unsaturated maleic anhydride and isophthalic acid to give a copolymer. This partially unsaturated polymer undergoes further crosslinking to yield thermoset plastics. Related to this application, propylene glycol reacts with propylene oxide to give oligomers and polymers that are used to produce polyurethanes.[4]

Propylene glycol is used as an humectant (E1520), solvent, and preservative in food and for tobacco products, as well as being one of the major ingredients of the "e-liquid" used in electronic cigarettes along with vegetable glycerin. Propylene glycol is also used in various edible items such as coffee, ice cream, whipped dairy products, beer and soda.[7] Vaporizers used for delivery of pharmaceuticals or personal care products often include propylene glycol among the ingredients they are filled with.[4] Propylene glycol is used as a solvent in many pharmaceuticals, including oral, injectable and topical formulations, such as for diazepam and lorazepam which are insoluble in water.[8]

Like ethylene glycol, propylene glycol is able to lower the freezing point of water, and so it is used as aircraft de-icing fluid.[4][9] Water-propylene glycol mixtures dyed pink to indicate the mixture is relatively nontoxic are sold under the name of RV or marine antifreeze. Propylene glycol is frequently used as a substitute for ethylene glycol in low toxicity, environmentally friendly automotive antifreeze. It is also used to winterize the plumbing systems in vacant structures.[10] The eutectic composition/temperature is 60:40 propylene glycol:water/-60 °C.[11][12] The −50 °F/−45 °C commercial product is, however, water rich; a typical formulation is 40:60.[13]

Propylene glycol is a minor ingredient in the oil dispersant Corexit, which was used in the cleanup of the Deepwater Horizon oil spill.[14][15]

Propylene glycol is used in veterinary medicine as an oral treatment for hyperketonaemia in ruminants. Glucose, which can be used in non-ruminants for this purpose, is not effective due to its consumption by the resident microbes of the rumen. Propylene glycol is partially metabolized in the rumen to propionate which can be used as an energy source. The remainder is absorbed into the bloodstream and used by the liver for gluconeogenesis.[16]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propylene_glycol

Actually PG in vehicle radiator system does some really awesome things
  • Reduces or eliminates bubbles or vapor barrier that form on hot metal surfaces to reduce coolant temperatures by up to 20°
  • Superior heat transfer properties compared to glycol-based antifreeze
  • Compatible with new or used antifreeze (including DEX-COOL and long-life versions) to improve the heat transfer of ethylene and propylene glycol systems
  • Improves heat transfer and reduces cylinder head temperature
  • Designed for use with all modern aluminum, cast iron, copper, brass and bronze cooling systems
  • Cleans and lubricates water pump seals
  • Reduces cavitation and complexes with hard water to reduce scaling
  • Does not lower cooling system below the thermostatically-controlled temperature
http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=74
 
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Haadkoe

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I don't disagree with your opinion, but what I bolded is hypocrisy. You've already said OTHER business owners can't tell you what to do. So your opinion isn't really genuine. You demonstrated by your own words, you don't believe business owners have a right to say no vaping, to you.
Business owners setting rules for conduct within their business is perfectly acceptable to me. A landlord telling me what i can and cannot do within the privacy of my own home when it has no effect on anyone, is quite another... But we beat that subject to death in the last thread, and disagree with one another... Its cool.
 

freemind

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It's not YOUR home. It's rented space.

Not so unlike the seat you choose at the movie theater.
 

Haadkoe

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If I'm renting it, and I'm living there, it IS my home... That's where we disagree, but my local government sides with me, so again, its cool.

Also, there is a huge difference between doing something in the privacy of your own living space and doing something in a public common area. If we're talking businesses like a resturaunt, movie theater, bar, club, store, indoor sporting event, etc, then you are sharing an area with others who may or may not appreciate what you're doing. Regardless of whether it's legal or not, they could choose to leave and possibly not return to that establishment which would negatively effect said business. So in that regard, I wholly support the business owners right to choose.

Now if we're talking about a common area such as a buildings foyer, hallways, amenity room, elevator, etc, where others are occupying the same general area but the potential for loss of revenue is less relevant, then it simply comes down to a matter of respect for those around you, regardless of legality. I wouldn't start blowing clouds in such areas unless I knew it was an acceptable behavior in said location, because those people might not appreciate it. The same way I wouldn't let a fart loose in such an area... Sure, it wouldn't be hurting anyone if I did, but they might not appreciate the odor. Simply a matter of respect for others, in such a public area.

...stealth vaping, on the other hand... Well, depends on the circumstances. What they dont know, won't hurt me, and won't be perceived as disrespectful if they have no idea that its even occurring.
 
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Time

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I'll just leave this here

(pay close attention to the water in the bottle) 17 packs did that...now at a pack to pack and 1/2 a day for almost 20 years!


Guess what...vaping DOESN'T HAVE THAT!!!!

I'd like to see that video redone with vapor. A side by side comparison. That would be cool.
 

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