Kayfun 4 cloned

[ButtKickers]

There's only 3 main factories in china; who produce ALL of the vape gear for both the OEMs who outsource, and the 'clone' makers


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[BoomStick]

What OEM's are you referring to?

 

[Angel Cigs]

Interested in how they get the original too!!

 

[Rawmade]

Howd you find out theres only 3 factories? And for what? Attys and mechs? Cuz theres many more than 3 that produce other things like VV mods and such. Im fact i know of at least 5 factories that actually produce mods and attys not even including the VV factories like Pioneer4you and the people who made the Gi2 and Variant clones, so that 3 number cant be right.
Just curious where you got that number from, plus you couldnt say all the OEMs who outsource, as that could be any factory in china that the modder chooses, not just related to vape stuff.

Then again, im not even *positive* about all that and you could be right, that's why I was curious lol

 

[Rawmade]

FT just got the KF4 clone in

 

[InMyImage]

Maybe they got ahead of the cloners by teaming up with one in advance. Could be a good strategy. Get a decent cloner set up to make a quality, working clone right out of the gate, get a cut of every one they sell, then you can double dip. Actually kinda makes sense.

I've been thinking along these lines as well given how fast the k4's clones hit the market.

 

[TheWestPole]

Yup.



http://www.fasttech.com/products/1/10006473/2018000-kayfun-4-styled-rebuildable-tank-atomizer

 

[Tom950]

price dropped to $23. Got one on order from the $16 preorder elsewhere

 

[BoomStick]

Says ships in 7 business days and the picture sure looks like an authentic. Shady. Let us know what's going on with this stuff when you guys get one in your hands please.

 

[VapedCrusader]

very excited for the taifun gt2 since i didnt even know it was coming out lol

 

[Zamazam]

There's only 3 main factories in china; who produce ALL of the vape gear for both the OEMs who outsource, and the 'clone' makers


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All based in Shenzen...

 

[Zamazam]

I'll wait on the reviews of the clones. No way in Hell am I gonna pay $180 for an atomizer.

 

[ButtKickers]

All based in Shenzen...

Yep lol

Hence

Shenzhen HCigar Limited

Shenzhen Tobeco Limited

Shenzhen Infinite Limited

Shenzhen Cigreen Limited

Etc


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[ButtKickers]

I'll wait on the reviews of the clones. No way in Hell am I gonna pay $180 for an atomizer.

You're not going to have to wait long. I was skyping with the HCigar sales manager last night, and they are boxed up, and ready to ship


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[Zamazam]

I used to be a tech rep for a Bakery Equipment dealer. Most of the parts for the high speed line ovens came from Shenzen. They have a rather large fabrication industry in that city. Spinning parts for attys and mods is small potatoes for the big guys over there. They also make a shitload of aftermarket car parts and falsely label them as OEM. Go to Pepboys or Napa and you'll find Chinese made parts galore.

 

[Zamazam]

You're not going to have to wait long. I was skyping with the HCigar sales manager last night, and they are boxed up, and ready to ship


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If you get one, let me know what you think of it.

 

[ButtKickers]

I used to be a tech rep for a Bakery Equipment dealer. Most of the parts for the high speed line ovens came from Shenzen. They have a rather large fabrication industry in that city. Spinning parts for attys and mods is small potatoes for the big guys over there. They also make a shitload of aftermarket car parts and falsely label them as OEM. Go to Pepboys or Napa and you'll find Chinese made parts galore.

I used to work in the VW/Audi performance aftermarket; so I know all too well. The funny part is, a lot of the OEM 'German' parts are also made there, then shipped to Germany for final labeling/packaging.

In my honest opinion; they aren't reverse engineering these. They are rolling off the same conveyor belt as the Svoemesto units, and are either 'seconds', or have minor inconsequential intentional differences; so Svoemesto can call them clones.


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[ButtKickers]

If you get one, let me know what you think of it.

I could probably jump on Skype, and convince her to send me a sample batch of 3-5 units for likely $30 ea, or somewhere thereabouts


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[Zamazam]

I used to work in the VW/Audi performance aftermarket; so I know all too well. The funny part is, a lot of the OEM 'German' parts are also made there, then shipped to Germany for final labeling/packaging.

In my honest opinion; they aren't reverse engineering these. They are rolling off the same conveyor belt as the Svoemesto units, and are either 'seconds', or have minor inconsequential intentional differences; so Svoemesto can call them clones.


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Svoemesto claims that the Kayfun is made in Germany. Perhaps it's just assembled there from parts (Spun in China?). You make an interesting point about seconds or units that fail the QA process. That just might be the case.

 

[ButtKickers]

Svoemesto claims that the Kayfun is made in Germany. Perhaps it's just assembled there from parts (Spun in China?). You make an interesting point about seconds or units that fail the QA process. That just might be the case.

IMO Svoemesto probably does an additional Q/C step in Germany, and then ships them out. I know what my company used to do, and others both in Europe, and the states.

We would receive the components, disassemble, inspect, reassemble, rivet on our engraved serial numbered label, box/ship them out to customers.

All the turbochargers that didn't pass our Q/C were shipped back to China at the manufacturing plants expense, and they'd ship us back replacement units, which we would inspect/label/ship, or again send back.

The stuff that we sent back was usually sold on as a 'clone' of our product, under one of the many Chinese subsidiary logos, for 20% of what we sold ours for


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[ButtKickers]

It was a fully transparent process on our end, and it was fully understood by us that our OEM supplier would be selling 'clones' of our product. We didn't care; as it didn't hurt our business one bit. Our customers wouldn't dream of using 'clones', and just like in the vaping industry; our fan boys would bash the copies in the forums, etc.

We used to privately laugh our asses off about it, but it was no secret between us manufacturers as to where our products were made.

We all had our own small machine shops where we designed, and prototyped our new turbos. Simply spread out a bunch of our freshly made Chinese turbo's on a stainless work bench, with our 5 axis Cnc machine in the background; who would question that we manufactured them in house?


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[Zamazam]

Having had a Blousch Turbo fail on my WRX, I'm not suprised.

 

[ButtKickers]

Having had a Blousch Turbo fail on my WRX, I'm not suprised.

We used to call it "the turbo lottery"

We DID spin balance our turbo's in house, to over 200,000 rpm before shipping them out. Some were perfectly balanced as we received them; some weren't.

Unfortunately not all the turbo 'manufacturers' double check the balancing in house before shipping them.




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[ButtKickers]

Back on topic

If they can build PERFECT turbo's that sustain 200,000 rpm shaft speeds, while glowing like a sub ohm coil in an rda, and ship them to us for $150 ea (we resold them for upwards of $1000) I'm confident that a 'complicated' RTA such as the Kayfun 4 can be sold for $20-30 wholesale lol


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[InMyImage]

There are some fallacies in some of these theories...

Number of companies producing the clones
Number of authentics vs clones wouldn't produce the required number of seconds to support the clone market

Shenzen has a tremendous amount of capacity. Heck it's population is larger than 46 of US states, and actually larger than the 14 lowest population states combined!

I personally think it is far more likely that they licensed them to the various companies and are taking a slice of pie that is bigger than their direct market share by itself.

 

[M5amhan]

As Todd's and P. Busardo's reviews point out, the vape of the V4 is very Kayfun-like. No surprises. Improvements boil down to better air flow and the addition of a juice valve, which may or may not be a benefit depending on how you store or pocket your rig.

The thing for me is that it's coming a bit late. I've already moved my KFLs into retirement, primarily because of limited air flow even when drilled out. At $30-$40 the Lemo solves that problem for many, particularly those who must have a glass tank. At less than $15 the Erlkonigin clone has solved the problem for me. I do have to drill it out a bit, but the result is satisfying lung hits when desired, and otherwise very Kayfun-like goodness. For stealth rigs, the Lemo drop is coming and the Erl mini clone is already here. An added benefit of both, in either size, is lighter weight. The V4 is going to be very heavy by comparison. That's a positive for some, but for me a big negative. I'm quite certain I would not choose the V4 for carrying in my shirt pocket.

So I want to try one, but there's certainly no rush. What's going into my cart today is a couple of Erlkonigin minis to add to my big one. The big one is already very pocketable because of its light weight. The little one will be even more so.

i had the same thoughts. even though i do want to try it, i dont see it beating out the lemo drop. this thing gives the best vape ive ever vaped and the size is perfect. hate huge tanks but ill still get the k4 clone since im sure there will be nano kits and modifications coming in the future

 

[ButtKickers]

There are some fallacies in some of these theories...

Number of companies producing the clones
Number of authentics vs clones wouldn't produce the required number of seconds to support the clone market

Shenzen has a tremendous amount of capacity. Heck it's population is larger than 46 of US states, and actually larger than the 14 lowest population states combined!

I personally think it is far more likely that they licensed them to the various companies and are taking a slice of pie that is bigger than their direct market share by itself.

I'm well aware of the population of china; more specifically Shenzhen. That said; there ARE only a few HUGE factories producing all of these mods, and the Authentics are produced there in many instances.

Whether or not the 'clones' are seconds, or simply ramped up production from the same assembly line is irrelevant; as I'm sure they are both seconds, and simply increased production runs of the same units.

Where's your argument, or are you simply arguing semantics? In which case I'm not going to waste my time taking this exchange with you any further; since I DO have FIRSTHAND experience dealing with Shenzhen producers in a large capacity, and am not speaking from my rectum on this subject.

Again; quote my post IN FULL CONTEXT showing where I posted 'falacies', or kindly step off sir.


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[supermarket]

At $180 for the V4, it seems as if Svoemesto really pushed the price envelope. People will buy them, but the vast majority will pass and get the clone when they come out. It seems that Svoemesto is catering to the well heeled elitist vapers, not the average everyday vaper. It's their marketing strategy, no problem with that. Svoemesto pretty much invited the cloners to spring into action.

Honestly, that has always been the case. Remember how much the original kayfun was? Over $100 for an RBA that doesn't even come with a glass tank? LAME.

While they definitely did very well in turns of sales with the kayfun, it is painfully obvious that the clone market did MUCH better.


I know so many people hate on clones.....but with companies like EHpro, Infinite, etc, we are starting to see clones that live up to a certain standard, and offer a product just as good as the original, but at a fraction of the price. As far as I'm concerned....nothing wrong with that.

 

[M5amhan]

I know so many people hate on clones.....but with companies like EHpro, Infinite, etc, we are starting to see clones that live up to a certain standard, and offer a product just as good as the original, but at a fraction of the price. As far as I'm concerned....nothing wrong with that.

there is especially nothing wrong with it because the modders know what they are doing when they take on huge manufacturing costs and take it out on the consumer. they know they could make every single product they put out under $50 and keep the quality on par with their current product and possibly even make more money. but its about brands and ego. so i dont feel bad for a second when i buy clones but i can appreciate their design, just not their business strategy

 

[supermarket]

there is especially nothing wrong with it because the modders know what they are doing when they take on huge manufacturing costs and take it out on the consumer. they know they could make every single product they put out under $50 and keep the quality on par with their current product and possibly even make more money. but its about brands and ego. so i dont feel bad for a second when i buy clones but i can appreciate their design, just not their business strategy

Exactly.

Those who buy authentics, in my opinion, aren't paying for performance so much as they are paying to have a name brand item. It isn't about performance, or quality, it is usually about cosmetics....having an "official" name brand item.

That is why so many people who buy authentics exclusively verbally attack and insult those who buy clones. It angers them when someone pays literally 1/5 what they pay, and gets a product that performs EXACTLY the same. They feel it isn't fair....for some reason...even though it was there decision to pay 5 times what everyone else is paying.


If money isn't an issue, then by all means, go for the authentic. For everyone else, clones are usually a better option, so long as you do your research, and buy a clone that is known to perform as well as the original. Not all clones are created equal, obviously.

 

[VapedCrusader]

there is especially nothing wrong with it because the modders know what they are doing when they take on huge manufacturing costs and take it out on the consumer. they know they could make every single product they put out under $50 and keep the quality on par with their current product and possibly even make more money. but its about brands and ego. so i dont feel bad for a second when i buy clones but i can appreciate their design, just not their business strategy

Exactly.. look at the Mutation X.. one of the most popular drippers on the market right now and its what 30 bucks? I couldn't see spending 200$ for a mod.. let alone a dripper - but I guess if you have money to throw around like that I can't really hate lol.

 

[VapedCrusader]

Exactly.

That is why so many people who buy authentics exclusively verbally attack and insult those who buy clones. It angers them when someone pays literally 1/5 what they pay, and gets a product that performs EXACTLY the same. They feel it isn't fair....for some reason...even though it was there decision to pay 5 times what everyone else is paying.

I smell a shit storm brewing with that comment

 

[TheWestPole]

Cheaper FT model C. Don't forget to buy some steel wool to clean up those threads.

 

[Tom950]

FT actually has 3 versions now. Original listing, Ver B, and now Ver C

 

[M5amhan]

i think the first one is the best bet, just bc of the color of the orings lol probably already said this but im waiting on tobeco or ehpro preferably ehpro. infinite also has one coming just whoever gets here first. obviously infinite will be charging a small premium

 

[TheWestPole]

I'd go for the cheapest to give it a try. If I really likee, then maybe Ehpro or Infinite or whatever. If I don't, PIF to the next victim.

 

[Lefty]

I hear from a friend who runs a shop that Infinite has recently become very competitive in their pricing (i.e. cheaper than Tobeco on some clones). It'll be interesting to see how that shakes out.

 

[M5amhan]

I hear from a friend who runs a shop that Infinite has recently become very competitive in their pricing (i.e. cheaper than Tobeco on some clones). It'll be interesting to see how that shakes out.

yea thats what they tell me too, we shall see

 

[Lance Liu]

Tobeco emailed me today saying their V4 would be available soon so well see.

Hey,Guys.I come from China.We have the kayfun 4 in stock.

 

[Lance Liu]

Just had a china vendor quote me

kayfun V4 1:1 clone $23.00 moq 10

We have 20000 sets in stock.Our unit price is $22.moq is also 10pcs.

 

[Lance Liu]

What company?

Shenzhen Xinkeda Metal Product Co.,Ltd
www.szxkdindustry.en.alibaba.com.
There are 2000 sets kayfun 4 in stock now

 

[Lance Liu]

Ladies and Gentlemen,Now you can find the kayfin 4 clone.To be honest,All is from our factory.we have already selled 5000set now,
you can buy the black kayfun 4.，Black kayfun 4 will be finished now.welcome to inquiry.Just need $22 .Factory price!!!

 

[Lance Liu]

I hear from a friend who runs a shop that Infinite has recently become very competitive in their pricing (i.e. cheaper than Tobeco on some clones). It'll be interesting to see how that shakes out.

Another company emailed me today, has the K4 and Taifun GT2 avail, already in production

Hey,Guy！We havea already 2000sets kayfun 4 clone.if you need,we can arrange the shipment on-time.Taifun gt2 can be ok on Staurday.

 

[Lance Liu]

Here is another link.

http://www.vaportekusa.com/kayfun-v4-by-tobeco-w-extra-bell-cap/

 

[Lance Liu]

Here is another link.

http://www.vaportekusa.com/kayfun-v4-by-tobeco-w-extra-bell-cap/

www.szxkdindustry.en.alibaba.com

 

[Lance Liu]

Yep lol

Hence

Shenzhen HCigar Limited

Shenzhen Tobeco Limited

Shenzhen Infinite Limited

Shenzhen Cigreen Limited

Etc


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Shenzhen Xinkeda Metal Product Co,mLtd,which have best price for the Taifun gt2,kayfun 4,AQUA v2 .In stock!!!

 

[Lance Liu]

So many high quality Kayfun 4 clone in stock.!20,000 sets!

 

[Lance Liu]

they do for their tanks at least. the billow and their kayfun clones are great

we have the kayfun 4 clone in stock now

 

[ButtKickers]

we have the kayfun 4 clone in stock now

You just spammed this motherfucker like a bauwse sir


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[Lance Liu]

You just spammed this motherfucker like a bauwse sir


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