LiPo Battery Life

[ChrisL]

Most of the DNA 200 mods coming out have LiPo battery packs. How long will a 900 mah LiPo battery last in real world vaping situatuions? Basically trying to find out how long I could vape in a day before having to charge the device again. How long would it take to charge a 900 mah LiPo with a 2amp charger on average?

 

[battery bro]

mAh = milliamp hours, so 900 mAh =0.90 Ah

You can then divide the amp hours by your amp charge.

That leaves you with ~27 minutes of continuous use.

If each time you puff it takes 3 seconds, that leaves you with about 500 puffs. (albeit weaker puffs with less voltage towards the end.)

 

[TheVapingDevil]

I have recently learned more about these Lipo batteries. Many of us think in terms is Mah as more is better. I am having a DNA200 built and have a few Lipo options: a 1850 100C or 2200 25C. Since there are two cells it tells me the 1850 would be a total of 5550 Mah and the 2200 would be 6600 Mah. Seems like an easy decision.. However to figure out continuous amps there is a formula where the "C" Value is actually the critical number. You take the Mah, divide by 1000 and multiply by the C factor. So the 1850 is: 1850 / 1000 = 1.85 x 100 is 185 continuous amps avail. The 2200 battery is only 55 continuous amps. A pretty big difference. The DNA200 only needs 23 amps to feed it so in reality the 1850 battery would last you a much longer time. I have copied some text from the mod builder below that may help those of you including myself who are wondering about or just getting into the Lipo / Dna200 scene:

Just like all batteries, LiPo batteries have amp limits on them. The amp limits of 18650's was typically referred to as its amp limit, where as on a LiPo the amp limit is referred in it's "C" rating. To determine the continuous amp limit of a LiPo battery you take the maH divide it by 1000 and multiply that by it's C rating. For example battery four's amp limit would be:

2200 / 1000 = 2.2 * 25 = 55 continuous amp limit for battery 4.

Where as battery 3 C rating is 100! This breaks down to:

1850/1000 = 1.85 * 100 = 185 continuous amp limit for battery 3.

The DNA200 only requires 23 amps from the battery. This is the most it can "pull" from the battery, so any of the batteries we offer are exceeding of the requirements of the DNA200. Battery 4 and Battery 3 both far exceed the requirements of the DNA200. For this reason, I typically recommend battery 4 to customers because battery 3 is so much more expensive.

Battery 3 was made, and developed for a very specific application; something that requires extremely high amp input! This is why battery 3 is so expensive. It takes a lot of money to develop a battery that can tolerate, and be safe to those amp limits. To be clear though, in the grand scheme of amp limits, battery four has an incredibly high amp limit as well (relative to all of the batteries in the world) and would suit a DNA200 just as well as battery 3.

In the tests' we've done battery 3 did not show any signs of lower voltage drop (battery sag while firing) than battery 4. We've concluded the only difference between the two batteries, when it applies to using them in the DNA200, is with battery 3 you will get longer battery life. No matter which battery you choose, if you ever feel the battery is no longer performing as it should, or not maintaining a charge, XXXXXX will replace it for you

 

[Jon@LiionWholesale]

I have recently learned more about these Lipo batteries. Many of us think in terms is Mah as more is better. I am having a DNA200 built and have a few Lipo options: a 1850 100C or 2200 25C. Since there are two cells it tells me the 1850 would be a total of 5550 Mah and the 2200 would be 6600 Mah.

If I understand this chipset correctly it needs 11.1V. So the three cells are to get it to 11.1V, not to increase mAh. If you put cells in series mAh stays the same, you don't add the mAh of the cells. You would need 9 cells to do what you're talking about. If the battery was 5550 mAh or 6600mAh they would tell you that right? They wouldn't say 1850 or 2200.

I was under the impression that these are all small lipos they're using with these, am I wrong? I haven't actually seen one. But they're not like the same size as remote control car packs right?

The DNA200 only needs 23 amps to feed it so in reality the 1850 battery would last you a much longer time.

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here, longer than what? Obviously the 2200mAh will last longer than the 1850mAh.

 

[Jon@LiionWholesale]

Another thing about my experience with LiPo cells in general....they're mostly made in china and so they suffer from chinese battery rating syndrome where they rate the batteries much higher than they can actually do similar to Efest/Imren/etc 18650 cells. These ratings sound like the same thing - 100C is insane.

 

[TheVapingDevil]

If I understand this chipset correctly it needs 11.1V. So the three cells are to get it to 11.1V, not to increase mAh. If you put cells in series mAh stays the same, you don't add the mAh of the cells. You would need 9 cells to do what you're talking about. If the battery was 5550 mAh or 6600mAh they would tell you that right? They wouldn't say 1850 or 2200.

I was under the impression that these are all small lipos they're using with these, am I wrong? I haven't actually seen one. But they're not like the same size as remote control car packs right?



I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here, longer than what? Obviously the 2200mAh will last longer than the 1850mAh.

I am still trying to get my head around these facts too since I have only started researching the Lipos in the past few days. I did get an inquiry back from the builder regarding the batteries. John you are correct the 2200 will provide more battery life than the 1850 battery but the 1850 will provide more continuous current which is not a major concern here because the DNA200 board can only pull 23 amps max from the battery. Not sure if that makes any more sense but it seems logical to me in my early learning of these....
Yea the China batteries as we all know are prone to false advertising...

 

[Neunerball]

As a hobby R/C Collective pitch Helicopter pilot, I know a few things about LiPo batteries. However, I think the best information can be found here at http://www.rchelicopterfun.com/rc-lipo-batteries.html

 

[NemesisVaper]

Seems to me that even though the battery type has changed, a lot of commonalities still exist when talking of batyery life in a mod.

The 900mAh 3 cell LiPo does indeed only have a capacity of 900 mAh, but like with a series 18650 mod, the DNA will be stepping down from 11.1V nominal, so batyery life will be a lot longer than mAh count would suggest. Even so, I can't see a 900mAh 3 cell lasting very long at high wattages. Just like with 18650s there will come a point where you won't be able to Vape at a certain wattage and will have to either charge or turn the mod down, so if you do Vape high wattage then battery life will be even worse.

Way too many variables to give a useful answer as to how long a battery will last someone.

 

[Jon@LiionWholesale]

I mean at its core it's still the same principles. 900mAh 11.1V is 10 W-hr, assuming you can extract the full 900mAh from the battery before it sags to low voltage (i.e. best case). A 10 W-hr battery will give you 10 W for an hour. Running it at 200W....that means you'll get 1/20 of an hour. In other words, 3 minutes. If you take 5 second pulls that means 36 pulls before it's done.

1800 mAh would obviously be double that, and 2200mAh would be a little less than 2.5x that.

Not very long...

On the plus side it will charge quickly, a 2A charger charging a 900mAh battery is 27 minutes.

 

[f1r3b1rd]

To give a real world answer ... Ive built a few robotic systems and quadcopters so I know the science, but for those who read the thread and see only Greek.
With the 900mah lipo in the vaporshart (same battery sold by evolv) I get 6-6.5 hours at 50w with a 70w preheat in temp mode.
To do that i lowered the screen brightness to 40% and set the timeout to 1sec. Before doing that I was getting 5 hours.

 

[Jon@LiionWholesale]

To give a real world answer ... Ive built a few robotic systems and quadcopters so I know the science, but for those who read the thread and see only Greek.
With the 900mah lipo in the vaporshart (same battery sold by evolv) I get 6-6.5 hours at 50w with a 70w preheat in temp mode.
To do that i lowered the screen brightness to 40% and set the timeout to 1sec. Before doing that I was getting 5 hours.

So if you were to estimate actual vaping time, do the calculations line up? They'd say an average 60W with 900mAh would give about 10 minutes of vaping time (or 120 5-second pulls from it). That'd be one pull every 3 minutes or so over 6 hours, if I didn't fat finger the calculator.

 

[f1r3b1rd]

So if you were to estimate actual vaping time, do the calculations line up? They'd say an average 60W with 900mAh would give about 10 minutes of vaping time (or 120 5-second pulls from it). That'd be one pull every 3 minutes or so over 6 hours, if I didn't fat finger the calculator.

I guess, I don't count or time my puffs.
I...Just vape, sorry was trying to be helpful

 

[TheVapingDevil]

I guess, I don't count or time my puffs.
I...Just vape, sorry was trying to be helpful

I guess I look at it like the 2200 will be better than the 900 and li n ecsll of us a charger is always,nearby

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S5 Dumbphone

 

[Jon@LiionWholesale]

I guess, I don't count or time my puffs.
I...Just vape, sorry was trying to be helpful

It is helpful, sorry didn't mean to make you feel not helpful! Just trying to get a general idea obviously, I don't expect you to have perfectly timed vapes just curious if it sounds like it's in the ballpark.

 

[TheVapingDevil]

I think many of us will learn quickly about these lipos once we use them more

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S5 Dumbphone

 

[f1r3b1rd]

I guess I look at it like the 2200 will be better than the 900 and li n ecsll of us a charger is always,nearby

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S5 Dumbphone

Well, ideally I would love 2000 or 2200 Mah. But I opted for form factor. (I like little ones) lol
And you know im getting another mod with a bigger battery.
Like I said before, if it weren't for a 2a charger the 900mah battery would not work for me....at all!

 

[TheVapingDevil]

Well, ideally I would love 2000 or 2200 Mah. But I opted for form factor. (I like little ones) lol
And you know im getting another mod with a bigger battery.
Like I said before, if it weren't for a 2a charger the 900mah battery would not work for me....at all!

This is very true. It's Gonna Be Fun To Watch Our Experiences With These.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S5 Dumbphone

 

[f1r3b1rd]

It is helpful, sorry didn't mean to make you feel not helpful! Just trying to get a general idea obviously, I don't expect you to have perfectly timed vapes just curious if it sounds like it's in the ballpark.

That sounds about right, immediate thought though is that I vape more than that.
I will say, I use a 13k mah backup battery with a 2.4 amp charger to recharge the mod sporadically during the day to get me through without having to be concerned with not having enough battery. If it gets half way down and im at work, I just top it off(takes 30 minutes) or if im in traffic I plug it into the tablet charger in my truck, when I get wherever im going its topped off.
I got into that habbit with the vsdna30 which was a tiny lipo, but 30w would kill it quick without topping that off to. I did a few cold runs without charging to get a baseline so that I could judge what and where it'll get me through without needing a backup and for when the second dna200 mod gets here ill know when I need what. Especially since im considering thinning the heard and just going with these.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00MP..._rd_t=36701&pf_rd_p=2068141862&pf_rd_i=mobile

 

[NemesisVaper]

Doesn't the evolve software gave some very advanced monitoring functions? I'm betting there's some thin in there that would give a more precise answer figures wise. One would need the time and the inclination to get to know the software and gather the info from full to empty though, which may not interest all.

The puff counter on my Koopor Mini was very useful in my battery testing. Nothing too advanced, just wanted to know which cells would benefit me the most in terms of cost and longevity. Interestingly the HG2 lasted no longer at 60W than any others. Vape time was longer, but not 500mAh longer, not even 100mAh longer in my opinion.

Something going round YouTube at the moment is setting your battery capacity correctly in the evolve software. Apparently by default, all early shipped DNA200 mods are "told" that the pack they have hooked up is a 900mAh, even if it isn't. People seem to think changing this gives better battery life. I'm not so sure. Surely the mod will be monitoring battery voltage? I can see the setting making a difference for statistics monitoring but not battery life. I could be wrong though.

 

[f1r3b1rd]

Doesn't the evolve software gave some very advanced monitoring functions? I'm betting there's some thin in there that would give a more precise answer figures wise. One would need the time and the inclination to get to know the software and gather the info from full to empty though, which may not interest all.

The puff counter on my Koopor Mini was very useful in my battery testing. Nothing too advanced, just wanted to know which cells would benefit me the most in terms of cost and longevity. Interestingly the HG2 lasted no longer at 60W than any others. Vape time was longer, but not 500mAh longer, not even 100mAh longer in my opinion.

Something going round YouTube at the moment is setting your battery capacity correctly in the evolve software. Apparently by default, all early shipped DNA200 mods are "told" that the pack they have hooked up is a 900mAh, even if it isn't. People seem to think changing this gives better battery life. I'm not so sure. Surely the mod will be monitoring battery voltage? I can see the setting making a difference for statistics monitoring but not battery life. I could be wrong though.

I was told from a friend of mine with the hcigar that it made a big difference.

 

[NemesisVaper]

I was told from a friend of mine with the hcigar that it made a big difference.

I'd love to know what that setting is actually doing to the mod. I've seen some say it works and others say it makes no difference for them. Odd...

 

[f1r3b1rd]

I'd love to know what that setting is actually doing to the mod. I've seen some say it works and others say it makes no difference for them. Odd...

Placebo

 

[NemesisVaper]

Placebo

I tend to agree with that mate. I can't fathom any way it would need to actually know battery mAh and watt hours other than for the graphing and analysis tools, to get the graph scales correct.

I'm still going to keep my mind slightly open, as the DNA200 is very advanced so maybe it is capable of using several pieces of data Inc cell voltage and it's capacity. Seems unlikely to me though, and doesn't tally with anything I know about cells, electronics and mods.

Not trying to say some kind of battery awesome or owt, I'm just a geek with a keen interest that loves sharing info and learning new stuff.

 

[f1r3b1rd]

I tend to agree with that mate. I can't fathom any way it would need to actually know battery mAh and watt hours other than for the graphing and analysis tools, to get the graph scales correct.

I'm still going to keep my mind slightly open, as the DNA200 is very advanced so maybe it is capable of using several pieces of data Inc cell voltage and it's capacity. Seems unlikely to me though, and doesn't tally with anything I know about cells, electronics and mods.

Not trying to say some kind of battery awesome or owt, I'm just a geek with a keen interest that loves sharing info and learning new stuff.

I dunno, in my mind ll I cam think is maybe it knows how many mah are in the pack, it knows what its used and just displays the difference? Maybe those that saw the difference just followed the display, in other words the power was there, just not shown?
I dunno, I'm talking out my ass

 

[NemesisVaper]

I dunno, in my mind ll I cam think is maybe it knows how many mah are in the pack, it knows what its used and just displays the difference? Maybe those that saw the difference just followed the display, in other words the power was there, just not shown?
I dunno, I'm talking out my ass

Nope, you're not talking out your ass, I get the idea of what you mean