Looking for cloud chasing protips

Discussion in 'Cloud Chasers Corner' started by twisted_transistor, Jul 15, 2014.

  1. MyDixieWrecked

    MyDixieWrecked New Member

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    Sony vtc4
     
  2. f1r3b1rd

    f1r3b1rd #Team Jimi Supporter Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    one battery?
     
  3. f1r3b1rd

    f1r3b1rd #Team Jimi Supporter Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    4.2v with a 0.06ohm load is 70A and 294w
    no matter how you slice it, Math is Math. It is irresponsible at best, to go telling people whom you don't know to do X because Y has not happened to you.

    here are the bench tests for the sony vtc4, One of the best batteries available to us, indeed. But, it is a 30a battery. Forcing it to more than double its output, is not what I would call safe.

    its a nice way to become a statistic.

    image.jpeg.jpg image1.jpeg.jpg image2.jpeg.jpg ^528B3888AB67CC1D6AF87A401FF0306B7C7D1015AA19EC6FB7^pimgpsh_fullsize_distr.jpg
     
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  4. 5150sick

    5150sick Under Ground Hustler Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    It's Called Science, Bro
     
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  5. Crackizzle

    Crackizzle New Member

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    Made an account just for this. Lol

    So there is science in rating continuous discharge. AND you should stay within your continuous rating for a build you're carrying all day. What is "continuous discharge" though? It's a rating of how many amps a cell can give from 4.2v down to 2.5v, without stopping, full on the whole time. The cells are actually rated off nominal capacity as a result of this. So what is "burst" or "pulse" discharge? This is a manufacturer rating that applies only when the battery is completely full, it can deliver high current, usually in the neighborhood of double its continuous rating, for a short time.

    So, why haven't these folks died, battery sag. Modern comp mods are essentially 0 resistance, but your battery is not. Mooch's database puts typical IR ~23 milliohm or 0.023 ohm. Going below that will cause your battery to discharge into itself and pop, but that is very very low. It does limit how much you can really get out of these cells though. 3.0 volts is likely the max any cell will deliver to these coils, as the cell itself cannot keep up.

    Last part, most of these guys you're talking down to are using SS wire. That's also used for temp control. Do you know why? It rises in resistance when heating up. The mod detects the rise in resistance and using the TCR is has determines the temperature of the wire. On a mech it's not identical, but a 0.05 cold resistance could easily be over 0.10 ohm functional resistance, just with a pre-heat boost.

    Sorry It's long, people trying to dogmatize science into their own agenda irks me. Science has no agenda, just information. If you were willing to learn, maybe you'd not be so hateful towards people who don't vape like you. Some of us can articulate why super sub ohming can be ok.
     
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  6. Capn.poodle

    Capn.poodle New Member

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    What kind of garbage human being advises a .06 or lower to someone?! That's super dangerous and you would feel horrible if this person took your advice and injured themselves. You should never build below a .08, and for cloud comps, typically the rules state that you have to build a .1 or higher.
     
  7. PrinceWizdom

    PrinceWizdom New Member ECF Refugee

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    0.5- 0.45 ohms on a dual series 18650 mod like the cricket(not the most reliable series mod though) will give you enough clouds without having to build so low on a parallel and put so much stress on the batts. (0.4 is fine if you have a well made high grade series box like the vcp pig and if you know what your doing.)
     
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  8. merlin7734

    merlin7734 Member For 1 Year

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    I am planning a dual 18650 parallel build on a Cherry Bomber as I get into cloud chasing. I will look at between .45-.55 ohm and see how that goes.

    Thanks for the advice as I piggy back info off this thread.


    Sent from my MX2020 Secure Satellite Uplink.
     
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  9. PrinceWizdom

    PrinceWizdom New Member ECF Refugee

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    Actually I'd strongly advise you to do your research before you buy a cherry bomber as there have been many that had problems with it, and here is just a small example. Also i have seen other problems like auto firing, battery venting etc just to name a few. Anyway as long as you know what your doing you should be good :shades:
     
  10. martnargh

    martnargh Silver Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    I have a cherry bomber, never had any problems with it. There are better options out there for the price though, imo.
    In the comps i been in the tubes are the main event, some outlaw, but mostly tubes. In outlaw anything goes so you could get like a 4s pwm box and a 30mm mason or something and thatll do damage no matter how poor your technique is, which is why i dont really like outlaw.
    Some tube comps will havr a min resistance of .1ohm some wont... ive even seen min resistance of .2..
    Learning one coil option wont help, since some comps are more diverse.
    I been using mad rabbit wire a lot lately, since its the only nichrome90 i know of. You need like 8 wraps of 21g on a 3mm of this stuff for a .08, rampup is almost non existant. I got a 7 wrap right now, clocks in at .07ohm. This is not even a comp build its my adv.

    Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk
     
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  11. merlin7734

    merlin7734 Member For 1 Year

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    I have no desire to go quite that low. I will probably set my bottom end around .4 ohm. I use 25Rs and HG2s.


    Sent from my MX2020 Secure Satellite Uplink.
     
  12. cloudking666

    cloudking666 New Member

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    On my Conspiracy RDA by Ohm Nation I run a 24 gauge 10 wrap kanthal microcoil, it's my all around good, simple set up. It hold up the the best of them. It's also all about the exhale, the exhale is what makes the cloud look good. In hale should be fast and sharp, slower for more density. And the hale should be fast, but at the end of you breath blow faster with your mouth slightly faster. It blows the first part Of your breath out further making the mass of the cloud larger.

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  13. cloudking666

    cloudking666 New Member

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    [​IMG]

    This is just a picture, but in real time it's different. Cloud extends out of frame and continues

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  14. FOX09

    FOX09 New Member

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    Soooo say i have a unregulated 2 battery box and 2 LG 18650's with 3.7V and a .02 ohm from 24g double twisted wire 5 wrap on both sides on a tfv8 baby beast.... That spells disaster doesn't it?
     
  15. gbalkam

    gbalkam Silver Contributor Member For 1 Year ECF Refugee

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    Offhand, Im going to say yes, for a few reasons.. correct me if I am wrong on any...
    1) 0.02 ohm is pretty close to the internal resistance of your batteries, the closer you go to 0.00 ohm, the greater your risk.
    2) You didn't mention which LG you are using, or the CDR. For each battery you need to know how it will handle stress. For example, on a single 25r (20A) I can build at UPTO a 56A draw for 2.5 seconds, with a 30 second rest. I could go as high as 70A but that is beyond my "ARE YOU CRAZY??" limit. LOL.. So you need to know how hot your cells get and how fast they reach 100C which is the standard DO NOT EXCEED temp.
    3) This is strictly for cloud builds.. you would do better on an RDA such as a mutationX (I have V4) using dual parallel coils, no twists. (IOW 0 pitch) to maximize your surface area and reduce resistance. YOU should know what a safe resistance to build at is according to which batteries you use, how you vape (inhale/ exhale) and how much stress your batteries can handle. In other words, NEVER try this on a rebranded battery. Samsung, Sony, LG only. You need to TRUST what is UNDER the wrapper, not what the wrapper says.
    Even better a quad coil build with a separate wick for each coil and re-juice every hit.

    4th and most important, you need to know what your rig can do, not what I can do on mine. So although you can use my examples as examples, you can't use them as a how to post. It doesn't work that way. This is most important because it means you have to already know how to build coils and what is reasonably safe for your rig. I have been called an asshole for this reason.. I can't tell anyone what batteries they are using and the person using them has to know for themself what they can do. Me telling you would not do you (meaning the other person) any good, they need to know where to find the info and how to read it for EVERY battery they use.

    I find a common misconception is that lower ohm = larger clouds. This is only true with mechanical mods, where you have to lower your ohms enough to reach the wattage needed to power your coil. On a regulated mod, you only have to get your resistance low enough to achieve max power output from your mods 2ndary controller. Example..
    A) 200w mod. 0.60 ohm coil. Voltage= 4.2. Formula 4.2 times 2 cells = 8.4 then sqr that 70.56 watts / 0.60 resistance .. = 117 watts MAX.
    B 200w mod, 0.30 ohm parallel coil (same number of "loops" as above... = 70.56 watts / 0.30 resistance = 235 watts (200w max)

    In both A and B the coils have EXACTLY the same surface area and mass. The build changed the resistance which affected the max power available.
    This is also important with mechanical mods, since you know to run that coil, you will need 235 watts and must build accordingly. Even if using 2 cells, that is still pretty high and well above your CDR.

    Now as you see, there is a lot of math involved and a lot of info needed by the end user as to how their battery will handle the stress. That said, it sometimes makes us seem like AHoles when we have to tell people to do their homework, but it isn't us being mean, it is us teaching people how to find and use the information.

    Now back to the original question.. there is no way in hell I would build a coil at 0.02 ohm. You MIGHT get away with it for a hit or 2 every couple minutes on a top grade battery (such as samsung 25r.. although I hear there are others now that are better) but I wouldn't take the chance. It isn't about how low you can build, it is about how well your build performs, how much lung capacity you have and how you exhale. All these are more important than low resistance. Which is why someone with a 0.08 ohm build will kick your butt in a competition using the build you described. :)
     
  16. FOX09

    FOX09 New Member

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    Haha no i understand and i know the limits on my own mods for both regulated and unregulated and mt 2500mAh 3.7v batteries and i just found it extremely amusing at how low i got it to go with the size of the coils, theyre as big as i could fit in the rebuildable tfv8 cloud beasts coil. Decided to google the lowest anyone does and read up and before i even thought about hitting it i realized it was a bomb
     
  17. martnargh

    martnargh Silver Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    Old ass thread. Grand prizes at comps are always tubes. Outlaw comps are secondary al9ng with trick comps.
    Tube is king.

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  18. gbalkam

    gbalkam Silver Contributor Member For 1 Year ECF Refugee

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    I kind of figured you did, but didn't want to assume you did 100%.
    I have a Temple 30mm RDA I am DYING to put a quad parallel build on, but my 200w box just wont push that much wire. Wouldnt even attempt it on a mech. I am figuring well above 300w prob closer to 340ish.

    LOL I'm running a triple parallel single coil on my kanger toptank mini RBA... 7 wraps.. (so 21 loops of wire).. I have to run it over 70W. but for a single coil build.. it puts out an impressive plume.
    edit.. make that 60 watts.. coil and wick is getting a bit older now, so less air coming through. lol.


    The thread is on going as new gear and info becomes available. No need to have 30 separate threads for the same topic, right?
     
  19. martnargh

    martnargh Silver Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    Fair enough. You have an interesting way to quote just little excerts from my posts.

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