Looks like good news.. Trump speaks and says they are looking to raise the legal age to 21

Discussion in '#BANTHIS' started by f1r3b1rd, Nov 8, 2019.

  1. f1r3b1rd

    f1r3b1rd Phantom Pilot Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Diamond Contributor VU Challenge Team Member For 5 Years

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  2. f1r3b1rd

    f1r3b1rd Phantom Pilot Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Diamond Contributor VU Challenge Team Member For 5 Years

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  3. lordmage

    lordmage Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Gold Contributor ECF Refugee Member For 5 Years

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    more on the same https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/whi...-ban-flavored-vape-products/story?id=66763834

    snip
    FDA is moving to remove the products in part because they haven't applied for the agency's approval or been signed off on as a safe alternative to cigarettes. Even as FDA or other agencies move to take the products off the market tobacco companies can apply through that formal process to convince regulators their product helps public health overall by providing a less dangerous alternative to traditional cigarettes.
     
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  4. gsmit1

    gsmit1 Gold Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    I am committed to positions and principles, not persons or parties. I have no problem criticizing or praising ANYbody. Depending on what the topic is at the moment.

    Keep that in mind when I say if there is anybody in this equation who really doesn't care what anybody else thinks, it's Donald Trump.

    Why? Because he is not a career politician. He is super rich and powerful in his own right and uniquely has no direct personal interest in what vaping can do or not do for him. He also has enough opposition in his own party to not really care what they think either. The incumbent always gets the nomination unless they die or don't want it. He does what he wants. For better or worse.

    With regard to our community, that may wind up being better.
     
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  5. Vape Fan

    Vape Fan More like I am now, than I was before VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    Just to clarify, the snip is ABC journalism not a quote or part of the announcement, things we already knew.

    Hopefully the "big paper" is positive for vaping and adults vaping flavors.
     
  6. f1r3b1rd

    f1r3b1rd Phantom Pilot Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Diamond Contributor VU Challenge Team Member For 5 Years

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    I don't care who does what in politics. I'm of the thought that the system is broken and we the people have zero say so in who takes what office. It's all a sham.

    What I do care about is what thay body as a whole does as it relates to the things important to me. In this case with vaping.

    As it appears for the time being, I'm hoping this giant piece of paper he is referring to does about what he's alluding to. If he's looking to raise the age, that's not really a big deal for any of us. If he is looking to protect the jobs created by the industry, than we shouldn't be affected to much.
    I've thought for a while now that industry now, is to big for the government to squash, it looks like thay may indeed be the case.
     
  7. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell The Frugal Vapist VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    The FDA cannot do the nationwide 21 age thing.
    Either law passed or perhaps executive order would be required.
     
  8. lordmage

    lordmage Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Gold Contributor ECF Refugee Member For 5 Years

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    yep and trump may do that or close plus something about flavors i bet
     
  9. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell The Frugal Vapist VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    I expect they would have to raise the age to 21 on ALL tobacco products not just vaping stuff.
     
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  10. f1r3b1rd

    f1r3b1rd Phantom Pilot Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Diamond Contributor VU Challenge Team Member For 5 Years

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    I dont see them completely removing non tobacco flavors. I can see taxing, limiting the available flavors, labeling and bottle restrictions.
    Just glad I diy
     
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  11. lordmage

    lordmage Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Gold Contributor ECF Refugee Member For 5 Years

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    yep but once they do that they still keep saying think of the kids bullshit.
     
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  12. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell The Frugal Vapist VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    I will wait to see what happens next week. I hold no faith in Trump Talk.
     
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  13. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell The Frugal Vapist VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    I hope it does not happen but per the deeming regs it will happen next year for any unapproved flavors and tobacco as well.
    Stress filled next 6 months or so for vapers.
     
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  14. lordmage

    lordmage Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Gold Contributor ECF Refugee Member For 5 Years

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    just hope a bottle of nic dont get floor taxed to the point you have to take out as loan.

    i see them doing several paths to controlling the market without all out banning
    starting with a Full Tobacco 21 , then we will have PMTA to control what is allowed to be marketed and sold. The Key points i am seeing lately is that they are separating Sealed systems as E-cigs and open systems are component parts of those systems.

    so vendors will be able to sell a kit the might need some user completion to avoid PMTA somewhat...

    Juice will most likely get some kind of labeling standard to make them less attractive to kids but deeming will kill it unless we get alot of vendors to either get approval or a reduced harm test like an NRT gets.
     
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  15. DonBaldy

    DonBaldy Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    I'm trying to hold onto a very slim hope that this "paper" will also do something about the tyrannical, bullshit deeming regs. As we all know they are simply a way to defacto ban/eliminate vaping as a threat to big tobacco. Plus they'll destroy that destroy the industry and the jobs to which he's alluded.

    I know it's a false hope, but I can dream.
     
  16. VapeJunkie

    VapeJunkie Member For 4 Years

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    Well the one good thing out of this interview is it sounds like nothing is rushed and finalized before the rally in DC tomorrow. Maybe some of those making these decisions will listen and think before the announcement is made next week.... Killing all flavors but a few will still put most vape shops out of business and he sounded as if that was an issue to him.

    I understand Trump Talk, and seeing is believing, but I think we might be coming out of this better than we thought leading up to the announcement.... Hoping anyways.....
     
  17. f1r3b1rd

    f1r3b1rd Phantom Pilot Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Diamond Contributor VU Challenge Team Member For 5 Years

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    The one upside I saw was the mention of jobs. If that was important enough to mention in a "shoot" interview, by a guy known to speak his mind no matter what, than it's probably something on the forefront. If they want preserve the jobs made by a grass roots industry, than they have to ensure the items sold by the industry remain easily available.
     
  18. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell The Frugal Vapist VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    then they will have to redo the deeming regs?
     
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  19. DonBaldy

    DonBaldy Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    That’s my slim hope.
     
  20. Vape Fan

    Vape Fan More like I am now, than I was before VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    That's what I was thinking as well, esp if that big paper mentions any devices
     
  21. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell The Frugal Vapist VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    Yep I do not think that the president can piecemeal modify the Deeming Regs by EO.
    The only think I can think of is partially enforcing the Deeming regs for now. Such as hitting all sealed cart systems or limiting nic to 20 mg or something like that.
    but they cannot limit places where vape stuff is sold or pick a particular device or brand I would think.

    But come watt May...
     
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  22. Vape Fan

    Vape Fan More like I am now, than I was before VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    :giggle: Sometimes, at some point any news is good news.
     
  23. Rhianne

    Rhianne Platinum Contributor ECF Refugee

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    Well, I think the vape industry has been one of the few industries to really thrive in this crappy economy. So killing it really wouldn’t be smart. But this is a very tangled web here with all these different players and motives. :hopeful:
     
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  24. Huckleberried

    Huckleberried Terrible wingman. Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 5 Years

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    I saw a brief snippet of an interview this morning, too. I know we'll all remain skeptical, with still a glimmer of hope inside, since he did mention jobs and he's about the economy. Time will tell. I know we'd all love to see better than we've been hearing over the last couple months.
     
  25. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell The Frugal Vapist VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    I am still thinking that ultimately all ejuice sold will have to be FDA approved.
     
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  26. gsmit1

    gsmit1 Gold Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    I don't like the way he said (in usual Trump fashion) "we're gonna do flavors," Whatever that means.

    Ironically, he IS the only one in this equation in a decision making capacity who I believe has any chance of thinking independently. Not because he's a great guy and a friend of vapers, but exactly because he's an egomaniac who doesn't like anybody else telling him what to think.

    On the other hand, he wouldn't know what a mod was if I handed him one and he's going to be heavily dependent on which way his advisors color the situation.
     
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  27. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell The Frugal Vapist VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    I feel that his only concern in this is maybe losing votes if he comes down too hard. Correction if he lets the FDA come down too hard.
    Not that I think that if vaping was totally squashed that very many of his supporters would vote against him over it.
     
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  28. gsmit1

    gsmit1 Gold Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    Yes, but whatever else he is, he IS a tremendously experienced businessman who is used to moving in highfalutin circles. In his mind, HE will decide what will cost him votes.
     
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  29. lordmage

    lordmage Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Gold Contributor ECF Refugee Member For 5 Years

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    deeming aside i think one key item said between him and that HHS rep earlier...

    E-cigs not vaper's are the target and focus right now since those are what kids and teens use according to there poll BS. They see E-cigs like Juul as the problem and that's why Juul recently pulled mint before they will have to i bet.

    the HHS Rep said they meaning HHS and the FDA have no authority over shops which indirectly they do thur the Deeming unless they are separating Sealed complete E-cig (pod) kits from the Open System kits we all use to some extent.

    so one pathway i see is that they use the Deeming as it stands on the Seal Pod systems like Juul and have to come up with a different framework for the open systems.

    Yes there Both ENDS and the deeming could be used on the source of the freebase nic but i think they know it will be harder to enforce on the end user. they are after the companies like Juul and Smok and to some extent those House Line juices...

    The way i see it is the Deeming is for (Juul,Smok,Jam monster for example) The deeming could also ally to online vendors who sell there own Juice line or pod system) Brick and mortars for a faked example mom and pop vape shop with no website who only resell what they get from distributors or other vendors are outside the scope of the deeming unless they make a house line of juice or help a customer assemble there kit.

    The deeming is just that the guide lines for the manufacturers and Vendors who are within the scope...
    now some if not all the current products are gone Per the Deeming in May 2020. anything changed even the label (unless the change was to comply with Labeling rules in the deeming) or added after Aug 7 or 8 i forget the year 2008 ish but i am sure The Cromwell or others will fill that in.
    will not be allowed to be marketed or sold. unless they change the Deeming with a new comment period or decide not to enforce it completely.

    all that has happened so far was the court ordered them to start doing something in May but if they decided that something is remove pod systems from C-stores and with executive order make all tobacco a @21 or older thing then they complied with the court order. the rest of the PMTA enforcement is within there power to enforce or not.

    Now We know a with the PMTA some have auto failed for what ever reason to the tune of 834 ish from that video with the vaping greek
    we also know some 900ish have submitted so something was passed and i suspect it to be mostly NRT, pod systems

    Now if we could get a two animal study done and prove it safe per what Gottlib said then Vapes could fall outside the deeming since they would be NRT then.

    there will be several roads to take some more expensive then the rest.
    there will most likely be a vaping 2.0 thing where an unflavored Nic shot is passed thur PMTA then is added to a Hemp drink flavoring who knows

    Trump does know one thing for a fact he will do what he wants and either deal with what comes after. since there still talking impeachment who the fuck knows. it is a buit funny that the media is now looking to vaping and the whole impeachment thing is flying under it if at all.


    what ever they do the preppers will be fine for a time. What i am sad for are the new users and those who want to stop smoking but wont use vapes due to this whole misinformation campaign that is going on.
     
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