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Mooch’s Minding Your Mech’s series

Discussion in 'Unregulated (Mechanical) Mods' started by KingPin!, May 28, 2018.

  1. KingPin!

    KingPin! In my defence, I was left unsupervised ^^ Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 1 Year VU Challenge Team Reviewer

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    should be interesting! Looking forward to seeing what he comes up with in future vids



    Haven’t seen anyone using the equipment Mooch is planning to use yet should throw out fair results accross different areas
     
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  2. KingPin!

    KingPin! In my defence, I was left unsupervised ^^ Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 1 Year VU Challenge Team Reviewer

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    If anyone isn’t familiar with @Mooch ‘s awesome community work you’ll find more info in this thread (it includes the links to his blog and his main tables and vids)

    http://vapingunderground.com/threads/moochs-video-library-and-battery-table-links.384867/

    Any new comers to mechs (or indeed regulated mods, which battery to use and safely) I highly recommend that you take the time to go through the relevant videos in the link above as part of your “safety first” research

    I watched all of them and they are pitched at a
    suitable entry level, which will help get your head around it all (especially if you watch them in order):)
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2018
  3. Ms. Trixy

    Ms. Trixy A mech in your pocket? Or are you glad to see me? VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 2 Years ECF Refugee Reddit Exile

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    Amazing man. Genius in his field...and in OURS!
     
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  4. KingPin!

    KingPin! In my defence, I was left unsupervised ^^ Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 1 Year VU Challenge Team Reviewer

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    Testing Issues, They affect performance too

     
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  5. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell The Frugal Vapist VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    Mooch is GREAT!

    Some battery rewrappers are even putting more accurate ratings on their wrappers due to the work that Mooch has done.

    I would love to see him make a decent living from his work for vaping.
     
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  6. KingPin!

    KingPin! In my defence, I was left unsupervised ^^ Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 1 Year VU Challenge Team Reviewer

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    See so much bench testing in reviews and stuff but few present the equipment and methods they use to go through it all ...definately appreciate this information personally.

    Remember Dean the biker knocked something together to test mech performances under load but this is next level in comparison :xD:

    Wonder if at some point we will see differences with results others have posted?
     
  7. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell The Frugal Vapist VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    And he is setting up to do PWM testing.

    I figure some mod makers are dreading that :)
     
  8. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell The Frugal Vapist VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    Perhaps if Mooch established the Battery/Mod testing standards for the govt WHEN they implement standards we would get a less bad deal out of it?
    It is only a matter of time until it happens anyway. I would rather someone like Mooch was running the show.
     
  9. KingPin!

    KingPin! In my defence, I was left unsupervised ^^ Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 1 Year VU Challenge Team Reviewer

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    I have no doubt he will be/ already is engaged in one form or another
     
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  10. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell The Frugal Vapist VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    he has dropped a few hints in that direction from time to time.

    I would vote for Mooch for Battery Czar.
     
  11. sultan

    sultan VU Donator Member For 3 Years

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    Agreed 100%.
     
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  12. Ms. Trixy

    Ms. Trixy A mech in your pocket? Or are you glad to see me? VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 2 Years ECF Refugee Reddit Exile

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    Question: I heard that Mooch is gushing over a new 20700 or 21700 battery. Does anyone know of this?
     
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  13. KingPin!

    KingPin! In my defence, I was left unsupervised ^^ Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 1 Year VU Challenge Team Reviewer

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    I know he liked the Samsung 30T and 40T for 21700

    Could be the Sanyo NCR2070C? that has really good ratings for a 20700 he rated this cell highly
     
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  14. Carambrda

    Carambrda Gold Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    Could also be the LG H30 for 21700.
     
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  15. sultan

    sultan VU Donator Member For 3 Years

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    Vapcell or Aspire..seems like a lot of new ones are coming out.
     
  16. PaulS

    PaulS Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    Vapcell the winner.
     
  17. Ms. Trixy

    Ms. Trixy A mech in your pocket? Or are you glad to see me? VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 2 Years ECF Refugee Reddit Exile

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    The word heavily used was "gushing" over it.
    I don't doubt you. But if he was "gushing" it's something I'd like to see!
     
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  18. Ms. Trixy

    Ms. Trixy A mech in your pocket? Or are you glad to see me? VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 2 Years ECF Refugee Reddit Exile

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    On another note, on Mod Envy very early in June, there was a sale for a lot of 4 LG browns for some insanely low price. I bought 7 sets of 4. When I first took them out, they felt like re-wraps. I could feel a distinct seam, quite prominent actually, on one side and a less noticeable on the other. They were at Illumn I believe. Has anyone given though to these that they have purchased? I should have posted in the Battery Junkie section, but since I'm here....
     
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  19. KingPin!

    KingPin! In my defence, I was left unsupervised ^^ Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 1 Year VU Challenge Team Reviewer

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    Unfortunately not ...probably worth creating a thread for it though to attract more replies about it :vino:
     
  20. KingPin!

    KingPin! In my defence, I was left unsupervised ^^ Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 1 Year VU Challenge Team Reviewer

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    First voltage drop test

    Wismec RX Machina tube mech

     
  21. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell The Frugal Vapist VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    Yep watched it yesterday.
     
  22. KingPin!

    KingPin! In my defence, I was left unsupervised ^^ Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 1 Year VU Challenge Team Reviewer

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    Haven’t had a chance to watch it yet gonna watch it when I get home, did he manage to sort out the problems in the set up from vid 2?
     
  23. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell The Frugal Vapist VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    Yes but the tests in this vid prove that there are variables with mechs that can never be totally nailed down.
    button pressure, how the button is pressed ie off center/center, how well the mech is screwed together, etc.

    Switchfets are much more stable and should test more consistently.
     
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  24. KingPin!

    KingPin! In my defence, I was left unsupervised ^^ Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 1 Year VU Challenge Team Reviewer

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    Ahh ok same stuff as before then ...delivered with a caveat, perhaps he could do a range in the results?
     
  25. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell The Frugal Vapist VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    He will be doing multiple tests and throwing out the high and low and averaging.
     
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  26. KingPin!

    KingPin! In my defence, I was left unsupervised ^^ Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 1 Year VU Challenge Team Reviewer

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    Minding your Mechs Episode 4: Wismec RX Machina Thermal Imaging - Hot Spotting?

    a follow up vid from the testing completed in episode 3

     
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  27. KingPin!

    KingPin! In my defence, I was left unsupervised ^^ Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 1 Year VU Challenge Team Reviewer

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    120.C temp reached at the lower end :eek: ok he was pushing it but that’s pretty hot - I generally don’t like sleeves on tube mechs I want to feel that warm coming through it’s an important indicator
     
  28. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell The Frugal Vapist VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    new minding your Ma's vid about rewrapped batteries and such.
     
  29. KingPin!

    KingPin! In my defence, I was left unsupervised ^^ Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 1 Year VU Challenge Team Reviewer

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    Thanks mate saw that ..loaded it in the other thread
     
  30. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell The Frugal Vapist VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    Ahh I forgot there was a thread on on Mahs....
     
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  31. CactusFanaticus

    CactusFanaticus Silver Contributor Member For 1 Year

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  32. CactusFanaticus

    CactusFanaticus Silver Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    Just got through watching. Being an electrical nerd I found it interesting seeing the differences in resistance of tube bodies, even though SS being some 10 times or so (whatever it was) the resistance of copper only makes for a 1 watt drop out of 100 watts. I’m looking forward to seeing the rest of the tests on threads, switches, contacts etc.

    Tests like these by someone like mooch with proper equipment could potentially lead to improvements in designs of mechs, big thanks to mooch.
     
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  33. KingPin!

    KingPin! In my defence, I was left unsupervised ^^ Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 1 Year VU Challenge Team Reviewer

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    Indeed cactus I agree

    I’m also interested to learn which carry a placebo effect...paid more they must be better type thing
     
  34. CactusFanaticus

    CactusFanaticus Silver Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    New one’s up

     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2018
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  35. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell The Frugal Vapist VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    Great work that Mooch is doing.
    so yes tube metals make a difference all right. But not one that most would notice.
    5W or so at 30 amps?
     
  36. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell The Frugal Vapist VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    IMHO if you are running 30 amps thru an atty you will not notice 5W difference :)
    And at 20 amps the wattage loss would be reduced by 1/3.
     
  37. CactusFanaticus

    CactusFanaticus Silver Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    I agree, 5-7 watts out of 100 isn’t too big of a deal IMO, maybe for the very small percentage of vapers that do cloud comps and want every last watt, but for the average joe not that important.

    I’d personally be interested to see some tests on arcing.

    Great work Mooch :cheers:
     
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  38. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell The Frugal Vapist VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    I am interested on if you test copper, brass, and aluminum mod and then sit them aside for 30 days and retest with oxidation....
    SS would be pretty constant however the other metals tend to oxidize and create more resistive connections?
     
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  39. Carambrda

    Carambrda Gold Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    The thicker the metal that the tube itself is made of, the lower the resistance of it (i.e. analogous to using a lower gauge wire for building your coils) so as a result from that the differences in resistance between the various metal types also becomes smaller, accordingly. What that basically means is, if the metal is thick enough all the way everywhere, then the only locations where these differences can start to grow to the point of significance as far as the vape experience is concerned is in between the contacts, not the actual tube itself. So the screw threads and all the other contacts can be seen as if the metal simply is thinner in those locations when compared to the rest of the mod, as the metal surfaces that are touching each other to provide the contact have tiny imperfections in their smoothness thereby creating tiny crevasses surrounded by areas of proper contact, essentially reducing the total surface area of the contact when crevasses cannot fully be polished out, resulting in increased resistance.

    The accuracy of the machining also plays a part, as the two metal surfaces need to be pressed against each other really flat with no slanting nor wavy shape surfaces, and, polishing them till they're as perfectly smooth as smooth can be is not necessarily always going to give an improvement because screw threads may become thinned out potentially worsening the problem instead. Keeping the contacts clean and free of oxidation certainy helps, for reasons that are obvious. BUT... also please keep in mind there exist contact cleaners that contain some kind of lube or electrical grease, whereas other contact cleaners leave no residue after they completely evaporate, so, because micro-arcing occurs (typically in the narrowest spaces and moving debris that has resulted from previous micro-arcing), choose only the type of contact cleaner that does not leave a residue nor lube nor electrical grease. Micro-arcing in cohort with these so-called "protective" type layers of substances coating the surfaces creates an adverse effect because micro-arcing breaks down these substances in such a way that they speed up corrosion. Screwing the parts together when they are clean provides the necessary friction to polish, and, air gets squeezed out as they are screwed tight so oxidation from the oxygen in the air is not normally a problem if they aren't stored unscrewed for long periods of time. Just regular type maintenance every once in a while to remove dirt and blow out metal dust from micro-arcing will normally be fine. Arcing spots on the firing pin can be removed with an eraser pencil or softly pressing against 1000 grit sandpaper whilst carefully turning around its central axis back and forth. Finally, the design of the contacts plays another part. The right magnitude of total surface area of the contacts in cohort with designer ingenuity can, and does, do wonders. My copper version R6Two SBTR "Project Neptune Spear" with the Samsung 20S is living proof that it does. It hits like voltage drop of the mod is actually something below zero.
     
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  40. KingPin!

    KingPin! In my defence, I was left unsupervised ^^ Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 1 Year VU Challenge Team Reviewer

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    That would be a great test ...hope he does that at some point
     
  41. KingPin!

    KingPin! In my defence, I was left unsupervised ^^ Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 1 Year VU Challenge Team Reviewer

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    So about a 6 or so watts difference between the copper and SS and agree not a whole load of difference will be detected in real world terms after chain vaping and finger gets tired

    for the lazy out there ...polishing continuously sucks and copper takes a whole load of maintaining so SS is still a decent choice for that. like you mentioned above I wonder what results look like once copper/brass Patina’s a bit?

    Temp difference was significant though got to give copper that very impressive low heat rise considering he had a 30A continuous load for about 20-30seconds

    Much better mech than the Machina though either way
     
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  42. Carambrda

    Carambrda Gold Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    Add in that not necessarily everyone always likes to be on higher watts and you're all set and done.

    [​IMG]
     
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  43. KingPin!

    KingPin! In my defence, I was left unsupervised ^^ Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 1 Year VU Challenge Team Reviewer

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    Who me?... I get voltage drop is important and have no problem with those wanting to find a mech that has the absolute minimum amount impacting thier vape

    Just saying SS is a lot less of a ball ache to upkeep so it has its pros for sure
     
  44. KingPin!

    KingPin! In my defence, I was left unsupervised ^^ Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 1 Year VU Challenge Team Reviewer

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  45. KingPin!

    KingPin! In my defence, I was left unsupervised ^^ Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 1 Year VU Challenge Team Reviewer

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  46. Ralph_K

    Ralph_K Bronze Contributor

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    I don't think it makes a difference at all. You could use nolox on threads
     
  47. Carambrda

    Carambrda Gold Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    Micro-arcing between the threads is unavoidable, and, it causes the Noalox to break down, after which the broken-down Noalox speeds up corrosion. So nope.
     
  48. triakis

    triakis Bronze Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    You're not going to have arcing on threads. Arcing occurs when breaking the connection.
     
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  49. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell The Frugal Vapist VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    Arcing can happen when making or breaking a connection of if you have ever had a black spot on the threads you had to polish off then it was likely caused by arcing.
    Threads do have a bit of clearance so they do not bind up.
     
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  50. triakis

    triakis Bronze Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    Arcing can happen on make and break, break is the most significant and common. Making contact should be very little arcing. Proper design limits both. And a proper design should not have making and breaking occurring on either side of the battery. Unfortunately, most of the mechs do this. Designs such as Sub Ohm Innovations, Broadside, 2JNT, Purge Slam piece, et al do in fact have contacts that do NOT make and break on battery terminals at all. Using an 18650 adapter in a 20700 or 21700 mod also prevents making and breaking on cells directly. Constant pressure on battery terminals results in less battery wear/damage and un necessary battery heating from associated power loss at the terminal point. I've been using my 2JNT Pilak Tycoon for nearly 3 weeks nonstop and pulled out the switch to check the contact area and it's perfectly clean as the day I got it! And (of course) the batteries look perfect since they make constant contact on both positive and negative terminals the entire time.

    And threads should never, ever have arcing. Just as there should never be any intermittent connections (interruptions) along a circuit that's NOT intended to disrupt the flow of electrons. If there's intermittent connectivity in your threads you have a serious design flaw! Some mods may indeed have arcing in other places besides where make and break occurs at the battery terminal. I've seen cloned AV tubes, due to the sloppy tolerances around the firing pin, for example, get arc marks between the firing pin and ring where it travels. That's one area that was addressed in the Dreamer mod.

    With high current designs, the best way to keep arcing to a minimum is the open and close the contacts as quickly as possible. This just isn't feasible with the simplicity of a mechanical mod. And most people wouldn't like the snap noise that would sound similar to say the piezoelectric igniter found on a gas grill which employs an impact principle to increase spark energy. ;)

    Here we can see not only the significance of AC vs. DC (which doesn't apply to battery powered mods) AND arcing on make and break.

     
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