Mooch: Can the 2500mAh VTC5A run for longer than the 3000mAh 18650’s?

[The Cromwell]

This from Mooch over on Reddit.
All credit to Mooch.
Long live The Mooch!

Can the 2500mAh VTC5A run for longer than the 3000mAh 18650’s? self.electronic_cigarette

Submitted 11 hours ago by Mooch315

The Sony VTC5A is more efficient, i.e., it has a lower internal resistance, than the 3000mAh Sony VTC6, Samsung 30Q, and LG HG2. This means it has less voltage sag when being used and takes longer to drop to a low voltage cutoff point. But does it hold its voltage up well enough to run for longer than batteries with 500mAh more capacity?

If you just compare the mAh delivered by both down to 3.2V (https://imgur.com/a/QvYU2) then it looks like the 30Q is equal to or better than the VTC5A. But for a regulated device the voltage the battery runs at is important too, not just the capacity. You want the battery to stay above the mod’s low voltage cutoff for as long as possible. The watt-hour (Wh) specification for the battery take both the voltage and capacity into account.

I compared the watt-hours delivered by the VTC5A and 30Q at 10A/30W and 20A/60W down to 3.2V (about 3.5V-3.6V when put on a charger). At 10A/30W the 30Q was the winner, lasting about 10% longer.

But at 20A/60W they both ran the same amount of time.

Why? The larger voltage sag of the 30Q shortened its running time enough that the VTC5’s greater efficiency, and smaller voltage sag, let it run for just as long.

Bottom Line: At up to about 17A/50W or so the 30Q, VTC6, and HG2 will run for longer in a regulated mod. At above 20A/60W the VTC5A is the better choice. It will run for the same amount of time or longer and will run cooler at any power level.

For an unregulated/mech mod the VTC5A is the better choice since it hits harder, i.e. runs at a higher voltage, at the discharge current levels typical for those mods.

The Sony VTC6 and LG HG2 perform about the same as the 30Q and these results will be about the same for them.

 

[ben73]

This from Mooch over on Reddit.
All credit to Mooch.
Long live The Mooch!

Can the 2500mAh VTC5A run for longer than the 3000mAh 18650’s? self.electronic_cigarette

Submitted 11 hours ago by Mooch315

The Sony VTC5A is more efficient, i.e., it has a lower internal resistance, than the 3000mAh Sony VTC6, Samsung 30Q, and LG HG2. This means it has less voltage sag when being used and takes longer to drop to a low voltage cutoff point. But does it hold its voltage up well enough to run for longer than batteries with 500mAh more capacity?

If you just compare the mAh delivered by both down to 3.2V (https://imgur.com/a/QvYU2) then it looks like the 30Q is equal to or better than the VTC5A. But for a regulated device the voltage the battery runs at is important too, not just the capacity. You want the battery to stay above the mod’s low voltage cutoff for as long as possible. The watt-hour (Wh) specification for the battery take both the voltage and capacity into account.

I compared the watt-hours delivered by the VTC5A and 30Q at 10A/30W and 20A/60W down to 3.2V (about 3.5V-3.6V when put on a charger). At 10A/30W the 30Q was the winner, lasting about 10% longer.

But at 20A/60W they both ran the same amount of time.

Why? The larger voltage sag of the 30Q shortened its running time enough that the VTC5’s greater efficiency, and smaller voltage sag, let it run for just as long.

Bottom Line: At up to about 17A/50W or so the 30Q, VTC6, and HG2 will run for longer in a regulated mod. At above 20A/60W the VTC5A is the better choice. It will run for the same amount of time or longer and will run cooler at any power level.

For an unregulated/mech mod the VTC5A is the better choice since it hits harder, i.e. runs at a higher voltage, at the discharge current levels typical for those mods.

The Sony VTC6 and LG HG2 perform about the same as the 30Q and these results will be about the same for them.

Well when tbe VTC6A
comes more avalible
Might change things slightly since its supposed to be as good as VTC5a with a few hundred more mah

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

 

[Carambrda]

There used to be a time when a lot of people on here kept claiming the 30Q or the HG2 was a better choice than the VTC5A for up to 120 watts on a dual 18650 regulated mod, whereas I kept replying it's only up to 80-90 watts. It's always good to see Mooch agrees with me... this also supports my conclusion that tootle puffers should probably stop handing out battery advice to high wattage vapers and should instead just stick to their tootle puffing actions because, no, lower wattage and or smaller clouds does not imply better flavor, either.

 

[conanthewarrior]

That is good to know, thank you @The Cromwell , and thanks @Mooch .

I did speak to Mooch before quite a while back and he mentioned up to around 60W per cell the VTC6, 30Q or HG2 would probably be a better choice, it's nice to see the tests for anyone that wonders about runtime.

50W/17A a cell is plenty for me most of the time, so I will continue to use whichever batteries come off the charger first lol. This is in a dual or triple 18650 regulated mod, usually around 70W at the moment. I don't tend to use my single cell mods often as I find the battery life pretty crap no matter what batteries I use, unless I go for a real low power setup which doesn't really cut it for me.

 

[KingPin!]

That is good to know, thank you @The Cromwell , and thanks @Mooch .

I did speak to Mooch before quite a while back and he mentioned up to around 60W per cell the VTC6, 30Q or HG2 would probably be a better choice, it's nice to see the tests for anyone that wonders about runtime.

50W/17A a cell is plenty for me most of the time, so I will continue to use whichever batteries come off the charger first lol. This is in a dual or triple 18650 regulated mod, usually around 70W at the moment. I don't tend to use my single cell mods often as I find the battery life pretty crap no matter what batteries I use, unless I go for a real low power setup which doesn't really cut it for me.

Observe the same myself VTC5A definitely punches better but it doesn’t last as long as 30Q or VTC6 whenever I’ve used them

 

[Mattp169]

Observe the same myself VTC5A definitely punches better but it doesn’t last as long as 30Q or VTC6 whenever I’ve used them

mooch never says the vtc5a will run longer then the 30q or vtc6, he only says at higher amp/wattage draws on the battery in a regulated mod it will run the same amount of time OR longer. But he never says how much longer. longer could be one puff or a million

regardless all the batteries mentioned are good batteries the vtc5a happens to be the most efficient of them all, but you don't need to go throwing out all you r30qs and hg2s and vtc6s

 

[The Cromwell]

Yep under just the right conditions the 30Q MAY outlast the VTC5A by a bit.

Low wattage vapers use 30Q or VTC6.
Moderate to high wattage VTC5A.

or just use VTC5A for everything?

 

[Carambrda]

Yep under just the right conditions the 30Q MAY outlast the VTC5A by a bit.

Low wattage vapers use 30Q or VTC6.
Moderate to high wattage VTC5A.

or just use VTC5A for everything?

Especially if you chain vape, the 30Q or VTC6 will not outlast the VTC5A by any stretch of the imagination even if you vape CONSIDERABLY below the old mantra of "60 watts per battery". This is what I have been saying for like aeons... finally backed up by Mooch despite I have been shat on numerous times in the past for simply pointing it out on here in various threads so, bottom line, tootle puffers should refrain from handing out advice about battery performance when it comes to higher than medium wattage vaping because these people seriously don't know shit about that... yes really.

 

[Carambrda]

, but you don't need to go throwing out all you r30qs and hg2s and vtc6s

Lucky for me I was smart enough to never buy any of those in the first place.

 

[The Cromwell]

but since I rarely vape over 30 watts the HG2's, and 30Q's work nicely for me.
Have some VTC5A's as well for mech use.
Some of my HG2's are over 2 1/2 years old and still going fine.

 

[r055co]

I love VTC5A's, they IMO are perfect all around batteries for Vaping.

 

[The Cromwell]

If one is starting out vaping imho the VTC5A is the battery to get.
Works well for any style of vaping.

 

[Carambrda]

but since I rarely vape over 30 watts the HG2's, and 30Q's work nicely for me.
Have some VTC5A's as well for mech use.
Some of my HG2's are over 2 1/2 years old and still going fine.

but since I never vape under 100 watts these batteries leave me stone cold, and, even when I was vaping at only 80-90 watts, these batteries STILL left me stone cold because then they STILL can't keep up with the VTC5A performance wise if you chain vape. That is, and always has been, my point.

 

[Carambrda]

If one is starting out vaping imho the VTC5A is the battery to get.
Works well for any style of vaping.

Yes and no. High wattage vaping is not for everyone, and, some people just can't live without temp control... so in this particular scenario, then something like the Lost Vape Paranormal DNA75C equipped with two VTC6 batteries would probably be a better choice anyway after all.

 

[The Cromwell]

Yes and no. High wattage vaping is not for everyone, and, some people just can't live without temp control... so in this particular scenario, then something like the Lost Vape Paranormal DNA75C equipped with two VTC6 batteries would probably be a better choice anyway after all.

True but the performance of the VTC5A in that application would be fine as well.
Might not run quite as long but would be fine.

 

[David Wolf]

This from Mooch over on Reddit.
All credit to Mooch.
Long live The Mooch!

Can the 2500mAh VTC5A run for longer than the 3000mAh 18650’s? self.electronic_cigarette

Submitted 11 hours ago by Mooch315

The Sony VTC5A is more efficient, i.e., it has a lower internal resistance, than the 3000mAh Sony VTC6, Samsung 30Q, and LG HG2. This means it has less voltage sag when being used and takes longer to drop to a low voltage cutoff point. But does it hold its voltage up well enough to run for longer than batteries with 500mAh more capacity?

If you just compare the mAh delivered by both down to 3.2V (https://imgur.com/a/QvYU2) then it looks like the 30Q is equal to or better than the VTC5A. But for a regulated device the voltage the battery runs at is important too, not just the capacity. You want the battery to stay above the mod’s low voltage cutoff for as long as possible. The watt-hour (Wh) specification for the battery take both the voltage and capacity into account.

I compared the watt-hours delivered by the VTC5A and 30Q at 10A/30W and 20A/60W down to 3.2V (about 3.5V-3.6V when put on a charger). At 10A/30W the 30Q was the winner, lasting about 10% longer.

But at 20A/60W they both ran the same amount of time.

Why? The larger voltage sag of the 30Q shortened its running time enough that the VTC5’s greater efficiency, and smaller voltage sag, let it run for just as long.

Bottom Line: At up to about 17A/50W or so the 30Q, VTC6, and HG2 will run for longer in a regulated mod. At above 20A/60W the VTC5A is the better choice. It will run for the same amount of time or longer and will run cooler at any power level.

For an unregulated/mech mod the VTC5A is the better choice since it hits harder, i.e. runs at a higher voltage, at the discharge current levels typical for those mods.

The Sony VTC6 and LG HG2 perform about the same as the 30Q and these results will be about the same for them.

Which all boils down to generally a 3000 maH battery has more capacity than a 2500 maH battery. Who knew?

 

[David Wolf]

There used to be a time when a lot of people on here kept claiming the 30Q or the HG2 was a better choice than the VTC5A for up to 120 watts on a dual 18650 regulated mod, whereas I kept replying it's only up to 80-90 watts. It's always good to see Mooch agrees with me... this also supports my conclusion that tootle puffers should probably stop handing out battery advice to high wattage vapers and should instead just stick to their tootle puffing actions because, no, lower wattage and or smaller clouds does not imply better flavor, either.

“But at 20A/60W they both ran the same amount of time.”
I like Mooches test results better than your advice to tootle puffers

 

[The Cromwell]

Which all boils down to generally a 3000 maH battery has more capacity than a 2500 maH battery. Who knew?

Depends on how hard you run it.
the harder (more amps) you run a battery the less capacity it has.
The 3000 mah rating is likely at around .5 amp drain rate.

The VTC5A with lower internal resistance and such will not drop it's capacity as fast as a 30Q if both are discharged at 15 amps.

 

[David Wolf]

Depends on how hard you run it.
the harder (more amps) you run a battery the less capacity it has.
The 3000 mah rating is likely at around .5 amp drain rate.

The VTC5A with lower internal resistance and such will not drop it's capacity as fast as a 30Q if both are discharged at 15 amps.

“But at 20A/60W they both ran the same amount of time.”

 

[The Cromwell]

“But at 20A/60W they both ran the same amount of time.”

as I said because the mah capacity of the 3000 mah 30Q dropped faster than the 2600 mah capacity of the VTC5A did.

 

[David Wolf]

as I said because the mah capacity of the 3000 mah 30Q dropped faster than the 2600 mah capacity of the VTC5A did.

That's not the capacity dropping faster on this chart, it's the voltage, the total capacity is shown on the x axis.. By the time they hit 3.2V they are at about the same capacity at 20A, and at 10 A the 30Q has more capacity.
https://imgur.com/a/QvYU2

Regarding the 3000 mah rating, I use the LG 18650HG2, the specs for this battery show that the 3000 mah rating is at 0.2C, which means a steady discharge current over 5 hours, so that would be 3000 mah/5 hrs = 600 ma or 0.6A, pretty close to what you had said, in fact for a 2500 mah battery rating based on 0.2C, it would be exactly a 500 ma current for 5 hours. However even at higher discharge currents, the LG 8650HG2 specs show they still maintain very good capacity, this is from a table in the specs::

0.2C 3A 5A 10A 5A 20A 25A 30A
Capacity (mAh) 2998 2886 2884 2925 2913 2873 2802 2702

FYI, I have found on charging that its around 2940 maH or so on my measured charging capacity tests. . I really like this battery and highly recommend it for low power vaping and everything I've seen ifrom Mooche and in the specs show superior capacity to 10A, and still good performance to 20A., it definitely lasts longer than my Sony VTC5 vaping at 16W or less.

For a mech mod It looks like the VTC5A is the best choice due to the voltage drop IF you are vaping at high power. So it all boils down to how you vape, what power, and what you want. It's smart to do the homework, look at the charts and specs, or you can just take the word of a tootle puffer or a cloud chucker on VU at your own risk, lol.

 

[The Cromwell]

That's not the capacity dropping faster on this chart, it's the voltage, the total capacity is shown on the x axis.. By the time they hit 3.2V they are at about the same capacity at 20A, and at 10 A the 30Q has more capacity.

Yep what I have been trying to say in my crude manner.

HG2's I have been using for around 2.5 years and still using them.
Compared them in a squonker to new 30Q's and the 2.5 year old HG2's did not vape quite as much juice per charge (using same atty and mod) as the new 30Q's did but close enough.

All my electronic test equipment burned up so no way to test it with sciencing though

 

[Mattp169]

I have like 6 or 8 sets of HG2s and 2 sets of 25rs, I use them all every day with no issues and no complaints. SOme are 3 years old or more. One day when I replace them I will either get HG2s cuz thats what I am accustomed to, or maybe some VTC6s since mooch says they are a bit better. Or if I'm in the mood I might get a set of VTC6s , VTC5as and HG2s and put them in my 3 identical mods with identical atties and builds and see for myself if I notice a difference.

 

[Carambrda]

“But at 20A/60W they both ran the same amount of time.”
I like Mooches test results better than your advice to tootle puffers

First off, the battery temperature also matters. All you had to do to figure that out was read Mooch's post:
Bottom Line: At up to about 17A/50W or so the 30Q, VTC6, and HG2 will run for longer in a regulated mod. At above 20A/60W the VTC5A is the better choice. It will run for the same amount of time or longer and will run cooler at any power level.

So basically what that means is, despite they can run for an equal amount of time at that wattage, in the end the cooler running battery is still the recommended one for that same wattage. Secondly, you can literally watch him say "at 50-55W per battery the VTC5A can outlast the 30Q", here:

Finally, the wattage above which the VTC5A outlasts the 30Q also part depends on how much you chain vape, and, due to the fact the VTC5A runs cooler, it can age slower (also depending on how much you chain vape). In fact it can also be safer even for a regulated mod because the safety features in a regulated mod can still fail. For example, in the event that the puff cut-off timer fails in such a way that the mod keeps auto firing, not only will the batteries be discharged continuously, but also the heat coming from the atomizer might transfer partly onto the batteries so as a result you run the risk of overheating the batteries to dangerously high temperatures. Remember the overheat protection of the mod only protects the board inside the mod, not the actual batteries themselves. Above 75°C the CDR of the 30Q is only 15A.

 

[Carambrda]

I have like 6 or 8 sets of HG2s and 2 sets of 25rs, I use them all every day with no issues and no complaints. SOme are 3 years old or more. One day when I replace them I will either get HG2s cuz thats what I am accustomed to, or maybe some VTC6s since mooch says they are a bit better. Or if I'm in the mood I might get a set of VTC6s , VTC5as and HG2s and put them in my 3 identical mods with identical atties and builds and see for myself if I notice a difference.

One day the VTC6A and the VTC5D will become available to us so if that day comes a little sooner than the day when you replace your old batteries, then you might actually consider getting some of these instead.

 

[Mattp169]

One day the VTC6A and the VTC5D will become available to us so if that day comes a little sooner than the day when you replace your old batteries, then you might actually consider getting some of these instead.

yeah I forget about those, but that will also depend on testing results and availability. I'm not arguing that the hg2 is not the best available battery on the market today. but the hg2 is still a great battery, better then many others on the market, it is also safer at any wattage level then many batteries on the market, same can be said for the 30q and the 25r. They are all the top end batteries for 18650s, along with the VTC5As and VTC6. but yes one of them is going to be THE BEST and in this case there is one THE best overall, the VTC5a, and one that is THE BEST under a given set of conditions , the VTC6. If someone says I have HG2s are they safe for my regulated mod? Sure they are, but dont chain vape those above 60ish watts per battery. is there an even safer battery? sure the VTC5a is because regardless of mah, it has a higher amp rating...and more amps is always safer in a mod. What is the longest lasting battery? the VTC6 is when vaping under 60ish watts per battery but if your doing higher powered vaping which will be pushing your amp draw above 20 amps then you shouldn't be using a 20 amp battery like the VTC6 you should be using a VTC5A.

But let's also remember Mooch is saying 20amp/60watt is where YOU may see a difference. you dont hit 20A/60W until you are down to like 3.35V on the cell (based on 90%efficiency) which is close or at low battery cut off for many mods.. and on some mods, I believe the dna200 claimed a 97% efficiency which would make it 3.1V before you hit 20 amps. So depending on your mod (efficiency and low voltage cutoff), you may not see any difference between how long a 30Q and a VTC5A last, because at 60watts per cell you may get a cutoff that doesn't ever get above 17amps. And in that case the 30 Q will out last the VTC5A at 60 watts

 

[David Wolf]

First off, the battery temperature also matters. All you had to do to figure that out was read Mooch's post:
Bottom Line: At up to about 17A/50W or so the 30Q, VTC6, and HG2 will run for longer in a regulated mod. At above 20A/60W the VTC5A is the better choice. It will run for the same amount of time or longer and will run cooler at any power level.

So basically what that means is, despite they can run for an equal amount of time at that wattage, in the end the cooler running battery is still the recommended one for that same wattage. Secondly, you can literally watch him say "at 50-55W per battery the VTC5A can outlast the 30Q", here:

Finally, the wattage above which the VTC5A outlasts the 30Q also part depends on how much you chain vape, and, due to the fact the VTC5A runs cooler, it can age slower (also depending on how much you chain vape). In fact it can also be safer even for a regulated mod because the safety features in a regulated mod can still fail. For example, in the event that the puff cut-off timer fails in such a way that the mod keeps auto firing, not only will the batteries be discharged continuously, but also the heat coming from the atomizer might transfer partly onto the batteries so as a result you run the risk of overheating the batteries to dangerously high temperatures. Remember the overheat protection of the mod only protects the board inside the mod, not the actual batteries themselves. Above 75°C the CDR of the 30Q is only 15A.

I always have fun reading any post you write responding to one of my posts, you always go off on some very entertaining ego driven holier than thou wild lecture having nothing to do with what I said lol
The funniest part is you replied to my post merely quoting what Mooch said -- "But at 20A/60W they both ran the same amount of time.” lol
And I see that HIS test charts back him up on HIS statement.

I will leave the fluff about "safer blah blah chain vaping blah blah " alone (not worthy of addressing from my Electrical Engineer perspective and unrelated to anything I have said). I will address your quote of Mooch saying in the video " "at 50-55W per battery the VTC5A can outlast the 30Q".
In fact, what he said in the video is:
"It seems that around 55 Watts, 60 Watts, the higher efficiency of the VTC5A... " then a few seconds later "... allows the VTC5A to run longer than the Samsung 30Q... around 55-65 Watts per battery...". It's clear he was speaking off the cuff, since he cited two ranges, and the ranges he cites in the video are generally consistent with his written words of "at 20A/60W they both ran the same amount of time" as well as his chart. However the ranges he cites in the video are quite different than your misquote stating that he said "50-55W per battery". Come on man, if you're going to quote Mooch, do it accurately, don't try to make your case by deducting 5 to 10 Watts lol

I've not said anything about the 30Q other than to quote Mooch. But I will now - the Samsung 30Q has a 15A maximum continuous rating by the manufacturer, and I would never recommend to anyone vaping to go over that. In fact as a conservative engineer who prefers to be on the side of safety, I always suggest 80% of the continuous rating. And no, I don't take pulse ratings as a safe rating to vape at. Mooch has tested and rated this at 20A, then changed it back to 15A, and now rates it "conditionally " at 20A:

For higher power vaping, then folks would obviously want a higher rated battery, the VTC5A has a 25A maximum continuous rating by Sony.
And for lower power vaping with great battery life, I really, really, like my 3000 maH LG HG2's rated at 20A maximum continuous by LG.

 

[r055co]

I always have fun reading any post you write responding to one of my posts, you always go off on some very entertaining ego driven holier than thou wild lecture having nothing to do with what I said lol
The funniest part is you replied to my post merely quoting what Mooch said -- "But at 20A/60W they both ran the same amount of time.” lol
And I see that HIS test charts back him up on HIS statement.

I will leave the fluff about "safer blah blah chain vaping blah blah " alone (not worthy of addressing from my Electrical Engineer perspective and unrelated to anything I have said). I will address your quote of Mooch saying in the video " "at 50-55W per battery the VTC5A can outlast the 30Q".
In fact, what he said in the video is:
"It seems that around 55 Watts, 60 Watts, the higher efficiency of the VTC5A... " then a few seconds later "... allows the VTC5A to run longer than the Samsung 30Q... around 55-65 Watts per battery...". It's clear he was speaking off the cuff, since he cited two ranges, and the ranges he cites in the video are generally consistent with his written words of "at 20A/60W they both ran the same amount of time" as well as his chart. However the ranges he cites in the video are quite different than your misquote stating that he said "50-55W per battery". Come on man, if you're going to quote Mooch, do it accurately, don't try to make your case by deducting 5 to 10 Watts lol

I've not said anything about the 30Q other than to quote Mooch. But I will now - the Samsung 30Q has a 15A maximum continuous rating by the manufacturer, and I would never recommend to anyone vaping to go over that. In fact as a conservative engineer who prefers to be on the side of safety, I always suggest 80% of the continuous rating. And no, I don't take pulse ratings as a safe rating to vape at. Mooch has tested and rated this at 20A, then changed it back to 15A, and now rates it "conditionally " at 20A:

For higher power vaping, then folks would obviously want a higher rated battery, the VTC5A has a 25A maximum continuous rating by Sony.
And for lower power vaping with great battery life, I really, really, like my 3000 maH LG HG2's rated at 20A maximum continuous by LG.

Yeah he does have a big habit of miss quoting, taking shit completely out of context and never admits to any mistakes. I just put the arrogant prick on my ignore list

Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk

 

[Carambrda]

yeah I forget about those, but that will also depend on testing results and availability. I'm not arguing that the hg2 is not the best available battery on the market today. but the hg2 is still a great battery, better then many others on the market, it is also safer at any wattage level then many batteries on the market, same can be said for the 30q and the 25r. They are all the top end batteries for 18650s, along with the VTC5As and VTC6. but yes one of them is going to be THE BEST and in this case there is one THE best overall, the VTC5a, and one that is THE BEST under a given set of conditions , the VTC6. If someone says I have HG2s are they safe for my regulated mod? Sure they are, but dont chain vape those above 60ish watts per battery. is there an even safer battery? sure the VTC5a is because regardless of mah, it has a higher amp rating...and more amps is always safer in a mod. What is the longest lasting battery? the VTC6 is when vaping under 60ish watts per battery but if your doing higher powered vaping which will be pushing your amp draw above 20 amps then you shouldn't be using a 20 amp battery like the VTC6 you should be using a VTC5A.

But let's also remember Mooch is saying 20amp/60watt is where YOU may see a difference. you dont hit 20A/60W until you are down to like 3.35V on the cell (based on 90%efficiency) which is close or at low battery cut off for many mods.. and on some mods, I believe the dna200 claimed a 97% efficiency which would make it 3.1V before you hit 20 amps. So depending on your mod (efficiency and low voltage cutoff), you may not see any difference between how long a 30Q and a VTC5A last, because at 60watts per cell you may get a cutoff that doesn't ever get above 17amps. And in that case the 30 Q will out last the VTC5A at 60 watts

Actually no. Anyone who has watched the video I linked should know by now it's not "under 60ish watts per battery", but rather, it's "under 50-55ish watts per battery" because, at 60 watts per battery, the only difference big enough to be worth discussing aside from availability (and price, if the difference means having to eat top ramen every day for a year) is the battery temperature.

 

[Carambrda]

I always have fun reading any post you write responding to one of my posts, you always go off on some very entertaining ego driven holier than thou wild lecture having nothing to do with what I said lol
The funniest part is you replied to my post merely quoting what Mooch said -- "But at 20A/60W they both ran the same amount of time.” lol
And I see that HIS test charts back him up on HIS statement.

I will leave the fluff about "safer blah blah chain vaping blah blah " alone (not worthy of addressing from my Electrical Engineer perspective and unrelated to anything I have said). I will address your quote of Mooch saying in the video " "at 50-55W per battery the VTC5A can outlast the 30Q".
In fact, what he said in the video is:
"It seems that around 55 Watts, 60 Watts, the higher efficiency of the VTC5A... " then a few seconds later "... allows the VTC5A to run longer than the Samsung 30Q... around 55-65 Watts per battery...". It's clear he was speaking off the cuff, since he cited two ranges, and the ranges he cites in the video are generally consistent with his written words of "at 20A/60W they both ran the same amount of time" as well as his chart. However the ranges he cites in the video are quite different than your misquote stating that he said "50-55W per battery". Come on man, if you're going to quote Mooch, do it accurately, don't try to make your case by deducting 5 to 10 Watts lol

I've not said anything about the 30Q other than to quote Mooch. But I will now - the Samsung 30Q has a 15A maximum continuous rating by the manufacturer, and I would never recommend to anyone vaping to go over that. In fact as a conservative engineer who prefers to be on the side of safety, I always suggest 80% of the continuous rating. And no, I don't take pulse ratings as a safe rating to vape at. Mooch has tested and rated this at 20A, then changed it back to 15A, and now rates it "conditionally " at 20A:

For higher power vaping, then folks would obviously want a higher rated battery, the VTC5A has a 25A maximum continuous rating by Sony.
And for lower power vaping with great battery life, I really, really, like my 3000 maH LG HG2's rated at 20A maximum continuous by LG.

Deducting 5 watts makes all the logical sense simply because holier than thou characters like yourself are adding 5 watts as well as are ignoring battery temperature, battery aging, and safety related properties. Mooch deducts 5 amps off the CDR all the time because drama queens like you are always a rock steady factor... remember I was talking about when to buy the VTC5A instead of the 30Q and why.

 

[conanthewarrior]

I just had a quick count of my batteries, I made 30, there may be more sitting in some mods in another room I will check later.

They are a mix of Sony, Samsung and LG. I mostly have 25R's and HE4's as these were the best value for money where I live, and suited my needs when I got them. I also have higher capacity cells, which I purchased with the intention of a longer runtime at the right power levels.

If I want to vape higher wattage, I use my Sony's, or even 25R'/HE4's. Most of the time I am around 70W, so whichever is charged first I use.

My point being that they are all good batteries, and I get a fair runtime from all of them. I do find that the 3000MAH cells last longer, but all of them are enough to keep me going long enough until I need to change. 50-60W from a single 18650 I think is great, with my triple 18650 mods 150-180W should be plenty to please all but the most demanding builds, and is somewhere I never need to go myself.
I did when I first got the mods and was experimenting with builds, but found battery life to not be good with any batteries at that kind of power.

It really depends on what you want individually when choosing a battery, jack of all trades/high power the VTC5A is great, longer runtime at reasonable power the VTC6, 30Q or HG2, or for extremely high power one of the lower capacity, 30A cells.

 

[David Wolf]

Deducting 5 watts makes all the logical sense simply because holier than thou characters like yourself are adding 5 watts as well as are ignoring battery temperature, battery aging, and safety related properties. Mooch deducts 5 amps off the CDR all the time because drama queens like you are always a rock steady factor... remember I was talking about when to buy the VTC5A instead of the 30Q and why.

Haha I’ll leave it there. See ya next lecture

 

[Carambrda]

Haha I’ll leave it there. See ya next lecture

OK.. here's the next lecture from Mooch.

https://youtu.be/eCRvh0QAZ1k?t=1036

So at or below 45 watts per battery is recommended for the 30Q and the VTC6. Not 60 watts per battery for these, and, that is with or without all your drama.

 

[David Wolf]

OK.. here's the next lecture from Mooch.

https://youtu.be/eCRvh0QAZ1k?t=1036

So at or below 45 watts per battery is recommended for the 30Q and the VTC6. Not 60 watts per battery for these, and, that is with or without all your drama.

My lord, you can't let it go can you, and i was being gracious lol! Mooch's recommendations are fine, and NOTHING to do with anything I said. I quoted Mooch! And I was talking about his charts for maH capacity, not the power he recommends vaping at. Too funny!
I do agree with his recommendation for the HG2, my fav battery
If you really want to discuss this NEW made up argument of yours, I will point out that if you reread my posts above, you will see that I said I would never recommend vaping above the manufacturers maximum continuous current rating, which for the 30Q is 15A. And I also said I conservatively recommended vaping at 80% of that rating. Well that will put you right around Mooches recommendations, or even lower at 80% of max current. So yeah, he gives good advice, like I try to do.
I tell you what, argue with yourself, that's basically what you do anyway, and leave me out of it. I think I'll take the advice to just ignore your smoke screen made up arguments