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New mixes won't mix

zeeter

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I made 5-30ml batches on the 9th and they still aren't cured yet. I can clearly see a delineation of clear and color and when I try to mix them the layers are visible even after shaking them. They've been kept in a cupboard during this whole time and with this weather it's been at a little below room temperature, but not excessively so.

I realize that some liquids take longer than others to cure, but I would think that at least one or two would be finished by now. In fact, I had made one of these recipes before and it was done in a week. There's still about 3/4 of an inch of clear liquid in the bottom of that jar.

One issue: I received a new batch of 30 ml bottles and they appear exactly as described: 30 ml. That is: very little air in the bottle to breath or to provide leverage towards shaking them. My previous batch of bottles was a little over, allowing me to keep enough air in them.

Yesterday I placed all of the bottles in a bowl of very hot water. Doesn't seem to have helped. I'm reluctant to place plastic bottles in a pot of water on the stove.

I did leave them cap-less for two days before putting the caps on. Not that it helped since there's maybe one small bubble of air in each bottle.

Any suggestions?
 

burley

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If you're still seeing swirls (I call 'em 'ribbons'), you're likely not shaking it up and mixing it up enough. Just the first thing to pop into my head, that's all. Shake shake shake, boss-man. This:

There's still about 3/4 of an inch of clear liquid in the bottom of that jar.

...is dis-heartening. If there's that much of a difference between 'layers' of liquid in a bottle... I mean, I don't know, other than shaking it up. I've never had a bottle of juice separate like that.
 

zeeter

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If you're still seeing swirls (I call 'em 'ribbons'), you're likely not shaking it up and mixing it up enough. Just the first thing to pop into my head, that's all. Shake shake shake, boss-man. This:

...is dis-heartening. If there's that much of a difference between 'layers' of liquid in a bottle... I mean, I don't know, other than shaking it up. I've never had a bottle of juice separate like that.

Yeah, that's where I'm having trouble in that the bottles won't shake well because they're so full. A heavy liquid like this needs some air in it to provide the shaking leverage. I do the best I can - just taking longer than normal. Time to clean out some of my older bottles, I suppose.

The clear liquid on the bottom is probably the VG since it is heavier.
 

zeeter

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Pour all 5 bottles into some kind (any kind) of larger bottle with enough headroom to shake well, then rebottle into the 30s. Next time don't fill so full.

I'm just going to go back to my old bottles and clean them out. I'm not fond of these. I don't want to lower from 30ml as that's what all of my recipes are set for. Granted, I'm only mixing for myself, but I have all my measurements standardized and changing them at this point would be a drag.
 

Angrygod50

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Two suggestions, mix 29ml batches to let a bit of room for shaking or mix in a glass beaker then you can heat and stir before putting it in the plastic.
I forgot to heat and shake a bottle once, I picked it up a week later and it still had layers.
 

zeeter

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Two suggestions, mix 29ml batches to let a bit of room for shaking or mix in a glass beaker then you can heat and stir before putting it in the plastic.
I forgot to heat and shake a bottle once, I picked it up a week later and it still had layers.

I have beakers but I've always been reluctant to use them. It just feels like no matter what I do there will be some pre-cured liquid left over in the beaker. Now, if I let it cure in the beaker that would be a different matter as any left over wouldn't ruin my ratios. I'm not completely anal about my recipes, such as most call for 20.13 VG and I only put in 20 rather than using two syringes. Yet that's VG. If I did that with a flavor it would make a whole world of difference.
 

zephyr

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Even if my bottle is totally full, I can still shake the crap out of them After Heating (sitting in hot water, shake shake shake, put back in hot water, then shake shake more) will mix. Important to me to let the VG get warm through and through, that's why I put them back in hot water after the first shake - once I can feel the VG cooling the bottle back down, heat the bottle up again.
 

burley

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Even if my bottle is totally full, I can still shake the crap out of them After Heating (sitting in hot water, shake shake shake, put back in hot water, then shake shake more) will mix. Important to me to let the VG get warm through and through, that's why I put them back in hot water after the first shake - once I can feel the VG cooling the bottle back down, heat the bottle up again.
Ditto. I almost always top off the bottle with little air space, guess I'm just a strong shaker.
 
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Hillbilly Pig

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I've never had a problem with flavors not wanting to fuse, so I'm not sure how to help. Though if the bottles don't want you to shake em, you could try an electric mixer. I wouldn't put plastic bottles on the stove, but that's just me. Sorry I ain't much help, but I'm not sure what to do here.
 

Just Frank

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I dont top off all of the VG at one time. I fill it up a ways and shake the piss out of it. That usually helps the flavors and pg/vg to infuse or whatever the correct term is.
 

The Cromwell

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All the 30 glass bottles I got were 30 ml to the top shoulder of the bottle, which gives shaking room.
the 120 ml bottles are the same.

Not sure about unicorn bottles as I only use them to dispense from not to mix in.
 

zeeter

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To be clear, if I shake them it appears mixed, but then after a while they separate again.
 

zephyr

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To be clear, if I shake them it appears mixed, but then after a while they separate again.

That doesnt sound good. Where do you get your VG/PG, what brand flavorings and nicotine?
 

The Cromwell

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To be clear, if I shake them it appears mixed, but then after a while they separate again.
That is what I was talking about above which usually indicates oil in the mix.
Good PG nor VG will do this and no flavorings I have used would separate even over extended times once well shaken.
However I have seen pics of commercial ejuice that would do this and it was because of lemon/orange extract oil and such things in the mix.
And vaping oils is not good for ya can cause limp pneumonia or somesuch.

btw I use Essential Depot PG and VG and only Palm derived VG.
And use no Lorann flavorings although many of them are fine but several are oily.
 

gopher_byrd

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Do you shake your flavors and nic before adding them to your mix? I have never had this happen to me so I don't have a real fix. As others have asked, what flavors are you using?
 

zeeter

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In answer to all of the above, I've been using the same ingredients for a month and this never occurred before. The ONLY difference is the new 30ml bottles that are exactly 30ml. It could have something to do with a lack of air in the bottles. I'm going to leave the caps off again tonight but the last batch I made I don't think I even left the cap off overnight like I was supposed to.

I got a 10 lb jug of VG and 8 lb jug of PG from Bulk Apothecary. I don't pull from the bottle but instead pour about 80ml into a container and pull from there. This way I don't contaminate what's in the bottle. Not to mention it's pretty hard to pull from what is essentially a gallon jug. 100% pure from Nature's Oil. Ingredient is Vegetable Glycerin. I don't know how they make it and if there's a chance that oil can get in, but like I said, I've been using this for a month with no issues until now.

Just checked them again. One bottle looks like it's about ready to go. I can still see the VG moving when I turn the bottle upside down, but the color is uniform throughout. Hopefully tomorrow I'll be able to vape it.
 

zeeter

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I tried the one that looked almost done last night this morning. No more ribbons inside it. Was pretty clear and had uniformed color throughout. I could no longer see the VG move around when I turned the bottle upside down. Tastes pretty good. Not sure I'll try the recipe again but at least I know the entire mixing session wasn't bad.

The rest look a lot better today. One of them looks like the one last night did and the others look a lot closer. Less delineation between the VG and the PG.
 

The Cromwell

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If the bottle it virtually full of juice then mixing is VERY difficult.
Must have shaking room.
 

Time

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A little unconventional but if a person wanted to keep using those bottles you could drop in a small ball, maybe BB's, to aid in the shaking. Like a spray paint can.

Probably not practical for most, but would solve the no air for shaking problem.
 

wllmc

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I've experienced the same issues when I use 30 ml gorilla brand bottles. there is not enough room left for shaking so I will mix in a beaker and get one of those little tiny mini whisks and mix it then pour it into the bottle or like mentioned above mix 28 mls of juice and problem solved. I think there is a pretty huge misconception when it comes to Ejuice and purely my own opinion but it seems to me that people often think a juice MUST sit untouched for a magical number of days to be "ready" Ejuice is like anything else, PG will rise to the top and VG will sink to the bottom, same with soup or water and oil or milk and chocolate syrup or anything else. the science of viscosity and mixing 2 different liquids does not change just because it is Ejuice and if there is no room for shaking it's virtually impossible for the 2 different liquids to mix and they surely will never stay mixed sitting untouched. that is why we shake our flavors before we use them and why we shake our juice before we fill our tanks or drip on our RDAs.

Steeping is just waiting for nicotine to oxidize and steeping will not change how the flavors taste, again my opinion. Flavors just don't change because it sat for 12.5 days or wouldn't you think by the time your flavor was made by the manufacturer then shipped to a vendor and sat on a shelf for a month then shipped to your house and then sat in your cabinet for a month before you used that the flavor would be drastically different? wouldn't that flavor have steeped and changed? what does change though is nicotine. flavors don't change color but what does change color is nicotine when it oxidizes. periodic shaking over a day or two will ensure your flavors mix well so you are not getting pockets of different flavors being dominate but I've always challenged the idea that steeping changes the way a flavor taste. to test the theory on your own make a batch of 6mg and 12 mg juice and then mix a batch of zero mg juice and taste test along the way.
nicotine is the only thing you put in your juice that will change with time, it has a flavor and that flavor will change with oxidization. when people start lowering the mg usage they always say that their flavors taste much clearer or pop better and get smoother, that is simply because nicotine has a taste lol. less nicotine means more pronounced flavor shines through. a solid well put together recipe does not need steep time unless you are counting on the fact that your flavor profile needs oxidized nicotine to be a factor.
 

Neunerball

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@zeeter,
Besides, what other members already recommended, it sounds to me, you are mixing by volume. The Majority of us are mixing by utilizing percentages for our flavors. Utilizing a good eJuice calculator, makes it easy to change a recipe, let's say from 30ml resulting eJuice, to 29ml eJuice. In addition, I also recommend mixing by weight, rather by volume. It takes me 5-10 Minutes to mix a recipe, no matter of the resulting volume/ml of the mix.
 

Kinser

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In answer to all of the above, I've been using the same ingredients for a month and this never occurred before. The ONLY difference is the new 30ml bottles that are exactly 30ml. It could have something to do with a lack of air in the bottles. I'm going to leave the caps off again tonight but the last batch I made I don't think I even left the cap off overnight like I was supposed to.

I got a 10 lb jug of VG and 8 lb jug of PG from Bulk Apothecary. I don't pull from the bottle but instead pour about 80ml into a container and pull from there. This way I don't contaminate what's in the bottle. Not to mention it's pretty hard to pull from what is essentially a gallon jug. 100% pure from Nature's Oil. Ingredient is Vegetable Glycerin. I don't know how they make it and if there's a chance that oil can get in, but like I said, I've been using this for a month with no issues until now.

Just checked them again. One bottle looks like it's about ready to go. I can still see the VG moving when I turn the bottle upside down, but the color is uniform throughout. Hopefully tomorrow I'll be able to vape it.

If you're sure that the flavorings don't contain oil, and the same PG and VG have been used successfully to mix before it sounds to me like you over filled the bottle.

Since it has already been suggested to mix by percentage rather than volume, I won't repeat that suggestion. But I too strongly recommend getting a good calculator and mixing that way, or by weight (you'll need a metric scale that can go down to 0.01g at least, many restaurant supply stores have them--baking is a science and has to be exact).

I would recommend removing the juice you made, put into bottles that have worked in the past and try re-shaking. I have a few bottles that are like that (though they are glass--and also re-purposed old commercial juice bottles [yes I'm that cheap]).

As for putting plastic bottles on the stove--I think that would be a bad idea though you could boil water, remove the pot from the stove and then place the plastic bottles in there but I would also double check to see if the plastic the bottles are made of can handle temperatures around 100C (212F).
 

zeeter

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Member For 3 Years
@zeeter,
Besides, what other members already recommended, it sounds to me, you are mixing by volume. The Majority of us are mixing by utilizing percentages for our flavors. Utilizing a good eJuice calculator, makes it easy to change a recipe, let's say from 30ml resulting eJuice, to 29ml eJuice. In addition, I also recommend mixing by weight, rather by volume. It takes me 5-10 Minutes to mix a recipe, no matter of the resulting volume/ml of the mix.

Since it has already been suggested to mix by percentage rather than volume, I won't repeat that suggestion. But I too strongly recommend getting a good calculator and mixing that way, or by weight (you'll need a metric scale that can go down to 0.01g at least, many restaurant supply stores have them--baking is a science and has to be exact).

I mix exclusively by percentages. I use the steam engine to make the calculations and it does a fine job. I put in the nic concentrate (mg:ml), target nic, target VG and PG, and then the percentages of each ingredient. It has always turned out fine. I suppose I could reduce the amount to just under 30ml so that there's some extra room, but I'm more inclined to stick with my older bottles. 30ml just seems like a better number than 28 ml.
 
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zeeter

Bronze Contributor
Member For 3 Years
So here's the thing that I believe is the culprit. It's not specifically that there isn't enough room in the bottles to shake it, though that certainly contributes.

It's the lack of air in the bottles.

Case in point. I took two recipes that I have made before and cured for a week and a week and a half. With these, I used 120ml bottles to make 60ml each of e-liquid. The bottles were wide - one was a Vaptasia Royalty II, to give you a size example.

I made the liquids on Saturday and both bottles appear vapeable today. The key factor is that they not only have more e-liquid exposed to the air in the bottle due to it being wider, but there is also much more air in the bottle to begin with.

Also, again being wider bottles, when there were layers of pg/vg in the bottles more of it has been exposed to do the added area of the layer.

So:
1. More air in the bottle
2. More surface area exposed tot he air
3. More VG area contacting the PG area.
4. More room in the bottles to give them a good shake, and with a higher diameter, the more the different components can come in contact with each other when shaking.
 

Neunerball

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So here's the thing that I believe is the culprit. It's not specifically that there isn't enough room in the bottles to shake it, though that certainly contributes.

It's the lack of air in the bottles.

Case in point. I took two recipes that I have made before and cured for a week and a week and a half. With these, I used 120ml bottles to make 60ml each of e-liquid. The bottles were wide - one was a Vaptasia Royalty II, to give you a size example.

I made the liquids on Saturday and both bottles appear vapeable today. The key factor is that they not only have more e-liquid exposed to the air in the bottle due to it being wider, but there is also much more air in the bottle to begin with.

Also, again being wider bottles, when there were layers of pg/vg in the bottles more of it has been exposed to do the added area of the layer.

So:
1. More air in the bottle
2. More surface area exposed tot he air
3. More VG area contacting the PG area.
4. More room in the bottles to give them a good shake, and with a higher diameter, the more the different components can come in contact with each other when shaking.
Personally, I prefer utilizing the calculator to be found on http://e-liquid-recipes.com. Most of my recipes I mix in a 120 ml brown glass bottle. However, my recipe's volume is for 115 ml, giving me some "wiggle" room. In addition, when I do mix, I start off with the flavors (usually in PG), then the according PG, then my 100% Nicotine base (in VG), last, the VG. Then I give it a good shake, resulting in a "milky" looking liquid.
 

zeeter

Bronze Contributor
Member For 3 Years
Personally, I prefer utilizing the calculator to be found on http://e-liquid-recipes.com. Most of my recipes I mix in a 120 ml brown glass bottle. However, my recipe's volume is for 115 ml, giving me some "wiggle" room. In addition, when I do mix, I start off with the flavors (usually in PG), then the according PG, then my 100% Nicotine base (in VG), last, the VG. Then I give it a good shake, resulting in a "milky" looking liquid.

That's where I get a lot of ideas for my recipes.
 

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