Njord RDA by Morten Oen

[OldMadScientist]

What he is showing with the airflow in his little chamber is basically right.

If air simply took a direct or shortest path from high to low pressure, planes would not fly and sail boats would not move.

The problem with the rda seems pretty clear to me — massively excessive airflow in a massively excessive chamber with just one coil. Also, not taking into account the effects of friction across the relatively massive distance between the air holes and the coil. But anyway, the path of all that air doesn’t matter — it just can’t work with so much air flowing relative to coil surface area. It’s like a little coil in a hurricane. He didn’t model any of that — he modeled just the path of the (way too much) air. Because of that, I don’t think the blades will help much. A coil making vapor in a hurricane tastes like the hurricane, not the vapor.

 

[Synphul]

Seems like a bit of a finicky design. It's different for sure but doesn't always make it a hit functional wise. Without the air blades It may have been an issue of just too much non adjustable airflow with a single coil diluting the vapor. Not sure if the air blades will actually help or not.

I appreciate Morten's enthusiasm but a lot of it isn't near as sciencey as it would seem. Chambers are often square boxes, not round like an rda unless it's one of those cube rda's. It's sort of to scale, I saw him inhale on a model while burning his juice on an rda near the air inlet of his mockup. So the vapor is 1:1, the inhale and lung capacity are 1:1, the mockup is like 20:1 - no, just no. That's not science. I think there's a conflict of theory and actual science causing some unexpected results evidenced by the njord. Can't say for sure though since I don't know if the company followed Morten's design 100% or if they altered it any in production. There could be a disconnect there but all people can consider is what was actually produced.

Just like the 'wick it hard' rule. Now I know he uses primarly hammer flattened wire and has his own vaping preference. Maybe wicking it 'hard' works for him. I tried the whole wick it hard thing in a couple different rta's and rda's without much luck but then I use mostly twisted or fused claptons, not flattened wire. The rda's fared better but that's not saying much as juice is dripped right onto the coils. It choked the hell out of my rta's and I got wicked dry hits. It was like scottish roll wicking, something different and worth a shot and if it works for someone then fantastic. It's hardly the end all be all of 'proper' wicking.

Whenever you suggest it's not working there's pushback and 'you' are the one doing it wrong. Using the wrong coils, wrong builds etc. Well no, the wicking needs to work with MY builds or it's pointless. If it's so great it shouldn't have to be under specific circumstances. It's hard to advertise a kitchen knife as the best and then tell everyone when it's not cutting well - oh well you're trying to cut chicken, that's why. Use only on rare tbones, not pork, not fish, not chicken, not porterhouse or filet mignon. Only eat rare tbones and it works wonderful. Dafuq? No.

 

[Carambrda]

I appreciate Morten's enthusiasm but a lot of it isn't near as sciencey as it would seem. Chambers are often square boxes, not round like an rda unless it's one of those cube rda's. It's sort of to scale, I saw him inhale on a model while burning his juice on an rda near the air inlet of his mockup. So the vapor is 1:1, the inhale and lung capacity are 1:1, the mockup is like 20:1 - no, just no. That's not science.

It most definitely is science. The vapor is just to make the airflow visible much similar to adding sawdust to make water convection visible under a spotlight because the relatively very small difference in behavior between vapor and just air is so small it matters not in this instance, and, he did say he experimented with a vacuum cleaner the motor of which is variable speed so both the force of the inhale and lung capacity were properly taken into account. Now, if in a rectangular chamber the air shoots straight in, which it does so very clearly you'd have to be blind as a bat to not be able to see that it does, then it sure as fuck will shoot straight in regardless of the chamber's shape because it's pretty obvious were's not dealing with the science of acoustics here.

As for your remark about wicking, I'll only say this... I didn't read it thoroughly after I saw you fail to understand the part about coil positioning vs airflow. It's because worrying about wicking doesn't make any real sense before the coils have been positioned correctly.

 

[OldMadScientist]

. . . . Just like the 'wick it hard' rule. Now I know he uses primarly hammer flattened wire and has his own vaping preference. Maybe wicking it 'hard' works for him. I tried the whole wick it hard thing in a couple different rta's and rda's without much luck but then I use mostly twisted or fused claptons, not flattened wire. The rda's fared better but that's not saying much as juice is dripped right onto the coils. It choked the hell out of my rta's and I got wicked dry hits. It was like scottish roll wicking, something different and worth a shot and if it works for someone then fantastic. It's hardly the end all be all of 'proper' wicking. . . .

I’ve had similar results. Wicking it hard does work well enough, is easy, and is backed by Morten’s trials but I just don’t like the way it vapes compared to a looser wick.

I’d prefer if he (and his many acolytes) would just present the data and leave it at that. It almost seems like a cult. I guess that’s a common occurance in vaping. The opposite has also occurred many times over, e.g. reviewers everywhere talk about not “choking” the cotton with too much density but that’s another old wives tale I see repeated just about daily. Ideas, and notions, and unsupported assumptions camoflaged as “common sense” spread virally and morph into dogma.

 

[Don29palms]

I’ve had similar results. Wicking it hard does work well enough, is easy, and is backed by Morten’s trials but I just don’t like the way it vapes compared to a looser wick.

I’d prefer if he (and his many acolytes) would just present the data and leave it at that. It almost seems like a cult. I guess that’s a common occurance in vaping. The opposite has also occurred many times over, e.g. reviewers everywhere talk about not “choking” the cotton with too much density but that’s another old wives tale I see repeated just about daily. Ideas, and notions, and unsupported assumptions camoflaged as “common sense” spread virally and morph into dogma.

All Oen proves with his videos is he's a damn con man. Anybody with common sense and the slightlest understanding of physics and aerodynamics knows that. He designed an RDA based on his principals that proves he has no clue what he's doing.

 

[OldMadScientist]

All Oen proves with his videos is he's a damn con man. Anybody with common sense and the slightlest understanding of physics and aerodynamics knows that. He designed an RDA based on his principals that proves he has no clue what he's doing.

Come on now, tell us what you really think lol.

Common sense is usually just an untested assumption that seems right — there is no such thing as common sense aside from taking a good guess. Anyway, what he shows is basically right but he leaves way too much out of his modeling to draw sound conclusions. As a result of that he has jumped to several quick conclusions that have some grounding in fact (and thus appeal to reason superficially) but end up being far too simplistic to be anywhere near right when the rubber meets the road and it comes time to apply what he thinks he knows. The RDA’s (lack of) performance reflects that.

I think he’s sincere but has huge blind spots in his understanding — “no clue” is one way to put it lol. I’d be more generous and just say he is naive to think that the observation of a single airflow phenomenon is enough to get a full understanding of the hydrodynamics of airflow. Um, no. There is order in the chaos but teasing it out takes a lot more work than he has done so far.

 

[Synphul]

People were wondering how to go about testing airflow inside an rda, I wonder if a smoke machine would work along with an rda that has a glass cap. Obviously it wouldn't work for all rda/rta designs. The suction applied to the drip tip would have to be done carefully to mimic the actual suction of human lungs and perhaps across a spectrum to simulate softer and harder inhales. A smoke machine would create visible media minus the moisture and heat caused by vaping actual ejuice so the glass hopefully wouldn't become clouded and covered with condensation. It would also likely require the use of a high speed camera to slow the footage down and be able to see the actual flow of air around actual wicked coils.

I've never been fond of altering things with small scale or larger scale. Even if all aspects are somehow maintained to an equal size proportionate to each other as with the 1:1, there are times scaling adds unexpected results. It can help to estimate things but beyond that it's never a sure thing.

Sort of like wicking tests many have repeated where they use a piece of paper, insert a piece of wicking through a hole in the paper and then rest it in ejuice. It shows how the tails of the wick absorb, sure. It doesn't replicate the portion of the wick stuffed through a coil and that's the part that matters. It's entirely possible to have saturated wick tails and still get dry hits because the ejuice made its way all the way to the edge of the coil, then get choked and isn't saturating the part in contact with the heat. Obviously it can't be too loose, but wicking too tightly isn't good either. There has to be room for the juice to absorb into the cotton. As it is the tails are almost always big and fluffy compared to where it's cinched down through the coil.

Another simple way to test the concept, soak a towel in water. Once it's saturated the excess will drip and run off as the towel can't absorb anymore. Now grip it tightly and squeeze and watch all the extra water being pushed out of it. Keep squeezing it tighter, twist and wring it. The towel is much drier than when it was soaked meaning it's holding less 'juice'. The less juice the faster it dries out. Hold the damp towel in water while keeping it twisted tight and it won't reabsorb more water than it did without being squashed tight. Being bound and keeping it bound tight it's lost some of its capacity.

Just as with candle wicks, tightly braided or knitted wicks are preferred for a slower burn. It's a bit different from vaping, with candles you want the fuel to burn steady and slow for maximum efficiency. Why are twisted wicks cheaper and less desirable? Because they're looser and as such they deliver the fuel to the flame at a much faster rate. That's usually a good thing in vaping, getting juice to the coil efficiently. Not advocating for using puny wicks that slide right through the coil or anything, but I do think jamming the cotton through like trying to plug a hole in the bottom of a leaking rowboat is a bad idea as well.

 

[mach1ne]

the 'science' behind a lot of his experiments has holes in it though, especially with regard to getting a better vape.

-in his airflow tests, the 'coils' never heat up. in reality, hot coils that are spitting out vapor will have a dramatic effect on the interior airflow/air pressure compared to his tests. its hard to say if that is having an effect on his results and their bearing on reality, but it seems like it would to me.

-his wicking tests dont take hot coils into account either, they just measure how long it takes cold juice to wick into cold coils. one of the main contributing factors to capillary action in our wicks is the changes in temp that they go through as we vape them. i dont care how they work in a plastic container full of juice and it has no relation to what its like to vape them. thats like comparing the speed of two different cars, by rolling them down a hill side by side in neutral with the engines off.

-his only concern in single vs dual coil testing was battery efficiency. more metal requires more power to heat. there is no reason to test this at all. these tests actually had so many logical holes in them they were virtually useless imo.

so basically there is nothing about getting a better vape in any of those tests. with that said, i like the way he presents himself as a person on video, i respect the work and thought he puts into his testing, and watching him change and learn from his own findings is great. this is the spirit of science imo, and thats what is appealing to me. i have learned some things and pieced together some details as a result of watching his experiments that helped me get a better vape, and i very much appreciate that...even if it wasnt what he was trying to teach me at the time with his experiment/theory. the thing with 'doing science' is that the point of it is to be proven wrong over and over until you cant any more, at which point, you are 'right'. without him or someone else doing this, we wouldnt be making any progress at all. so man, thanks for all the science.

 

[OldMadScientist]

An experiment I’ve been toying with doing for a while now is to weigh the device, take a measured draw of air volume at a controlled flow rate (both at rates comparable to a typical draw — if there is such a thing), and weigh the device after. The difference in weight is amount of juice that actually leaves the device in the vape. Then adjust how air hits the coil, Thomas Edison style (trial and error), until juice used is maximized and then see how it actually vapes. The theory is that more juice uptake per unit of air = more flavor and a “richer” vape experience.

A big assumption is that more juice boils off into the actual vape stream (rather than just condensing inside somewhere) with optimal airflow for a good vape, than with less than optimal airflow. It makes sense but only way to know is to try it and see.

 

[Don29palms]

 

[jwill]

I made a preorder for an Atom Sandman that come with one of these. Should know pretty soon what this RDA is all about.

 

[Iliketurtles]

It is here

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[Iliketurtles]

OK so I built it pretty much as Morten Oen suggested 'ish' .6Ω 2.5mm i.d. 25 gauge flat kanthal and vaping it at 40W. Works fine. Happy with purchase. Seems like zero spitback which is how I like it, I like to vape juice not drink it. So first impression is - I like it. That doesn't mean anyone else will

 

[St.Roostifer]

Glad you like it turtles. Did you get the airflow insert with it?

 

[Iliketurtles]

Glad you like it turtles. Did you get the airflow insert with it?

yes, it makes a difference....which suggests airflow don't really work in an atomiser like he thinks it does

 

[skt239]

yes, it makes a difference....which suggests airflow don't really work in an atomiser like he thinks it does

So without the inserts, how would you rate the flavor?

 

[Iliketurtles]

So without the inserts, how would you rate the flavor?

OK but a bit weak, it's not terrible and may be decent if you had a more power hungry build in it...but I don't so..

 

[nikcorda]

im new here, but i’ll share my two pennies of experience so far.

i am a big morten fan, and was very excited about this rda, until the reviews came out. i use flavorless juice, so flavor was not a big deal to me. but combined with the terrible build quality reviewers were reporting, especially the supposed paint coming off, i decided to request a refund from atom vapes.

that was like 3 weeks ago that i requested the refund, never heard anything from atom vapes. the rda showed up in my mailbox yesterday haha. i havent put a build in it yet, but i inspected and cleaned it last night, and im actually very impressed with the quality. the paint or powdercoat or whatever seems to be on there very well, scrubbed the inside and out with a q tip and 90% alcohol, nothing came off at all. all the tolerances are very tight, o-rings are tight but not unremovable.

i’ll have a build in it by tomorrow and will update shortly after.

 

[nikcorda]

well i was getting a decent vape off the njord. i took the cap off yesterday to check things out, and when i wiped the inside of the cap there was some black stuff on the white towel i used. so i will not be using this rda anymore, not trying to vape this black paint thats now coming off. going to try to contact atom vapes about a refund but not getting my hopes up.

the unsettling part was watching morten’s newest video where he discusses his new rda from cthulhu. he mentions that the deck is stainless to avoid issues with a painted deck, then chuckles...

 

[St.Roostifer]

Good grief. This rda has been a buffet of cluster ala fuck from the get go. Flavor lacks so Atom vape has to make an insert to direct more airflow at the coil and now the paint is coming off on the inside? Where's a facepalm emoji when ya need one!

 

[Cosmic]

Apparently he had another project going with Cthulu called the Zathog rda, I'd seen the video and it's up for sale on Cthulu website. Much more interesting design I think......and an odd one. There is a side airflow but the intake is very small. There is a top airflow port that is much larger. The deck is shaped like a curved w and the coils are suspended in the curves. The side airflow shoots downward towards the coil.....this might be a very effective flavor atty, possibly, but the airflow situation has me perplexed. I did make a comment on youtube....he was kind enough to reply, he wrote this:


Morten Oen1 day ago
Most of this airflow business is very counter-intuitive. The air holes are made to move air in the right direction, not too fast, not too slow. Being so effective, not much air is needed. With air comming in just from the top the coils boil a lot more, so a lot of big droplets will be in the airflow. These droplets carry the sugars. We have had a long time to test this.

This reply also has me, well, perplexed, but I am half tempted to order this one and give it a whirl with some simple fused claptons or even a couple of round wire coils, I get the feeling looking at it that its not built for large coils or higher power. If I do I'll put up a little amateur review for sure

Zathog RDA review by Morton

 

[Don29palms]

I am surprised Cthulu would tie their name to Oen the con man.

 

[Roadtrip635]

Apparently he had another project going with Cthulu called the Zathog rda, I'd seen the video and it's up for sale on Cthulu website. Much more interesting design I think......and an odd one. There is a side airflow but the intake is very small. There is a top airflow port that is much larger. The deck is shaped like a curved w and the coils are suspended in the curves. The side airflow shoots downward towards the coil.....this might be a very effective flavor atty, possibly, but the airflow situation has me perplexed. I did make a comment on youtube....he was kind enough to reply, he wrote this:


Morten Oen1 day ago
Most of this airflow business is very counter-intuitive. The air holes are made to move air in the right direction, not too fast, not too slow. Being so effective, not much air is needed. With air comming in just from the top the coils boil a lot more, so a lot of big droplets will be in the airflow. These droplets carry the sugars. We have had a long time to test this.

This reply also has me, well, perplexed, but I am half tempted to order this one and give it a whirl with some simple fused claptons or even a couple of round wire coils, I get the feeling looking at it that its not built for large coils or higher power. If I do I'll put up a little amateur review for sure

Zathog RDA review by Morton

"a lot of big droplets will be in the airflow" sounds a lot like, spitback is being designed into the performance.

 

[St.Roostifer]

I get what he's saying about not having too much airflow directly hitting the coils, it's similar to closing down the airflow to reduce the amount of air so the coils get a bit hotter to bring out more flavor. However, the wicking has to be spot on and the user has to know what they are doing with setting the wattage or they will burn the cotton and the vape will taste like shit. This rda is definitely for advanced users.

I'll give Oen credit, this rda looks more interesting with much more function from the airflow design than the Njord. That said, I can't help but feel it's more complicated than it needs to be, especially for being 30mm. Nice rda but definitely not for me.

 

[Cosmic]

Yeah, those side airflow ports are pretty damned small. Unless you hook this thing up to a shop-vac I can see the side air just gently kisses the coil...and the top airflow scoops up the vapor? But he mentions that "it really doesn't get going until you hit 120 or 150 watts"...in which case I'd normally think you'd need a hell of alot more side airflow. Somebody edumacate me on this.

 

[St.Roostifer]

With the smaller airflow ports at a 45° downward angle, it would appear that Oen is relying on the smaller airflow ports to increase the vacuum and create more airflow velocity around the coils to cool them.

Bigger airflow ports will have less vacuum and airflow velocity. This is the style were used to seeing on most rtas and rdas. We compensate for this by placing our coils closer to where the airflow comes in.

I can see Oen put much more thought into the design of the zathog. I've railed on him pretty good in this thread about his design of the Njord but it's only right to give credit where it's due.

 

[Don29palms]

I get what he's saying about not having too much airflow directly hitting the coils, it's similar to closing down the airflow to reduce the amount of air so the coils get a bit hotter to bring out more flavor. However, the wicking has to be spot on and the user has to know what they are doing with setting the wattage or they will burn the cotton and the vape will taste like shit. This rda is definitely for advanced users.

I'll give Oen credit, this rda looks more interesting with much more function from the airflow design than the Njord. That said, I can't help but feel it's more complicated than it needs to be, especially for being 30mm. Nice rda but definitely not for me.

So how are they going to make an insert to fix the zathog rda?

 

[St.Roostifer]

So how are they going to make an insert to fix the zathog rda?

My recommendation would be either 1) third party that shit and have Atom vapes get involved or 2) call Tony Hawk to get his thoughts on how to get air on the double half pipe.

 

[pulsevape]

wake me up when Oen actually throws something agianst the wall and it finally sticks....after all even a blind squriell finds an acorn once in a while....I'll take y'alls word for it,because I would rather get a root canal than watch another of Oen's videos....

 

[OldMadScientist]

I get what he's saying about not having too much airflow directly hitting the coils, it's similar to closing down the airflow to reduce the amount of air so the coils get a bit hotter to bring out more flavor. However, the wicking has to be spot on and the user has to know what they are doing with setting the wattage or they will burn the cotton and the vape will taste like shit. This rda is definitely for advanced users.

I'll give Oen credit, this rda looks more interesting with much more function from the airflow design than the Njord. That said, I can't help but feel it's more complicated than it needs to be, especially for being 30mm. Nice rda but definitely not for me.

If it actually works the way he says it does, I’d also predict a very harsh vape, just as you say. I’m not too worried about that though. There’s not even a very slight chance the airflow actually does what he says it does.

I’m also becoming increasingly entertained by his constant made up pseudo-science babble. Bringing out the non-existent “sugars” in the juice by aiming to boil the crap out of it. Genius! He needs to start making up his own words just like all the marketing hucksters out there, to be lapped up by the ignorant. He’ll be rich in no time. Let’s see, this new RDA has an exclusive, patent pending “sucrovortex” airflow design that “micronebulates” all the sugars in the juice. Oh yeah, sucrovortex micronebulation — I gotta have me some of that.

 

[pulsevape]

If it actually works the way he says it does, I’d also predict a very harsh vape, just as you say. I’m not too worried about that though. There’s not even a very slight chance the airflow actually does what he says it does.

I’m also becoming increasingly entertained by his constant made up pseudo-science babble. Bringing out the non-existent “sugars” in the juice by aiming to boil the crap out of it. Genius! He needs to start making up his own words just like all the marketing hucksters out there, to be lapped up by the ignorant. He’ll be rich in no time. Let’s see, this new RDA has an exclusive, patent pending “sucrovortex” airflow design that “micronebulates” all the sugars in the juice. Oh yeah, sucrovortex micronebulation — I gotta have me some of that.

the sucrovortex ...30mm with a bubble tank comes in 6 colors and now with racing stripes on the top cap....LOL...I think old Oen needs to get out of the cabin more often.

 

[KingPin!]

Let’s see, this new RDA has an exclusive, patent pending “sucrovortex” airflow design that “micronebulates” all the sugars in the juice. Oh yeah, sucrovortex micronebulation — I gotta have me some of that.

I’ll bare witness ...saw it here first!

We definitely need to cover off the Discombobulated Airflow Management System as well...the DAMS RDA

 

[Don29palms]

the sucrovortex ...30mm with a bubble tank comes in 6 colors and now with racing stripes on the top cap....LOL...I think old Oen needs to get out of the cabin more often.

He stays in his cabin so you don't have to.

 

[jwill]

Hopefully the atom mod doesnt suck as much as the RDA. This is bumming me out knowing I have a box of shit vape mail en route. Its like a flaming bag of poop on your doorstep.

 

[St.Roostifer]

If it actually works the way he says it does, I’d also predict a very harsh vape, just as you say. I’m not too worried about that though. There’s not even a very slight chance the airflow actually does what he says it does.

I’m also becoming increasingly entertained by his constant made up pseudo-science babble. Bringing out the non-existent “sugars” in the juice by aiming to boil the crap out of it. Genius! He needs to start making up his own words just like all the marketing hucksters out there, to be lapped up by the ignorant. He’ll be rich in no time. Let’s see, this new RDA has an exclusive, patent pending “sucrovortex” airflow design that “micronebulates” all the sugars in the juice. Oh yeah, sucrovortex micronebulation — I gotta have me some of that.

Great post man, pure gold!

I looked at the comments under the video. His cult following is already praising him for his psycho-babble bullshit.

While I do see the theory he's driving at. I also see that he's trying to recreate the wheel by complicating it so he appears to be innovating the industry while gaining praise from his dumbed-down cult following.

Trying to make the airflow skate on a half pipe is unnecessary. Look at the attys known for their flavor. They are simple in their design that places the coil directly between the incoming air ports and the drip tip with some restriction on the airflow itself to prevent an airy vape with muted flavor, like the Njord.

I swear man, if I didn't know better I'd say Oen's brand of bullshit was taken out of an old 1960's government CIA-op manual.

 

[St.Roostifer]

Oh yeah, been meaning to that I did watch twisted messes Morten Oen inspired video. I respect TM for his early innovations in building I'm 1) not going to take advice from a guy that admits he never thought of how coil positioning could affect the vape, duh! and 2) is a Fucking has-been in the world of building and is still riding the coat tails of success from years past. There's so many better builders out there and on this very forum! I take TM's words with a grain of salt and is just another vape celebrity, nothing more.

 

[KingPin!]

....That might be regarded as heresey in the build section

 

[KingPin!]

By the way ...how I test airflow ^^

 

[St.Roostifer]

By the way ...how I test airflow ^^

Very scientific! You should make videos on YouTube!

 

[KingPin!]

There’s no sugar bubbling on that fucker ...thanks mate although I think it lacks a vacuum though

...my approach to testing at the moment

The launch and run strategy

Think I need a box of some sort? maybe coil placement that’ll come next

 

[St.Roostifer]

There’s no sugar bubbling on that fucker ...thanks mate although I think it lacks a vacuum though

...my approach to testing at the moment

The launch a run strategy

Think I need a box of some sort? maybe coil placement that’ll come next

Ha ha the " throw and go" approach! Who flung poo!!!
A box would certainly help. If anything it will hold the poo until the next airflow experiment.

 

[Carambrda]

There’s no sugar bubbling on that fucker ...thanks mate although I think it lacks a vacuum though

...my approach to testing at the moment

The launch and run strategy

Think I need a box of some sort? maybe coil placement that’ll come next

First they lock the poor guy up in a zoo, next they put a "see more animals being jerks" link underneath.

 

[zephyr]

Oh yeah, been meaning to that I did watch twisted messes Morten Oen inspired video. I respect TM for his early innovations in building I'm 1) not going to take advice from a guy that admits he never thought of how coil positioning could affect the vape, duh! and 2) is a Fucking has-been in the world of building and is still riding the coat tails of success from years past. There's so many better builders out there and on this very forum! I take TM's words with a grain of salt and is just another vape celebrity, nothing more.

....That might be regarded as heresey in the build section

Blasphemy! Heretic! Burn him at the stake!!!

Just kidding, but new builders no matter how talented, sort of like how Kirk Hammett regards Joe Satriani - Hammett still took lessons with him long after becoming a great guitarist; I like Metallica way more than Satriani, but would we have had Metallica without the lessons Satriani gave Kirk Hammett??

 

[St.Roostifer]

Blasphemy! Heretic! Burn him at the stake!!!

Just kidding, but new builders no matter how talented, sort of like how Kirk Hammett regards Joe Satriani - Hammett still took lessons with him long after becoming a great guitarist; I like Metallica way more than Satriani, but would we have had Metallica without the lessons Satriani gave Kirk Hammett??

Satriani continued making music for years after teaching Hammett.

Satriani is getting too much credit though. If it wasn't for Dave Mustaine's h*roin use, Hammett never would have gotten the opportunity with Metallica in the first place so Hammett has Mustaine to thank.

 

[Carambrda]

getting too much credit

Nah.

 

[zephyr]

Nah.

WTF hahaha

 

[St.Roostifer]

Nah.

 

[zephyr]

Drugs are bad, mmmk?

 

[St.Roostifer]

Drugs are bad, mmmk?

So true...

 

[KingPin!]

First they lock the poor guy up in a zoo, next they put a "see more animals being jerks" link underneath.

Yeah ...wasnt looking at that in truth ...it fit the picture above it