Ohm law question

[TumTumVapes]

Not sure on this. I mainly use my rig V3 tube mech mod now a days. I normally just do 22g 5 wraps withon the 3 on my coil wrapping thing. Normally come out to be .2 - .18. I recently started messing around with SS not sure my gauge wire but anyway i did the same 5 wrap it comes out to be .08. I use 18650imr 3000mAh 3.7v 35A MXJO batteries. Is this safe to use? I hit it a few times really liked the way it ripped. But that's not worth it if it's like dangerous. If you folks have any recommendations for simple wire builds for my mech mod set up any advice would be much appreciated.

 

[TumTumVapes]

.

 

[Mattp169]

ok
no its not safe to do it simple answer
a .08 coil requires about 52 amps
NO BATTERY IS 52 amps

use steam-engine.org to figure out your amps
amps are what you need to watch
many 18650 batteries are good up to 20 amps some a little higher some lower
If your coil needs more amps then your battery can provide you can go boom
i man named mooch does a lot of testing on batteries and publishes his results
heres a link to his results
https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/list-of-battery-tests.7436/
it says your battery is really only good up to 20 amps not 35
what they put on the battery is not necessarily true for all applications or for anything more then a a quick pulse

here is a link to moochs recommended batteries
https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/attachments/img_4813-jpg.643937/

basically on a tube mod with most 18650s you want to stay above .4
so if your doing ss wire 316l
26 gauge on a 3mm rod with 6 wraps for a single coil will be fine
if your doing 2 coils
you may want to jump up to 28 gauge and make each coil 6-7 wraps

 

[Mattp169]

and just playing around on steam engine tells me you probably have 22 gauge SS 316l and you ar using dual coils

 

[TumTumVapes]

Sorry for the kinda a dumb question with your explanation and when I just read online I think I have this understood. Glad I know its not 35A

 

[TumTumVapes]

That is so helpful thank you so much I'm going to build that coil right now

 

[Carambrda]

Personally I wouldn't do that because it's only a 19 amp battery so, even though you're not going to immediately cause the battery to start venting, you should still be aware that you're really stressing your battery so you'd need to do short pulls to avoid your battery from internally overheating as there may be tiny little areas on the inside of your battery in which excess heat is generated too rapidly with every pull that you take. Also, the outside of the battery may still only feel lukewarm, maybe even be still cold to the touch, but... if you don't let the battery cool down for several minutes after every pull, then the worst that could happen is you're gradually damaging the battery till it no longer can be reliable as those weakest spots keep growing weaker step by step. Either way, there will be warning signs before an 18650 Lithium rechargeable battery starts to vent. You'll notice that temperature is going way up before the bad stuff happens. The real danger comes from the fact if something happens to the mod in such a way that the button gets accidentally pressed for a long period, the speed at which the battery heats up would be so fast, you wouldn't have enough time left to still be able to put the mod on a non flammable surface and run for your fucking life because as soon as you notice those warning signs it'll already be too fucking late. And, if that button keeps getting pressed continuously for whatever silly reason... lo and behold, man, great sensational fireworks everywhere! So my advice to you is just go and get yourself some VTC5A batteries, let it cool down after every pull, take a deep breath, relax, and vape extremely very happily ever after.

 

[Carambrda]

ok
no its not safe to do it simple answer
a .08 coil requires about 52 amps
NO BATTERY IS 52 amps

use steam-engine.org to figure out your amps
amps are what you need to watch
many 18650 batteries are good up to 20 amps some a little higher some lower
If your coil needs more amps then your battery can provide you can go boom
i man named mooch does a lot of testing on batteries and publishes his results
heres a link to his results
https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/list-of-battery-tests.7436/
it says your battery is really only good up to 20 amps not 35
what they put on the battery is not necessarily true for all applications or for anything more then a a quick pulse

here is a link to moochs recommended batteries
https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/attachments/img_4813-jpg.643937/

basically on a tube mod with most 18650s you want to stay above .4
so if your doing ss wire 316l
26 gauge on a 3mm rod with 6 wraps for a single coil will be fine
if your doing 2 coils
you may want to jump up to 28 gauge and make each coil 6-7 wraps

Don't get me wrong... I know when dealing with noobs it's probably best to give them pieces of advice that's got training wheels attached, except you're not training anyone by merely acting like just another ohms nazi. There's no chance on mother earth that a .08 ohms build can draw 52 amps from a single 18650 battery. People need to start learning about voltage sag, and, even if you do draw 52 amps, with a single LG HB6 it would still be doable because you're only pulsing, NOT doing a continuous discharge of the battery AND in fact I know a shit ton of people who pulse their single VTC5A at waa-aaaaa-aaaaaaaaay more than 52 amps. No matter what you do or don't do, there's always some risk involved with 18650 Lithium rechargeable batteries, and that can hurt. The trick William Potter is not minding that it hurts. (Or something like that...)

 

[Mattp169]

Don't get me wrong... I know when dealing with noobs it's probably best to give them pieces of advice that's got training wheels attached, except you're not training anyone by merely acting like just another ohms nazi. There's no chance on mother earth that a .08 ohms build can draw 52 amps from a single 18650 battery. People need to start learning about voltage sag, and, even if you do draw 52 amps, with a single LG HB6 it would still be doable because you're only pulsing, NOT doing a continuous discharge of the battery AND in fact I know a shit ton of people who pulse their single VTC5A at waa-aaaaa-aaaaaaaaay more than 52 amps. No matter what you do or don't do, there's always some risk involved with 18650 Lithium rechargeable batteries, and that can hurt. The trick William Potter is not minding that it hurts. (Or something like that...)

yes people who do that stuff KNOW what they are doing.. teh poster does not seem to hav e that level of knowledge yet, so my advice was simplistic

 

[TumTumVapes]

Don't get me wrong... I know when dealing with noobs it's probably best to give them pieces of advice that's got training wheels attached, except you're not training anyone by merely acting like just another ohms nazi. There's no chance on mother earth that a .08 ohms build can draw 52 amps from a single 18650 battery. People need to start learning about voltage sag, and, even if you do draw 52 amps, with a single LG HB6 it would still be doable because you're only pulsing, NOT doing a continuous discharge of the battery AND in fact I know a shit ton of people who pulse their single VTC5A at waa-aaaaa-aaaaaaaaay more than 52 amps. No matter what you do or don't do, there's always some risk involved with 18650 Lithium rechargeable batteries, and that can hurt. The trick William Potter is not minding that it hurts. (Or something like that...)

I was wondering that i have a pair of framed Clapton's that i had built and put on my roughneck v3 I think its like a .1 compared the same exact pair on my goon. No need to do anything but puls those. Been using them for the last few months "not same set" just took them off because was shaded out after reading about ohm and batt limitations. I was building 22g kanthal .18-.2 ohm builds for the last few months on my single 18650. Trying to understand it all I guess still, what are the safe limitations as long as I'm not being a complete idiot about it. Like changing my batteries often enough and everything. I think so far this has helped a lot.

 

[TumTumVapes]

I was wondering that i have a pair of framed Clapton's that i had built and put on my roughneck v3 I think its like a .1 compared the same exact pair on my goon. No need to do anything but puls those. Been using them for the last few months "not same set" just took them off because was shaded out after reading about ohm and batt limitations. I was building 22g kanthal .18-.2 ohm builds for the last few months on my single 18650. Trying to understand it all I guess still, what are the safe limitations as long as I'm not being a complete idiot about it. Like changing my batteries often enough and everything. I think so far this has helped a lot.

Probably not as simple answer as I would like it to be. Ordered some ss wire to do those builds that were mentioned

 

[Carambrda]

With a single VTC5A on a mech I think .1 or .11 ohms is about the sweet spot, but it depends who you ask. I just think if you build at .08 or lower you aren't getting that much better vape performance, but instead you're making the VTC5A suffer such a great deal it's just not worth doing that all the time. (Even, if you let the battery rest for several minutes after every hit.) With a HB6 it's not really worth either because it hits less hard than the VTC5A, and it's only 1500 mAh so if you want to get more, or should I say... different, vape performance out of a higher ohms build like for example a fused clapton with Kanthal cores wrapped in Nichrome80 dual coil build that ohms out at maybe .23 ohms then IMHO the easiest best way to achieve that is to just go for a dual battery series mech instead. There are several many single battery tube mechs out there that come with an optional extension tube─or two, or three...

 

[xpen]

I think a simplistic, conservative approach to be preferable when sharing knowledge with newcomers.
Bloody details can confuse people, and confused people may go boom with a mech.
If you know what you're doing, good for you, but don't assume people are always able to digest complicated stuff..

 

[Carambrda]

I think a simplistic, conservative approach to be preferable when sharing knowledge with newcomers.
Bloody details can confuse people, and confused people may go boom with a mech.
If you know what you're doing, good for you, but don't assume people are always able to digest complicated stuff..

Sure, but then how exactly does one accurately define "a simplistic, conservative approach"? What truly baffles me are people telling every newcomer to wear a flannel suit and just keep living inside a padded room.

https://youtu.be/rukKh92ZCOM?t=6309

 

[KingPin!]

Hi TumTum

On a mech if you have a calculator on your phone you can work out the amp draw for a mech it doesn't need to be over complicated If you use a single battery mech. Since you know two things to start with

Voltage (V) of battery at max charge = 4.2v
Resistence (R) of your coil = 0.08ohm

Current (I) = V / R so that's 4.2 / 0.08 = 52.5amps! That's a lot of amps

Now there are things like voltage drop (internal mod resistence) and battery sag (how quickly the battery can effectively discharge) so that 4.2v is probably closer to 3.8v under load at full charge (still 47.5 amps) but for safety purposes to start with just calculate from 4.2v until you know you way around the mech or can measure the drops on a resistence reader

If you have series or parralel mech that changes things up a little but for now unless you are using more than one battery in the mech I'll leave it there

 

[KingPin!]

Also you are better off like Matt said build higher with thinner gauge wire like 28 gauge or something it will ramp up much faster for you

 

[xpen]

Sure, but then how exactly does one accurately define "a simplistic, conservative approach"? What truly baffles me are people telling every newcomer to wear a flannel suit and just keep living inside a padded room.

https://youtu.be/rukKh92ZCOM?t=6309

Just by teaching them to always keep a good safety margin
People don't vape in labs, under strictly controlled parameters... old/defective/fake batteries are common, as well as human errors
When approaching (single battery) mechs, IMO a 0.5 ohm build is enough to test the waters without any significant risk - with an average 18650
When you have mastered a basic setup then you can consider pushing it further, if you're so inclined

 

[Carambrda]

For safety purposes start with doing your homework on battery safety as opposed to taking advice from those people who have failed to do the bulk of their homework on battery safety. There simply is no 18650 Lithium rechargeable battery out there capable of supplying anywhere near 3.8 volts at 47.5 amps... maybe someone will some day invent a new battery that can, but... lol... just lol.

 

[Carambrda]

Just by teaching them to always keep a good safety margin
People don't vape in labs, under strictly controlled parameters... old/defective/fake batteries are common, as well as human errors
When approaching (single battery) mechs, IMO a 0.5 ohm build is enough to test the waters without any significant risk - with an average 18650
When you have mastered a basic setup then you can consider pushing it further, if you're so inclined

I don't vape in labs either, but the thing is I don't need to vape in a lab to be able to do my homework on battery safety. There's plenty of video interviews with Mooch on YouTube so all that people have to do is stop making up tame excuses.

 

[KingPin!]

I assume the troll is back posting nonsence again can't see what's written <only person on my ignore list> Can only see that the troll has appeared

If that person is you won't find a single other person in this forum who agrees with what he is saying probably preaching some nonsense about how we all speak bollocks or something... safest bet is to start with buffers in place before you learn that's why anyone with common sense gives you overstated calculations to start with until you feel competent enough to push it

of course follow your own path OP everything in a forum is opinion based mixed with facts of course no one person knows everything despite what they might say

 

[Carambrda]

Do you see what I mean when I say things like "ohms nazi" and "tame excuses"? First, they lie to you about the numbers just so they can come back later to backpedal by telling you a thing or two about "buffers", which is how they always cover up their tame asses, complete with obvious namecalling and personal attacks.

 

[Mattp169]

I am no expert on batteries
I have done some research.
short version is this'a battery is rated for so many amps of continuous draw. You can go above that. going above it can be ok. what happens when you go above it is you are heating the internal components up. If the internal components get too hot, the venting disc will pop and the battery will vent. This is not super dangerous but it is dangerous.
the exploding battery normally only happens with a short circuit which CAN happen in mech mods especially ones made out of primarily metal components. Most regulated mods use plastic battery sleds. SO itr is very important to make sure your mechs stay clean and your battery wraps stay perfect.

Now to the OP. You are seeing lots of info. Can you use a .08 coil on your battery? SURE... BUT. You hit it too long or too often and the battery will vent.
IMHO if you want to push super low ohm builds below .3 you need to use the best batteries you can that can handle the amp draw. SO go to mooch for that info. While his info is not the END ALL BE ALL of battery saftey, if you follow his advice you should be fine. Can you do more then what mooch says...sure but at your own risk and with knowledge.

Your battery is not really the best battery for super low ohm builds. You would be better off with a sony VTC5A. For you battery you should stick above .3 ohms but for very short pulls with cool down time in between it can go lower.

When I see people asking about how low they can go I tell them a higher number then more experienced people will use. I err on the side of caution.
Because I dont know the person asking. They could be a complete idiot or have a doctorate in psych. They could have some, none or a lot of understanding of how electricity works

SO long story short. There are the SAFE ANSWERS which apply to people chain vaping and doing god knows what with their mech. And then with the right knowledge and understanding you can push the battery harder - meaning drawing more amps from it- but you are taking a risk as every single battery even in the same batch is different from the next. SO you have to know what to look out for and when you need to be looking out for it to be safe when pushing a battery harder.

 

[Carambrda]

I am no expert on batteries
I have done some research.
short version is this'a battery is rated for so many amps of continuous draw. You can go above that. going above it can be ok. what happens when you go above it is you are heating the internal components up. If the internal components get too hot, the venting disc will pop and the battery will vent. This is not super dangerous but it is dangerous.
the exploding battery normally only happens with a short circuit which CAN happen in mech mods especially ones made out of primarily metal components. Most regulated mods use plastic battery sleds. SO itr is very important to make sure your mechs stay clean and your battery wraps stay perfect.

Now to the OP. You are seeing lots of info. Can you use a .08 coil on your battery? SURE... BUT. You hit it too long or too often and the battery will vent.
IMHO if you want to push super low ohm builds below .3 you need to use the best batteries you can that can handle the amp draw. SO go to mooch for that info. While his info is not the END ALL BE ALL of battery saftey, if you follow his advice you should be fine. Can you do more then what mooch says...sure but at your own risk and with knowledge.

Your battery is not really the best battery for super low ohm builds. You would be better off with a sony VTC5A. For you battery you should stick above .3 ohms but for very short pulls with cool down time in between it can go lower.

When I see people asking about how low they can go I tell them a higher number then more experienced people will use. I err on the side of caution.
Because I dont know the person asking. They could be a complete idiot or have a doctorate in psych. They could have some, none or a lot of understanding of how electricity works

SO long story short. There are the SAFE ANSWERS which apply to people chain vaping and doing god knows what with their mech. And then with the right knowledge and understanding you can push the battery harder - meaning drawing more amps from it- but you are taking a risk as every single battery even in the same batch is different from the next. SO you have to know what to look out for and when you need to be looking out for it to be safe when pushing a battery harder.

Amen!

 

[TumTumVapes]

This all has been so helpful. Got some SS wire and some vtc5a batt on the way. so corrected me if im wrong but with the new battery.
Yeah.1 ohm builds put more stress on the batt but depending battery spec, the build, ramp up times, how you fire it "pulsing and such" how often you rip it, it can be fine "as long as im not a dumb ass and sit there with my finger on the button chain vaping"
I think the SS wire Will help me get a safe build, that will hit like I want it to.

 

[TumTumVapes]

I started off vaping not wanting to know a lot about it, after my first rda that changed. Now year or so down the rd with my mech thinking I understand what i need to. So much information out there, some people online said my 22g 5wrap 3mm was a time bomb waiting to go off. Because it was about.18ohm and my battery were missleading or misslabeled. So semi panic I did the ohm law calculation as I know how it said no. I was like how i have been vaping this build for about 6+ months with no problems at all. I think I'm starting to see thst now.
Really pumped to get the SS wire from what i get it is the wire to use if you want a hard hitting tube mech. I'm also looking into getting a stacked adapter.

 

[KingPin!]

This all has been so helpful. Got some SS wire and some vtc5a batt on the way.
I think the SS wire Will help me get a safe build, that will hit like I want it to.

Yeah this SS will definitely help and if it's thinner gauge you won't need to build so low as it'll heat up much faster

Battery choice is great one of the better ones out there

 

[Carambrda]

By "pulsing", people are just referring to the simple fact we don't discharge the battery continuously when we vape. (The way that I vape, every pulse is equal to just a single hit.) Some (or a lot of) people online are ohms nazis. They tell you what to do and what not to, but they don't care to explain why. Maybe it's because they are too afraid to admit they haven't got even the faintest idea so then they just go about telling people to put on a flannel suit stuffed with pillows and keep living inside a padded room. You're not gaining any real knowledge from an ohms nazi, that I can guarantee. I follow Mooch's advice by telling people to understand there's always some risk involved with Lithium rechargeable batteries so that's precisely why it's always important to do your homework on battery safety, and do it properly, but I don't hand out randomly faked numbers because "holy fuck geez moron, buffers you dipshit fucking wiseass cunt". Mooch's entire philosophy is keeping things totally honest. Someone in this thread doesn't like me because I like honest explanations better than unicorn/pixi dust theorizations. I don't have a venting disc built into the top of my skull so... you be the final judge.

 

[KingPin!]

In the interest of completeness TumTum here is moochs bench test on the VTC5A notice on the pulse chart he is using it 5s on 30s off don't know about you here but I don't vape that precisely however does show it can be pushed well beyond its CDR but will get hotter the higher you go...

https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/f...-test-results-a-fantastic-25a-battery.746719/

But up to you he has got lots of different variables overall rates it as a 25a continuous discharge battery and the reason I and many others tend to stick to CDR over pulse is this allows for things like a stuck button or a mod misfire ...I'll also leave this second link here ...not all batteries are made equal even on the same line ...unless you have test equipment to actually monitor your batteries why unnecessarily stress it just because you can

https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/battery-pulse-ratings-are-useless.7473/

This is entirely my opinion I don't profess to be a battery expert and I don't believe many people can
Just want you or anyone reading this post member or otherwise to stay safe at the end of the day

 

[TumTumVapes]

In the interest of completeness TumTum here is moochs bench test on the VTC5A notice on the pulse chart he is using it 5s on 30s off don't know about you here but I don't vape that precisely however does show it can be pushed well beyond its CDR but will get hotter the higher you go...

https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/f...-test-results-a-fantastic-25a-battery.746719/

But up to you he has got lots of different variables overall rates it as a 25a continuous discharge battery and the reason I and many others tend to stick to CDR over pulse is this allows for things like a stuck button or a mod misfire ...I'll also leave this second link here ...not all batteries are made equal even on the same line ...unless you have test equipment to actually monitor your batteries why unnecessarily stress it just because you can

https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/battery-pulse-ratings-are-useless.7473/

This is entirely my opinion I don't profess to be a battery expert and I don't believe many people can
Just want you or anyone reading this post member or otherwise to stay safe at the end of the day

Thanks that is very useful for me. I always kinda knew the battery A was not as advertised but did not know to that extent. Good to know how the pulsing and how that works with the battery.
The builds I normally do I dont press the button for more than a second or 2. Glad im getting battery's more designed to what i need them to do though.
Thanks everyone this has been a welth of information to me