Omg... Is this Rayon? How can I tell?

Discussion in 'General Rebuildable Discussion (RTA/RBA/RDA)' started by strigamort, Jul 21, 2017.

  1. strigamort

    strigamort Bronze Contributor

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    So I was taking pictures a little while ago for a review I'm going to write soon and threw together some simple spaced kanthal coils. While I was at it I chucked some in the goon v1.5 These ohm out at .26ohms per set. Anyway, on the goon I placed the coils above the air intakes. While I was at it I put some "cotton" in that a shop owner gave me the other day. I asked him about it and he didn't seem to know what it was. The reason I asked was because it was so white and looked different from my Muji. It seems to wick differently too. Seems to resist absorption for a second, then wicks great. It occurred to me that it may be synthetic? It's in square sheets like my organic cotton, but there doesn't seem to skin's like my cotton.

    Can you tell by the pic what it might be? First pic is the soaked wick. Second pic shows how the coils are above the air intakes. This seems to be a really really good flavor build. I still need a drill so I can make some claptons, but this simple build is better than my twisted ss for sure.

    Roasting the coils in tc at 80w, 230°f.

    No popping, just crackling and a dense fog of flavor.

    [​IMG][​IMG]

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  2. AndriaD

    AndriaD Shine on, you crazy... VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    Without knowing for sure, I'd probably be able to tell by a particular "scrunching" sound that rayon makes -- it's similar to the sound/feel of walking on dry snow. also -- when wicking, I'm sure by now you've learned that with cotton, you actually need less than you might have thought at first, since cotton expands as it gets soaked -- rayon, OTOH, compresses, so you really kinda have to pack it into the coil.

    Andria
     
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  3. BKTOAD

    BKTOAD Silver Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    Hard to tell from the pic. Looks like cotton to me.

    Rayon has a different feel to it. Feels a little coarser and stiffer in my experience. Almost springy when rolling the end to put in the coil.
     
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  4. hellcatrydr

    hellcatrydr Silver Contributor

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    See if the box says Rayon. :idea:
     
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  5. strigamort

    strigamort Bronze Contributor

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    It's definitely very different than Muji. I did indeed have to re-wick because I didn't use enough the first go-round, even though I used my normal amount. I'll check on the other qualities.

    If this is cotton I'm throwing away my Muji. This seems far superior. Zero break-in (no taste) and even though I'm tc'ing there no hint of flavor difference when this goes dry. This stuff, whatever it is, is very different from my cotton and the cotton that came with some pre-built coils I got a while back.

    I'm going to photograph some dry stuff to see if that can help you guys id this stuff.

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  6. strigamort

    strigamort Bronze Contributor

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    Yeah, I don't know... Maybe not. Maybe it's just processed cotton? It definitely beads the juice much more than my organic cotton. It's much hairier than my cotton. It doesn't have "skin" layers like my cotton and it doesn't compress like my cotton. I need to lick my fingers to roll it like normal. Other than those things I don't notice a whole lot. It dries differently, like it seems to dry entirely where my cotton stays damp and formed. I have no idea what to think.

    In the pic of the squares the Muji is obviously on the left. The other pic it's on the right. The mystery cotton is on the left in the pic where I pulled it apart. [​IMG][​IMG]

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  7. krypto909

    krypto909 Gold Contributor

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    Looks like cotton to me.
     
  8. strigamort

    strigamort Bronze Contributor

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    This is what it looks like when the Hohm Wrecker calls it dry.

    [​IMG]

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  9. strigamort

    strigamort Bronze Contributor

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    Yeah, I think it must be a weird kind of cotton. Gonna have to find out from the guy that builds decks at the store, because I like this stuff.

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  10. hellcatrydr

    hellcatrydr Silver Contributor

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    How did it come to you?
    Rayon comes as a wad, and it feels a bit like waxy steel wool.
     
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  11. Johnnytraveler

    Johnnytraveler Gold Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    Please do. I'm a muji user and would like to switch to pads that doesn't give you that new cotton taste whenever I rewick.
     
  12. Brad Mitchell

    Brad Mitchell Bronze Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    I'm sure you have tried but I'm gonna say it anyways I like cotton bacon and I haven't had a break-in taste since I started using it
     
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  13. strigamort

    strigamort Bronze Contributor

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    Hellcat, a shop owner gave me and my friend a stack of pads. After looking at pics of beauty shop rayon it's not that. It comes just like I showed in the pic.

    Johnny, most definitely. Obviously I'm just trying this stuff out, but after a couple of builds and a tank and several re-drips I can say that I have high hopes. I prefer the way my Muji rolls, but so far I like everything about the other stuff more. I'm not getting any burning whatsoever, and it tastes perfect immediately.

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  14. Johnnytraveler

    Johnnytraveler Gold Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    I use both. I use pads whenever I help a noob out. I teach the Scottish strech & roll method. Then using a ruler I show them how wide a strip to cut so they get the right size wick. With cb, it's all about the feel. Which is hard to teach.
     
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  15. strigamort

    strigamort Bronze Contributor

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    So I have been vaping this non-stop tonight. You know how you get a new atty, or a great build, and it makes even juice you don't like all of a sudden interesting? That's what I'm experiencing with this cotton. I purposely raised the value on my mod to get a dry hit just to see. It's bad, but I swear it doesn't seem AS bad. Watch, I'm probably going to find out this is a tampon, but if so I'm raiding my girlfriends bathroom!

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  16. Bigbob2322

    Bigbob2322 Gold Contributor Member For 1 Year ECF Refugee

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    If there is no expansion of this material after being soaked and vaped for a while and there is shrinkage instead then it's a form of Rayon. All the characteristics you describe says Rayon. Rayon is all I use and this sure sounds like Rayon. Believe it or not Tampon use for wick works great.
     
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  17. strigamort

    strigamort Bronze Contributor

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    Cool, I'm learning. :)

    So I did some poking around, and I see that you can buy Rayon in the form of makeup removal pads like KGD and Muji. My feeling is that this may be synthetic.

    Back when I first started working with leather I was using scraps for practice. The two main kinds of tanning are chromium and vegetable tanned. There's more than one way to tell what you have, but I used a burning technique. If the ashes smeared green-ish it probably meant that the leather is chromium.

    Does rayon "cotton" burn differently from organic cotton? I can do a burn test to find out if so.

    This may very well be processed cotton, I have no idea. Regardless it's better than MY Muji. Supposing it's different from Muji, why would anyone use something else? Supposing it was rayon (I really don't care, it IS better than what I've got), why would someone not always use whatever material this is over Muji?

    Not sure I'm phrasing this how I want. :/





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  18. strigamort

    strigamort Bronze Contributor

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    First pic is of the wick about 2/3rds through a saturated wick. [​IMG]

    Second pic is where my mod oscillates and throttles down to prevent dry hits. The wick is much whiter than usual. Muji retains the brown color from the juice.

    [​IMG]

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  19. fq06

    fq06 Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    Yes, they do burn differently, saw it here many moons ago, forgot where it is in the usual incredibly long pbusardo video.
    Edit: Start @ 20 min

     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2017
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  20. strigamort

    strigamort Bronze Contributor

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    Awesome. I fell asleep last night watching that exact video. I missed the burning part. Thanks for the link, I'll watch it again. :)

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  21. fq06

    fq06 Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    Lol, haven't vaped a tampon but yeah, it does sound like rayon or at least a cotton rayon hybrid.
     
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  22. xpen

    xpen Bronze Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    Yes rayon burns completely to ashes, with a smell like burned paper; noticeably different from cotton.
    Also it handles differently from cotton, it has a 'crunchy' feeling to it as @Andria said.
    Further difference is in the wicking: rayon doesn't expand like cotton when wet, actually it does shrink some - that's why you need to pack it tight in the coil, otherwise in a few hours it won't be fully in contact with the coil and some hot spots will surface.
    From the pics of your wicks it would look like rayon to me (or some sort of combed cotton), only I've never heard of rayon pads...
     
  23. strigamort

    strigamort Bronze Contributor

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    Burn tests start right at 20min. So I think I'll be able to rule out rayon by burning. It looks like it leaves a much larger ash than cotton, which appears to disintegrate. I don't believe there's any chance that this is hemp, so that part of the test is irrelevant.

    I'll post my findings soon.

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  24. strigamort

    strigamort Bronze Contributor

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    Hmm it disentegrated. I have no idea what to think. [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

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  25. strigamort

    strigamort Bronze Contributor

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    Xpen, just for reference. [​IMG]

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  26. strigamort

    strigamort Bronze Contributor

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    Wow, this is interesting. This company on Alibaba makes and packages their cotton pads. They have a few examples of the different packaging they have done...

    Interesting eh?
    [​IMG][​IMG]

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  27. Huckleberried

    Huckleberried Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    I use Rayon, and my first impression of your initial photo was cotton. Doesn't mean I'm right :D

    Sally's Beauty Supply sells it in a box of 500ft for like $14, though some have reported finding smaller packages. Mine only sells the monster size, and it's a really long rope. You can get some repackaged by people on ebay, too. Once I tried rayon, I never went back to cotton.
     
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  28. Angrygod50

    Angrygod50 Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    + 1 Rayon user here. If you ever got a dry hit on cotton try it with rayon and when your done gagging you'll know how to tell the difference. But I don't recommend it. Glad I vape TC now...:teehee:
     
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  29. Huckleberried

    Huckleberried Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    This is from post #6, opened it in a new tab and blew it up some. With the rayon I have, I've never seen these little balled up pieces, which is why I think it's cotton, but also you mentioned a blend. I've never seen a cotton/rayon blend for vape wicking, so that's a possibility, too I guess.

    upload_2017-7-22_20-37-18.png
     
  30. downInTn

    downInTn Bronze Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    That's exactly what I was thinking. rayon doesn't ball up like that.
     
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  31. strigamort

    strigamort Bronze Contributor

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    That was what made me doubt it as well. :) Love the forensic work! Reminds me of UFO's for some reason.

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  32. strigamort

    strigamort Bronze Contributor

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    Yeah, I've seen the Sally's box. I have a few gazillion pads of Muji to go through then I'll try it!

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  33. Huckleberried

    Huckleberried Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    LOL, I think I see what you mean :teehee:
     
  34. xpen

    xpen Bronze Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    You're right, those only happen with cotton. Rayon is man made, the fibers can't have any knots.
     
  35. Alter

    Alter Bronze Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    My best guess is to vape on it for a while then rinse and take the wicking out of the coil and have a look at it. The cotton will be super dark, burnt looking and crusties in the fibers cause the juice flows inside the cotton fiber and eventually plugs up inside and just before the coil thus creating drier and drier hits until no more flow and burnt cotton hit. The rayon inside and infront of the coil should be a light brown color and rinse almost clean(unless you burnt the rayon and you'll know) cause the juice flows outside the fiber and much less prone to plugging up so to why the rayon compresses on itself that isn't shrinking as-per-say so it has to be super tight in the coil. There is a European company( I think French) that sold rayon pads for vaping that went out of business..I can't remember the name.
     
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  36. Bigbob2322

    Bigbob2322 Gold Contributor Member For 1 Year ECF Refugee

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    In the video Phil did not thin the tails of the Rayon and if he did he would have seen a different result, the thinner the tails with Rayon the better it works.Rayon to me is the cleanest fastest wicking material for vaping to date.
     
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  37. strigamort

    strigamort Bronze Contributor

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    After many drips. My juice is colored pink, one is clear and one is colored yellow. Not sure if you can tell anything from the pic. Looking at the fibers (I didn't want to say balls) it's gotta be cotton, just different from what I normally use. Really different. [​IMG]

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  38. Robert B

    Robert B Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    I think what you got there is Shiseido japanese cotton. Been using it for a few years. Was $6.50 for this bundle at Nordstroms online.

    [​IMG]
     
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  39. AndriaD

    AndriaD Shine on, you crazy... VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    Excellent stuff! It's been my ONLY wick material for a couple years too.... and still have over 3/4 of the pkg left! :)

    Andria
     
  40. 32bitlord

    32bitlord TPD Compliant VU Donator Bronze Contributor ECF Refugee

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    Wow that's a lot of wicks!


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  41. AndriaD

    AndriaD Shine on, you crazy... VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    I thought of this when I first started reading this thread, but didn't he say that it didn't seem to have a "surface layer"...? And Shiseido does have that, on each side, though it doesn 't seem to affect the wicking ability at all; I've gotten it to a fine art, just how narrow a piece to cut, which I then pull apart, as close to 50/50 as I can make it, so each wick has one of those surface layers.

    The best thing about it to me is that the size of the Shiseido pads is perfect for the very long wicks I need in my Achilles; I only cut off maybe a half inch, once the wick is thru the coil, the little bit that's twisted tightly that started the wick thru the coil, and just "neatening" the edge on the other end. Best wick material I've ever used; the flavor comes thru very bold and saturated (also thx to the Achilles!), and the break-in time is hardly noticeable -- I keep the wattage low at first, and get maybe 2-3 hits that taste a bit cottony, and then I can start turning it up, and not tasting anymore cotton.

    Andria
     
  42. Robert B

    Robert B Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    I think it's about the cleanest tasting cotton I've ever tried. And that includes cotton bacon. I peel off the thin surface layer on each side, wick it, soak it, fire it a few times, and it's ready to go
     
  43. 32bitlord

    32bitlord TPD Compliant VU Donator Bronze Contributor ECF Refugee

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    Interesting. I currently use cotton bacon and I absolutely love it however, I definitely prefer the form factor of pads though. I may have to give this stuff a try. Is it completely untreated / unbleached?


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  44. Robert B

    Robert B Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    No idea, and don't really care. Probably no more or less than cotton bacon. Looks like it's up to $10 now. Still not bad for a 5+ year supply.
     
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  45. 32bitlord

    32bitlord TPD Compliant VU Donator Bronze Contributor ECF Refugee

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    Yea I'd say you won't need to buy more for a while. I'm definitely gonna check this stuff out. At this price it's a steal


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  46. DX9

    DX9 Bronze Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    Yeah I bought a bag here in Canada about 6 months ago. Haven't used a quarter of the bag yet. Cost in Canada was $10.

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  47. fq06

    fq06 Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    A few years ago i noticed my wife had Shiseido and after I ran through a few pads of that (20... shhhh) I got some koh gen do and I immediately thought the Shiseido tasted a little better. KGD is goood but I think Shiseido is a hair better.

    Almost out of the KGD so next order will be a bag of Shiseido :vapemail:
     
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  48. AndriaD

    AndriaD Shine on, you crazy... VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    As Robert B said.. don't know, don't care, because it vapes WONDERFULLY. I suspct it might be bleached, it's pure white with no specks... but peroxide bleaching ain't gonna kill ya, I'm sure they rinse it well. :giggle: The pure white is great because it's easier to tell when you need to rewick.

    Andria
     
  49. AndriaD

    AndriaD Shine on, you crazy... VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    I noticed that shiseido breaks in faster [ETA: than KGD], in a side by side trial.

    Andria
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2017
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  50. inspects

    inspects Squonkamaniac Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    No idea, but if you haven't tried rayon, give it a shot, you may like it.
     
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