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Pink Lemonade (Simple ADV)

PatheticMr.

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Haven't posted here in quite some time. Thought I'd share this one as I've had so many great recipes and so much help in the past from this forum - particularly when I asked for help creating that 'fizzy' type sensation. Well here it is, this is what I wanted - thanks for all the help!

Lemonade (Flavorah): 6%
Raspberry (INW): 1%


I made this after tasting a store bought liquid. It was cheap, from a very small company. Overall it was delicious but had wayyy too much Sucralose - I hate Sucralose!

The two flavours used here are by far my favourite two of my go-to flavours- and I use them both in the majority of my recipes. I knew immediately after my first vape of that store bought stuff exactly what was in it - and I'm still confused as to why I never just put these two alone together before now.

This is one to one to that liquid, minus the sweetner (add some if you wish).

I have another Pink Lemonade posted here that uses these two along with several other flavours. This is what I was going for all along, and I realise now that the other flavours only added unnecessary notes to the juice. It's a nice liquid, but this is better. Amazing what you can do with just two flavours!

As it is, it's sweet, very flavourful and tastes exactly like pink lemonade.

It is definitely an all day vape. I hope someone enjoys it as much as i do!

Here is a link to the post on e-liquid recipes for convenience: http://e-liquid-recipes.com/recipe/1216706/Pink+Lemonade+%28Simple+ADV%29

Edit: This is absolutely a shake & vape. It will get better over the first couple of days, but not by much.
 
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Smoky Blue

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Haven't posted here in quite some time. Thought I'd share this one as I've had so many great recipes and so much help in the past from this forum - particularly when I asked for help creating that 'fizzy' type sensation. Well here it is, this is what I wanted - thanks for all the help!

Lemonade (Flavorah): 6%
Raspberry (INW): 1%


I made this after tasting a store bought liquid. It was cheap, from a very small company. Overall it was delicious but had wayyy too much Sucralose - I hate Sucralose!

The two flavours used here are by far my favourite two of my go-to flavours- and I use them both in the majority of my recipes. I knew immediately after my first vape of that store bought stuff exactly what was in it - and I'm still confused as to why I never just put these two alone together before now.

This is one to one to that liquid, minus the sweetner (add some if you wish).

I have another Pink Lemonade posted here that uses these two along with several other flavours. This is what I was going for all along, and I realise now that the other flavours only added unnecessary notes to the juice. It's a nice liquid, but this is better. Amazing what you can do with just two flavours!

As it is, it's sweet, very flavourful and tastes exactly like pink lemonade.

It is definitely an all day vape. I hope someone enjoys it as much as i do!

Here is a link to the post on e-liquid recipes for convenience: http://e-liquid-recipes.com/recipe/1216706/Pink+Lemonade+%28Simple+ADV%29

Edit: This is absolutely a shake & vape. It will get better over the first couple of days, but not by much.

the reason you can shake and vape this is due to the high amount you are using..
If you toned it down... to like .24grams in a 30ml bottle (FLV lemonade) it will not be muting out over time..
you are turning flv into zombie flavors by going over 1-1.5% total flavor

rule of thumb for them is 1ml flavors a 30ml, 20-25ml flavors a litter..
 

PatheticMr.

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the reason you can shake and vape this is due to the high amount you are using..
If you toned it down... to like .24grams in a 30ml bottle (FLV lemonade) it will not be muting out over time..
you are turning flv into zombie flavors by going over 1-1.5% total flavor

rule of thumb for them is 1ml flavors a 30ml, 20-25ml flavors a litter..

That's not been my experience with FLV Lemonade. I agree with that with FLV it is generally best to start low. However, below 3% lemonade does nothing for me.

At 6% it doesn't mute.. the lemon becomes sharper after few weeks rather than muting. For me, 6% is perfect for this flavour.

FLV Lime, on the other hand, is awful over 1% and overpowers anything else I've tried it with over 0.5 - best is at 0.25 - 0.4 (for me).

I really like FLV atm... best % is a real mixed bag with these guys.
 

Smoky Blue

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Been messing with them for a very long time.

I am the one that coined "Frankenstien" flavors. Why? because if you push them too far.. ie: 8% Vanilla Custard vs 6 bottles drops (.12grams) in a 10ml bottle.. You will get the same taste. What happens is when you go over the flavor "threshold" it will mute (IE, why it "does nothing for you" from .05%- 3%) and come "back to life". It also produces what I call flavor waste.. meaning if I can get the same taste using a tiny bit.. and then I on purpose use it higher and get the same taste.. I am over using the flavor... wasting it. Maybe I did not explain it like this last night, was tired.. and only trying to help out here.. there is a big difference between 6-8 bottle drops (.12-.16grams) vs 6% of any given flavor. There are some flavors on FLV and TSFS that you really should not use more than 2 drops (.04grams) in a 120ml.. However, like you said, this works for you..
 

PatheticMr.

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Been messing with them for a very long time.

I am the one that coined "Frankenstien" flavors. Why? because if you push them too far.. ie: 8% Vanilla Custard vs 6 bottles drops (.12grams) in a 10ml bottle.. You will get the same taste. What happens is when you go over the flavor "threshold" it will mute (IE, why it "does nothing for you" from .05%- 3%) and come "back to life". It also produces what I call flavor waste.. meaning if I can get the same taste using a tiny bit.. and then I on purpose use it higher and get the same taste.. I am over using the flavor... wasting it. Maybe I did not explain it like this last night, was tired.. and only trying to help out here.. there is a big difference between 6-8 bottle drops (.12-.16grams) vs 6% of any given flavor. There are some flavors on FLV and TSFS that you really should not use more than 2 drops (.04grams) in a 120ml.. However, like you said, this works for you..

I understand what you are saying & I agree for the most part. However, FLV Lemonade at less than 3% is not enough. Best range for this flavour is 3-6%. I would say this is down to my own taste, but it is commonly used at these percentages so I am pretty confident in saying FLV Lemonade is weak compared to most of their flavours.
 

Smoky Blue

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I understand what you are saying & I agree for the most part. However, FLV Lemonade at less than 3% is not enough. Best range for this flavour is 3-6%. I would say this is down to my own taste, but it is commonly used at these percentages so I am pretty confident in saying FLV Lemonade is weak compared to most of their flavours.

Actually... 95% of the recipes I see out there for flv, commonly use incorrect amounts..
I still do not follow what the crowd says is good.. and based on the time I have in on both FLV's line, and mine..
I know these flavors inside and out. but again.. if this works for you.. keep it like it is.

Less is more, if you doubt it.. try it.. all I am saying.
 

PatheticMr.

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Actually... 95% of the recipes I see out there for flv, commonly use incorrect amounts..
I still do not follow what the crowd says is good.. and based on the time I have in on both FLV's line, and mine..
I know these flavors inside and out. but again.. if this works for you.. keep it like it is.

Less is more, if you doubt it.. try it.. all I am saying.

There is no 'incorrect' amount of any flavour. Sure, if someone is using 40% then they are likely to have pretty nasty tasting juice by most people's taste. In that case it is probably worth advising those people that they are using far more than what is considered 'normal' and that they very likely would benefit from working within a smaller margin. I've used 6% here, which is a totally sensitible and a commonly enjoyed ratio for this flavour.

I'm very much aware of the 'less is more' approach and it works very well for me for many flavours. This has become part of my testing process when I try new flavours (which is a rare occurance these days) - I find the general high and low ratios and test within those.

The thing is.. you've kind of commented here and said that my juice will taste better if I reduce one of the only 2 flavours from 6% to 1 - 1.5%. You've said that flavours have a ceiling effect and that I am getting muted flavour because I've used incorrect amounts of flavour. You also said it's a shake and vape because I've overflavoured.

What I'm trying to say is that muted flavour has not been an issue, that FLV Lemonade works great at 6% and that using this flavour at low % doesn't do the trick for me. The amount of flavouring I'm using is not the reason it's a shake and vape - the reason for this is simply that these two flavours change very little with a steep. Some people won't taste a difference between day one and day 30.

These are flavours I use a hell of a lot - I know them very well. At the end of the day, using 1% of FLV Lemonade instead of the 6% I've used would result in an entirely different tasting juice... entirely different.

I posted because I thought it was delicious as it is and wanted to share it with others (often beginners) who are looking for something simple, easy and nice. I just feel like you've been a bit keen to impose your own ideas onto this. Please do vary the ratios, do your own thing with it, let us all know your own results so we can all learn more - thats why we DIY. But I'm not doing it wrong, the ratios aren't 'incorrect'.

Finally, from my own experience, don't let the less is more approach dominate your whole thinking with this stuff. It really helps at times, but these flavours vary dramatically based on the ratios used. Sometimes, more is actually more.

I hope I haven't come across as offensive. It's not my intention. As I said, I just think you've been a bit keen to impose your own approach to this.. I'd be interested to hear your own results, but tbh, I don't think you've even tried this recipe.
 

Smoky Blue

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There is no 'incorrect' amount of any flavour. Sure, if someone is using 40% then they are likely to have pretty nasty tasting juice by most people's taste. In that case it is probably worth advising those people that they are using far more than what is considered 'normal' and that they very likely would benefit from working within a smaller margin. I've used 6% here, which is a totally sensitible and a commonly enjoyed ratio for this flavour.

I'm very much aware of the 'less is more' approach and it works very well for me for many flavours. This has become part of my testing process when I try new flavours (which is a rare occurance these days) - I find the general high and low ratios and test within those.

The thing is.. you've kind of commented here and said that my juice will taste better if I reduce one of the only 2 flavours from 6% to 1 - 1.5%. You've said that flavours have a ceiling effect and that I am getting muted flavour because I've used incorrect amounts of flavour. You also said it's a shake and vape because I've overflavoured.

Yes, however, I did not say to use 1.5%, I didn't really suggest any amount, except that I use drops. My drops each, come to .02g or .02ml.
If I was to do this flavor, I wouldnt pair it with ina.. I would find something in the flv line.. (just me and my tastes) and I would do it like this:

30ml
12 drops .24 grams .24ml lemonade
3 drops .06 grams .06ml raspberry flv

take it in your form:
30ml
6% or 1.8ml lemonade
1% .3ml raspberry

rather big difference.

What I'm trying to say is that muted flavour has not been an issue, that FLV Lemonade works great at 6% and that using this flavour at low % doesn't do the trick for me. The amount of flavouring I'm using is not the reason it's a shake and vape - the reason for this is simply that these two flavours change very little with a steep. Some people won't taste a difference between day one and day 30.

Small secret with ultra flavors, by day 3, they "lock" in and pretty much do not change at all. Hence, no long steep time.
Try this on the custard, or any of the creams.. get freaky and add in some milk chocolate and caramel like:

30ml
12 drops .24 grams .24ml Cream
6 drops .12 grams .12ml Milk Chocolate
3 drops .06 grams .06ml Butterscotch
3 drops .06 grams .06ml Caramel

you will find you can taste them at these amounts, the steep time is zilch... and they wont fade, or become too sharp..

These are flavours I use a hell of a lot - I know them very well. At the end of the day, using 1% of FLV Lemonade instead of the 6% I've used would result in an entirely different tasting juice... entirely different.

I posted because I thought it was delicious as it is and wanted to share it with others (often beginners) who are looking for something simple, easy and nice. I just feel like you've been a bit keen to impose your own ideas onto this. Please do vary the ratios, do your own thing with it, let us all know your own results so we can all learn more - thats why we DIY. But I'm not doing it wrong, the ratios aren't 'incorrect'.

Finally, from my own experience, don't let the less is more approach dominate your whole thinking with this stuff. It really helps at times, but these flavours vary dramatically based on the ratios used. Sometimes, more is actually more.

I hope I haven't come across as offensive. It's not my intention. As I said, I just think you've been a bit keen to impose your own approach to this.. I'd be interested to hear your own results, but tbh, I don't think you've even tried this recipe.

I have been using ultra flavors for a very long time, flv and my lines are the newest out, there are thousands and thousands of flavor companies out there, some are standards, some are ultras. I only made a suggestion here, to help out.. I happen to work for yet another lab, and I do help with flavor creation, not making ejuice, but the actual flavors themselves. I do know a lot about these flavors.

I do understand why you posted, to share a recipe.. and that your recipe is good for you. I also know sometimes it is good to have a different view and outlook on a recipe too.. just a suggestion, and you do not have to take mine any which way... but if you do try it.. even if you dont get anything out of it.. at least you can laugh about this, there are always 2 sides to a juice :)
 
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PatheticMr.

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Yes, however, I did not say to use 1.5%, I didn't really suggest any amount, except that I use drops. My drops each, come to .02g or .02ml.
If I was to do this flavor, I wouldnt pair it with ina.. I would find something in the flv line.. (just me and my tastes) and I would do it like this:

30ml
12 drops .24 grams .24ml lemonade
3 drops .06 grams .06ml raspberry flv

take it in your form:
30ml
6% or 1.8ml lemonade
1% .3ml raspberry

rather big difference.



Small secret with ultra flavors, by day 3, they "lock" in and pretty much do not change at all. Hence, no long steep time.
Try this on the custard, or any of the creams.. get freaky and add in some milk chocolate and caramel like:

30ml
12 drops .24 grams .24ml Cream
6 drops .12 grams .12ml Milk Chocolate
3 drops .06 grams .06ml Butterscotch
3 drops .06 grams .06ml Caramel

you will find you can taste them at these amounts, the steep time is zilch... and they wont fade, or become too sharp..



I have been using ultra flavors for a very long time, flv and my lines are the newest out, there are thousands and thousands of flavor companies out there, some are standards, some are ultras. I only made a suggestion here, to help out.. I happen to work for yet another lab, and I do help with flavor creation, not making ejuice, but the actual flavors themselves. I do know a lot about these flavors.

I do understand why you posted, to share a recipe.. and that your recipe is good for you. I also know sometimes it is good to have a different view and outlook on a recipe too.. just a suggestion, and you do not have to take mine any which way... but if you do try it.. even if you dont get anything out of it.. at least you can laugh about this, there are always 2 sides to a juice :)

By 'ultra' flavours, I assume you mean highly concentrated? If so, I'm finding it hard to take your 'locked in' hypothesis seriously. There are a huge number of factors thay contribute to how long a flavour needs to develop. Yes, the concentration is one of those factors but I'm certain that there is no magic 3 day 'lock' where flavours stop developing due to being highly concentrated. I don't pretend to know tge chemistry or have any real industry knowledge but my understanding is that this 3 day thing has no basis in reality. If you provide some evidence for this then my mind is open but...

Honestly, I can't understand why you seem to be compulsively throwing all of these 'secrets' and 'pro tips' at me - many I am finding hard to take seriously and most not relating at all to the recipe that I posted.

I've addressed many of these already but to pick one more from your most recent post:

You didn't say to reduce FLV Lemonade to 1.5%. You did however, say that over this amount is too much. As I said above, 6% works well here for what I was going for. If you had tried the recipe and/or adjusted some of the ratios and were giving some feedback or sharing your experience then I would inclined to take notice. However, all you seem to be doing is telling me what I should have done to a recipe you have not tried. As I said, your version would taste like a completely different juice... which is fine, I just don't understand why you keep trying to push your own version in here.

Again, sorry to be sounding like a bit of a prick... I'm just a bit baffled as to why you keep posting this stuff on this recipe. I really would love to hear feedback, tips and variations... but this feels like it is derailing into some kind of pro-tip thread without any basis in reality and you haven't even tried the recipe!
 

Smoky Blue

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By 'ultra' flavours, I assume you mean highly concentrated? If so, I'm finding it hard to take your 'locked in' hypothesis seriously. There are a huge number of factors thay contribute to how long a flavour needs to develop. Yes, the concentration is one of those factors but I'm certain that there is no magic 3 day 'lock' where flavours stop developing due to being highly concentrated. I don't pretend to know tge chemistry or have any real industry knowledge but my understanding is that this 3 day thing has no basis in reality. If you provide some evidence for this then my mind is open but...

Honestly, I can't understand why you seem to be compulsively throwing all of these 'secrets' and 'pro tips' at me - many I am finding hard to take seriously and most not relating at all to the recipe that I posted.

I've addressed many of these already but to pick one more from your most recent post:

You didn't say to reduce FLV Lemonade to 1.5%. You did however, say that over this amount is too much. As I said above, 6% works well here for what I was going for. If you had tried the recipe and/or adjusted some of the ratios and were giving some feedback or sharing your experience then I would inclined to take notice. However, all you seem to be doing is telling me what I should have done to a recipe you have not tried. As I said, your version would taste like a completely different juice... which is fine, I just don't understand why you keep trying to push your own version in here.

Again, sorry to be sounding like a bit of a prick... I'm just a bit baffled as to why you keep posting this stuff on this recipe. I really would love to hear feedback, tips and variations... but this feels like it is derailing into some kind of pro-tip thread without any basis in reality and you haven't even tried the recipe!


Ok here I go once again.
For me:
6% is too much...
3% is too much
1.5% is too much

I gave open honest feed back. Do I have to try this at 6% when I know already, I do not like it at 6%, no.
That is my freedom of diy mixing.
I gave my input on how I I have done mine, many times.

By now you will have had the time to mix it my way and prove to yourself if you like it at my levels.
You should be able to prove or disprove every single thing I have said, had you have been really mixing with these flavors (flv) for a while.
I do not have to prove anything to anyone.. Take my advise or do not..

It is always good to do solo testing.. from the lowest to the highest.. to find YOUR own spot.
YOU are basing this at "what elr" says is "good". and... all that is, is subjective.
I can say the color red is the best color and have 100 people that agree, but if you do not think so.. and have a handful of people that think otherwise. Does it change my thoughts on how I think of red? So chances are, you will keep thinking your thoughts and I will be doing the same.

You posted the recipe for feed back, and I gave it to you.
You were not open to my ways,either. Otherwise, this convo would not still be going on with me having to explain this over and over.

It is what it is.. I do have others like me, that will not mix these flavors by volume, they prefer to keep the amounts low, and use weight. Yes, they are indeed ultra concentrated flavors. The highest concentrated flavors you can legally purchase, without being a certified lab. If you like to waste your flavoring, and spend more money using higher amounts, go for it.. I will not stop you, but encourage you to do so.
You make the labs more money doing it this way.

All I said, and will keep saying, is to think on this. Examine your mixing methods. Think outside the box. Get creative and explore. Learn on your own, without depending on what everyone else thinks is good. This is what is wrong with the diy scene for quiet a few years now.
 

PatheticMr.

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Ok here I go once again.
For me:
6% is too much...
3% is too much
1.5% is too much

I gave open honest feed back. Do I have to try this at 6% when I know already, I do not like it at 6%, no.
That is my freedom of diy mixing.
I gave my input on how I I have done mine, many times.

By now you will have had the time to mix it my way and prove to yourself if you like it at my levels.
You should be able to prove or disprove every single thing I have said, had you have been really mixing with these flavors (flv) for a while.
I do not have to prove anything to anyone.. Take my advise or do not..

It is always good to do solo testing.. from the lowest to the highest.. to find YOUR own spot.
YOU are basing this at "what elr" says is "good". and... all that is, is subjective.
I can say the color red is the best color and have 100 people that agree, but if you do not think so.. and have a handful of people that think otherwise. Does it change my thoughts on how I think of red? So chances are, you will keep thinking your thoughts and I will be doing the same.

You posted the recipe for feed back, and I gave it to you.
You were not open to my ways,either. Otherwise, this convo would not still be going on with me having to explain this over and over.

It is what it is.. I do have others like me, that will not mix these flavors by volume, they prefer to keep the amounts low, and use weight. Yes, they are indeed ultra concentrated flavors. The highest concentrated flavors you can legally purchase, without being a certified lab. If you like to waste your flavoring, and spend more money using higher amounts, go for it.. I will not stop you, but encourage you to do so.
You make the labs more money doing it this way.

All I said, and will keep saying, is to think on this. Examine your mixing methods. Think outside the box. Get creative and explore. Learn on your own, without depending on what everyone else thinks is good. This is what is wrong with the diy scene for quiet a few years now.

As I've said, I have tried this flavour at a variety of ratios. I don't just follow what ELR says, but it's a damn helpful resource.

I mix by weight these days too... not sure what that has to do with this whole conversation though?

Regardless, this is getting boring. I just think you want to prove to people what an e liquid guru you are... and I think you make up terms that you have 'coined' and random rules that only you seem to have any knowledge of.

I value feedback and discussion, I make eliquid and comment on here simply because I enjoy it. There is absolutely nothing 'wrong' with the DIY scene. The vast majority are having fun and sharing, helping others and generally show a lot of respect. I think you're just too good for the rest of us.... sorry I can't get on board with your 'methods', magical though they sound. I'll just discuss with the other problem majority from now on.
 

RonJS

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Member For 5 Years
the reason you can shake and vape this is due to the high amount you are using..
If you toned it down... to like .24grams in a 30ml bottle (FLV lemonade) it will not be muting out over time..
you are turning flv into zombie flavors by going over 1-1.5% total flavor

Just finished mixing 30mls single flavor FLV Lemonade as suggested. Or, .24 grams (.8%) 50/50 ED 18mg VT Premium.

I will will wait 3-4 days and be back.

I got the FLV Lemonade at the end of last July. I mixed some up then at 3% (the bottom of Flavorah's Suggested Use Rate http://www.flavorah.com/safety/ ) which I found weak. I continued to up the flavor amount by .5% four times and while the flavor amount increased, I was still not satisfied. I finally upped it to 6.8% and gave up on it until today. At all my tested FLV levels I much preferred a single flavor mix of either FA Lemon Sicily or INW Lemon. (with or without a touch of Koolada)

I'm hoping the .8% is an improvement. I have nothing to lose...:)
If it doesn't work for me, I'll probably up the FLV level to 6% and heck; I've got a bunch of INW Raspberry :D

Ron
---
"Every strike brings me closer to the next home run."- Babe Ruth
 

PatheticMr.

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Just finished mixing 30mls single flavor FLV Lemonade as suggested. Or, .24 grams (.8%) 50/50 ED 18mg VT Premium.

I will will wait 3-4 days and be back.

I got the FLV Lemonade at the end of last July. I mixed some up then at 3% (the bottom of Flavorah's Suggested Use Rate http://www.flavorah.com/safety/ ) which I found weak. I continued to up the flavor amount by .5% four times and while the flavor amount increased, I was still not satisfied. I finally upped it to 6.8% and gave up on it until today. At all my tested FLV levels I much preferred a single flavor mix of either FA Lemon Sicily or INW Lemon. (with or without a touch of Koolada)

I'm hoping the .8% is an improvement. I have nothing to lose...:)
If it doesn't work for me, I'll probably up the FLV level to 6% and heck; I've got a bunch of INW Raspberry :D

Ron
---
"Every strike brings me closer to the next home run."- Babe Ruth
I've not had much success with FLV Lemonade as a standalone.

I hope it works out for you. If not, I hope the addition of the excellent INW Raspberry brings it back to life for you!
 
One of the single most valuable skills I've learned in the last 4+ years of mixing has been to develop a thicker skin so that I can take criticism on what I've mixed, from both experienced and inexperienced mixers, and I often find valuable insight from any and all criticism whether I agree with it or not. Sometimes I just have to agree to disagree but by remaining open I don't close myself off from anything that might potentially improve my results.

As another mixer who has spent a fair amount of time mixing with many different companies flavorings I would have to agree that for my own tastes 6% of any flavoring by Flavorah is way too much... Let alone any of their citrus which are definitely some of their stronger flavorings IMO. I know that they recommend 2-5% on most but I rarely ever reach 2% and find them more full flavored at lower percentages. The nature of muting that happens with higher flavor percentages is a muddling of complexities where you'll lose some of the notes as they're overpowered by the strongest notes.

I get that you like this recipe right where it is but I think Smoky was just trying to offer a perspective from someone with a lot of knowledge about the flavorings themselves. One of the biggest problems with our society as a whole is we are so quick to become defensive and go on the attack ourselves when we decide, whether or not it's true, that we've been personally attacked...I see it happen far too often and ultimately it prevents us all from helping one another more.
 

PatheticMr.

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One of the single most valuable skills I've learned in the last 4+ years of mixing has been to develop a thicker skin so that I can take criticism on what I've mixed, from both experienced and inexperienced mixers, and I often find valuable insight from any and all criticism whether I agree with it or not. Sometimes I just have to agree to disagree but by remaining open I don't close myself off from anything that might potentially improve my results.

As another mixer who has spent a fair amount of time mixing with many different companies flavorings I would have to agree that for my own tastes 6% of any flavoring by Flavorah is way too much... Let alone any of their citrus which are definitely some of their stronger flavorings IMO. I know that they recommend 2-5% on most but I rarely ever reach 2% and find them more full flavored at lower percentages. The nature of muting that happens with higher flavor percentages is a muddling of complexities where you'll lose some of the notes as they're overpowered by the strongest notes.

I get that you like this recipe right where it is but I think Smoky was just trying to offer a perspective from someone with a lot of knowledge about the flavorings themselves. One of the biggest problems with our society as a whole is we are so quick to become defensive and go on the attack ourselves when we decide, whether or not it's true, that we've been personally attacked...I see it happen far too often and ultimately it prevents us all from helping one another more.

It's really not that I am not open to criticism. Take a look at any of the discussions I've had here over the years and I think that would be apparent.

I'm not offended by what Smoky has said.. not at all. In fact, it has become clear that Smoky has not tried the recipe. And there the problem starts...

Essentially, my problem here is simply that my bullshit detector has been spinning out of control. 3 day steep locks? Shake and vape because I've overflavoured? "I coined the term...". Highly concentrated flavours don't need to steep? If she had given me any other source to support any of this other than because she said it then I would have been inclined to listen. But nope, all you're gonna get is "I work in a lab" or "I've been mixing 'ultra' flavours for years". It's all bullshit folks and its bad for you!

I must apologise.. usually I would have just laughed it off and ignored. But this one has just bugged me.

What if I was new to mixing? As it happens, I too have been at it for a few years now. I like to think I've been a small part of helping to build the knowledge (a minutely small part) and a small part in helping others develop. One thing that I think most of us have cottoned on to is that there is a lot of misinformation out there that has no basis in logic or reality. Often this is forced on people by egotistical 'pros' who believe that they are some kind of guru. I'm afraid that's all I've seen here and I've called it out. Again, usually I would have just left it, sorry for causing a scene!

You mentioned a thicker skin... well, like you, I have also learned over the years that I like what I like and others may not. The main reason i posted this recipe was not actually for feedback... though it is always very welcome. I have been working on 'fizzy' lemonade type recipes for a long time - I had some great discussions aboit how to achieve this and VU, as always, provided me with an amazing community that helped me achieve what I was going for. The post was more to say "thanks, this is what I was going for all along!" Some people will hate it, others will like it. That's fine and exactly what I expected. Smoky... hasn't even tried it and somehow knows everything about it and is the guru master of FLV so doesn't need to.

Here is how constructive feedback would have gone:

Smoky: I usually find with FLV that going over 1-1.5% mutes the flavours.

Me: That has not been my experience with Lemonade. I agree with you that most FLV should stay low, but I like Lemonade at 6 and find I have no problem with muting.

Smokey: great... glad it works for you!

Or Interesting how we all experience these flavours differently. If you do get ant muting problems.. try lower % - may help!


To me, this is constructive discussion/feedback. I just feel like Smoky was going overboard trying to show her 'Pro' knowledge and essentially, while doing this, ended up throwing bullshit statement after bullshit statement at me. Again, imagine if I was new.
 
Uhhhh well.... It appears that some of what she said definitely rubbed you the wrong way. I can see how when much of what she stated doesn't jive with your own experience you might detect what smells to you like bullshit...I will say however she's been around forever. IMO she has been a wealth of knowledge and exceptional recipes even back on ECF 6+ years ago and I myself agree with much of what she's talking about- the muting, lessened steep time, and shake and vape often being associated with overflavoring etc.

Some people are more tactful than others in how they go about providing feedback but you can't expect everyone else to act exactly how you would, that's just not reality. The problem really occurs in these online forums when the ego creeps in, all niceties disappear and the gloves come off, and I see a bit of it on both sides here.

You comment "what if I was new"... Well you're not helping new mixers with your aggressive responses and it unfortunately also dissuades experienced mixers from offering knowledge in other posts out of a desire to avoid drama. I've seen it first hand too many times to count and it frankly just hurts the growth of the community.

There's info out there to be found if you care to look for it on all she was talking about but you need to look for it. The vast majority of people making DIY will be perfectly happy making DIY for themselves and friends which is great as they are having fun and saving money. It's not often though that they are willing to put in the amount of research and work required to make truly amazing recipes that are commercially viable because it is a LOT of work. This hobby is as deep and complex as you care to dive and the deeper I go the more I realize how little I actually know. I'm constantly discovering things that I thought I already knew are not actually true. It's quite humbling actually.

At the end of the day the biggest goal in all of this is to stay off cigarettes or tobacco and help others find freedom as well right? You're right that not everyone will like everything but my own hope is that we can all be nicer to reach other while we're doing that. I hope you have a better day man.
 

NGAHaze

Gold Contributor
Member For 5 Years
.I will say however she's been around forever. IMO she has been a wealth of knowledge and exceptional recipes even back on ECF 6+ years ago

Math ... a lost art, lol. Smoky didn't even join ECF until May of 2013 so unless there's some magic involved that I'm not aware of, she wasn't posting recipes there 6+ years ago ... just saying. In fact, I remember quite well when she first started mixing because, for me at least, her recipes were way over flavored, especially her early versions.

The problem really occurs in these online forums when the ego creeps in

Really? You're lecturing the OP about ego, smh!
 

Smoky Blue

VU Donator
Platinum Contributor
Unlisted Vendor
Member For 5 Years
Ya know... here is the thing.. I already know what FLV lemonade tastes like at 6% and Mr Pathetic still cant understand that.

I do not like it at 6%, I wont use it again at 6% and I do not like Inawera.. he must have missed me giving over 200.00 of ina out years ago...
I am not sorry.. It will not happen. He even admits.. there might be others that will not like this.. I am one of them. Apparently @ZenZephyr is too. There are a lot more like me.. that do not like FLV lemonade at 6%. The bubbly effect you are getting is from the ina.... not lemonade.. it has no bubbly effect. so... @RonJS said he will give feedback and I hope you both will allow him to do so and not jump on him like this.

This discussion is really taking a personal slinging.. and.. this right here is why I stay away.. the bitching.

NGA.. you know I love to have alts.. alternative accounts.. for all you know.. I could be Mr Pathetic too.. making a rise out of this recipe. ;)

and yeah.. it's good to be back.. Not.. So... mix as you will.. post what you want.. run your audiences away unless they kiss your butt and leave mints in your pillows. I will not comment anymore.. oh and buy more lemonade.. my stock just went up. Thanks! :)
 

PatheticMr.

Bronze Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Member For 3 Years
Member For 2 Years
Ya know... here is the thing.. I already know what FLV lemonade tastes like at 6% and Mr Pathetic still cant understand that.

I do not like it at 6%, I wont use it again at 6% and I do not like Inawera.. he must have missed me giving over 200.00 of ina out years ago...
I am not sorry.. It will not happen. He even admits.. there might be others that will not like this.. I am one of them. Apparently @ZenZephyr is too. There are a lot more like me.. that do not like FLV lemonade at 6%. The bubbly effect you are getting is from the ina.... not lemonade.. it has no bubbly effect. so... @RonJS said he will give feedback and I hope you both will allow him to do so and not jump on him like this.

This discussion is really taking a personal slinging.. and.. this right here is why I stay away.. the bitching.

NGA.. you know I love to have alts.. alternative accounts.. for all you know.. I could be Mr Pathetic too.. making a rise out of this recipe. ;)

and yeah.. it's good to be back.. Not.. So... mix as you will.. post what you want.. run your audiences away unless they kiss your butt and leave mints in your pillows. I will not comment anymore.. oh and buy more lemonade.. my stock just went up. Thanks! :)

I've said what I had to say. I think we can both just leave it there.
 

RonJS

Gold Contributor
Member For 5 Years
@RonJS said he will give feedback and I hope you both will allow him to do so and not jump on him like this.

As long as the "Teresa flavor voodoo curse" is not unleashed, ( post #11 here... http://vapingunderground.com/threads/honey-bun.200773/ ) I think I'll be okay...:facepalm:

I'm still working on a 12 (or more in my case!) step program to mend my evil ways... http://vapingunderground.com/threads/be-kind.313640/

Heck, ever since Al Gore invented the internet, I don't think there was ever a Forum where everybody agreed on everything. If folks did, life would be so boring..:gaah:

Ron
---
"I wish I had more time to seek out the dark forces and join their hellish crusade."- Morticia Adams
 

RonJS

Gold Contributor
Member For 5 Years
Just finished mixing 30mls single flavor FLV Lemonade as suggested. Or, .24 grams (.8%) 50/50 ED 18mg VT Premium.

I will will wait 3-4 days and be back.

I'm Back! :)

I washed out and put a new coil (SS 316L .98 Ohms) on my Origen little and gave it a ride on my REO. While the massive strength of some FLV flavors (like Cinnamon) is well known to me, I was anticipating this mix to be weak and of little flavor. It wasn't. While it was lacking any significant lemon flavor at .8%, I also found that the case in all my previous mixing levels percentages. Overall the .8 had a slightly lower lemon flavor level than the higher amounts. It also did not have the unpleasing chemical notes the higher levels had.

While I find it unlikely I will ever mix it as a single flavor again, if I had to choose, it would be at the .8% level. It was close, but the overall smoother vape of the lower flavor amount coupled with the lack of chemical notes gave it the nod for me.

I can only speculate why FLV suggests such higher usage rates for this flavor

Ron
---
"Finding Nirvana is like locating silence."- Jack Kerouac
 

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