Please share your steep tips or trick

[AmandaD]

It works with all ratios. I set mine right on the bottom - but I do use glass.

 

[550HPWRX]

OK Thanks

 

[Vapo]

It works with all ratios. I set mine right on the bottom - but I do use glass.

What about store bought flavors in plastic bottles. Is the crock pot method ok to use with those and maybe in baggies to protect the labels from the water?

 

[AmandaD]

It would really depend on the plastic - if it leaches it would ruin your juice! And I'm pretty sure that 150 degrees would warp the bottom at least. So, I think if you could transfer it to glass it would be better. But others may have done it and have different opinions!

 

[buffaloguy]

you can but as amanda said you run the risk of warping the bottles a little and possibly leeching the plastic chems into your juice, depending on kind of plastic used. My suggestion for plastic bottles is to use a temp of around 100°f to 110°f, but just run it for a longer duration of time like 6 to 7 hours for similar results.

Personally I dont trust plastic and only use glass. Even when I rarely buy vendor juices they all go into glass as soon as I get them. A good source for glass bottles is specialtybottle.com. I use the clear boston round bottles with dripper tops. Initial investment in glass isnt cheap but they pay for themselves in reuse, and ease of cleaning.

 

[Vapo]

you can but as amanda said you run the risk of warping the bottles a little and possibly leeching the plastic chems into your juice, depending on kind of plastic used. My suggestion for plastic bottles is to use a temp of around 100°f to 110°f, but just run it for a longer duration of time like 6 to 7 hours for similar results.

Personally I dont trust plastic and only use glass. Even when I rarely buy vendor juices they all go into glass as soon as I get them. A good source for glass bottles is specialtybottle.com. I use the clear boston round bottles with dripper tops. Initial investment in glass isnt cheap but they pay for themselves in reuse, and ease of cleaning.

Thanks Amanda, Buffalo, These are some I got from Mount Baker. Just got them and was letting them sit and found this thread about faster steeping. I'll check out Specialitybottle.com as well. Thanks for the advice.

 

[disco180]

Same here with the CP on High instead, Lid propped open, 4 hours. I don't even check the temp no more because even hitting 175 F and checking the nic level afterwards didn't show any degradation in nic strength. I refer to this method as "cooking", I mix up my juices in the morning on the weekend, cook them for 4 hours and then store them in the closet for 24hrs and they are good to go. The tobacco mixes I just cook them all day like a pot roast adding water for up to 8 hours and when I open the bottle after all that time it smells just like tobacco.

Bad news is that my Ultrasonic Cleaner has filed for a divorce and is likely going to receive half of my flavor inventory in the settlement

 

[barberguy]

whats better for steeping a ultra sonic cleaner or a centrifuge ( an item usually you see scientist or labs putting tubes of blood in so it keeps everything moving or their trying to extract items from the blood but some spin like 60 spins per second )

 

[barberguy]

Ok gang... steeping is something I know well. Im the guy from ECF that nailed down the most used method for crock pot steeping. So rather than heading over to that other vaping forum and reading thru hundreds of pages and thousands of posts on testing using crock pots or UC's Ill keep it simple for you. Also adding some recent scientific tests to my info done by another member of that very forum.

First off those tests. They show that a HEATED UC and crock pot steeping will offer nearly indescernable results in the same amount of time. My advice is if you have a crock pot at home dont run out and buy an ultrasonic cleaner to steep juice. Its just not necessary. Im still waiting on more info regarding nicotine concentration loss when heating juice but it looks to be negligible, if at all, based on the temps we are using. So have at it. Ill update with more info if I find out that changes at all.

So my tried and true, tested for two years and counting method. Also done by many many others with stellar results.

1) Fill crock with hot water to below the level of the neck of your bottles.
2) Put crock on low heat setting to heat up. It should be at or near 150° F for steeping. This is your target temp and what you want to maintain for the duration of your steeping.
3) Mix your juice. I personally use glass boston round dropper bottles.
4) Cap it, hard shake it by hand till mixed thru.
5) Once mixed if you prefer to "off gas" any alc base flavoring or heavy aromas in your juice (liquor flavors or heavy floral scents for example) place it in the crock pot with the cap off for the first hour. Then cap for duration. If thats of no concern, cap it and put your juice in the crock.
6) Let it sit in that crock at 150° for a total of four hours. You can go longer but you will likely find it unnecessary.

This four hours will shave about 2 to 2.5 weeks off your steeping for ANY juice. All tobaccos included. Even the most stubborn of them. Shaking is absolutely unnecessary with this method. The heating causes the juice to mix and all on its own.

Yes, you can put it in the closet for weeks. On a window sill. In a hot car, or even in your bra and itll be just fine.... in time. A crock saves time, and effort. Plus this is a hell of alot easier than dropping bottles in reheated cups of water over, and over, and over again (how I started using my crock was because of that).

Ive been mixing juice over two years. Im a mostly VG guy too btw, 80% VG usually. Its the method I use and Ive used all the others as well. It is the best way to do it.

But, use any method you like and gives results you prefer. I just dont like waiting weeks on my tobacco flavors and I vape alot of them. I used to closet steep when I first started mixing, never again will I do so. Even if I know a juice needs four weeks for full maturity itll still go in the crock for four hours just to shave a couple weeks off it, and it works for that as well.

And no, microwaving juice is a bad idea esp in plastic bottles. More so if the flavoring is a tank cracker containing triacetin, a plasticizer used in making flavorings. Use glass folks. Its better and lasts longer, looks nicer, and preserves juices better.

Have fun!

what do you all think about a centrifuge

 

[Heabob]

What about store bought flavors in plastic bottles. Is the crock pot method ok to use with those and maybe in baggies to protect the labels from the water?

I ran into the MBV plastic bottles warping just using the UC for too many cycles, got pretty hot.

Now I only run them 1-2, 30min cycles.

Prefer using the plastic dropper top bottles, as it's just easier for me to fill my BCC tanks.

 

[Vapo]

I ran into the MBV plastic bottles warping just using the UC for too many cycles, got pretty hot.

Now I only run them 1-2, 30min cycles.

Prefer using the plastic dropper top bottles, as it's just easier for me to fill my BCC tanks.

I have some empty glass from past Virgin Vapor orders and sent for some other glass bottles too. Now I just need caps for the bottles, the heat can't be good for the rubber tips on the droppers. Is this 150 temp from the crock pot with lid off or on or do i need to have it partially on and check the temperature and adjust as needed?

 

[AmandaD]

I have two that stay at 150 on warm setting with the lid cracked. One is big, and one is much smaller, so it seems pretty consistent. I put proper caps on mine, because I was always worried the rubber tips on the droppers would let in air - but that's probably not true.

 

[disco180]

It will also warp the rubber tip of the dropper, make sure you buy bottles without the dropper and the regular caps if it has the clear plastic insert in the cap, remove it.

 

[barberguy]

Same here with the CP on High instead, Lid propped open, 4 hours. I don't even check the temp no more because even hitting 175 F and checking the nic level afterwards didn't show any degradation in nic strength. I refer to this method as "cooking", I mix up my juices in the morning on the weekend, cook them for 4 hours and then store them in the closet for 24hrs and they are good to go. The tobacco mixes I just cook them all day like a pot roast adding water for up to 8 hours and when I open the bottle after all that time it smells just like tobacco.

Bad news is that my Ultrasonic Cleaner has filed for a divorce and is likely going to receive half of my flavor inventory in the settlement

start giving them to someone you trust and say they were a gift courts cant touch a gift......

 

[barberguy]

I use an ultrasonic cleaner- the one I like is the Black Hills Gold Source model 890 at amazon - it has a 30 min. timer, I push the button once and walk away, I usually do 6 bottles at a time. the water gets pretty hot (not boiling) but since I use a lot of VG it's a good thing. I don't know if everything is good to vape then and there as a lot sets on a shelf until I get to it

CAN SOMEONE TELL ME WHAT and why a ultrasonic cleaner how to do it in one and why Please I just may have a solution for you all

 

[AmandaD]

CAN SOMEONE TELL ME WHAT and why a ultrasonic cleaner how to do it in one and why Please I just may have a solution for you all

Heat for 4 hours (150 has been agreed on for now as the ideal temperature). The agitation from the UC helps, but the results are very close in a crockpot with no agitation. Heat is the most important factor.

 

[barberguy]

hi amanda I am no genius at this thats for sure but I see what you are saying by heat because you want your juice to mix well am I not correct

ok what if you could mix it in minutes without heat

 

[AmandaD]

It's more a case of blending and 'maturing' the flavors. From experiments done on the other forum, 4 hours of heat is the equivalent to leaving the juice in a dark cupboard for a few weeks (I can't remember the exact equivalent time)! Think of it like making spaghetti! Or when you leave a stew in the fridge for a few days - the flavors really come out much more than when you just made it!

 

[barberguy]

ok how about if you could take the juice and spin it about 60 x per second for 10 min or 30 mins how ever long

 

[AmandaD]

It's the heat that seems to be the important factor. The UC without the heat is not helpful!

 

[disco180]

My UC was un-heated and it never changed the color of the juice no matter how many cycles I ran it through. I think it agitated and heated my dog more then it did my juice cause it makes him bark

 

[Daniel]

I've taken over the wife's crock pot....hehehehehe

 

[buffaloguy]

what do you all think about a centrifuge

How is spinning a juice at high speed any different than shaking it?

Heat not only speeds the process but it also mixes your juice for you. When you boil water it rolls from bottom to top. Just cause you arent boiling your juice doesnt mean it isnt moving inside the bottle at a much lower temp of 150°f.

Next time you try a crock pot steep just put your ingredients in the bottle, dont shake it, and put it in the crock for 4 hours. Watch what happens

It'll mix itself.

As far as rubber dropper tops go, they arent heat sensitive, wont hold smells, and wont warp. They also do not let air in at all unless you have the wrong size top on your bottle. I have repeatedly used the same dropper tops for my crock steeping and for my juice for years now.

 

[RocketPuppy]

As far as rubber dropper tops go, they arent heat sensitive, wont hold smells, and wont warp.

The rubber used for dropper bottles is very pliable and corrodes easily. Most suppliers do not recommend using the rubber dropper as a lid for long term.

When nic/pg/oils/flavors are pulled into the bulb without being dispelled, it can/does degrade the rubber contingent on quality of material. It's difficult to expel all the juice once it's pulled into the bulb. The rubber acts like a sponge. It may not be pronounced or visible to the eye, but when potent flavors are used, it's fairly obvious.

 

[buffaloguy]

Ive never experienced any of this with eliquid. Mine have not deteriorated at all. Maybe partly because its nearly impossible to fill up the entire dropper with liquid. In fact it never even goes into the bulb.

Essential oils, yes, they will destroy rubber over time. But I dont vape oils so maybe thats why mine havent shown wear.

Now as far as the rubber ring part of the seal between the plastic cap and the bottle there has been no degradation. Ive never had to even replace one.

Maybe some are made of different materials than others. Ive never looked into it.

All I know is what I see and all of mine look like the day they were purchased well over two years in use, daily.

The rubber used for dropper bottles is very pliable and corrodes easily. Most suppliers do not recommend using the rubber dropper as a lid for long term.

When nic/pg/oils/flavors are pulled into the bulb without being dispelled, it can/does degrade the rubber contingent on quality of material. It's difficult to expel all the juice once it's pulled into the bulb. The rubber acts like a sponge. It may not be pronounced or visible to the eye, but when potent flavors are used, it's fairly obvious.

 

[Frawg]

For the shop, and for high vg mixes I have an industrial heat gun from home that heats at two different settings. It serves 2 purposes. Heat for shrink bands that doesn't blow the bottle across the table. Heat for helping complex flavors mix better into high vg mixes. We use glass at the shop so I have no issues using the heat gun for that. I have a brand no longer sold by Home Depot, I'm pretty sure the new brand/model is safer, I just bought mine over a decade + ago, and they last really well if you never take them out of the box. The one I have is something like 500 F & 1300 F. I very seldom use the higher setting. I had two of the heat guns for home projects and other craft things I needed heat (but not flame) for.

If heating juice bottles I set the bottle on the table or hold the cap and aim the heat at the base of the glass - warms it enough to get the contents to thin a bit and helps flavor dispersal I've found. I did a test on a bottle of a very complex flavor I'm working on for the shop, bottle steeped normally took 21 day to come to full flavor. Bottle heated by the low heat gun setting for 30 or so seconds in 10-15 second increments was at similar steeped flavor level after 5 days.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Genesis-12-5-Amp-Dual-Temperature-Heat-Gun-Kit-GHG1500A/203656913

This is the equivalent of the one I have, but for $10 more you can get http://www.homedepot.com/p/Wagner-HT3500-1500-Watt-Digital-Heat-Gun-0503040/203474822#specifications which is digital and includes a range of 250-1350 F - in 12 increments so you have more range to work with for lower temp things like plastics (maybe).

 

[Frawg]

The rubber used for dropper bottles is very pliable and corrodes easily. Most suppliers do not recommend using the rubber dropper as a lid for long term.

When nic/pg/oils/flavors are pulled into the bulb without being dispelled, it can/does degrade the rubber contingent on quality of material. It's difficult to expel all the juice once it's pulled into the bulb. The rubber acts like a sponge. It may not be pronounced or visible to the eye, but when potent flavors are used, it's fairly obvious.

Yeah we recycle our bottles, the droppers get reused maybe once for some flavors but mostly as I'm the cleaner for the bottles, "oh this is in 3 pieces instead of 2" its time to toss it. I save the glass tubes, and just get new dropper tops. There are some places that let you buy new bulbs/lids without the glass. Not many but some.

Cinnamon red hot type flavors are VERY VERY good about eating through droppers in short order. That reminds me I have to send the boss an email.

 

[Thunderball]

I have a little fondue crockpot, very small, and I've been using that for about a year and a half. I never did any experimenting as Amanda and that bunch did over at ECF, but common sense told me that heating the molecules would of course mix all those juices together much faster. It works very well.

I haven't bought store-bought juices in about a year and a half but when I did, you can just throw them in there because they will always float. Now I mixed juices and place my beaker inside the pot, I've even mix up large amounts in a one cup Pyrex measuring glass and will just set that in there.

It really does work very well everybody


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[AmericanWoman661]

I use glass beakers for my DIY juices. I make a 80/20 VG/PG mix so it it pretty thick. I bring water to a boil in a large pot (enough water to reach about halfway up the side of the beaker), turn heat off and set beakers in the pot. Once the eliquid has warmed up and thinned, I use a battery operated milk foamer (from IKEA) to oxygenate the liquid. I mix each eliquid for about a minute. I repeat the heating/mixing process a few more times, let eliquid cool and most juices are ready to go. For some flavors, I then let the beakers sit for 2-7 days, stirring once daily. This has been my best approach so far....

 

[RocketPuppy]

^ Whoa! You let the liquid with nic aerate for that long?

 

[RocketPuppy]

Whoa again! I have to ask again...you let it sit that long without any covering?

 

[AmericanWoman661]

Yep, but I put the beakers in a cabinet. I have never experienced any diminished flavor. Just continues to darken and become richer in flavor. I am no expert here, just sharing what works for me. I don't have a great understanding yet about the so called "alcohols" from the flavoring that supposedly need to dissipate (though the heating and stirring probably accelerates this), so that is why I don't cover; also this allows more oxygen to circulate.

 

[AmericanWoman661]

Also, my nic content is low, 6mg, as I build my coils @ about .20 .

 

[buffaloguy]

Well its likely your nic content is much lower than that. Oxygen is the enemy of nicotine. Its also not nice to flavorings. You might think your juice is getting better but frankly its just oxidizing and losing potentcy as well as collecting contaminants. Your juice is degrading. Im sure it tastes just fine to you, if its what you are accustomed to. I can tell you ive tested leaving juice exposed for up to a month vs capped (more than twice) and I wouldnt vape the uncapped juice for more than a couple puffs.

Now I know you feel that what you are doing works for you but you are working with some misconceptions.

Frothing your juice to mix it exposes it to oxygen. Leaving it open uncovered with a large surface area like an open beaker invites airborne contaminants like dust, mold, pollens, and other things to take residence in your juice as well. Your nic level is certainly degrading being.exposed to that much air, and likely adding a slightly funky taste/odor to your juice. Maybe you dont notice it, but I assure you its there.

I also cant advise a boiling water bath for juice. I myself havent tested it. As far as I know, no one has. I have no idea what temps above 250°f will do to juice, if it even gets that hot. At some point heat will degrade nicotine and create compounds you dont want to be vaping. The low temps of 150-200° wont do that. That much we do know.

As far as the alcohol in juice well thats another misconception. it doesnt need to evaporate at all. I work with alcohol based super concentrates regularly and I cannot taste or smell it in my juice and I have returned to having an impeccable palate. I used to let alcohol based flavoring evaporate while crock pot steeping with my caps off for the first hour only, but I dont do that anymore.

The only time it is necessary to leave a cap off or let juice air out is if you are trying to minimize a chemical type of overtone, or when using an alcohol flavoring like rum, brandy, or the like. Then its only necessary for 12 hours if not crock pot steeping, or 1 hour in a crock with the cap off (glass bottles only suggested for this) by comparison. Leaving it to air longer isnt helping any at all and only diminishes juice quality the longer you do so. If the chemical overtone isnt gone by then, its likely not going to go away.

There is alot to be said for "do what works for you", but there are ways to do things differently that would work better for you, and many others posting their techniques.

Its been tested as scientifically as possible gang. Low heat is what you need. Not boiling water, not heat guns, not centrifuges, or frothers. Just a plain old water bath for four hours at a constant 150°.

Please dont take this as a knock on anyones method(s) but really, truly, I went to painstaking lengths to test my method on hundreds of samples before I even released my findings to ecf.

It works. Simplify your mixing.

Yep, but I put the beakers in a cabinet. I have never experienced any diminished flavor. Just continues to darken and become richer in flavor. I am no expert here, just sharing what works for me. I don't have a great understanding yet about the so called "alcohols" from the flavoring that supposedly need to dissipate (though the heating and stirring probably accelerates this), so that is why I don't cover; also this allows more oxygen to circulate.

 

[AmericanWoman661]

Well its likely your nic content is much lower than that. Oxygen is the enemy of nicotine. Its also not nice to flavorings. You might think your juice is getting better but frankly its just oxidizing and losing potentcy as well as collecting contaminants. Your juice is degrading. Im sure it tastes just fine to you, if its what you are accustomed to. I can tell you ive tested leaving juice exposed for up to a month vs capped (more than twice) and I wouldnt vape the uncapped juice for more than a couple puffs.

Now I know you feel that what you are doing works for you but you are working with some misconceptions.

Frothing your juice to mix it exposes it to oxygen. Leaving it open uncovered with a large surface area like an open beaker invites airborne contaminants like dust, mold, pollens, and other things to take residence in your juice as well. Your nic level is certainly degrading being.exposed to that much air, and likely adding a slightly funky taste/odor to your juice. Maybe you dont notice it, but I assure you its there.

I also cant advise a boiling water bath for juice. I myself havent tested it. As far as I know, no one has. I have no idea what temps above 250°f will do to juice, if it even gets that hot. At some point heat will degrade nicotine and create compounds you dont want to be vaping. The low temps of 150-200° wont do that. That much we do know.

As far as the alcohol in juice well thats another misconception. it doesnt need to evaporate at all. I work with alcohol based super concentrates regularly and I cannot taste or smell it in my juice and I have returned to having an impeccable palate. I used to let alcohol based flavoring evaporate while crock pot steeping with my caps off for the first hour only, but I dont do that anymore.

The only time it is necessary to leave a cap off or let juice air out is if you are trying to minimize a chemical type of overtone, or when using an alcohol flavoring like rum, brandy, or the like. Then its only necessary for 12 hours if not crock pot steeping, or 1 hour in a crock with the cap off (glass bottles only suggested for this) by comparison. Leaving it to air longer isnt helping any at all and only diminishes juice quality the longer you do so. If the chemical overtone isnt gone by then, its likely not going to go away.

There is alot to be said for "do what works for you", but there are ways to do things differently that would work better for you, and many others posting their techniques.

Its been tested as scientifically as possible gang. Low heat is what you need. Not boiling water, not heat guns, not centrifuges, or frothers. Just a plain old water bath for four hours at a constant 150°.

Please dont take this as a knock on anyones method(s) but really, truly, I went to painstaking lengths to test my method on hundreds of samples before I even released my findings to ecf.

It works. Simplify your mixing.

 

[AmericanWoman661]

No knocks taken! This is what this forum is about, sharing knowledge and ideas. By posting, I am inviting vapers to weigh in on my steeping method and more importantly, I hope to gain some scientific insight as to how various compounds of eliquids are affected by these various steeping techniques. We are in the infancy stage of vaping technology and many of us are eager to have a better understanding of the intricate aspects of all things related to vaping. I appreciate your input, and your point regarding molds, allergens, etc. getting into eliquids is a very valid point (l am only making liquids for myself) so thank you for your comments.

 

[memvapr]

Hey Buffalo, I know MikeP was working to determine correlation between nic degradation and possible composition changes that would still pass as nic but affect it's efficacy. From what I can tell, he never completed his testing after he realized that he'd made a mistake with the titration. Or did I miss his do over?

Re: oxygen and nic, here's another opinion that seems to support AmericanWoman that UV light and heat are issues not necessarily air... http://www.nudenicotine.com/category/e-liquid-chemistry-education/

To AW's point, until someone can compile enough empirical data that can pass independent review, its all a bit anecdotal so I remain open minded... yet skeptical.

 

[buffaloguy]

The information on their website is inherently flawed. Sorry, I know people want to regard those that sell us nicotine as experts but its info like that being the reason Ive never ordered from them. Much the info they have there in their "articles" is misinformation and frankly pulled from other sources. I see no independently verified testing of the science they are writing about. John, the owner of.wizard labs explained it to me quite well when he said "oxygen is the biggest enemy of nicotine". When I asked him about heat he said "only in the persence of alot of oxygen at the same time. So keep it.covered." Every test Ive ever done confirms that and Im not the only one to test with control samples. Im no chemist like him but Im no dummy... lol.

Heating and oxidation are two entirely different things with different chemical reactions. One does not cause the other and vice versa. However, the caveat being that heat can accelerate oxidation but only if exposed to copious amounts of air because heat causes flow and movement of the liquid. Hence why we do steeping with the caps on and not in open containers.

Exposure to air is all that can cause oxidation, not heat. Oxidizing is caused by exposure to oxygen only. Thus frothing eliquid and leaving it.exposed will do far more damage to juice than heat ever could.

Keeping air out of your juice is essential to making good juice and the longevity of it.

MikeP never finished up his testing yet. Ive been waiting to see it myself. He did say a couple months ago that his life had got in the way but would get back to it when he could.

Hey Buffalo, I know MikeP was working to determine correlation between nic degradation and possible composition changes that would still pass as nic but affect it's efficacy. From what I can tell, he never completed his testing after he realized that he'd made a mistake with the titration. Or did I miss his do over?

Re: oxygen and nic, here's another opinion that seems to support AmericanWoman that UV light and heat are issues not necessarily air... http://www.nudenicotine.com/category/e-liquid-chemistry-education/

To AW's point, until someone can compile enough empirical data that can pass independent review, its all a bit anecdotal so I remain open minded... yet skeptical.

 

[memvapr]

I see no independently verified testing of the science they are writing about.

John, the owner of.wizard labs explained it to me

Im no chemist

=MikeP never finished up his testing yet.

until someone can compile enough empirical data that can pass independent review, its all a bit anecdotal so I remain open minded... yet skeptical.

 

[rowdyplace]

ok how about if you could take the juice and spin it about 60 x per second for 10 min or 30 mins how ever long

My 2¢:

Put 5 - 10 drops of ketchup in a 15 mL bottle of vg, pg, or distilled water and (without shaking) spin it in a centrifuge for about an hour. Yes, tomato ketchup.

Do the same thing and insert this bottle of ingredients into a UC for that hour, then, a third bottle of the same ingredients into a crock pot for this hour.

In my experiments, the centrifuge did NOT mix the ingredients. In fact, if anything, this seemed to separate the ingredients instead of mixing them together (you could easily see the red ketchup still "globbed" together - not mixed with the other clear liquid). The other two bottles were mixed by their respective treatment (uniformly colored pink liquid throughout the bottle - no "globs" of ketchup...).

I feel the centrifuge is not the way to go in aiding the ageing or steeping process of our craft.

Remember...Y M M V !

 

[memvapr]

I always thought a centrifuge was useful for separating suspensions in liquids not to mix them? Wouldn't a magnetic stirrer be a better choice?

 

[rowdyplace]

I always thought a centrifuge was useful for separating suspensions in liquids not to mix them? Wouldn't a magnetic stirrer be a better choice?

I absolutely agree with your thoughts. My son is a real (degree and employment - 8 years) chemist and he kinda chuckled at my home made centrifuge. I made one using a plastic butter bucket and a PC cooling fan - pics available upon request... Since then I have made a couple of magnetic stirrer tables. These work for mixing while creating the combination of liquids. I mix into a flask sitting on the stirrer table and let it run about an hour being careful not to inject much air. (No pretty whirlpools.) Then I move the flask into a Harbor Freight UC for about 4 good hours of heated UC treatment. (Mine has a damn 15 min timer...) Somedays, when lazy, I stick the flask in a CP over night at about 150° F.

Is this the "correct" way to do it? Yes, for me... Again, Y M M V !

 

[buffaloguy]

@Memvapor...
lol... nice way to cherry pick the nuggets to make it sound like I dont know what Im talking about, but I do.

I see you didnt pick out the CLEAR fact and premise of my whole post in the first place...which was very simple, oxidation is caused by exposure to oxygen... thats kinda high school science class, and home economics cooking class knowledge.

I dont need to be a chemist for that and neither do you.

 

[memvapr]

@buffaloguy ,

Really wasn't trying to pick you apart as I respect and value your participation in this community.

My point is that we are striving for something that isn't objectively defined as a measured baseline so subjects like "how much steep time is enough", "what's the best method" etc. seems based on belief systems. Some swear that steeping isn't required, others that it can only be achieved over time, some that it can be expedited via UC, CP, Paint shakers, etc. Then we have other variants like "fruits vs custards, vs tobaccos", recipe complexity/number of ingredients, VG/PG ratios, this or that particular brand of flavor, etc.

I have no doubt that what works for you... works for you in accordance with your reality.

However, I am dubious of any method where the end result of a process is measured, replicated, and confirmed solely by opinion or authority.

Personally, I'm intrigued by the research being conducted on aging wines by subjecting it to electrical fields and wonder if this might correlate.

But until then, I'll stick to my tried and true bell, book, and candle method until the next waning moon...

 

[buffaloguy]

@buffaloguy ,

My point is that we are striving for something that isn't objectively defined as a measured baseline so subjects like "how much steep time is enough", "what's the best method" etc. seems based on belief systems. Some swear that steeping isn't required, others that it can only be achieved over time, some that it can be expedited via UC, CP, Paint shakers, etc. Then we have other variants like "fruits vs custards, vs tobaccos", recipe complexity/number of ingredients, VG/PG ratios, this or that particular brand of flavor, etc.

I have no doubt that what works for you... works for you in accordance with your reality.

However, I am dubious of any method where the end result of a process is measured, replicated, and confirmed solely by opinion or authority.

Then your opinion defies sheer logic and it should not be a part of this discussion. How can you be dubious of a TESTED AND CONFIRMED process???

This discussion is about steeping methods that WORK. That HAVE been tested, replicated, measured, AND confirmed by countless people doing so.

Its not conjecture. Stop filling people up with conspiracy theory and misinformation. You even pick apart MikeP's testing without even understanding exactly what it is he was working on. What he verified thus far is that steeping at 150° in a crockpot or UC for four hours is the best known method of steeping juice. This was done with BLIND SAMPLING sent to many different and respected diy juice makers, AND control samples were used. His latest testing is noting more than if and how heat can effect nicotine concentration, not about steeping methods. The jury is out. Heat steeping works. You refusal to accept it on principle just because you wanna be a skeptic is based on outdated info and previous fallicy.

I developed and tested this method on hundreds of my own samples for well over a year and a half now. Countless others have repeated it successfully and enjoy there results. This is not a debate, its fact. I also tested many other methods of steeping side by side vs. my own method, so have others. MikeP's more scientific results dont stand alone either.

So please, unless you intend to offer actual methods for steeping juice then I really dont want to hear how you are simply choosing to ignore fact and wanna discredit peoples work based on theory.

Edit: While I do understand your point that there was previously no baseline, there is one now. Whether someone decides 175° is better, or some other method works better, fine. Ill test it and create a new baseline for myself. This is the best method and baseline for now. You can only mix juice a finite number of ways.

 

[rowdyplace]

Then your opinion defies sheer logic and it should not be a part of this discussion. How can you be dubious of a TESTED AND CONFIRMED process???

This discussion is about steeping methods that WORK. That HAVE been tested, replicated, measured, AND confirmed by countless people doing so.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<snip>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
You can only mix juice a finite number of ways.

I noticed that both AmandaD and I "liked" this post of buffaloguy's. I do believe she and I were 2 of the 6 blind testers in MikeP's (steeping - UC/CP) testing earlier this year.

 

[AmandaD]

I noticed that both AmandaD and I "liked" this post of buffaloguy's. I do believe she and I were 2 of the 6 blind testers in MikeP's (steeping - UC/CP) testing earlier this year.

Yes, indeed we were!

 

[memvapr]

@buffaloguy
Spreading misinformation, conspiracy theories and defying logic? Now that seems a bit of a reach.

I'm encouraging discourse, questioning the metrics, and choosing to think for myself. So let's just agree that we disagree.

 

[memvapr]

I noticed that both AmandaD and I "liked" this post of buffaloguy's. I do believe she and I were 2 of the 6 blind testers in MikeP's (steeping - UC/CP) testing earlier this year.

Thanks for clarifying countless.

 

[rowdyplace]

Thanks for clarifying countless.

Like to explain that comment?