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powdered sugar glaze
- Thread starter wllmc
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glassgrl
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http://www.diyflavorshack.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=Sugar+Cream+DIY+Flavoring
That might be an option. It's probably got some kind of vanillin in it though. I have some, probably a year old and it's very dark. You're welcome to it if you want to try it.
That might be an option. It's probably got some kind of vanillin in it though. I have some, probably a year old and it's very dark. You're welcome to it if you want to try it.
Jonathan Tittle
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It's more like a brown sugar / sugar blend with perhaps a hint of vanilla. It'd be a good substitute for TFA's Brown Sugar Extra, for those that don't like it, but I don't feel that it would add a "powdered" taste or feel based on my experience with it.
wllmc
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this is what I am wanting to turn into a vape. http://www.saveur.com/article/Recipes/Mexico-Pecan-Shortbread
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I'd love to find a true shortbread cookie flavor. FA Cookie just isn't there and Capella just doesn't do it for me. I'm pretty sure you could work in a pecan flavor with TFA's Toasted Almond to get the "baked" pecan flavor. Just be careful with the flavor. At 3-4%, it's super strong and it'll be that way when it ages. Not a bad flavor though.
Ah - I used to make some great little almond cookies that were covered in powdered sugar - these sound great! But I think all you really get from powdered sugar is just more sweet flavor, no? So maybe this is one use for a plain sweetener - maybe EM? (I have some but have never used it LOL)
wllmc
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ya this whole recipe would be a big challenge. it would be awesome if I can figure it out tho.
ya there is that certain flavor tho and the texture. I could sweeten it up but I have this idea in my head of the way it taste I guess but I cant seem to even explain it to myself lol. was hoping someone had tried it and snag some ideas. right now i am with @Ace , I am just going to vape powdered sugar i think ha
wllmc
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awesome thx
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At least, it seems to work with nuts, where even just the Mist kinda works. The Meringue gives a reference point for your taste buds, as they try to work out WTF Mist is, lol. No idea if that same trick works if you also have cookie/creams/whatever, but it might.
You gonna use Pistacchio in this in place of the Pecans? I like the Pistacchio after a good steep
You gonna use Pistacchio in this in place of the Pecans? I like the Pistacchio after a good steep
glassgrl
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Have you tried Inawera Biscuit? To me, it tastes like good buttery shortbread cookies. Of course there are those that disagree. lol
Lot of potential vapaliscious recipes on that site @wllmc!
What I do when I want something super sweet..
my sweet base:
10ml bottle..
I add:
65% EM
30% Sweetener
4% vodka/everclear/151 white rum
1% Agave <Yes.. the real agave.. but wait!!
let that sit overnight..
use between 2-4% as "flavoring"
I rarely go over that..
my sweet base:
10ml bottle..
I add:
65% EM
30% Sweetener
4% vodka/everclear/151 white rum
1% Agave <Yes.. the real agave.. but wait!!
let that sit overnight..
use between 2-4% as "flavoring"
I rarely go over that..
wllmc
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awesome thx !What I do when I want something super sweet..
my sweet base:
10ml bottle..
I add:
65% EM
30% Sweetener
4% vodka/everclear/151 white rum
1% Agave <Yes.. the real agave.. but wait!!
let that sit overnight..
use between 2-4% as "flavoring"
I rarely go over that..
try not to go too overboard with it, the agave is pure.. I'd start at 1% and work up..
and for those that want to holler on my agave.. I have run by the percentage I use with Dr Kurt..
he said pretty much it is a placebo effect, as long as I keep an eye on coils, it should be fine.
and for those that want to holler on my agave.. I have run by the percentage I use with Dr Kurt..
he said pretty much it is a placebo effect, as long as I keep an eye on coils, it should be fine.
anyone know how to make it or get close to it ? really just want powdered sugar but I doubt you could really get that to work. any ideas are appreciated
I've played with that kind of effect for my pfeffernüsse cookies. To me, powdered sugar coating is a lot of sweetness plus cool-th. But the cool-th has to hit right away, not at the end of a 'bite' (vape). Koolada hits too late for me in this case. But some menthols work right. But I don't want menthol flavor (gag)! My best solution is a low percent of FW's Extreme Ice. It's a menthol I can use for cool effect without tasting it, so long as the other flavors are distinctive enough and I keep Ice low. It's worth a shot.
Sweetness and richness of those cookies...have you tried Lorann's Cream Cheese Frosting? I'm sure it's loaded with diacetyl, but if you're already using a pecan flavoring...it wouldn't take even 0.25% to add the rich/sweet/buttery part of those cookies.
I second that on the Biscuit. Tastes a lot like Lorna Doone cookies. It's a great mixer or a standalone. It's the only flavor I can drink milk with.
Real shortbread cookies have lots of butter. FA Cookie has no diacetyl, so it doesn't taste like butter cookies. If you add butter flavor, you get that melt in the mouth shortbread flavor. It's a trade-off, same as any other buttery flavor.
My experiments show diacetyl + sweetness is the difference between Inawera Biscuit (the plain one, not Spicy) and FA Cookie. It's easy to demonstrate. Start with about 3% FA Cookie. Add drops of a 1% dilution (EDIT: actually, you need only a 0.5% dilution) of a diaceytl-containing flavoring. One that's sweet, vanilla, with a little hint of sour works best, like FA Pandoro, Lorann's Cream Cheese Frosting, or VZ-SC Vanilla Cake Voila (or combo). It doesn't take a whole lot. Somewhere around 5 (edit: 3!) drops/ml, and - voila - you duplicate Inawera Biscuit flavoring. FA Pandoro contains 2% diacetyl; as far as I know, percents of 'custard notes' have never been disclosed on the others I mentioned.
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What percentage do you use for standalone on that one? Or drops...I second that on the Biscuit. Tastes a lot like Lorna Doone cookies. It's a great mixer or a standalone. It's the only flavor I can drink milk with.
@wllmc, I'd just eat the hell outta those cookies! Reminds me of Spanish Wedding Cakes. Oh. Yum.
I have the pandoro.. it's good with some butter rum.. lil pecans..
As a standalone 1.6% or 10 drops from the bottle.
I don't know HIC. I have a reaction from diacetyl flavorings. Tightness in the lungs, and the taste is like I ate a tub of margarine. I don't get that from Inawera Biscuit.
glassgrl
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Inawera acknowledges diacetyl in at least some of their flavorings: "coffe, tiramisu, cappuccino, cocopilada knows tabacco, TOBACCO "APPLE", SHISHA FLAVOUR VANILLA TYPE, TABACCO "CAPPUCCINO" This is the link, partially in Dutch. If Inawera had developed a method of adding buttery flavor to Biscuit without using diacetyl, it seems unlikely they'd leave these others with diacetyl. Inawera previously denied diacetyl in all their flavorings (at least in private emails). Of course Inawera is hardly the only dishonest flavor manufacturer. Deception, denial, and chicanery seem to be the industry norm.
I'm seriously disappointed that Dr. Farsalinos' study (revealing diacetyl in the majority of tested flavors) apparently will never name the products that were tested. Vapers who contributed money hoping for this information got zero benefit from the study. But every government agency hoping to ban flavorings in ecigs got additional ammunition.
If I were wealthy, I'd pay to test every bottle in my own box of flavorings and publish the results myself.
EthelMaltol
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HIC, I am also extremely disappointed that he did not release the results. Supposedly for the benefit of the vendors. Most of them were claiming no diacetyl. For this reason, I have been using tfa as their flavorings have been tested and made public. I usually find the list at onestopdiyshop.com. the drop down tfa menu has stars on the flavors that contain custard notes.
Yeah the industry is nuts.! I've seen some freaky shit on the ECF where the hexane levels were too high in nic base. Right before my eyes it was covered up ! I'm not gonna drive myself nuts trying to figure out every single flavor that is harmful. If I feel weird from vaping it, then I'm done with it.
What? I totally missed that....bleh!
Jonathan Tittle
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I can confirm that as I've been in touch with Inawera as much as I have with Hangsen and both of them claim(ed) Diacetyl-Free. While they may very well be, Acetoin or Acetyl Proprionyl is present in some of their flavors. You can taste it. I don't get that from the Biscuit flavor though. but that doesn't mean it's not present in some amount. Most of us were surprised that fruits contained it, so I don't discount any flavor, especially one that would normally unless explicitly stated and shown otherwise.
Given what I've seen of the published study, I don't honestly think it really gives the FDA or any other agency ammo. The FDA has yet to ban the use of Diacetyl and provides a relatively high REL for it; the same for Acetyl Proprionyl. The FDA has long known that Diacetyl is in tobacco and has yet to force it to be removed by way of chemicals, genetic alteration or other methods. If it was truly as big an issue as is being stated, we'd see more and more issues with smokers. I'm not saying it's harmless, but like anything, some people are going to react to a chemical one way and some won't react to it at all. It could take 2-3 years, it could take 30-40 years; then again, it may never happen. How healthy a person is plays a huge role in the toll something will take.
I know some vapers are totally against Custard Notes and will not vape anything that contain them. I respect that. I also know that some will only vape custards (as an example) and if it were not for those flavors, they'd still be smoking. I respect that too. There are also those that are on the fence, vape it in moderation and use flavors with Custard Notes to boost their flavors. That too I respect.
The issue is that if Dr. Farsalinos published that report, it's most like be damaging to many vendors businesses. Including many big, well-known vendors. Anyone using the Original Capella Vanilla Custard in their mix (as an example, since it's very well-known) would automatically be on that list. It would be better for him to contact them and request a resolution, or at least a notice be placed on-site and sent to vendors who sell their e-liquids stating that X flavor contains X ingredients, here's a warning etc. That way he's not a target. Not saying anyone would push the backlash on him, but when you put a business in a position of potentially losing lots revenue, not all of them are smart and take it kindly.
If there is diacetyl in cigarettes (and no known cases of popcorn lung caused by smoking), what level is that? All I can find is this:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24635357
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24635357
EthelMaltol
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Regarding diacetyl in cigarette smoke, I heard there is NONE! If that is indeed correct, it is most likely the combustion that is somehow changing it. Put that same tobacco in pg to extract and you will exhale diacetyl.
Jonathan Tittle
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It's a LONG read - and it's actually e-book, but Google will give you a brief glimpse of it.
http://books.google.com/books?id=Ri...AEwCA#v=onepage&q=diacetyl in tobacco&f=false
There's also confirmation of Diacetyl here (albeit, definitely *not* as detailed as the above, which lists all chemicals in tobacco, so you will have so search for "Diacetyl" in the above search):
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/tox.20153/pdf
FlavourArt also confirms Diacetyl as being on of the chemicals in tobacco:
http://clearstream.flavourart.it/site/?p=181&lang=en
Further confirmation with a laundry list of chemicals. You won't find it listed as Diacetyl here, but by its scientific name, 2,3-Butanedione.
http://www.tricountycessation.org/tobaccofacts/Cigarette-Ingredients.html
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When you search around, very few will call it Diacetyl, so you have to look for 2,3-Butanedione, butanedione, or butane-2,3-dione. When you're looking for chemicals, the chemist or lab techs are most likely going to list it this way. Diacetyl is just an easier to say, pronounce and remember .
.
SweetWhat I do when I want something super sweet..
my sweet base:
10ml bottle..
I add:
65% EM
30% Sweetener
4% vodka/everclear/151 white rum
1% Agave <Yes.. the real agave.. but wait!!
let that sit overnight..
use between 2-4% as "flavoring"
I rarely go over that..
, thanks!
Jonathan Tittle
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I'm among the crowd that doesn't see Acetoin & Acetyl Proprionyl as "that big of a risk" and from the study by Dr. Farsalinos, which states:
"The study found that 74.2% of the samples contained either diacetyl or acetyl propionyl, with more samples containing diacetyl. The levels were on average slightly lower than currently-established safety limits (set by NIOSH), but more than 40% of the samples had higher than safety levels. Of note, the highest amount of diacetyl found was 495 times higher than safety limits, while for acetyl propionyl it was 22 times higher. Tobacco cigarettes smoke contains both compounds, at levels 100 times higher for diacetyl and 10 times higher for acetyl propionyl compared to e-cigarette average daily exposure"
...which is basically stating that even though e-liquids contain these chemicals, Tobacco Smoke contains an average of 100x more Diacetyl and 10x more Acetyl Proprionyl than our average daily exposure with e-liquid / electronic cigarettes.
Yes, it is an avoidable risk. Though according to the same report, the NIOSH REL's are based on a 1 in 1,000 chance of suffering reduced lung function. Compare that with tobacco smoke which guarantees reduced lung function, even for short-term smokers.
"The cut-off level of risk calculated by NIOSH for the safety limit is for 1 in 1000 chance of suffering reduced lung function associated with lifelong diacetyl exposure, which is a very conservative estimation."
After reading the above, I honestly don't see it as a huge issue unless someone is vaping super high concentrations that would otherwise cause them to vape at levels at or above that of tobacco smoke. Even then, we don't see tobacco users being hit with the disease. The instances where they were, they were combination smokers and factory workers, so there was no clear way to say yes, it was the factory or yes, it was the tobacco or even it was a combination of both.
http://www.ecigarette-research.com/web/index.php/research/2014/178-da-ap
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The instances where you'll find the most are in e-liquids where 20-30% flavoring is common. In those instances, sure, you're going to be vaping on some heavily concentrated levels of one or more of those chemicals (using FlavorWest Butterscotch as an example). And if you're the type to go through 30ml in a day or two, yes, you're exposing yourself to more than someone who vapes that same 30ml over a period of 5-7 days. That said, if you come from a pack to two packs a day, you're most likely still not inhaling as much as you would by smoking when vaping.
I completely respect those that prefer to steer clear, but I think the whole issue, until more finite reports come out, is being blown way out of proportion. It was never an issue with tobacco, but now that it's in flavoring, it's a huge deal. I'm not going to use 30% of a flavor and toss it in my e-liquids, whether personal or business, and I do make customers aware on the business side of things, but ultimately, I don't see it as the big issue it's been made out to be.
As far as being controllable, it is only to an extent. If you want a vanilla custard e-liquid, that tastes like vanilla custard in any way, shape or form, short of going with something that contain s Butyric Acid in place of D-A-AP, it's next to impossible. I'd love to challenge a flavor manufacturer to do it without custard notes and keep the same flavor profile (without adding something known to be in inhalation risk, or a potential one), but it's most likely not going to happen.
I completely respect those that prefer to steer clear, but I think the whole issue, until more finite reports come out, is being blown way out of proportion. It was never an issue with tobacco, but now that it's in flavoring, it's a huge deal. I'm not going to use 30% of a flavor and toss it in my e-liquids, whether personal or business, and I do make customers aware on the business side of things, but ultimately, I don't see it as the big issue it's been made out to be.
As far as being controllable, it is only to an extent. If you want a vanilla custard e-liquid, that tastes like vanilla custard in any way, shape or form, short of going with something that contain s Butyric Acid in place of D-A-AP, it's next to impossible. I'd love to challenge a flavor manufacturer to do it without custard notes and keep the same flavor profile (without adding something known to be in inhalation risk, or a potential one), but it's most likely not going to happen.
Then that comma could be a period, and your paragraph would end there. Our personal opinions and preferences are irrelevant to anyone attempting to 'steer clear.' Here are the facts from this discussion:
* Multiple flavor manufacturers have lied regarding the presence of diacetyl in their flavorings.
* Resellers and juice vendors who use those flavorings perpetuate those lies with 'diacetyl-free' claims: 74%+ of the juices tested by Dr. Farsalinos contained diacetyl or acetyl propionyl. The study is useless to vapers trying to avoid diacetyl, because he didn't name any companies or diacetyl quantities for specific flavors.
* Some people choose to vape as harm-reduction and choose to avoid diacetyl. Diacetyl is an avoidable risk, but false advertising makes it very difficult.
* Vapers often guess whether a "diacetyl-free" flavoring/liquid is indeed diacetyl-free, based on physical reactions (or lack thereof).
* In the case of Inawera Biscuit flavoring, guessing isn't necessary. Duplicate my experiment in post #23 to taste for yourself that it contains diacetyl. With a calculator and careful mixing you can even estimate the percentage it must contain. Experiments like this can be really eye-opening.
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100% Correct - I've spoken to many of them. It's a split issue. On one hand, the flavor manufacturer should honestly know what's in their flavors or they should reach out to their raw ingredients supplier and demand the information. As large as many of these companies are, that should not be an issue. On the other hand, if we're talking trace amounts, they don't have to disclose it and neither do their suppliers. They can test it, but we're still dealing with only a small handful of companies willing to do any testing. Perhaps that will change - I'd like for it to, but we're still on shaky grounds here and until we know what's coming 100%, I don't see many of them going out of their way to make the effort to test flavors.
TFA & FA are two good examples of companies that are willing to go the extra mile. FW says they are testing, but other than a sticker image on the product description, there's no information, so the efforts seem wasted. Capella is coming out with v2's, but even still, we're not seeing any reports and Butyric Acid doesn't seem like a great alternative given the description of the chemical. Others are using Fairies Finest - good luck there - I've been trying for 8 months now. I could list another 8-10 manufacturers, lesser known, who are also not going to disclose information beyond telling you to read the label or that "they don't know." I suppose I don't know is better than lying, but it's borderline the same, IMO. It seems odd that any flavor manufacturer wouldn't know since they are the source or one step below it.
As noted in other posts, I feel that backlash is one reason for not naming names. Maybe it is, maybe it's not. I don't know his true reasoning for not releasing the full report with the names of e-liquids and/or vendors, but that was his call. Perhaps he will be or has already been in touch with those companies, perhaps not. Speculation, of course - but I can see both sides of his potential reasoning.
It is avoidable as long as vendors receive correct information from manufacturers or they do their own testing. The first is iffy, the second will be a cost they either choose to incur or choose not to. Some will, the majority will not, especially those with mass market appeal and hundreds of flavors. I've not seen any of the larger vendors with those numbers step up and actually show reports, not just make a broad statement. Until that happens, I honestly don't see many smaller vendors doing it either.
I'll have to try again
. I have another bottle on the way - it's been a little while since I've sat down with it, so once it arrives, I'll definitely give it a second look.
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So, @wllmc, how's it coming with that glaze?
Sorry to detract from the thread guys
- just sharing some information / opinions since it's a heated debate, especially right now (on forums and Facebook groups) and it's growing. I'll save it for another thread and for the groups so we don't continually send notifications to those who are more interested in the glaze creation over D-A-AP (via this thread, not that they aren't interested in general) .
Noooooo no no no. This has been GREAT to read. Anyone that knows me knows how much I goof around. Please, proceed. This is great information we're learning.Sorry to detract from the thread guys
What I do when I want something super sweet..
my sweet base:
10ml bottle..
I add:
65% EM
30% Sweetener
4% vodka/everclear/151 white rum
1% Agave <Yes.. the real agave.. but wait!!
let that sit overnight..
use between 2-4% as "flavoring"
I rarely go over that..
so.... anyone try this?
