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Questions about ribbon wire

champton

Bronze Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Hey guys, as some of you already know, I started getting into fused clapton building. I looked around on kbeevapes and saw they had ribbon wire for sale as well. I have a few questions about it:

1. What is it normally used for?
2. Does it vape any differently from rounded wire?
3. Can it be used as a core wire for fused claptons/aliens?
 

KarmicRage

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Absolutely it can be used for fused claptons. I think it becomes a staple fused clapton then though. Some people say it gives a better flavour on builds as it has more surface area to vapourise your juice. As to what it's normally used for I have no idea, probably being put to better use in vaping though haha.

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whiteowl84

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We use it for making staples.
Basically it just adds another shape to build with making extremely wide coils easier. Different builds are always going to have different characteristics down to how it's fused.
With only round wire you'd be really limited as to what you can build.

Since you've never used it before I'd get it from Coil Society. It's a hell of alot easier to work with.
dd81d2d101cf3f1510fb68b851175bbb.jpg


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MWorthington

Silver Contributor
Member For 4 Years
ECF Refugee
We use it for making staples.
Basically it just adds another shape to build with making extremely wide coils easier. Different builds are always going to have different characteristics down to how it's fused.
With only round wire you'd be really limited as to what you can build.

Since you've never used it before I'd get it from Coil Society. It's a hell of alot easier to work with.
dd81d2d101cf3f1510fb68b851175bbb.jpg


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When you put the round wire on each side like that, is that what you call a framed staple?
 

whiteowl84

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Yes.
That's actually a staggerton but all ribbon is a staple and ribbon with round frames is framed.
Coiling ribbon without frames is really difficult with 0.5 and 0.4 if you don't build wide enough. 0.3 isn't too bad.

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Carambrda

Platinum Contributor
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Member For 5 Years
Here are five examples of famous build tutorials using ribbon wire.

tiger coil:
staple coil:
staple staggered fused clapton coil:
framed staple coil:
stapled helix coil:
 

aeon

Bronze Contributor
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
  1. Making not-so-standard coils
  2. In my experience, very much so. I have used .2mm × .8mm, and it tends to have a low resistance, as well as taking a long time to dissipate heat once it has been fired (makes sense given the mass). I only built a simple coil from it, not anything fancy, and because of the thickness, it was not particularly easy for me to work with. That said, I didn’t preheat it with a torch before winding either. I’m undecided on that size. I also have some .1mm × .5mm that I have not tried yet, and I feel more hopeful about it. I got both spools in 316L stainless steel.
  3. I’m sure it can, depending on your skills, experience, and tools.

Cheers,
Ian
 

Dustyjeans

Bronze Contributor
Member For 4 Years
  1. Making not-so-standard coils
  2. In my experience, very much so. I have used .2mm × .8mm, and it tends to have a low resistance, as well as taking a long time to dissipate heat once it has been fired (makes sense given the mass). I only built a simple coil from it, not anything fancy, and because of the thickness, it was not particularly easy for me to work with. That said, I didn’t preheat it with a torch before winding either. I’m undecided on that size. I also have some .1mm × .5mm that I have not tried yet, and I feel more hopeful about it. I got both spools in 316L stainless steel.
  3. I’m sure it can, depending on your skills, experience, and tools.

Cheers,
Ian
Every thing above plus. If I were learning ribbon stacks again theres 4 things I wish i would have known from the start. 1: The fold and loop method of stacking ribbon is the easiest to learn. If you want to float the stack between the frames just clip the loop off.
2: As mentioned above staple/ribbon builds tend to have alot of mass so they take alot of power to heat and hold the heat a long time...so the lighter guage wrap wire you can manage the better. 36g is the absolute heaviest you should even consider. Ive found 40g to be a good compromise between performance and durability. If you cant clapton the light guages tight yet keep practicing.
3: Prestrech the ribbon! It will make coiling the wire so much easier. For example: 20" .4×.1 Ka1 will strech at least 1"!
4: keep constant tension in the coil as you are wrapping it up. A small vise is the way to go here.
Good luck!

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Carambrda

Platinum Contributor
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Member For 5 Years
Every thing above plus. If I were learning ribbon stacks again theres 4 things I wish i would have known from the start. 1: The fold and loop method of stacking ribbon is the easiest to learn. If you want to float the stack between the frames just clip the loop off.
2: As mentioned above staple/ribbon builds tend to have alot of mass so they take alot of power to heat and hold the heat a long time...so the lighter guage wrap wire you can manage the better. 36g is the absolute heaviest you should even consider. Ive found 40g to be a good compromise between performance and durability. If you cant clapton the light guages tight yet keep practicing.
3: Prestrech the ribbon! It will make coiling the wire so much easier. For example: 20" .4×.1 Ka1 will strech at least 1"!
4: keep constant tension in the coil as you are wrapping it up. A small vise is the way to go here.
Good luck!

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Some people actually prefer 36g Nichrome80 instead of a higher gauge Nichrome80 wrap wire in terms of vape experience with the staple staggered fused clapton build. You also have to take into account that the Nichrome80 wrap wire heats up faster than the Kanthal A1 core wires and ribbon stack so there's definitely more to the story than meets the eye, and, as far as wrapping up the coils goes, please refer to the coiling part of the build tutorial videos I posted... IMHO they contain a shit ton of very, VERY extremely useful info about that.
 

Dustyjeans

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Member For 4 Years
When talking mass above i meant to say when doing a FS. Sorry I left that out.

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whiteowl84

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N80 only heats faster on mechs or if used on regulated mods in conjunction with A1.
On regulated builds an all n80 build heats at the same speed as an A1 build of the same mass.
An n80 wrap definitely doesn't heat faster than the A1 core it's over...the wrap isn't part of the circuit and if it were it would still be in the thousands of ohms so it would still rely on the core heating it.

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champton

Bronze Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Very useful advice here. I probably won't be getting into building with ribbon yet, but it's good to know it's an option.

One more question, and this one's about battery rating. I have a 26650 battery for my Hohm Slice. The battery is rated for up to 51.6 amps. Does that mean I can safely build very low resistance coils (nothing below .1 ohms because it's a regulated box, I'm talking about .12 to .15) and safely vape at anything below 51.6 amps?

Sorry about going back to vaping 101 on you guys, I'm trying to figure out what the ratings on these beasts actually mean.
 
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KarmicRage

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At .1 ohms you would be drawing 42 amps so you would be well within the rating of the battery at .12-.15 ohms. A regulated box mod usually has a max discharge rate as well, so no matter if you build too low it simply won't fire.
9e4bab97770aaa55a45556f26cd12c4b.jpg


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champton

Bronze Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Yeah, I thought so, it's just that 51.6 amps seemed a bit dubious to me. I'm quite familiar with Ohm's law and everything, so I would definitely know if I was within the safe range. It's just that on these box mods, I always thought that the safety features only kicked in when you dropped below .1 ohms.
 

KarmicRage

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Sounds it to me as well but I'm no battery expert. I knew 26650 batteries had better amperage but I didn't think it was that good. Might want to check out Pegasus Vapor Academy on YouTube, I watched a video by him that put me off using the purple e fest batteries. Seemed to know what he was talking about.

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whiteowl84

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Very useful advice here. I probably won't be getting into building with ribbon yet, but it's good to know it's an option.

One more question, and this one's about battery rating. I have a 26650 battery for my Hohm Slice. The battery is rated for up to 51.6 amps. Does that mean I can safely build very low resistance coils (nothing below .1 ohms because it's a regulated box, I'm talking about .12 to .15) and safely vape at anything below 51.6 amps?

Sorry about going back to vaping 101 on you guys, I'm trying to figure out what the ratings on these beasts actually mean.
You can build anything on it. Since it's an FSK chip it'll probably fire under 0.1.
The resistance has no effect on the cell, only the wattage you set the mod too.
Only on mechs does resistance effect amperage.

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whiteowl84

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Also building with ribbon isn't that hard.
All the tutorials on YouTube make it harder than it needs to be.

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MWorthington

Silver Contributor
Member For 4 Years
ECF Refugee
Very useful advice here. I probably won't be getting into building with ribbon yet, but it's good to know it's an option.

One more question, and this one's about battery rating. I have a 26650 battery for my Hohm Slice. The battery is rated for up to 51.6 amps. Does that mean I can safely build very low resistance coils (nothing below .1 ohms because it's a regulated box, I'm talking about .12 to .15) and safely vape at anything below 51.6 amps?

Sorry about going back to vaping 101 on you guys, I'm trying to figure out what the ratings on these beasts actually mean.

The Hohm Slice is advertised to fire down to .000001 ohms. That's practically a dead short.

I don't believe there's a 26650 battery that will supply 51 amps continuous, SAFELY. That might be the pulse rating on it, which is possible - depending on which battery it is. I wouldn't take very long draws with it, and certainly wouldn't chain vape with it at that high of a current.
 

Carambrda

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Member For 5 Years
N80 only heats faster on mechs or if used on regulated mods in conjunction with A1.
On regulated builds an all n80 build heats at the same speed as an A1 build of the same mass.
An n80 wrap definitely doesn't heat faster than the A1 core it's over...the wrap isn't part of the circuit and if it were it would still be in the thousands of ohms so it would still rely on the core heating it.

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In a glow shot, yes, you can see the Ni80 wrap wire actually is darker than the cores after the coil starts to glow... it is clear also from Squidoode's video that I linked. But if you compare how fast the coil starts to glow on a regulated mod using the same wattage setting and same wire thicknesses, replacing only the Ni80 wrap wire with A1 for your comparison test, you'll see the Ni80 wrap is doing a very fine job making the coil glow faster. In addition, you can plot a measuring graph of how coil resistance changes over time during the ramp up period of a coil... see how the type of metal that you choose for your wrap wire does have a noticeable impact on this as well.
 

Carambrda

Platinum Contributor
ECF Refugee
Member For 5 Years
Very useful advice here. I probably won't be getting into building with ribbon yet, but it's good to know it's an option.

One more question, and this one's about battery rating. I have a 26650 battery for my Hohm Slice. The battery is rated for up to 51.6 amps. Does that mean I can safely build very low resistance coils (nothing below .1 ohms because it's a regulated box, I'm talking about .12 to .15) and safely vape at anything below 51.6 amps?

Sorry about going back to vaping 101 on you guys, I'm trying to figure out what the ratings on these beasts actually mean.
Page 9 of the user manual clearly explains that it is still possible to be dangerous if you don't know what you're doing... they call it "51% INSANE" and "MAXIMUM INSANITY" for a (probably very) good reason I guess.
:bliss:
http://hohmtech.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/SLICE_MANUAL.pdf
 

champton

Bronze Contributor
Member For 4 Years
The Hohm Slice is advertised to fire down to .000001 ohms. That's practically a dead short.

I don't believe there's a 26650 battery that will supply 51 amps continuous, SAFELY. That might be the pulse rating on it, which is possible - depending on which battery it is. I wouldn't take very long draws with it, and certainly wouldn't chain vape with it at that high of a current.

So you're saying that this is basically an unregged box. Glad I asked you guys then. Last thing I need is to have my hand blown off by a thermal runaway. :gaah:

I searched Google, and the max continuous discharge is 32.3 amps. 51.6 is indeed the max pulse rating. According to my math, I'd need to build a bit higher. Maybe .16 at the lowest end. That's just over 30 amps.
 
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whiteowl84

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In a glow shot, yes, you can see the Ni80 wrap wire actually is darker than the cores after the coil starts to glow... it is clear also from Squidoode's video that I linked. But if you compare how fast the coil starts to glow on a regulated mod using the same wattage setting and same wire thicknesses, replacing only the Ni80 wrap wire with A1 for your comparison test, you'll see the Ni80 wrap is doing a very fine job making the coil glow faster. In addition, you can plot a measuring graph of how coil resistance changes over time during the ramp up period of a coil... see how the type of metal that you choose for your wrap wire does have a noticeable impact on this as well.
I build alot. I actually see the wraps heat in person and I mix n80, SS, A1 and D pretty often so if one were heating faster I'd have probably noticed that some of my fuses were heating faster than the other.
If you don't believe me just make a clapton half n80 and half A1 and use an even number of wraps.
If anything A1 (7.1 grams/cm^3) should conduct heat faster than n80 (8.3 grams/cm^3) because n80 is more dense.

While the wrap has a slight impact on the resistance of a coil by raising the core's ID by raising it off the mandrel, the impact of the wrap's alloy is negligible. SS cores when hot don't rise in resistance enough to narrow the thousands of ohms difference between the wrap and the core so if SS doesn't then n80 and A1 definitely won't. The point being that the wrap is way too high for it to be conductive in a significant way.

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MWorthington

Silver Contributor
Member For 4 Years
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So you're saying that this is basically an unregged box. Glad I asked you guys then. Last thing I need is to have my hand blown off by a thermal runaway. :gaah:

I searched Google, and the max continuous discharge is 32.3 amps. 51.6 is indeed the max pulse rating. According to my math, I'd need to build a bit higher. Maybe .16 at the lowest end. That's just over 30 amps.

No, it not unregulated by a long shot, but it'll fire coils to make most mods cry for their mommy. :) I imagine you would have to be more careful when building especially if you're gonna run it at higher watts. My G2 will fire down to .007 but I only vape at 50 watts max so I don't really worry about it.
 

champton

Bronze Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Well I do fire at 101 watts just to get a warmer vape on my dessert juices. Apple pie is the absolute best for this, I suggest you try it. :)

I'm going to get a coconut cake one from Circus Cookie tomorrow that a friend of mine had me try. That one's supposed to be good warm also.

We use it for making staples.
Basically it just adds another shape to build with making extremely wide coils easier. Different builds are always going to have different characteristics down to how it's fused.
With only round wire you'd be really limited as to what you can build.

Since you've never used it before I'd get it from Coil Society. It's a hell of alot easier to work with.

That is a beast of a coil. I'm not going there yet though. I need to get my claptons down pat first.
 
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Carambrda

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Member For 5 Years
I build alot. I actually see the wraps heat in person and I mix n80, SS, A1 and D pretty often so if one were heating faster I'd have probably noticed that some of my fuses were heating faster than the other.
If you don't believe me just make a clapton half n80 and half A1 and use an even number of wraps.
If anything A1 (7.1 grams/cm^3) should conduct heat faster than n80 (8.3 grams/cm^3) because n80 is more dense.

While the wrap has a slight impact on the resistance of a coil by raising the core's ID by raising it off the mandrel, the impact of the wrap's alloy is negligible. SS cores when hot don't rise in resistance enough to narrow the thousands of ohms difference between the wrap and the core so if SS doesn't then n80 and A1 definitely won't. The point being that the wrap is way too high for it to be conductive in a significant way.

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I already did try it, the Ni80 wrap caused the clapton coil to heat up faster when compared to the A1 wrap... all else being equal. This was with an A1 core... the same thing happens with a fused clapton. I dunno why, but it really does.
 

whiteowl84

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So you're saying that this is basically an unregged box. Glad I asked you guys then. Last thing I need is to have my hand blown off by a thermal runaway. :gaah:

I searched Google, and the max continuous discharge is 32.3 amps. 51.6 is indeed the max pulse rating. According to my math, I'd need to build a bit higher. Maybe .16 at the lowest end. That's just over 30 amps.
I'm not sure why people keep posing resistance charts when talking about regulated mods. The wattage set on the mod determines the amperage pulled on the cell.
100w at 0.2ohm will hit the battery exactly the same way as 100w at 0.1ohm.
There is nothing you could possibly do with a 20a battery on that mod to make it explode. 100w is only pulling about 25a off that cell and the CDR is CONTINUOUS meaning you'd have to fire at 100w for several minutes before it might be an issue on a 20a battery. Since the mod has a 10 second cut off you could get double that off a 20a cell and still be fine.

If you want to get better at clapton just start making aliens. You'll get better at both at the same time.

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Carambrda

Platinum Contributor
ECF Refugee
Member For 5 Years
I'm not sure why people keep posing resistance charts when talking about regulated mods. The wattage set on the mod determines the amperage pulled on the cell.
100w at 0.2ohm will hit the battery exactly the same way as 100w at 0.1ohm.
There is nothing you could possibly do with a 20a battery on that mod to make it explode. 100w is only pulling about 25a off that cell and the CDR is CONTINUOUS meaning you'd have to fire at 100w for several minutes before it might be an issue on a 20a battery. Since the mod has a 10 second cut off you could get double that off a 20a cell and still be fine.

If you want to get better at clapton just start making aliens. You'll get better at both at the same time.

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Yeah, I don't get it either. Everything people need to know about battery safety is on Mooch's blog... his MVA ratings are there because if something happens with the mod this can in some situations cause the mod to start auto-firing (i.e. the puff cut-off timer function no longer is working) so when that happens the malfunctioning mod will drain the battery continuously. But a lot of people still don't seem to understand, or want to understand, that it's this MVA rating that is the true important rating in determining safety, not the CDR. Similarly, a lot of people are creating their own kooky version of the safety theory by simply replacing "the maximum wattage your mod is capable of " with "the wattage that you vape at". Almost nobody cares to explain it properly. Oh well... the FDA will soon ban almost everything anyway so that the idiots will then finally be safe. It's just very sad.
 

whiteowl84

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They won't shut down vaping. xxxx has been illegal for a looooong time and you can still buy everything you need to enjoy or produce it. And that's assuming they even get that far.
It's stupid they even make a fuss about it though.
It's pretty sad when the media is so starved for anything real that they'll try to poke holes in something that's perfectly safe.
Yeah I'm sure a handful of tards blew their faces off but it's nothing compared to the ones who did it with other Lithium powered tech like phones and flashlights.

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Carambrda

Platinum Contributor
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Member For 5 Years
They won't shut down vaping. xxxx has been illegal for a looooong time and you can still buy everything you need to enjoy or produce it. And that's assuming they even get that far.
It's stupid they even make a fuss about it though.
It's pretty sad when the media is so starved for anything real that they'll try to poke holes in something that's perfectly safe.
Yeah I'm sure a handful of tards blew their faces off but it's nothing compared to the ones who did it with other Lithium powered tech like phones and flashlights.

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Exactly. Whatever overdone regulations they are going to be forcing on people will still only be equally as effective as the Volstead Act so it's all about convincing the electorate with anti-vaping propaganda in order for them to justify re-routing the cash flow straight through their own deep pockets.
 

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