So I've looked everywhere and it seems like nobody can give a straight answer. I've jut bought the new Voopoo Drag 157W and the Goon rda. I'm running 0.17ohm with a dual coil build using two Samsung 25R5. Is it really safe? I've stopped using it for the last 3 days because i got scared and i just quited smoking so I'm getting cravings again
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Regulated Mods and Battery Safety
- Thread starter fabios69
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SMOKIE
THE MODFATHER
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Yes it is safe! Most regulated mods have all kinds of protection built in the chip. Yours has the below protection.
- Min Atomizer Resistance: 0.05ohm
- Short Circuit Protection
- Over-Temperature Protection
- Battery Reverse Protection
- Output Over-Current Protection
- OVercharge Protection
- Over Discharge Protection
The calculator below says you should have 31 Vaping Amp safety with that setup if you actually vape at the 157 watt full power. Mooch only gives the ones you are using a 25 MVA.
http://www.myvaporstore.com/ohms-calculator-for-vape-safety-a/292.htm
http://www.myvaporstore.com/ohms-calculator-for-vape-safety-a/292.htm
SMOKIE
THE MODFATHER
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@fabios69 If any of those are too low do not worry the mod will not work or fire so once again your Safe. Go, and enjoy your vape.
True on most regulated mods.
True on all REGULATED mods, sweetie.
As claimed by manufacturers. Thank goodness this is more accurate than TC with major brands. Wouldn't want to press my luck with something on Alibiba made only for the Chinese market.
I should have said nearly all.
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The Voopoo Drag 157W tells you what is the recommended wattage for your atomizer, and sets it for you automatically.
ok first off the calculator is useless for a regulated mod
there is a thread somewhere that explains this in great detail
but for mech mods you use ohms lawfor regulated vw mods you use what is referred to as watts law which in this application is
wattage setting/low battery cut off voltage/mod efficiency
so most mods cut off around 6v some a little higher 6.4v most mods have an efficiency of 90%
so 157w/6v/90%
so at 157 watts when the batteries are drianed you need 29amps
you batteries are 20ish amps
but you can pulse them higher
but at full charge 8.4v
you are only pulling about 20.8 amps which is fine
now at 120watts at low voltage cut off your at 22.2 amps which is still fine on a 25r
so if your going to be using this thing above 120 watts switch your batteries out earlier like at 3/4 discharge to be safe or get 30 amp batteries
there is a thread somewhere that explains this in great detail
but for mech mods you use ohms lawfor regulated vw mods you use what is referred to as watts law which in this application is
wattage setting/low battery cut off voltage/mod efficiency
so most mods cut off around 6v some a little higher 6.4v most mods have an efficiency of 90%
so 157w/6v/90%
so at 157 watts when the batteries are drianed you need 29amps
you batteries are 20ish amps
but you can pulse them higher
but at full charge 8.4v
you are only pulling about 20.8 amps which is fine
now at 120watts at low voltage cut off your at 22.2 amps which is still fine on a 25r
so if your going to be using this thing above 120 watts switch your batteries out earlier like at 3/4 discharge to be safe or get 30 amp batteries
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Forgive me, but please explain why it is unsafe to use the batteries when it is below 3/4 discharge? I have never heard of this...
ok ill try again
i am not the best one at explaining this
regulated vw mods do not care about the ohms of your coil period they draw the same amps from the battery regardless of the coil
what determines the amp draw on the battery in a regulated vw mod is 2 things basically the wattage setting and the voltage of the batteries
WHY??? im sure theres a lot of technical electronical reasons, I do not know but i have read enough everywhere to know this is how it works. theres a huge thread somewhere on here about thsi very topic that explains in great detail how this works, im giving you the very very very short version
so basically the higher the watts and the lower the volts the more amps are drawn from the battery
25rs are good at 20amps but you can go slightly higher like 25 for short pulses. in fact you can pulse it higher, but the concern comes form how much time between pulses you give the battery to cool down on weather or not it is safe. the concern gets worse if something goes wrong with the mod and it autofires. if it does this on a setting that is higher then the recommend amp rating of the battery, they could and probably will vent
but many will argue if you know what your doing you can easily draw more amps form a battery then is recommended for vaping purposes. i am not going to argue with that
i am simply addressing how to determine the amp draw of your battery on a regulated vw mod.
so as i said its all about the wattage setting and volts in you battery
so you mod can go up to 157 watts
your batteries at full charge are 4.2volts each and you add that together since the mod is wired in series. so you start at 8.4v at full charge
most mods will say the battery is drained at 3v per cell some are a little higher at 3.2v so once again add together for 6-6.4v
so your batteries operate in a range of 6v to 8.4 volts
now there is a 3rd factor called efficiency which take si nto acct the wiring and so forth in the mod which causes voltage sag meaning that USUALLY the full voltage of the battery does not reach the coil. so even though your batteries are at full charge 8.4v they are operating slightly lower
most mods have an effeiciency of about 90%. some are better some slightly worse.
so the formula is
wattage setting of the mod divided by current voltage of the batteries divided by mod efficiency
so at 157 watts and full charge
157/8.4/90%= 20.767 amps
now at low battery cut off of 6v
157/6/90%=29.074 amps
now at 3/4 discharge approx. 6.6v
157/6.6/90%=26.43 amps
im not going to tell you if pulling 29+amps from a set of 25rs is bad. it can be done safely. but it can also cause them to vent. the mod is not necesssarily going to stop the batteries from venting. it can not read the internal temp of the battery to know the battery is about to vent. but with the 10 second cutoff most mods have that is often enough to stop you from holding that fire button in too long to cause the batteries to vent usually the issue occurs when things go wrong. board misfuctions, you have the mod turned on in your pocket and the button keeps getting hit and released over and over, etc.
you decide for yourself what you consider to be safe. maybe go do a google search for mooch and read some of his stuff and watch some you tube videos where he is interviewed to understand what is and aint safe
use the formula i gave you to figure out amp draw and you will know what your amp draw is for your mod and make your own decision
me i never vape much above 50 watts so i care less about this stuff any more. at 50 watts i never draw above 10 amps from a battery and all my batteries are rated at at least 20amps. the concern is pushing 2 battery mods above 120ish watts is where you start getting into the debate of how safe it is
given the fact there are so many that do this now you can think there is some safety features or magic going on in side your mod to stop it from being unsafe. the truth is there' s not. the truth is the manufacturer's are recommending you use 20amp+ batteries, hoping you do so,, because they know 20amp batteries under most normal vaping circumstances should (keyword should) be fine pulsing at 25-35 amps. but the mod doesn't know what batteries you are using. put some 10 amp batteries in your mod and set it 157 watts and chain vape it till its at low battery cutoff. they will most likely vent at some point before you hit low battery cutoff because they simply can not take being pulsed at double to triple their recommend pulse rating continuously while you chain vape. The mod wont stop them from venting. it has no way of detecting their temp or when they are venting. that's not to say one could not use the full discharge of good 10 map batteries at 157 watts and do it in such a way that the batteries do not vent. but most people are not paying enough attention to the battery temp to know how hot they are at any given time.
my personal opinion is your good using you mod at 157 watts with your batteries. but if you chain vape it, open the battery door and feel the batteries with you hand, if they are very hot stop using them till they cool down. and if you like to vape above 120watts be mindful you are pulling more amps from the batteries then the manufacturer recommends once the batteries discharge past about 6.6v and if something goes wrong with the mod and causes the batteries to vent...its your own fault.
i am not the best one at explaining this
regulated vw mods do not care about the ohms of your coil period they draw the same amps from the battery regardless of the coil
what determines the amp draw on the battery in a regulated vw mod is 2 things basically the wattage setting and the voltage of the batteries
WHY??? im sure theres a lot of technical electronical reasons, I do not know but i have read enough everywhere to know this is how it works. theres a huge thread somewhere on here about thsi very topic that explains in great detail how this works, im giving you the very very very short version
so basically the higher the watts and the lower the volts the more amps are drawn from the battery
25rs are good at 20amps but you can go slightly higher like 25 for short pulses. in fact you can pulse it higher, but the concern comes form how much time between pulses you give the battery to cool down on weather or not it is safe. the concern gets worse if something goes wrong with the mod and it autofires. if it does this on a setting that is higher then the recommend amp rating of the battery, they could and probably will vent
but many will argue if you know what your doing you can easily draw more amps form a battery then is recommended for vaping purposes. i am not going to argue with that
i am simply addressing how to determine the amp draw of your battery on a regulated vw mod.
so as i said its all about the wattage setting and volts in you battery
so you mod can go up to 157 watts
your batteries at full charge are 4.2volts each and you add that together since the mod is wired in series. so you start at 8.4v at full charge
most mods will say the battery is drained at 3v per cell some are a little higher at 3.2v so once again add together for 6-6.4v
so your batteries operate in a range of 6v to 8.4 volts
now there is a 3rd factor called efficiency which take si nto acct the wiring and so forth in the mod which causes voltage sag meaning that USUALLY the full voltage of the battery does not reach the coil. so even though your batteries are at full charge 8.4v they are operating slightly lower
most mods have an effeiciency of about 90%. some are better some slightly worse.
so the formula is
wattage setting of the mod divided by current voltage of the batteries divided by mod efficiency
so at 157 watts and full charge
157/8.4/90%= 20.767 amps
now at low battery cut off of 6v
157/6/90%=29.074 amps
now at 3/4 discharge approx. 6.6v
157/6.6/90%=26.43 amps
im not going to tell you if pulling 29+amps from a set of 25rs is bad. it can be done safely. but it can also cause them to vent. the mod is not necesssarily going to stop the batteries from venting. it can not read the internal temp of the battery to know the battery is about to vent. but with the 10 second cutoff most mods have that is often enough to stop you from holding that fire button in too long to cause the batteries to vent usually the issue occurs when things go wrong. board misfuctions, you have the mod turned on in your pocket and the button keeps getting hit and released over and over, etc.
you decide for yourself what you consider to be safe. maybe go do a google search for mooch and read some of his stuff and watch some you tube videos where he is interviewed to understand what is and aint safe
use the formula i gave you to figure out amp draw and you will know what your amp draw is for your mod and make your own decision
me i never vape much above 50 watts so i care less about this stuff any more. at 50 watts i never draw above 10 amps from a battery and all my batteries are rated at at least 20amps. the concern is pushing 2 battery mods above 120ish watts is where you start getting into the debate of how safe it is
given the fact there are so many that do this now you can think there is some safety features or magic going on in side your mod to stop it from being unsafe. the truth is there' s not. the truth is the manufacturer's are recommending you use 20amp+ batteries, hoping you do so,, because they know 20amp batteries under most normal vaping circumstances should (keyword should) be fine pulsing at 25-35 amps. but the mod doesn't know what batteries you are using. put some 10 amp batteries in your mod and set it 157 watts and chain vape it till its at low battery cutoff. they will most likely vent at some point before you hit low battery cutoff because they simply can not take being pulsed at double to triple their recommend pulse rating continuously while you chain vape. The mod wont stop them from venting. it has no way of detecting their temp or when they are venting. that's not to say one could not use the full discharge of good 10 map batteries at 157 watts and do it in such a way that the batteries do not vent. but most people are not paying enough attention to the battery temp to know how hot they are at any given time.
my personal opinion is your good using you mod at 157 watts with your batteries. but if you chain vape it, open the battery door and feel the batteries with you hand, if they are very hot stop using them till they cool down. and if you like to vape above 120watts be mindful you are pulling more amps from the batteries then the manufacturer recommends once the batteries discharge past about 6.6v and if something goes wrong with the mod and causes the batteries to vent...its your own fault.
Does the Smoant Battlestar and/or Charon do this or is this a Genie chip capability?
Good explanation Matt
I've got a couple more thoughts to what you've already said. When a 20 amp battery has 25 - 29 amp drawn from it the voltage will really sag. Most of our mods will stop running when the battery voltage under load goes down too far. That should keep us pretty safe and it is also why you're not going to get much battery run time per charge out of these batts.
The other thing is these batteries will age really fast with that much current draw on them all the time.
If I were going to vape at over about 120 watts for any length of time I would get a 3 battery mod.
Because in a VW device when the battery voltage drops, the amp draw on them increases to keep the watts at what it's set at. This only becomes a concern when you're drawing high amps from a battery.
The duration of each pulse also matters a lot. Short pulses don't heat up the battery as much as long ones do, all else being equal. Going above the MVA (Maximum Vaping Amps) on a regulated mod is asking for trouble because you're dealing with electronics so there generally is no easy way of telling that it won't start to suddenly auto fire. You just simply never know until you know. But going above the MVA on a mech mod is not necessarily always asking for trouble. (That's because, on some mech mods, the fire button is designed and constructed in such a way that it doesn't get stuck easily, albeit you still have to know what you're doing with regards to battery safety─part of which is to understand about pulse duration in conjunction with time between pulses and how that affects what's happening to the intestines of the battery.)
Some regulated mods give you the option to adjust the maximum power output of the mod. For example, in ArcticFox firmware (by using the accompanying NToolbox software) on my Reuleaux RX300 it is possible for me to change the maximum output from 400 watts to something much lower, thus providing an extra layer of protection. Wereas some other mods (some models by Smok, for example) are notorious for occasionally jumping to maximum power for no apparent reason at all. Further, the amps [that a regulated mod draws from the batteries] go up gradually step by step as the batteries get discharged a little with every puff, so, if I find that my calculations are telling me the amps tend to get a little too high for what batteries I use, then in ArcticFox there's also the option for me to increase the voltage cut-off of my mod from 3.0 volts per battery to something a little bit higher. Doing that gives me yet another extra layer of protection. I've actually set mine to 3.14 volts and left it that way. It was easy as Pi.
Some regulated mods give you the option to adjust the maximum power output of the mod. For example, in ArcticFox firmware (by using the accompanying NToolbox software) on my Reuleaux RX300 it is possible for me to change the maximum output from 400 watts to something much lower, thus providing an extra layer of protection. Wereas some other mods (some models by Smok, for example) are notorious for occasionally jumping to maximum power for no apparent reason at all. Further, the amps [that a regulated mod draws from the batteries] go up gradually step by step as the batteries get discharged a little with every puff, so, if I find that my calculations are telling me the amps tend to get a little too high for what batteries I use, then in ArcticFox there's also the option for me to increase the voltage cut-off of my mod from 3.0 volts per battery to something a little bit higher. Doing that gives me yet another extra layer of protection. I've actually set mine to 3.14 volts and left it that way. It was easy as Pi.