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Small diameter and hard wicked. Based on Morten Oen's work

Zhurrie

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Not sure if this has been heavily discussed or not but after spending a fair bit of time doing my own research and testing and following Morten Oen's extensive work, the science all seems to check out and the results have been very good. Oen basically worked out that the smaller inner diameter coil and thickest wicking possible results in the most vapor production, best battery life, and least issues with spitback. This kind of goes counter to a lot of trends, but is all based on solid theory and concepts and, more importantly, proven through testing. Basically the smaller area inside the coil means that it can vaporize the juice easier and the tighter wicking actually wicks better and saturates well.

I started with 3.0mm ID coils for a good while but started using 2.5mm before diving deep into it all. I recently started building 2.0mm and really cramming the wick in there and I have definitely extended my battery life by almost double (single 18650 mech mods mainly) and in some cases ended up with bigger clouds and more flavor.

Has anyone else gone this route? I pretty much work in a bubble with no one to bounce ideas and theories off of so I turn to you, interwebz.
 

bobnat

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Not sure if this has been heavily discussed or not but after spending a fair bit of time doing my own research and testing and following Morten Oen's extensive work, the science all seems to check out and the results have been very good. Oen basically worked out that the smaller inner diameter coil and thickest wicking possible results in the most vapor production, best battery life, and least issues with spitback. This kind of goes counter to a lot of trends, but is all based on solid theory and concepts and, more importantly, proven through testing. Basically the smaller area inside the coil means that it can vaporize the juice easier and the tighter wicking actually wicks better and saturates well.

I started with 3.0mm ID coils for a good while but started using 2.5mm before diving deep into it all. I recently started building 2.0mm and really cramming the wick in there and I have definitely extended my battery life by almost double (single 18650 mech mods mainly) and in some cases ended up with bigger clouds and more flavor.

Has anyone else gone this route? I pretty much work in a bubble with no one to bounce ideas and theories off of so I turn to you, interwebz.

I normally use 3 and 3.5mm id and tight wicking. Just for giggles I'll try 2 and 2.5mm the next time I change coils in my RDAs.
 

PoppaVic

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"..all based on solid theory and concepts and, more importantly, proven through testing.." #1 - no link - not sure wtf you are referencing.

#2, I started out at 1mm and then 2mm coils. So, who started what? Rebuilding Vivi Nova heads, TC3 and such? OMG, the joys of a SS mesh wick in a bottom-coil clearo..

Battery life?? We used to vape at 10w and under... Just had to wait awhile.


If you have links, share. The conversation is not new. Coils, batteries, Best, Flavor, Clouds - years of fun.

(For some reason I want to say Decades, rather than Years - but, hell - we are moving faster than CPU's ;-)
 

Pastorfuzz

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Not sure if this has been heavily discussed or not but after spending a fair bit of time doing my own research and testing and following Morten Oen's extensive work, the science all seems to check out and the results have been very good. Oen basically worked out that the smaller inner diameter coil and thickest wicking possible results in the most vapor production, best battery life, and least issues with spitback. This kind of goes counter to a lot of trends, but is all based on solid theory and concepts and, more importantly, proven through testing. Basically the smaller area inside the coil means that it can vaporize the juice easier and the tighter wicking actually wicks better and saturates well.

I started with 3.0mm ID coils for a good while but started using 2.5mm before diving deep into it all. I recently started building 2.0mm and really cramming the wick in there and I have definitely extended my battery life by almost double (single 18650 mech mods mainly) and in some cases ended up with bigger clouds and more flavor.

Has anyone else gone this route? I pretty much work in a bubble with no one to bounce ideas and theories off of so I turn to you, interwebz.
I do small diameter on some atty's but I never tried the tight cotton route.
Cotton is cheap so i'll give it a try.
Oen's video almost put me to sleep though.
This guy needs a Red Bull
 

Zhurrie

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they were called micro coils....

Everything old is new again :) yes, basic old micros. They aren't flashy or exotic but I get double the battery life and better flavor now than ever. Bigger and more fancy coils still have a place, it is all about what each person is after. I just really appreciated his more scientific approach and when I saw the same results, it was impossible to deny.
 

Zhurrie

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"..all based on solid theory and concepts and, more importantly, proven through testing.." #1 - no link - not sure wtf you are referencing.

#2, I started out at 1mm and then 2mm coils. So, who started what? Rebuilding Vivi Nova heads, TC3 and such? OMG, the joys of a SS mesh wick in a bottom-coil clearo..

Battery life?? We used to vape at 10w and under... Just had to wait awhile.


If you have links, share. The conversation is not new. Coils, batteries, Best, Flavor, Clouds - years of fun.

(For some reason I want to say Decades, rather than Years - but, hell - we are moving faster than CPU's ;-)

Morten Oen has a YT channel, check out his videos on hard wicking and dual vs. single coil: https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCMS4GxDHLPvXr5oQrthU60A
 

Pastorfuzz

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Everything old is new again :) yes, basic old micros. They aren't flashy or exotic but I get double the battery life and better flavor now than ever. Bigger and more fancy coils still have a place, it is all about what each person is after. I just really appreciated his more scientific approach and when I saw the same results, it was impossible to deny.
I agree about the flavor on micro coils.
A friend of mine sold me most all of his old 22 drippers for a song. All authentic.
I got some RJ Mod Cats, Zenith V2's and so on.
I put a Cats together a few weeks ago and can't put it down. This is a flavorful dripper.
I've only done a 2mm 26g SS single wire dual coil in [email protected] ohm. Haven't tried 4 coils yet. Don't have to. Great as it is between 25 - 30 watts.
He said these things were pretty expensive a few years ago. I know i'm not giving them up.
 

Pastorfuzz

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"..all based on solid theory and concepts and, more importantly, proven through testing.." #1 - no link - not sure wtf you are referencing.

#2, I started out at 1mm and then 2mm coils. So, who started what? Rebuilding Vivi Nova heads, TC3 and such? OMG, the joys of a SS mesh wick in a bottom-coil clearo..

Battery life?? We used to vape at 10w and under... Just had to wait awhile.


If you have links, share. The conversation is not new. Coils, batteries, Best, Flavor, Clouds - years of fun.

(For some reason I want to say Decades, rather than Years - but, hell - we are moving faster than CPU's ;-)
The conversation is not new i'm sure, but as I just started vaping a year and a half ago, i'm still learning.
This OP was helpful
 
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PoppaVic

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Fairly interesting. Not really a suprise about 2mm, and.. I suspect the vertical "hard wicking" issue is capillary-action - trees manage it ;-)

I'll have to give it a whirl - in something I can rewick w/o tank-emptying ;-)
 

zephyr

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Not gonna lie, I was a little scared to try this, but put a tad extra cotton in the wick ports and by golly it's tasty, small clouds of course but I'm excited to see how it lasts

1.4mm 11 wraps, 2x30 fused claptons

IMG_20180401_123752~2.jpg
IMG_20180401_124624~2.jpg
IMG_20180401_125211-756x1008.jpg

I'm not sure how to pack any more wick than I did into the coils lol

Btw, I did test this with just a bit of liquid before filling up
 

zephyr

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What exactly do you mean by this?


I just put enough liquid in the tank to test the vaping and wicking to make sure it wouldnt leak or get stupid dry hits, Then I filled the tank to the tippy top :)
 

zephyr

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Hey, I was running this at 35 watts but took it all the way up to 55.5, it's cloudy man! And not dry, either!
 

PoppaVic

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Holy Frioles .. I wound a 7 loop, 0.35Ω 24awg SS316L coil for the Wasp (backwards, of course). Wicked it like Oen suggested, tight as I could manage.. NO SPITBACK. Vaping beautifully.

I have been trying every DT I own, including some long carto types, to try to avoid the burnt-lips issue.. Hah! NO DT being sported here. Weirdness.
 

JuicyLucy

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This is exactly how I learned how to build back in the day, lol

Remember building on the Challice III???
 

The Cromwell

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Ahh the days before massive Grrgoyle hoofed claptonized alien coils at 120 watts...
so much has been lost in the race to the biggest most powerful game.
I vape .4 26 ga SS316l 3mm coils in Subtank Mini V2 RBA a very nice very tasty vape at 16 watts.

The trick is to match the coil style, size, etc to the atomizer being used.

btw I am a round wire only user.
parallels is a fancy as I get.
 

St.Roostifer

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Not gonna lie, I was a little scared to try this, but put a tad extra cotton in the wick ports and by golly it's tasty, small clouds of course but I'm excited to see how it lasts

1.4mm 11 wraps, 2x30 fused claptons

View attachment 107723
View attachment 107724
View attachment 107725

I'm not sure how to pack any more wick than I did into the coils lol

Btw, I did test this with just a bit of liquid before filling up
Twinsies! They are so cute and adorable. Rip would be proud of you Meg! :D

Seriously though, how's the flavor in comparison to the ID you usually use. I am curious about this.

I am confused on this though. I have seen some more recent videos from Oen where he used ID's from 3.5-6mm. I must have missed the video where he speaks about smaller coils.
 
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PoppaVic

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I believe he selected 2mm as a multi-sample test-size, and it vindicated a theory he had about juice-use and battery life.
 

The Cromwell

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I believe he selected 2mm as a multi-sample test-size, and it vindicated a theory he had about juice-use and battery life.
Yep with increased coil mass comes increased wattage and also juice consumption.
It is all about how one wants to vape.
Me? I seldom go above 30 watts or so.
And 16W max in my Subtank Mini RBA's.

I vape my Wasp Nano with a 3mm 26GA SS316L paralell coil at .34 ohms and 26-30W.
I use a Driptip and have no spitback or hot vape issues.

Is there one RIGHT way to vape?
Nope.
 

PoppaVic

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Oddly, yeah.. I finished a morning of his videos and tore apart the Wasp that was bugging me. Single 26awg coil, 0.35Ω, and really crammed a wad of cotton thru it.. Amazingly, no spitback, no overheating, no burned lips - no driptip. Only diff is I told the gbox 200 to use 60w if apropos. Working just as well at even 40w, but I am still running about 500F tc-mode.
 

jwill

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Getting back to simple basics makes me want to break out the old Smok X-Pure's and build them up. Those things were super flavorful. Going to have to get a new magnifying glass to build them though.
 

zephyr

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Yep and I remember rebuilding Kanger T3S and Evod coils with cotton instead of silica.
Fairly tasty at around 7-8 watts as I recall.

I had a T3D because Clouds bro, Clouds (that I rebuilt)

:teehee:

I enjoy Oen's videos and agree with his ideas on airflow. However, it's only fair to point out that Oen only uses rdas.

I am confused on the recommended coil size though. I've seen videos from him that have used coils anywhere from 3.5-6mm depending on the build space available in the rda.

Twinsies! They are so cute and adorable. Rip would be proud of you Meg! :D

Seriously though, how's the flavor in comparison to the ID you usually use. I am curious about this.

I am confused on this though. I have seen some more recent videos from Oen where he used ID's from 3.5-6mm. I must have missed the video where he speaks about smaller coils.

No difference in flavor that I can perceive, I'm more curious about coil/wick lifespan being so thin like this
 
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zephyr

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I'm going to try this in an RDA, with heavier wire 3x26, wire thicker than I normally vape with, in an atomizer designed for much wider coils

(Going to drip on this, not use the tank section)
IMG_20180401_201912~2.jpg
 

uansari1

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Holy Frioles .. I wound a 7 loop, 0.35Ω 24awg SS316L coil for the Wasp (backwards, of course). Wicked it like Oen suggested, tight as I could manage.. NO SPITBACK. Vaping beautifully.

I have been trying every DT I own, including some long carto types, to try to avoid the burnt-lips issue.. Hah! NO DT being sported here. Weirdness.

What diameter is the coil? With the info provided, steam engine tells me it’s a 3mm.
 

The Cromwell

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Thanks, I’ll be ordering one of those to try. I have been looking for a black one for my Wasp too, though I’ve finally got the technique down somewhat to keep from getting s mouthful of juice lol.
These are my fav black ones. I also use them on my tanks and other RDA's.
https://www.fasttech.com/p/5213000

Any standard 510 DT will technically fit the Wasp nano. how they look and perform is another matter.
 
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PoppaVic

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What diameter is the coil? With the info provided, steam engine tells me it’s a 3mm.
oh, I went with 2.5mm - just to sorta' go retro ;-) Didn't even bother to dryfire/pulse it in: lockdown, wick hard, and juice it. Took about 6 hours to polish off the half hugo-bottle in the Gbox, and then I just swapped the cells over to the Vt133 and refilled the Rose v3 for the rest of the evening ;-)
 

bobnat

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Ahh the days before massive Grrgoyle hoofed claptonized alien coils at 120 watts...
so much has been lost in the race to the biggest most powerful game.
I vape .4 26 ga SS316l 3mm coils in Subtank Mini V2 RBA a very nice very tasty vape at 16 watts.

The trick is to match the coil style, size, etc to the atomizer being used.

btw I am a round wire only user.
parallels is a fancy as I get.

I've read your opinion on this many times. So, 2 weeks ago I decided to give it a try. I made a 26 ga parallel @ 7 wraps and put it into an RDA. It works great and I can't tell the difference between it and multi-core claptons. :cheers:
 

zephyr

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2ml? Oh that's just wrong. Any burning in the middle of the wicks?

No, no burning wicks, but was making me cough so I had to check it early... maybe my fault for trying 55 watts, one dry spot in a long skinny coil like this and things will go downhill very fast

I put the same build in but with a 3 mm ID (same wire though), and honestly it tastes better. But this atomizer is designed for bigger diameter coils, and my juice is great at 55 watts

was a fun experiment, I still have the one in a dripper I'll be playing with today - I wicked it with some old japanese cotton though, and that's exactly what it tasted like last night
 

jwill

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No, no burning wicks, but was making me cough so I had to check it early... maybe my fault for trying 55 watts, one dry spot in a long skinny coil like this and things will go downhill very fast

I put the same build in but with a 3 mm ID (same wire though), and honestly it tastes better. But this atomizer is designed for bigger diameter coils, and my juice is great at 55 watts

was a fun experiment, I still have the one in a dripper I'll be playing with today - I wicked it with some old japanese cotton though, and that's exactly what it tasted like last night


This is likely a case of coil mass versus wicking material volume (based on nothing other than just thinking about it some). I am surprised you could even wick that monster in such a small diameter and lengthy coil.

You should take up ship building in bottles. You would likely be very good at it.
 

zephyr

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This is likely a case of coil mass versus wicking material volume (based on nothing other than just thinking about it some). I am surprised you could even wick that monster in such a small diameter and lengthy coil.

You should take up ship building in bottles. You would likely be very good at it.


This is way off topic but I actually like that idea. I am big into pirate stuff, old ships, etc, never even considered that hobby until now.

Edit: With a 3 year old, I better install a vault or safe room in my house, first
 

St.Roostifer

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No, no burning wicks, but was making me cough so I had to check it early... maybe my fault for trying 55 watts, one dry spot in a long skinny coil like this and things will go downhill very fast

I put the same build in but with a 3 mm ID (same wire though), and honestly it tastes better. But this atomizer is designed for bigger diameter coils, and my juice is great at 55 watts

was a fun experiment, I still have the one in a dripper I'll be playing with today - I wicked it with some old japanese cotton though, and that's exactly what it tasted like last night
Yeah too much can go wrong with such a long skinny coil like that. Might work better on an rda with the Cyclops airflow slots.

Did you wick the 3mm the same way, tight with the cotton?

Kinda funny. You moved back up to 3mm while I just moved down to 3mm. :teehee:
 

jwill

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This is way off topic but I actually like that idea. I am big into pirate stuff, old ships, etc, never even considered that hobby until now.

Edit: With a 3 year old, I better install a vault or safe room in my house, first

I apologize in advance if you lose the next several years years of your life building ships. :)
 

zephyr

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Yeah too much can go wrong with such a long skinny coil like that. Might work better on an rda with the Cyclops airflow slots.

Did you wick the 3mm the same way, tight with the cotton?

Kinda funny. You moved back up to 3mm while I just moved down to 3mm. :teehee:

Nawp, went with a lighter wick. Experimenting over, for now :teehee:


Compensating for small id with longer coil which air isn't hitting. Need to use smaller wire or switch to kanthal so you can keep coil the right width


All kanthal my man, 2x30 gauge and wrap is 40 awg Kanthal D which colors a bit. The part that got dark first is the part that gets the most air, interesting eh?

I Will be using these tiny coils in MTL stuff though, got two more 1.4mm tiny coils to install later
 

zephyr

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Morten Oen has a YT channel, check out his videos on hard wicking and dual vs. single coil: https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCMS4GxDHLPvXr5oQrthU60A


Now that I have time to watch these videos, I love it already. I have a soft spot in my tiny black heart for Norwegians, especially the kind that look like they enjoy metal


"Nimwits or dumbskulls" lol :)

My name means 'me' in Norsk...cool huh?
 
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St.Roostifer

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Nawp, went with a lighter wick. Experimenting over, for now :teehee:





All kanthal my man, 2x30 gauge and wrap is 40 awg Kanthal D which colors a bit. The part that got dark first is the part that gets the most air, interesting eh?

I Will be using these tiny coils in MTL stuff though, got two more 1.4mm tiny coils to install later
I've experimented with tighter wicking in the past and when I'd pull the wick the center of it was not as saturated as the rest of the wick. It just looked like juice had a hard time saturating the tight wick. Similar to how packing too much wick into the wicking holes of an rta will choke the juice flow off to the coil.

I do enjoy Oen's videos and like that he thinks outside the box. His opening words always make me smile and laugh.
 

The Cromwell

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And just what each person considers a tight wick can vary.
And using cotton pads(KGD) or strips (CBV2) will also make a difference.
 

Zhurrie

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Anecdotal, but what I found from my own experiments is that Oen is correct in the hard wicking, no fluffing the ends, not removing the top/bottom "skin" of the cotton, and not rolling the cotton tightly but more just compressing it in regards to good wicking of the juice and WAY reduced spitback or popping. The smaller diameter coil (I've only gone down to 2.0mm ID) is more about efficiency than anything, better battery life, great flavor since more juice is being vaporized, and the same if not more vapor production than any other builds I've tried.

As @The Cromwell has mentioned, that doesn't mean it is the only correct way. It is just the most correct way to accomplish those specific goals. If those aren't your goals or they aren't as heavily weighted in order of importance, then by all means go with what works for you. For me, I prefer cooler vapes and want flavor over clouds and the most battery life I can get on single 18650 unregulated/mech mods. Simple 24/26g round wire (SS and Kanthal) micro coils in the 2mm ID range with pretty tight wicking have blown me away and all while getting almost exactly 2x the battery life.
 

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