Stainless Steel vs kanthal and a diy fluid question.

[mchaggis79]

It's finally time for me to buy more wire as I finally finished off this spool of 28 gauge kanthal which I've been twisting and running dual coils in my billow v3. I'm debating on trying stainless steel, but I don't have any experience with it. My mod is a SMYSDNA 75 so it can run temp control or regular mode. I'm more than comfortable with twisted 28 gauge coils, but I read that stainless makes a better tasting vape and it may have less health effects than using kanthal. Can I still make twisted 28 gauge coils with stainless or is that a big no no? should I take this plunge into stainless land or just stay where I'm comfortable?

On another note I've been making my own fluid for years now so I may be set in the old ways of using PG and VG in every juice. Anymore with RTAs like a Billow v3 and others where juice flow isn't an issue as it used to be is there really much point anymore in using PG at all? I'm not even sure anymore what it does besides makes your fluid a little hotter and possibly add a little throat hit. I keep hearing people sing the praises of max VG recipes so what's the point in continuing to use PG in any recipe?

 

[pulsevape]

It's finally time for me to buy more wire as I finally finished off this spool of 28 gauge kanthal which I've been twisting and running dual coils in my billow v3. I'm debating on trying stainless steel, but I don't have any experience with it. My mod is a SMYSDNA 75 so it can run temp control or regular mode. I'm more than comfortable with twisted 28 gauge coils, but I read that stainless makes a better tasting vape and it may have less health effects than using kanthal. Can I still make twisted 28 gauge coils with stainless or is that a big no no? should I take this plunge into stainless land or just stay where I'm comfortable?

On another note I've been making my own fluid for years now so I may be set in the old ways of using PG and VG in every juice. Anymore with RTAs like a Billow v3 and others where juice flow isn't an issue as it used to be is there really much point anymore in using PG at all? I'm not even sure anymore what it does besides makes your fluid a little hotter and possibly add a little throat hit. I keep hearing people sing the praises of max VG recipes so what's the point in continuing to use PG in any recipe?

Pg is a much better flavor carrier than VG..is the biggest point for using it. I vape 75% -77%VG

 

[ScReWbALL]

You shouldn't have any trouble using SS the same as you would kanthal or Nichrome 80. I ditched Kanthal early on and jumped on the Nichrome 80 bandwagon a few years ago, but about a year ago I switched to using only tube mechs for the most part and found the advantages of using SS316L over Nichrome in some situations. I've never used it for temperature control, so, I can't speak intelligently about that, but I've used it for standard coils, parallel builds, twisted coils, claptons, fused claptons and aliens and the only issue I've had was when using 36ga SS316L as my wrapping wire and 26ga SS316L as my 3 core wires, the metal turns dark quick and causes the Cotton to turn deep red. Stainless gives you a far better "crisp" taste and the other plus I use it for (as I use it in my mechs) is its quicker ramp up time as well...a byproduct of lower ohms than kanthal and Nichrome-80, I'd assume. Right now my daily vape is dual Coil aliens using 3 core wires of 26ga SS316L wrapped with 36ga Nichrome 80...quicker ramp up time and better flavor than straight Nichrome but still good Coil life. Just watch the ohms, because SS will change that somewhat...my dual Coil builds now are at a .10 where the same dual Coil setup using only Nichrome were .13-.14


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[midknight420]

First of all, stainless steel is a lower resistance wire. If you are doing 2x28g twisted them you should be fine, but if you are doing 3x28g then it may be a little too low. I could be wrong though. You could have some better luck with 2 or even 3x30g though. In my experience, I have found that if you are wanting stay around the same resistance with stainless steel, just go to the next smaller gauge.

As for the vg question, pg not only adds some throat hit but it will also things the juice a bit. I personally mix my juices at 80vg/20pg. Gives it just a touch of throat hit, but also brings out the flavor in the juice very well also.

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[pulsevape]

You shouldn't have any trouble using SS the same as you would kanthal or Nichrome 80. I ditched Kanthal early on and jumped on the Nichrome 80 bandwagon a few years ago, but about a year ago I switched to using only tube mechs for the most part and found the advantages of using SS316L over Nichrome in some situations. I've never used it for temperature control, so, I can't speak intelligently about that, but I've used it for standard coils, parallel builds, twisted coils, claptons, fused claptons and aliens and the only issue I've had was when using 36ga SS316L as my wrapping wire and 26ga SS316L as my 3 core wires, the metal turns dark quick and causes the Cotton to turn deep red. Stainless gives you a far better "crisp" taste and the other plus I use it for (as I use it in my mechs) is its quicker ramp up time as well...a byproduct of lower ohms than kanthal and Nichrome-80, I'd assume. Right now my daily vape is dual Coil aliens using 3 core wires of 26ga SS316L wrapped with 36ga Nichrome 80...quicker ramp up time and better flavor than straight Nichrome but still good Coil life. Just watch the ohms, because SS will change that somewhat...my dual Coil builds now are at a .10 where the same dual Coil setup using only Nichrome were .13-.14


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I used SS 316 on a mech as well, not on coils as exotic as you are building , and though I agree at first I found the flavor to be crisper, but I also found the flavor seemed to dwindle alot quicker than a Kanthal coil.

 

[ScReWbALL]

I used SS 316 on a mech as well, not on coils as exotic as you are building , and though I agree at first I found the flavor to be crisper, but I also found the flavor seemed to dwindle alot quicker than a Kanthal coil.

Agreed, that's why I buy in bulk and build/change Coils often, lol. That's also why I mentioned that swapping out the 36ga Stainless with Nichrome increased the Coil life, but I'm one of those weird people where half the fun is mounting and working hot spots out of coils as well as the building...I just really enjoy the process, so, I don't mind making extras and swapping out often.

Spare coils, anyone? Lol


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[Rothom]

I bounce between ss316L and Kanthal for coils and make my own juice as well. I keep my VG/PG ratio to around 80/20. It's the combo I started with a while back and gives me a good balance of throat hit, flavor, vapor. As far as wire goes there are those that say ss wire offers better flavor. Personally, I don't see much difference between the two. To me ss wire has lower resistance and can be used in both temp control or wattage mode where Kanthal is strictly wattage mode. Both kinds of wire are widely used for vape coils and have for a while


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[mchaggis79]

First of all, stainless steel is a lower resistance wire. If you are doing 2x28g twisted them you should be fine, but if you are doing 3x28g then it may be a little too low. I could be wrong though. You could have some better luck with 2 or even 3x30g though. In my experience, I have found that if you are wanting stay around the same resistance with stainless steel, just go to the next smaller gauge.

As for the vg question, pg not only adds some throat hit but it will also things the juice a bit. I personally mix my juices at 80vg/20pg. Gives it just a touch of throat hit, but also brings out the flavor in the juice very well also.

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I bounce between ss316L and Kanthal for coils and make my own juice as well. I keep my VG/PG ratio to around 80/20. It's the combo I started with a while back and gives me a good balance of throat hit, flavor, vapor. As far as wire goes there are those that say ss wire offers better flavor. Personally, I don't see much difference between the two. To me ss wire has lower resistance and can be used in both temp control or wattage mode where Kanthal is strictly wattage mode. Both kinds of wire are widely used for vape coils and have for a while
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Looks like i'm not changing my recipes any time soon cause I've been using around 20% PG for years now. Good to know even without researching it I was basically doing the same as everyone else lmao.

I used SS 316 on a mech as well, not on coils as exotic as you are building , and though I agree at first I found the flavor to be crisper, but I also found the flavor seemed to dwindle alot quicker than a Kanthal coil.

Agreed, that's why I buy in bulk and build/change Coils often, lol. That's also why I mentioned that swapping out the 36ga Stainless with Nichrome increased the Coil life, but I'm one of those weird people where half the fun is mounting and working hot spots out of coils as well as the building...I just really enjoy the process, so, I don't mind making extras and swapping out often.
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See that's one thing I like about Kanthal. I like to tinker with flavor recipes, not coils and such. I find a build I like and I stick with it for a long time. I also like with the twisted 28 gauge kanthal I can put a build in and then not have to touch it for a month aside from replacing the cotton. I take it stainless doesn't last nearly that long?

 

[ScReWbALL]

Looks like i'm not changing my recipes any time soon cause I've been using around 20% PG for years now. Good to know even without researching it I was basically doing the same as everyone else lmao.




See that's one thing I like about Kanthal. I like to tinker with flavor recipes, not coils and such. I find a build I like and I stick with it for a long time. I also like with the twisted 28 gauge kanthal I can put a build in and then not have to touch it for a month aside from replacing the cotton. I take it stainless doesn't last nearly that long?

Truth be told, I swap out Coils like most people swap out cotton, so, I've never ran a Coil until it HAD to be changed


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[mchaggis79]

so if i used 28 gauge stainless steel and made the same build with it that i do with kanthal it won't last as long before I have to replace it?

 

[Synphul]

so if i used 28 gauge stainless steel and made the same build with it that i do with kanthal it won't last as long before I have to replace it?

Not sure why that would be the case. I've been wrapping my own coils and outside of changing them to try something different I haven't had to toss one because the coil was shot. They've lasted me a month just fine using 26ga or 28ga twisted ss316L.

The only real difference if you use 28ga ss316L vs 28ga kanthal a1, assuming you used the same number of wraps and inner diameter, the stainless will come out at a lower resistance.

The rta you mentioned is a dual coil so assuming that's what you're using and you mentioned 28ga kanthal twisted coils. Assuming dual coils, 28ga twisted with a 3.5mm inner diameter, 6 wraps each should come out around .5ohms. The same build using stainless 28ga would result in a .24ohm build.

 

[mchaggis79]

So is this the right stuff? I can't imagine stainless is really that much cheaper than kanthal. When I bought my Kanthal...2 years ago now? It was $10 for 100', how is this $5 for 500'?

 

[midknight420]

So is this the right stuff? I can't imagine stainless is really that much cheaper than kanthal. When I bought my Kanthal...2 years ago now? It was $10 for 100', how is this $5 for 500'?

That is possible. I bought 1,000ft. of kanthal 28g for like $12 I think.

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[ScReWbALL]

So is this the right stuff? I can't imagine stainless is really that much cheaper than kanthal. When I bought my Kanthal...2 years ago now? It was $10 for 100', how is this $5 for 500'?

Lightning Vape is very hit and miss with the quality of their wire, so, be careful using them...they used to be horrible, but have gotten somewhat better. Master of Clouds and Coil Society as well as Temco are very good quality wire companies...Lightning Vape and KBee are inconsistent at best and horrible at worst.


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[mchaggis79]

That is possible. I bought 1,000ft. of kanthal 28g for like $12 I think.

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Dang. The prices must've dropped a lot since I last bought wire cause $9-10 for 100' Of kanthal was the norm.

But I am looking at the correct wire on the eBay photo right?

 

[midknight420]

Dang. The prices must've dropped a lot since I last bought wire cause $9-10 for 100' Of kanthal was the norm.

But I am looking at the correct wire on the eBay photo right?

Yes, that is the correct wire. Just be very careful with eBay. I have heard that some people are being screwed by vendors on there.

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[Mattp169]

for ss goto advancedvapesupply.com
use the coupon on the site to save 15% plus they sell pre made coils and spools of clapton wires
its all ive used and its been always good
some of their coils are made by @raymo2u or at least used to be

 

[bobnat]

Truth be told, I swap out Coils like most people swap out cotton, so, I've never ran a Coil until it HAD to be changed


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I do this as well. I figure if I'm going to learn how to make them and buy thousands of feet of wire, I'm using them.

 

[Alter]

I been using kanthal for the last 4 years, twisting and claptons. I never wanted to go into other wire types just for the hassle of keeping my attys straight. I never did research stainless at all and have only a old IStick100TC that never left watt mode. I won a pile of geekvape wire a few weeks back and SS was apart of the prize. Built a 26 SS coil then proceeded to research the confusing TC settings. WOW...TC is great and now that I have a bit more knowledge using TC and ArcticFox in my IStick, I bought several gauges of SS to begin to wrap claptons and also bought several TC hitters. Its nice to be able to take a massive hit and not have the coil get burny hot like with kanthal. Don't sell yourself short by not trying stainless and TC like I did all these years, now my SS builds outnumber my kanthal builds and I'm having a fantastic vape experience using SS wire.

Truth be told, I swap out Coils like most people swap out cotton, so, I've never ran a Coil until it HAD to be changed

I do that also but I have several coils in a travel pack so if one gets burnt its a matter of changeout and wick rather than try to rebuild. Having lots of wire I only keep clapton builds a while longer but single wire coils are trashed and not dryburned and reused.

 

[raymo2u]

for ss goto advancedvapesupply.com
use the coupon on the site to save 15% plus they sell pre made coils and spools of clapton wires
its all ive used and its been always good
some of their coils are made by @raymo2u or at least used to be

They arent and havent been since before christmas but Im not going to get into the discussion of why, but Im glad they finally stopped selling them under my tag a couple months ago.

 

[mchaggis79]

I doubt I have the space on my billow v3 for anything larger than twisted coils so I just ordered 100' of 28 gauge SS316L. Even with an ID of 2mm I still occasionally have coils that touch the outer ring... thing you have to put around your build before putting on the tank. I also watched that 20 minute video on how to dry fire stainless cause I know it's a lot different than kanthal. Looks easy enough, basically exactly how I treat my kanthal builds, but stay on lower wattage and baby it.

Thank you Matt for showing me that site with the discount.

 

[mchaggis79]

I'm getting pissed though at my current build. For some reason I either taste nothing, taste cotton, or it burns. Idk if it's my coils, cotton, or I somehow fucked up making my fluid. Anything's possible cause I rushed making the fluid

 

[Mattp169]

They arent and havent been since before christmas but Im not going to get into the discussion of why, but Im glad they finally stopped selling them under my tag a couple months ago.

ahh sorry. I havent really been keeping up.
I still love there premade spools of clapton wire

 

[mchaggis79]

I'm kind of an idiot. I don't have the billow v3. I used to, but now I use the billow 2.5.

 

[ScReWbALL]

I'm getting pissed though at my current build. For some reason I either taste nothing, taste cotton, or it burns. Idk if it's my coils, cotton, or I somehow fucked up making my fluid. Anything's possible cause I rushed making the fluid

I don't know if there's just one issue that would cause all of those problems besides something up with the liquid. Burnt taste and burning cotton taste could be too much wicking in the Coil...using too thick a piece of cotton can make it hard for the liquid to draw into the area of the wicking that's in the Coil (same concept as why a twisted up dish towel doesn't absorb moisture)...so, even if it looks like the wicking is working on the exposed part of the cotton, the cotton you can't see could be bone dry, causing dry hits and burning flavor. If you take the wicking out you can tell pretty easily if that's the issue, though, because that part of the wick would be burnt. Other thing might be a short or hot-spot in the coil, but again, that's pretty easy to diagnose if you hear the hissing noise of evaporation immediately when hitting the fire button rather than it taking a second to heat up before hearing it...that can be fixed by manipulating the Coil and also making sure all your leads are tightly secured with the screws. Outside of that it could be a juice issue, but I've never done the DIY thing with juice, so, wouldn't have the first clue of what issues could be causing it on that end.


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[mchaggis79]

I think it's either vapor's tongue or if anything too little cotton. I have a tendency to use too thin of a strip.

 

[mchaggis79]

I don't know if there's just one issue that would cause all of those problems besides something up with the liquid. Burnt taste and burning cotton taste could be too much wicking in the Coil...using too thick a piece of cotton can make it hard for the liquid to draw into the area of the wicking that's in the Coil (same concept as why a twisted up dish towel doesn't absorb moisture)...so, even if it looks like the wicking is working on the exposed part of the cotton, the cotton you can't see could be bone dry, causing dry hits and burning flavor. If you take the wicking out you can tell pretty easily if that's the issue, though, because that part of the wick would be burnt. Other thing might be a short or hot-spot in the coil, but again, that's pretty easy to diagnose if you hear the hissing noise of evaporation immediately when hitting the fire button rather than it taking a second to heat up before hearing it...that can be fixed by manipulating the Coil and also making sure all your leads are tightly secured with the screws. Outside of that it could be a juice issue, but I've never done the DIY thing with juice, so, wouldn't have the first clue of what issues could be causing it on that end.


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nope I figured it out. I royally mucked up setting the coils. When I went to replace the cotton and see what was up only 1 coil was firing and it had a hot spot at that. No idea how I messed it up that badly. Oh well, even after all these years I still get the occasional faux paus lol.

I replaced the coils, took my sweet ole time this time and now it's vaping like a dream again. I can't wait to get the stainless steel though. Should be coming in some time this coming week.

 

[bobnat]

nope I figured it out. I royally mucked up setting the coils. When I went to replace the cotton and see what was up only 1 coil was firing and it had a hot spot at that. No idea how I messed it up that badly. Oh well, even after all these years I still get the occasional faux paus lol.

I replaced the coils, took my sweet ole time this time and now it's vaping like a dream again. I can't wait to get the stainless steel though. Should be coming in some time this coming week.

The good thing about this is now you know what to look for if it happens again. There's a bright side to everything.

 

[mchaggis79]

The good thing about this is now you know what to look for if it happens again. There's a bright side to everything.

Still surprises me that I messed it up that badly. I've made and set this build so many times now I could probably do it in my sleep. My wife must've been bugging me while I put it together lol.

 

[mchaggis79]

So I got the new wire. I made a build identical to my previous kanthal build, set the coils up nice and slow like the videos showed me, had the coils looking identical to what everything I've read and seen said they should look like when they're done.

I changed the wire material settings in my SMY SDNA75 to SS316L and changed it to temp control boost + mode and... underwhelmed.

It seems like there's a ramp up time before the coils start hitting like the kanthal used to or it'll hit like a beast for a second then weaken. It's just weird to me.

Is what I'm experiencing normal going from wattage mode to tc?

Absolutely no dry or harsh hits though so that's kinda nice. The more I hit it the better it seems to behave, but is what I'm experiencing normal?

When I go to change coils will I have to go back into wattage mode to set the new coils?