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Sterilization/disinfection of plastic bottles that can't be boiled?

µDavid

Member For 3 Years
Hello.

English is not my native language and relating to this subject specifically I think i lack some knowledge of words, any way I have a hard time grasping the question of sterilization/disinfection.

I have read about this without reaching a conclusion nor any actual option for me to use, but it would seem as there are two paths to sterilize a surface(container)(I don't say disinfect because in the situation in which this should be applied I want sterilization if that is possible) and I think we can call them cold sterilization and hot/warm sterilization. Where hot/warm is performed by heating a container by placing it in boiling water for a few minutes or by exceeding the boiling temperature of water with the help of a pressure cooker or oven.

Which is what I do with my glass bottles, I clean them with hot water and soap, then rinse good and then place them in an oven at above 100degC for something like 20min.

And then for every situation in which a container that can't tolerate such high temperatures there are chemicals used, and this is what I am interested in, some liquid that I can pour into my bottles, shank around in the bottle and then empty the bottle and let it dry and then have a sterilized bottle.
For all I know sterilization isn't possible this way and this only get the bottle disinfected and if that is the case then that has to be fine.

Obviously there are chemicals used for this purpose that can't be used with certain plastic bottles, and I think I am unaware of some terms or suitable search words because I can't find any option for this, I'm from Sweden which I think is a very important aspect of this thread because it wouldn't do me much good if there where some product that would do what I want to do but that I can't get my hands on.
Shipping from the USA is not cheap at all... I have actually wondered for quite a while why exactly shipping is so darn expensive from the USA

But I am using plastic bottles much more often than glass when I am mixing and testing ideas out and I have a kind of unicorn bottle that do tolerate to be boiled but it does create a lot of ware and tare and you really notice if a bottle have been boiled or not where the non-boiled bottles are much clearer, smother, maintaining a round shape etc.

Do any one know anything about this or have any other advice on sterilization?

Regards
 

Tar Heel

Member For 3 Years
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My honest thoughts on this subject is I just wash my bottles out with dish washing liquid and rinse just like washing dishes or drinking glasses.
If you really want to you can mix a 10% solution of bleach and water to sterilize, then soap then rinse until no smell is left.
 

inspects

Squonkamaniac
Senior Moderator
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Member For 5 Years
Hello.

English is not my native language and relating to this subject specifically I think i lack some knowledge of words, any way I have a hard time grasping the question of sterilization/disinfection.

I have read about this without reaching a conclusion nor any actual option for me to use, but it would seem as there are two paths to sterilize a surface(container)(I don't say disinfect because in the situation in which this should be applied I want sterilization if that is possible) and I think we can call them cold sterilization and hot/warm sterilization. Where hot/warm is performed by heating a container by placing it in boiling water for a few minutes or by exceeding the boiling temperature of water with the help of a pressure cooker or oven.

Which is what I do with my glass bottles, I clean them with hot water and soap, then rinse good and then place them in an oven at above 100degC for something like 20min.

And then for every situation in which a container that can't tolerate such high temperatures there are chemicals used, and this is what I am interested in, some liquid that I can pour into my bottles, shank around in the bottle and then empty the bottle and let it dry and then have a sterilized bottle.
For all I know sterilization isn't possible this way and this only get the bottle disinfected and if that is the case then that has to be fine.

Obviously there are chemicals used for this purpose that can't be used with certain plastic bottles, and I think I am unaware of some terms or suitable search words because I can't find any option for this, I'm from Sweden which I think is a very important aspect of this thread because it wouldn't do me much good if there where some product that would do what I want to do but that I can't get my hands on.
Shipping from the USA is not cheap at all... I have actually wondered for quite a while why exactly shipping is so darn expensive from the USA

But I am using plastic bottles much more often than glass when I am mixing and testing ideas out and I have a kind of unicorn bottle that do tolerate to be boiled but it does create a lot of ware and tare and you really notice if a bottle have been boiled or not where the non-boiled bottles are much clearer, smother, maintaining a round shape etc.

Do any one know anything about this or have any other advice on sterilization?

Regards

Man, you're taking sterilization to a whole new level.
 

Jim_MDP

Gold Contributor
Member For 4 Years
... And then for every situation in which a container that can't tolerate such high temperatures there are chemicals used, and this is what I am interested in, some liquid that I can pour into my bottles, shank around in the bottle and then empty the bottle and let it dry and then have a sterilized bottle.
For all I know sterilization isn't possible this way and this only get the bottle disinfected and if that is the case then that has to be fine.
...

I think you're being overly concerned, but...

There is a product that does exactly what you describe.
I don't know the name, but it's used by home-brewers to sterilize their bottles and various hardware.

Try searching in that area if you're determined to go that route.
 

jackmormon

Member For 4 Years
I think you're being overly concerned, but...

There is a product that does exactly what you describe.
I don't know the name, but it's used by home-brewers to sterilize their bottles and various hardware.

Try searching in that area if you're determined to go that route.

That would be STAR SAN but it is 50% phosporic acid and I would not recommend it for plastics.

On a related note---Do you folks re-use plastic bottles or do you find flavors linger from the last juice. (Not worried about sterilization.)
 

AndriaD

Yes, I DO wear a mask! I'm vaccinated, too!
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That would be STAR SAN but it is 50% phosporic acid and I would not recommend it for plastics.

On a related note---Do you folks re-use plastic bottles or do you find flavors linger from the last juice. (Not worried about sterilization.)

It depends a lot on the last flavor in the bottle -- something light and fruity doesn't linger very much; something like coffee or tobacco, you probably won't ever be able to get that out of the plastic.

Andria
 

Jim_MDP

Gold Contributor
Member For 4 Years
That would be STAR SAN but it is 50% phosporic acid and I would not recommend it for plastics.

Thanks, good catch.
The name sounds right (been ~20 years), so that's my idea shot down. ;)

Sorry David... I got nothin'.
 

compclouds

Member For 3 Years
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That would be STAR SAN but it is 50% phosporic acid and I would not recommend it for plastics.
You're right that they do use star san, but many have plastic parts as well. Googling for "home brew cleaning plastic" yielded quite a few results, because, like @Jim_MDP I immediately thought of the home beer brewing community as knowing exactly what he needs.
@µDavid
I just wash with soap and water, but if you do want to go to that level, after cleaning you can use something like iodorphor to sanitize.
Here's a page about it: http://www.brewersconnection.com/classroom/iodophor.htm
I personally would consider rinsing or at least drying after, since you are going to be vaping it.
As it says though, bleach does not sanitize, it's for cleaning. Bleach will also degrade your plastics to a small degree, but probably less than boiling. So, if you have a particularly pungent ejuice, you could consider cleaning with vinegar in water if plain soap doesn't work, and if that doesn't work, bleach in water, and then sanitize with something like iodophor, or another cleaning chemical that home brewers use. That community really has great advice on sanitizing, including of plastics, as long as you make sure to include plastic in your search terms.
 

µDavid

Member For 3 Years
Darn it, I've wrote a more lengthy post but I manage to close down the tab in my browser before I posted it.

So I will just sum up what was important in that post.

I've come across another alternative that is easy for me to use since I always have IPA at home, IPA(chemically clean(>99,5%) isopropanol) can be used as a disinfectant if it is diluted to 70% by "chemically clean water"(I don't know the English term but I think of it as distilled water).
The following is a quick summation of the information found at this page:
http://www.pharmaguideline.com/2013/11/why-70-isopropyl-alcohol-is-used-as-disinfectant.html

The 70% solution kills microorganisms by dissolving the plasma membrane of the cell wall, water is also required to denture the proteins of the cell membrane and to act as a catalyst in the reaction, the water also slows down the evaporation of the liquid thus increasing the contact time. While a 100% IPA solution would coagulate the protein of the cell membrane instantly and create a protein layer that protects the remaining proteins of the cell wall from further coagulation and as such it does not kill the microorganisms but rather puts them into a dormant state. The 70% solution does not coagulate the proteins as quickly which allows it to penetrate the cell walls and coagulates all the proteins of the cell wall thus killing the microorganism.

I seem to be pretty much forced to be happy with disinfecting, not sterilizing, unless for when I use glass bottles which I can put in high temperatures in a owen.
Though I think that disinfecting will be effective, I believe that I have gotten so serious about this because I will store 100mg/ml PG liquid in a freezer before the new EU directives is implemented where I live and then I want to maximize the storage time. And because the liquid will be stored for years I want to sterilize the containers in order to ensure that the maximum amount of time that the PG is usable is obtained.
 

Angrygod50

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Member For 4 Years
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Everything I've read about long term storage of nick suggests that for long term storage of 100mg nic go with glass. Plastic will allow a transfer of air over time and oxidize the nic. It will also permeate the plastic. Also It doesn't expand when frozen so fill the bottles to the top to keep as much air out as possible. I have 12 years worth in the freezer so I hope this info is correct. Better safe than sorry though because I'd hate to open a bottle down the road and find it's brown and peppery.
 

Elites

Silver Contributor
Member For 4 Years
My 2 cents: put 2 - 3 drops vinegar along with with warm water (not boiling) and leave for few mins then shake it well, rinse with warm water; Job done. This help my plastic and glass bottle.
 
When im re using bottles I like to was whem in soapy water, cleaning in water then i use steralyser meant for baby bottles (in the uk you can pick up supermarket home brand pretty cheap) I let the bottles soak for a few hours then let dry.
 

Synphul

Gold Contributor
Member For 4 Years
It may be possible to clean plastic, but I don't think it can be sterilized. Various plastics are known to retain flavors, stain, may impart a chemical flavor of their own (leaching), etc. Soap and water is about as good as it gets. That's why medical applications use surgical stainless and glass, those things can be sterilized. Plastic cannot. The only time the medical field uses plastic is for single use/disposable applications.
 

HondaDavidson

Gold Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Hot watter and dish soap is more than enough for all except for the most rare and dangerous of pathogens. That doesn't make you feel good alcohol and or bleach will get the rest.

FWIW unless you store the clean bottles in air tight preferably a vacuum sealed container.. Strerilization especially the baking is a complete waste of effort.... Immediatly prior to use... sure.. upon going into storage. don't bother... Clean them now, and store them.... If you think you must, sterilize later.at time of usage.
 
Im a total noob to everything to do with vaping.

But i thought id say.. There are medical desinfectants for plastic. These desinfectants are safe if you follow ratios and wash properly after...

You should ask around in medical shops but they are not cheap and dont normaly come in small sizes...

If got one of these at home, i dont use It for anything to do with vaping.

Enviado desde mi LENNY2 mediante Tapatalk
 

CJ-3

Silver Contributor
Member For 5 Years
I homebrew beer and use Star San on plastics all the time. Just bear in mind that Star San is a sanitizer but not a sterilizer.

I also should say it only works while wet. Once it dries not so much.
 

pagandevil

Bronze Contributor
Member For 3 Years
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Member For 1 Year
I run all my bottles through my uc. One 30 minute round at 55-60c with water, soap and maybe alcohol. Rinse. Then 30 minutes at 55-60c with water and vinegar. Rinse and let dry.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 

MC5

Bronze Contributor
Member For 4 Years
As convenient as plastic bottles may be for storage, I agree with the above post that it would be far better to transfer your nic concentrate to glass bottles for maximum shelf life. No matter how sterile they are to start, plasticizers evenutally leach in those bottles and their slightly porous nature will speed up degradation over time. If your goal is to keep the nic as close to fresh and intact as possible, glass is necessary. Full glass bottles stored in the freezer with no light exposure is the surest way I know.

I do think it's reasonably safe to store nic concentrate in the original plastic bottles they shipped in, unopened in the freezer, for up to a year before decanting the nic into glass. I have done so multiple times with no degradation, using both Wizard Labs and RTS 100mg nic. Much longer than a year, you are likely reducing the shelf life of the nic. It's more effective to devise a safe storage plan with glass than attempt to make plastic sterile.
 
I'm pretty sure you can only sterilize PET.

Ldpe and hdpe are too porous to be sterilized, I think it is something to that effect.
 

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