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Study on vaping flavorings toxicity

UncleRJ

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Another half assed article based largely in ignorance.

Menthol has always been on the naughty list as an ingredient in both Tobacco and E-Liquid products.

As for the dangers of a Butterscotch flavor, if you stay away from flavors that contain diacetyl, you should be fine.

But as I always say, while Vaping is much better for you than smoking, still not as good as fresh clean air.
 

AndriaD

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Another half assed article based largely in ignorance.

Menthol has always been on the naughty list as an ingredient in both Tobacco and E-Liquid products.

As for the dangers of a Butterscotch flavor, if you stay away from flavors that contain diacetyl, you should be fine.

But as I always say, while Vaping is much better for you than smoking, still not as good as fresh clean air.

If you find any fresh clean air in 2017, be sure to let us all know. ;)

Andria
 

UncleRJ

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If you find any fresh clean air in 2017, be sure to let us all know. ;)

Andria


As I live in the middle of farm country, I am guessing my air may be a bit cleaner than the "City Folk" have.

But, sometimes a wind from the south brings a "Whiff" of hog with it.
 

celticluvr

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As I live in the middle of farm country, I am guessing my air may be a bit cleaner than the "City Folk" have.

But, sometimes a wind from the south brings a "Whiff" of hog with it.
We got nothing but chicken houses here, and one hog farm in town... On a nice hot day you can smell chicken shit from a mile away. That and they spread that stuff over all the cow pastures here... And guess whats right across the street? You guessed it a cow pasture and right behind there is about 8 chicken houses.... MMMM nice chicken crap. :devil::blech::xD::giggle::giggle::giggle: Gotten sorta used to now tho. :shades:
 

AndriaD

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Only thing I ever smell around here is car and/or truck exhaust, or the godawful stink of tar from road-resurfacing. Or the smoke from some goddamned idiot burning brush instead of composting it. Vapor and the flavors in it IS a breath of fresh air, compared to that.

It's like... all these smokers spent years, DECADES, inhaling every goddamned nasty thing that BT could conceivably add to tobacco, AND the burning tobacco itself... and now they're turning into insane, compulsive, toxophobes. I'm pretty sure that NOTHING in the flavors we use for vaping comes anywhere near the toxicity of burning commercial cigarettes.

Andria
 

The Cromwell

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We got nothing but chicken houses here, and one hog farm in town... On a nice hot day you can smell chicken shit from a mile away. That and they spread that stuff over all the cow pastures here... And guess whats right across the street? You guessed it a cow pasture and right behind there is about 8 chicken houses.... MMMM nice chicken crap. :devil::blech::xD::giggle::giggle::giggle: Gotten sorta used to now tho. :shades:
You live next to the cspitol?
 

KingPin!

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Ok great so they didnt do any breakdown analysis of the liquids to state what was in them?? Just a blanket these are toxic flavours

Shop bought liquids ... ok great we know that some are better than others what about those of us who DIY? I use almost exclusively FA or TFA flavours both provide reports on Diketones and whilst some of the TFA flavours have the most minuscule amounts most have nothing to report

Also what they did isn't real life they exposed cells to the vapour for a prolonged period!? soak anything for long enough in pretty much anything and you'll find it affects cells... in fact ingesting too much water in a short period of time will kill you so....

Why not extend the study out short bursts like vapours among us do I don't vape thick clouds all day?

What have we learned from this report precisely sod all
 

KingPin!

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Makes me bloody cross ... just to add I can tell you now since giving up the rollies and going to vaping i no longer wake up with a cough in fact have no cough at all

No more horrible nic stains on my fingers

Don't feel short of breath ....ever No wheezing and can take a deep breath of air no issues

Feel generally healthier

Dont get me wrong I'm all for scientific study but It needs to be thought out properly with an adequate sample size and some actual results this sort of report belongs in high school not a university
 

AndriaD

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Makes me bloody cross ... just to add I can tell you now since giving up the rollies and going to vaping i no longer wake up with a cough in fact have no cough at all

No more horrible nic stains on my fingers

Don't feel short of breath ....ever No wheezing and can take a deep breath of air no issues

Feel generally healthier

Dont get me wrong I'm all for scientific study but It needs to be thought out properly with an adequate sample size and some actual results this sort of report belongs in high school not a university

Pretty sure this sort of report in high school would get an "F". It's only the gov't- and BP-bribed leeches who can get away with it.

Andria
 

The Cromwell

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Makes me bloody cross ... just to add I can tell you now since giving up the rollies and going to vaping i no longer wake up with a cough in fact have no cough at all

No more horrible nic stains on my fingers

Don't feel short of breath ....ever No wheezing and can take a deep breath of air no issues

Feel generally healthier

Dont get me wrong I'm all for scientific study but It needs to be thought out properly with an adequate sample size and some actual results this sort of report belongs in high school not a university
You read all of it not just the cover story?
 

KingPin!

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The Cromwell

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:eek::confused::(

Ok got to hold my hand up here didn't see an attachment only read the cover story .... viewing on my phone I'll reserve judgment until I read it properly

Meh sorry
No problem should have posted that link as well.
To me it looks like a fairly decent study as studies go that is.
 

bugalien

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The short article unfortunately only states a few negative facts with no comparison to actual combusted tobacco. The problem with this in in the delivery of the report by Science Daily. The actual article is not bad IMO.

I would personally like to see a study comparing exposure to things a non smoker breathes on a regular basis, like household chemicals, indoor pollution, dust mites, steam and fumes from heated metal when cooking foods, etc. That could be interesting...
 

The Cromwell

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Ahh we all know that living is the root cause of all death.

for myself I am just glad to see the beginnings of some rational studies.

I know that for me persoanlly there is some nasty stuff in some flavorings that cause me lots of grief if I inhale them.

Almost made me quit vaping and go back to smoking.
Had I not started DIY almost immediately I would have given up on vaping as I had only found 1 cheap tobacco flavor ejuice I could vape. After trying a couple of dozen commercial ejuices and wasting a notable bit of money. And NO it is not a PG allergy.

I also realize that I am in the minority among vapers.
But how much in the minority.
imho vaping is not a possible alternative for smoking for many people.
But by finding out which ingredients cause some of us grief this can be overcome.
 
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The Cromwell

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Another note:
And could these ingredients in flavorings that give me grief be impacting many more vapers in a lesser way?
Vapers Tongue?
Severe loss of taste is one of the griefs I get. Oral, throat and lung irritation is the rest of it.

imho the more we know the better our vaping experience can become.

I have learned to tell if a flavoring is going to get me.
Tingly lips after just a dozen or so draws.
If I drop that flavor all is good. If I keep it up for most of a day I am messed up for over 1 more day.
Usually 2 days to fully recover.
 

KingPin!

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Would be good if there was a name and shame policy for companies putting crap in their products one thing common amongst studies I've read is they say we selected major brands and such like ....ok great which ones?

Still trying to get the attachment to load arggg
 

AndriaD

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I also realize that I am in the minority among vapers.
But how much in the minority.
imho vaping is not a possible alternative for smoking for many people.
But by finding out which ingredients cause some of us grief this can be overcome.

Agreed, and I am in a similar boat -- all the asthmatics I've heard from that switched from smoking to vaping report great improvement in their asthma... alas, the exact opposite has been true for me, and if I had not been willing to endure pretty much anything from a viable substitute for smoking, I'd surely have gone back to smoking. But I just can't see "it makes my asthma easier to deal with by giving me lots of chest phlegm" to be rational at all, considering that asthma does not cause lung cancer, but cigarettes most assuredly can, and would probably also, at some point, have caused my mild asthma to become full-blown COPD. So, I endure my tight, dry chest as best I can, by taking guifenesin when it gets really bad, and trying to stay as hydrated as possible.

And maybe it's the high percentage of flavoring I use, rather than any of their ingredients; when I first started vaping, I vaped "virginia tobacco" flavor, and most tobacco flavors use a very low amount of flavoring -- and at first, my asthma DID seem improved; it was only after I had moved on to sweet stuff that my asthma got worse. But I'm not willing to endure the taste of tobacco, now that I don't smoke, so I bear up as best I can.

Andria
 

UncleRJ

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Another note:
And could these ingredients in flavorings that give me grief be impacting many more vapers in a lesser way?
Vapers Tongue?
Severe loss of taste is one of the griefs I get. Oral, throat and lung irritation is the rest of it.

imho the more we know the better our vaping experience can become.

I have learned to tell if a flavoring is going to get me.
Tingly lips after just a dozen or so draws.
If I drop that flavor all is good. If I keep it up for most of a day I am messed up for over 1 more day.
Usually 2 days to fully recover.

Once again and speaking only for myself here.

The only issue I have had with any flavor was simply that I tried something different and the flavor I purchased just plain SUCKED!

The absolutely worst example was an order from on of those places that made custom blends for you. Add so much of this and a little of that and we ship it to you. Perfect example of why I don't DIY at this time.

I have never experienced any "Tingles" of any sort while vaping.

But I do freely admit experiencing "Tingles" from other activities that I will not discuss here:devil:

As far as "Vapers Tongue" is concerned...................

I have learned that unless I drink plenty of fluids, just like health professionals suggest we do anyway, it is kind of inevitable so I make maximum use of the home water cooler I have.

In case of emergency, get a bottle of "Bioten" mouthwash as it is specifically formulated to treat Dry Mouth and by sheer accident, Vapers Tongue.
 

The Cromwell

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I can and have vaped the same flavor exclusively for months with no loss in flavor.
 

UncleRJ

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I can and have vaped the same flavor exclusively for months with no loss in flavor.


Kinda Sorta wish I had an All Day Vape that I could stick with day in and day out so I count you very lucky!

Me, I need to go back and forth between flavors to keep my taste buds interested!
 

KingPin!

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Managed to get to the report through a different link direct at the uni...Yay

For those using iPhone try here

http://usir.salford.ac.uk/40230/1/E-cigarette-paper-SPsubmitted-version.pdf

so they are using Vapouriz, Dekang, Nicolite and maybe Aulola (not heard of any of these guys personally) Sourced from
Amazon UK: e-cigarette refills.
Superdrug, Manchester, UK: Nicolite refills

I also noted they didn't trial VG in their method notes? If these are pre made no way they are running 100% PG? Or did I miss that somewhere

Suffice to say the flavours used didn't perform well. Whilst this study is thourough (ignoring my earlier comments apologies again) the intro sections definitely are worrying to read, I still cant help but think how does this compare to DIY where you are sourcing the ingredients and putting them in yourself ...if they do that one next that would be awesome especially using the well known flavour brands like FA, TFA, INW, FW, CAP etc

Also try different mods and tanks

I know you can only test a finite amount but what needs to happen is someone somewhere needs to start piecing this evidence together to put a safety net around consumers buying this stuff

More and more we are seeing higher wattage mods coming out, new flavours left right and centre, tanks using up to 10 coils (questionable) there needs to be a line in the sand that shouldn't be crossed for the mass market. These guys whether we like it or not are in it for the money. Whilst I have no doubt vaping is better than smoking, it's early days and left unregulated the market is in free for all mode where a few will spoil it for the many ...so rooting them out and banning them can only be a good thing
 

UncleRJ

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Managed to get to the report through a different link direct at the uni...Yay

For those using iPhone try here

http://usir.salford.ac.uk/40230/1/E-cigarette-paper-SPsubmitted-version.pdf

so they are using Vapouriz, Dekang, Nicolite and maybe Aulola (not heard of any of these guys personally) Sourced from
Amazon UK: e-cigarette refills.
Superdrug, Manchester, UK: Nicolite refills

I also noted they didn't trial VG in their method notes? If these are pre made no way they are running 100% PG? Or did I miss that somewhere

Suffice to say the flavours used didn't perform well. Whilst this study is thourough (ignoring my earlier comments apologies again) the intro sections definitely are worrying to read, I still cant help but think how does this compare to DIY where you are sourcing the ingredients and putting them in yourself ...if they do that one next that would be awesome especially using the well known flavour brands like FA, TFA, INW, FW, CAP etc

Also try different mods and tanks

I know you can only test a finite amount but what needs to happen is someone somewhere needs to start piecing this evidence together to put a safety net around consumers buying this stuff

More and more we are seeing higher wattage mods coming out, new flavours left right and centre, tanks using up to 10 coils (questionable) there needs to be a line in the sand that shouldn't be crossed for the mass market. These guys whether we like it or not are in it for the money. Whilst I have no doubt vaping is better than smoking, it's early days and left unregulated the market is in free for all mode where a few will spoil it for the many ...so rooting them out and banning them can only be a good thing

You make a LOT of truly excellent points!:vino:

But sadly, you/we/me need to realize that a lot of these studies are started and funded by companies with financial interest in tobacco, tobacco products as well as pharmaceutical companies making TONS of $$$$$$$$$$$ from selling smoking cessation products like the Gum, patches and pills.

Hell, half of these so called "Studies" still bring up that crap FDA study from what? 2007 based on Chinese E-Liquids that all but glowed in the dark?

There are lot's and lot's of peer reviewed studies about E-Liquids and vaping that shows just how safe it is compared to actual use of ANY TOBACCO PRODUCT.

They just get buried by the press and covered up with the crap science I have been ranting about!
 

AndriaD

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I can and have vaped the same flavor exclusively for months with no loss in flavor.

Ditto. It's just... that's what I expect, that's what I get, and if it was different all the time, it wouldn't satisfy my habit... in *exactly* the same way that smoking someone else's brand of cigarette might get me by, in a pinch, but sure didn't satisfy.

Andria
 

AndriaD

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Safety nets are vastly overrated. I don't need a safety net to know that ANY vaping is safer than ANY smoking, PERIOD. It's all about using your own brain and discrimination; waiting around for someone to tell you that something is safe is a good way to never do anything at all. Nuts to that.

We don't need no steenkin safety net.

Andria
 

The Cromwell

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Managed to get to the report through a different link direct at the uni...Yay

For those using iPhone try here

http://usir.salford.ac.uk/40230/1/E-cigarette-paper-SPsubmitted-version.pdf

so they are using Vapouriz, Dekang, Nicolite and maybe Aulola (not heard of any of these guys personally) Sourced from
Amazon UK: e-cigarette refills.
Superdrug, Manchester, UK: Nicolite refills

I also noted they didn't trial VG in their method notes? If these are pre made no way they are running 100% PG? Or did I miss that somewhere

Suffice to say the flavours used didn't perform well. Whilst this study is thourough (ignoring my earlier comments apologies again) the intro sections definitely are worrying to read, I still cant help but think how does this compare to DIY where you are sourcing the ingredients and putting them in yourself ...if they do that one next that would be awesome especially using the well known flavour brands like FA, TFA, INW, FW, CAP etc

Also try different mods and tanks

I know you can only test a finite amount but what needs to happen is someone somewhere needs to start piecing this evidence together to put a safety net around consumers buying this stuff

More and more we are seeing higher wattage mods coming out, new flavours left right and centre, tanks using up to 10 coils (questionable) there needs to be a line in the sand that shouldn't be crossed for the mass market. These guys whether we like it or not are in it for the money. Whilst I have no doubt vaping is better than smoking, it's early days and left unregulated the market is in free for all mode where a few will spoil it for the many ...so rooting them out and banning them can only be a good thing

Good analysis and hopefully analysis of the brands of flavoring commonly used in DIY will be coming at some point.
Just do not hold your breath.

I too have concerns about high volume/wattage vaping vs lower volume/wattage vaping....

If they isolated the issues with the flavorings they tested to specific ingredients and then if we knew the ingredients in the flavorings commonly used in DIY AND manufacture....
 

KingPin!

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Good analysis and hopefully analysis of the brands of flavoring commonly used in DIY will be coming at some point.
Just do not hold your breath.

I too have concerns about high volume/wattage vaping vs lower volume/wattage vaping....

If they isolated the issues with the flavorings they tested to specific ingredients and then if we knew the ingredients in the flavorings commonly used in DIY AND manufacture....

Exactly take individual components and run tests versus what the companies themselves publish, see if they are accurate all I'm saying call out brands and flavours that need changing

I myself use the cloud beast normally vape at 120w on my H-Priv so I'm automatically getting bigger hits each time using this, ok I use low %nic and flavours and try to source PG and VG of the highest quality at the end of the day we still have to place a whole load of trust in the companies we use

whilst I know funding does come from tobacco companies and pharma companies alike bet you they are getting in on the vaping thing as there is big money in it now (whether it's through an alias or not), so whilst we should take detailed studies with a pinch a salt, we shouldn't also blindly ignore them either it's good to question things and if it only serves to drive other research that isn't a bad thing imho

Wouldn't it be good if they came to somewhere like VU to seek advice on most popular DIY work with us to get a picture of the demographics on here? We have a lot of members bet there is a bucket load of people who read and use the information here without being members as well (I was one of them for 6 months before I joined) it might help get that critical buy in before we get the pitch forks out
 

KingPin!

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You make a LOT of truly excellent points!:vino:

But sadly, you/we/me need to realize that a lot of these studies are started and funded by companies with financial interest in tobacco, tobacco products as well as pharmaceutical companies making TONS of $$$$$$$$$$$ from selling smoking cessation products like the Gum, patches and pills.

Hell, half of these so called "Studies" still bring up that crap FDA study from what? 2007 based on Chinese E-Liquids that all but glowed in the dark?

There are lot's and lot's of peer reviewed studies about E-Liquids and vaping that shows just how safe it is compared to actual use of ANY TOBACCO PRODUCT.

They just get buried by the press and covered up with the crap science I have been ranting about!

This Study acknowledges only the following which is a bit veiled to be fair

This research was funded by the University of Salford and Manchester Metropolitan University through their Bidding Research Support. We would like to express our gratitude to: Dr Nanda Puspita, Ms Basma Al-Sudani and Ms Nasrin Ahmed for their help with tissue culture at the University of Salford, Professor Marija Krstic- Demonacos for their comments and the Erasmus Exchange Programme for part- funding the stipendiary of Ms Jasjot Singh and Ms Emilie Luquet

They also only reference the FDA once in thier bibliography

  1. FDA. Vaporizers, E-Cigs, and other Electronic Nicotine Delivery Systems (ENDS).

    2016, http://www.fda.gov/newsevents/publichealthfocus/ucm172906.htm09.05.2016];
Lastly thier method doesn't state how many bodies were used to harvest the cells it simply says

Salisbury, UK: Beas2B cell line (immortalised cells obtained from autopsy of normal human bronchial epithelia from non-cancerous patients)

Is this 2 or what? This is critical information you can't ascertain anything from a small sample size of dead people
 
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KingPin!

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Don't forget they did nod in this study that vaping is less toxic than smoking

If it helps put your mind at ease there are those who are on the other side of the fence on this topic

http://scienceblog.cancerresearchuk...ttes-dont-mean-theyre-not-safer-than-tobacco/

I'm inclined to take notes from this article from cancer research uk which in short goes on to say

"The most important thing to remember here is that a study looking at the effect of chemicals on cells in a lab. Although this can be useful, it obviously can’t give a clear idea of what the impact would actually be in your body. So any claims of impact on health based only on lab studies will always be far-fetched.

Cells exposed to tobacco smoke died in 24 hours yet cells exposed to vapour were alive 8 weeks later!

When you look at the bigger picture, rather than the headlines, the evidence so far actually points towards a positive role for e-cigarettes in helping combat the biggest preventable cause of cancer. However none of the questions posed here – on safety, effectiveness and impact on children – have full answers.

As said before we need years of good quality science before we can definitively answer these questions, and at Cancer Research UK we are working towards that. But for now the evidence we have suggests e-cigarettes are far safer than smoking tobacco."
 
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Whiskey

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Once again and speaking only for myself here.

The only issue I have had with any flavor was simply that I tried something different and the flavor I purchased just plain SUCKED!

The absolutely worst example was an order from on of those places that made custom blends for you. Add so much of this and a little of that and we ship it to you. Perfect example of why I don't DIY at this time.

I have never experienced any "Tingles" of any sort while vaping.

But I do freely admit experiencing "Tingles" from other activities that I will not discuss here:devil:

As far as "Vapers Tongue" is concerned...................

I have learned that unless I drink plenty of fluids, just like health professionals suggest we do anyway, it is kind of inevitable so I make maximum use of the home water cooler I have.

In case of emergency, get a bottle of "Bioten" mouthwash as it is specifically formulated to treat Dry Mouth and by sheer accident, Vapers Tongue.
Bioten, good stuff, I use it too
 

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