Sucralose vs. Ethyl Maltol (DIY Sweetners)?

Discussion in 'DIY E-Liquid - Guides, Tips & Tricks!' started by QuestForVapology, Jan 29, 2016.

?

What do you use?

  1. Ethyl Maltol

    34.5%
  2. Sucralose

    51.7%
  3. Stevia

    13.8%
  1. QuestForVapology

    QuestForVapology Member For 1 Year

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    About to put in a new order, and I was wondering the difference between the two.

    I've noticed that people prefer Ethyl Maltol on many recipe sites. Why is this? Are there noticeable differences between the two in terms of taste, interaction of flavors, the way it affects coils, shelf life, etc.?
     
  2. Neunerball

    Neunerball Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years ECF Refugee

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    If at all, I'm using Sucralose, rather than EM. EM can mute the flavor(s). A good option is using FA Marshmallow, or FA Pear as sweetener.
     
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  3. Teresa P

    Teresa P Platinum Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    I really prefer to use neither, the flavors are generally sweet enough on their own. Many of those recipe sites use a tremendous amount of flavoring (20% or more) and I believe that's because of EM (cotton candy). It tends to mute flavors, therefore more flavoring has to be added to create a "balance." Sucralose is only needed in the tiniest amounts - not even a drop per 10ml - and I only use it then if I'm shooting for an overly exaggerated "candy" taste.
     
  4. AmandaD

    AmandaD Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    I never use either!
     
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  5. wally

    wally Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    I have never needed it. Out of all the flavorings that I have gone through only one needed sweet added so why bother.
     
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  6. Heabob

    Heabob Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    I'd vote for Stevia but it's not on the list:(.
     
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  7. QuestForVapology

    QuestForVapology Member For 1 Year

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    Just added. Why stevia over the rest?
     
  8. wally

    wally Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    You also need to add "Never use"
     
  9. Teresa P

    Teresa P Platinum Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    I have Capella cherry wild w/stevia, only used it once, and I just didn't care for the taste. Heaven knows it's hard enough to find a cherry flavoring that doesn't taste like cough syrup, but this has a funky aftertaste I'm going to blame on the addition of stevia. I could always be wrong though.
     
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  10. wally

    wally Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    What is a good cherry that is like what we want.
     
  11. Teresa P

    Teresa P Platinum Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    I dunno, I've tried about all of them but Inawera. And I really don't know why I don't have Inawera, since I have so many of their other fruit flavors and love them.
     
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  12. Bucky205

    Bucky205 Bronze Contributor

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    I've used all three, depending on the recipe. Ethyl maltol is more of a cotton candy flavor. Sucralose, and Stevia are just sweet. I also use marshmallow sometimes. I make a clone called Betty, that I really like. It is 10% Forest fruit, 15% sucralose. If you use Stevia instead of sucralose it taste horrible. Betty is an extreme, and I am even amazed it taste so good. EM I am usually at 1 or 2%, Stevia a couple of drops in a 30 ml sometimes.
     
  13. QuestForVapology

    QuestForVapology Member For 1 Year

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    While I respect DIYers who don't use sweetners, I have a few recipes that specifically need sweetners. So I'm trying to find out which additive is superior, and why. So far Sucralose seems to be the best option because it retains background flavor.
     
  14. Bucky205

    Bucky205 Bronze Contributor

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    If you will give me a clue what flavors your mixing, I can make a better guess.
     
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  15. QuestForVapology

    QuestForVapology Member For 1 Year

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    Whoa 15% sucralose?

    I'm trying to clone Rex by Opus Elixer. It's an intensely sweetened Strawberry and Kiwi flavor.

    I'm also working on a personal flavor that needs an extremely bright vanilla flavor, so I'm looking for sweetners.

    And in general, I'm just looking for some rules of thumbs on sweetners and why there are so many.
     
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  16. Jimi

    Jimi Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    Seems like, IMHO, that FA marshmallow would work great in either. For me sweeteners sometimes taste bad.
     
  17. Debbiej

    Debbiej Bronze Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    New to DIY and curious about alcohol used with powdered splendid. Would that change the flavor? Vodka? Shiver...vodka and I had a hideous night out. Why not water? Or sprinkle splendid straight in while mixing? I can see using alcohol when wanting to store, it acts as a preservant. Is it just a matter of dissolving crystals? I'm a sugar freak and love sweet. I have seen a couple recipes use sweetener, seems like marshmallows change flavor a smidge and maltol dulls.
     
  18. Jimi

    Jimi Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    Yes marshmallow might slightly change the flavor, but who knows you might like it.
     
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  19. Heabob

    Heabob Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    Stevia does not mute like EM.
    And it doesn't have the "diet pop" aftertaste like Sucralose.
    Some Stevia types do have an aftertaste, especially if using too much.
    As an example: I'm using 2 drops to sweeten a whole cup of coffee, and that's around what, 200ml? (just guessing).
    So even 1 drop in 30ml should be pretty dang sweet.
    Best to dilute the Stevia at 10%, or 50% even, to help control it better.
    Other sweeteners are usually being used in percents, .5% = around 3 drops?
    3 drops of Sucralose is also very sweet, how many drops for a cup of Java?
    Even 1 drop is super sweet, just sayin, if you use any sweeteners, go easy with them.
    I just can't fathom using the amount of sweetener being used in some of the recipes I've seen:eek:.

    Splenda has 1 sugar molecule removed (from Sugar), by using Chlorine, don't think I'd wanna vape that.
    I prefer using Brown Sugar, Marshmallow, Meringue, Sweet Cream, etc.
    They usually help more than hurt as far as changing the flavor, just don't use 15%:D.

    Just my humble opinion as you will need to experiment with these to find your own preferences I think.
     
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  20. QuestForVapology

    QuestForVapology Member For 1 Year

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    Had some time today to mix some testers.

    Made 2% of Sucralose (at a standard 10 PG:1 Sucralose ratio), and 2% of TFA Ethyl Maltol.

    For me, the clear winner is Sucralose.

    Sucralose tasted like table sugar (duh). It's light and bright. Too much and it'll really take over. After trying 2%, I would back down to 0.5%-1%.

    I was let down by Ethyl Maltol (EM). EM had a brown sugar taste at 2%. It had more body than Sucralose, but its more for a baked pastry application. People also say that it tastes like cotton candy at higher percentages. I taste brown sugar. I'd use EM at 0.5%-1% for certain recipes that I'd need a darker sweetner for baked cake stuff (not candy).
     

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  21. QuestForVapology

    QuestForVapology Member For 1 Year

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    Just want to add something.

    I just got off the phone with a really informative rep from TFA, and he explained the difference to me like this:

    Sucralose is much more of a brighter table sugar flavor.
    EM is tastes like brown sugar if mixed by itself, but it actually should be viewed as a flavor enhancer. EM actually sweetens every individual flavor, where's sucralose is just a independent flavor.

    go figure..
     
  22. zdawk

    zdawk New Member

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    Where are you guys buying these sweetners? Are you just mixing them in to PG to create a custom sweetner or are these sold as a flavor you'd just drip into your ejuice recipe? I have a bag of baking stevia, do I just stir it into PG or VG or am I just way off here?
    -Newber
     
  23. Teresa P

    Teresa P Platinum Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    No, don't use the ones meant for baking and such as there are added chemicals that we really don't need in our juices. We purchase sweeteners from our flavor vendors, Bull City Vapor, ECig Express, and others.
     
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  24. nabibrian

    nabibrian VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    @zdawk hello and welcome to the VU, nice to have you here
     
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  25. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    For me it is because artificial sweeteners taste horrible to me. Why I am 100% DIY.
     
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  26. QuestForVapology

    QuestForVapology Member For 1 Year

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    Has anybody's coils gunked up because of sucralose?
     
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  27. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    Dunno but I get almost 2 months on a .75 GS Air coil at ~20 watts using GNC Nu Stevia sweetner.
     
  28. AndriaD

    AndriaD Shine on, you crazy... VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    I simply don't find EM to be very sweet. Never tried stevia, but I do know that the more organic ingredients you use, the more gunk you will have to deal with. I've read that using more than 2% sucralose is simply "too sweet," but it's all in eye, or perhaps the mouth, of the beholder, isn't it? I regularly use 2.8%-3% sucralose in my ADV; yes it gunks like a mad mofo, but it's sweet enough to suit me. Anything over about 3.2% sucralose, I find "too sweet" -- but there are probably those who like it that sweet.

    Andria
     
  29. zdawk

    zdawk New Member

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    Sweet~ (see what I did there), I got some sweetener from bull city and it's made a big difference in the recipes I've used it in. It seems to help with the shake and vape potential of a recipe. I Only a week into the whole DIY gig and it's proven a lot easier than I ever thought it would be! Sooo much money I could have saved by doing this earlier... lol!
     
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  30. Teresa P

    Teresa P Platinum Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    ;)
     
  31. jambi

    jambi Member For 1 Year

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    Experimentation is always key.

    My general rule of thumb...When I want to add sweetness, I use Sweetener (sucralose). When I want to enhance, make dominant, or otherwise modify the sweetness in other flavors, I use (very small amounts of) EM.

    I don't consider EM interchangeable with sweetener. In fact, I don't find EM to be very sweet at all, on its own. Actually, I don't really consider either EM or Sweetener as "flavors" on their own. They're enhancers, in the same class as Smooth, Sour, AP, etc.

    I have many recipes from a certain gentleman that call for as much as 8% sucralose. I've always gotten away with using 1/2 of what his recipes call for. I've left the sucralose out entirely and still like the results, so sweet is a very personal preference.

    It's also a more flexible enhancer than EM. Too much EM will totally ruin a recipe.

    I consider marshmallow somewhere between a flavor and a background enhancer. On its own it's pretty boring. Yes, it's sweet, but there's other stuff going on with it as well. I use it like I'd use marshmallows, to impart thick, fluffy, sticky, non-dairy sweetness. Yeah, that's marshmallow...it binds other flavors into gooey sticky sweetness. Just remember that with marshmallow you are also Adding Sweetness. Too much of it and everything kind of degenerates into a cloyingly thick sticky gooey mess.

    If I want simple dairy sweetness (free of vanilla and other flavors), I use FA Meringue or CAP Sweet Cream. Have yet to find a whipped cream that doesn't taste strange to me.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2016
  32. anavidfan

    anavidfan Silver Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    Ditto on most of the replies... I use mostly or all VG so its sweet enough for me.

    I did get some marshmallow once, was trying to get a coffee for a friend and I that occasionally like a latte . The marshmallow made it a tad sweeter, but it also made the coils gunk up.

    As I come along with vaping, and DIY, Ive found I enjoy real light flavors. I make most of mine with 1 to 3% flavor. The only DIY I use up to 40% extract are my tobacco NET DIY.
     
  33. PatheticMr.

    PatheticMr. Bronze Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    If a recipe calls for sweetener as a 'necessity' then I tend to go for sucralose. However, the more I've used it, the more I dislike it.

    Like others have said, EM really mutes everything for me too. Tbh, I don't even find a mix with EM to be sweeter than without.

    I can taste sucralose - or at least feels it. It gives a sort of oily effect for me (I can't quite find another way to describe it but I can feel it on my lips).

    +1 for FA marshmallow - this actually sweetens a mix and doesn't have any negative effects on other flavours (that I've noticed so far).
     
  34. suprtrkr

    suprtrkr Bronze Contributor Member For 1 Year ECF Refugee

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    I tend to use TFA "Sweetener," which is sucralose in PG.
     
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  35. MagicJosh

    MagicJosh Silver Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    Sucralose mutes flavor in most blends be careful how you you add to your mix.
     
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  36. AndriaD

    AndriaD Shine on, you crazy... VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    My experience is exactly the opposite -- sweetener makes a flavor really POP. A lot of bought ejuice, I really couldn't taste at all... till I added a bit of sucralose to it, then suddenly... WOW!

    Andria
     
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  37. Khassy

    Khassy Platinum Contributor

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    That's been my experience as well. Some are pretty blah, but add a little sucralose and they suddenly improve.
     
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  38. AndriaD

    AndriaD Shine on, you crazy... VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    I think it might be because the area of the tongue that perceives sweet is right at the tip, which is the area that vapor hits first, when you vape MtL... or maybe even the other way, I dunno, I've tried DL vaping only once, it about killed me with coughing, so I never tried it again. :giggle:

    Andria
     
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  39. Khassy

    Khassy Platinum Contributor

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    I mostly DL these days, which is why I think I need stronger flavors than the tiny percentages in most recipes. Or maybe it's just me in general. :D
     
  40. AndriaD

    AndriaD Shine on, you crazy... VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    I can certainly understand needing more flavor for DL, since it kinda bypasses the mouth entirely -- I can only tolerate that powdery shit Advair because it mostly hits the throat, not the tongue, and I gargle and rinse well after using it -- same for Ventolin, though mercifully it's not powder; I really don't even taste that anymore, I've been using it for so long (about 32 yrs). Those are the only two things I can or ever will inhale direct-lung, and sometimes even they kinda choke me up.

    Andria
     
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  41. MagicJosh

    MagicJosh Silver Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    If I lick the e-juice it is strong. But when I vape it I get muteness. I started using less to some. Some ejuice it works well in like Lemons and cheesecakes, blueberry's. Dont get me wrong If i can drink e-juice I would always use Sucralose.
     
  42. AndriaD

    AndriaD Shine on, you crazy... VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    Well, I don't actually use very much anymore; my strawberry & cream has come from 2.5% down to .35% in the two and a half yrs I've been making it -- apparently my sense of "sweet" has woken up much faster than my other tastes! But any ejuice that seems really "blah"... I add a bit of sucralose to it, and it really wakes it up.

    And I have never consumed ejuice directly; the mere thought kinda grosses me out! When my atty malfunctions and I get ejuice in my mouth in a non-vapor form, I have to spit and rinse PRONTO! Plus, it kinda burns the tongue; I guess that's the nicotine, and now that I use only 3mg, also the Flash I add to get more TH.

    Andria
     
  43. MagicJosh

    MagicJosh Silver Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    *
    I agree with you. It does wake up the juice. But on bakery's I found that it sometimes mutes it. Maybe I have vapers tongue.
     
  44. MagicJosh

    MagicJosh Silver Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    I love when it sprays in my mouth just a little bit. OMG I put less cotton in my RTA's so it will spray a litle ejuice in my mouth. But the bad part it leaks a little.
     
  45. AndriaD

    AndriaD Shine on, you crazy... VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    Ugh, I can't abide the greasy feel of it, that's why I have to spit and rinse.. plus to get the "peppery" burn off my tongue. I have a lot of digestive issues, so I wouldn't wanna risk nicotine going into my stomach, that seems like a bad case of nausea just waiting to happen.

    But that greasy feel... When I first started vaping, that was one of the hardest aspects for me to get used to -- even though I used a tobacco flavor then, which uses very little flavoring, I was constantly wiping my lips to get the greasy-feeling residue off, just from the vapor itself. I'm used to it now, and I even enjoy it, since I use a sweet juice now, but at first... I found it very off-putting, since cigarettes don't leave anything like that on your lips.

    Andria
     
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  46. MagicJosh

    MagicJosh Silver Contributor Member For 1 Year

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    We all love to vape our own way! Im just happy I learned to DIY. I make new e-juice everyday. I saved all my old Zamplebox bottles! Thank God. I use the 6mg pre mixed nicotine Max VG from Nicoriver and Its very nice! Quality.. I hate getting e-juice on my hands! OMG OMG!
     
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  47. serversurfer

    serversurfer New Member

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    I make something called Sweet Cherry Pipe Tea with 5% Cherry Blossom Tea and 10% Sweet Pipe Tobacco (VG70 overall), both from Liquid Barn. Even on its own though, the cherry blossom is quite good; very delicate.
     
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