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Tesla Invader 3 240w?

Discussion in 'Regulated (Voltage / Wattage / 3.7v/ Temp Control)' started by DuckysVapeReviews, May 5, 2016.

  1. DuckysVapeReviews

    DuckysVapeReviews Silver Contributor Member For 2 Years ECF Refugee

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    I got a Invader 3 from Direct Vapor to review and was all hyped up about the 240w capabilities. Quick read through the manual and even on the site has me scratching my head. It is a 18650 series mod. Has variable voltage from 3.7 to 6.7 via a "potentiometer". Even with Sony VTC4s, wouldn't a 0.10 build (its lowest supported build) at 3.7v exceed the 30A battery capability? Other than its extremely heavy weight it so far is a good mod (hits super hard at 6.6v with 0.25 build) My review of it is coming in next few days but wanted some other feedback on this mod before a praise or condemnation review.
     
  2. Zamazam

    Zamazam Evil Vulcan's do it with Logic VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    Hit it with Ohm's law Duck. Iffen it don't match what it says it will do, well then blast away.
     
  3. DuckysVapeReviews

    DuckysVapeReviews Silver Contributor Member For 2 Years ECF Refugee

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    Kind of my thoughts. Their site says it can exceed 240w with higher power batteries but something just isn't adding up to me. Maybe it's "proprietary chipset" is like the IPV3 Li and SnowWolf and keeps amperage down somehow while allowing higher voltage.
     
  4. Erik13

    Erik13 New Member

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    Thinking of getting one...is it ok to use a tank on this? I love the simplicity of it.
     
  5. DuckysVapeReviews

    DuckysVapeReviews Silver Contributor Member For 2 Years ECF Refugee

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    Has a springed 520 so tanks will be fine. Ran my Playboy vixen on it most of yesterday. I will be doing my review on it later today so it should be up in mod reviews tomorrow. I will say it is VERY HEAVY. With both having batteries in, weighs about twice of IPV 3 Li does. Super small and super heavy
     
  6. Erik13

    Erik13 New Member

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    also what amp batteries should I use?
     
  7. DuckysVapeReviews

    DuckysVapeReviews Silver Contributor Member For 2 Years ECF Refugee

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    The manual says Sony VTC4 or VTC5 only. PLEASE ONLY USE THEM. So many batteries out there and just hitting market claiming way higher amperage (one is claiming 65A rating when only 20A). All the pros and cons will be in the review. I know some places who sell them cheap cheap, I will toss them in the review.
     
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  8. cascadian

    cascadian Bronze Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    Get ready to be disappointed. If you pretend it is a 180W device, don't use it below .2 ohms, it has a lot to offer at it's price point.
     
  9. DuckysVapeReviews

    DuckysVapeReviews Silver Contributor Member For 2 Years ECF Refugee

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    Thanks for advice. I wouldn't be doing my job reviewing it if I didn't test it's capabilities however. So far all other reviewers I seen reviews from just quote manual and Tesla site and do a 0.50 vape on setting 3 and give praises. Imma push it from 0.1ish to 0.50 at all settings so people can draw own conclusions.
     
  10. Erik13

    Erik13 New Member

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    will do. thanks!
     
  11. raymo2u

    raymo2u VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years Unlisted Vendor

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    Most places that sell authentics are going to be stocking them much longer like liionwholesale as the stock of authentics is diminishing and all that will be left soon are fakes, I would say use Samsung 25R's, LG HE2/HE4/HB4/HB6's and you'll be fine.
     
  12. Erik13

    Erik13 New Member

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    I just ordered it. I've been looking for a simple, no frills mod ..this is exactly what I wanted.
     
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  13. DuckysVapeReviews

    DuckysVapeReviews Silver Contributor Member For 2 Years ECF Refugee

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    I get all my batts now from GenuineCells. The guys are stand up so far. I've gotten 6-8 VTC4s 2 VTC5s and 4-6 25Rs from them. All cheap cheap and genuine. From what I am understanding from my contact over there, Sony has began making the VTC5s full on again and are doing smaller runs of VTC4s. The Invader 3 was designed for 30A batteries so while lower amp ones will work at higher resistance and lower settings, people like me who push mods to their limits to make sure they do as they say, need higher amps that a 25R just can't give us.
     
  14. Erik13

    Erik13 New Member

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    If I happened to use a 25r as a backup, what would happen? This mod has safeties, correct?
     
  15. DuckysVapeReviews

    DuckysVapeReviews Silver Contributor Member For 2 Years ECF Refugee

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    It does say it has over current protection in the manual. I may try my extra new 25Rs in it tonight and see if it gets warm. I know at 0.27 & set on max (coil in pic below) the thing thrashed my lungs, compared it to a 200w draw on my IPV and yea.......this thing does what it says. 1462660475591-1819089453.jpg
     
  16. Erik13

    Erik13 New Member

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    Nice. Thanks for all the info.
    I'm so sick of TC, puffs counters and complicated menus, but leery of using a mech. This thing is exactly what I've been looking for.
     
  17. DuckysVapeReviews

    DuckysVapeReviews Silver Contributor Member For 2 Years ECF Refugee

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    My favorite mods (outside my IPV3 Li V2) are "half mechanical". What I mean is it operates on the principal of mechanical but has a mosfet for protection. The Invader 3 has a whole new "Toppesst Chipset" This gives it mechanical properties while being adjustable. I like it. Just look at size comparison pic below and you can see how small it is compared to IPV3. Will warn you it is at least 2 1/2 times heavier. 1462662858398-1615447265.jpg
     
  18. Erik13

    Erik13 New Member

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    one more question...I have two married sets of batteries I've been using in my IPV4S. Samsung 25r and the other set says 2100mah 3.7v.
    would it not be safe to use these in this mod? I did get a set of VTC4, just wondering if I can use the others as backups.
     
  19. VaporJoe

    VaporJoe >> BREAKS SHIT << Staff Member VU Owner VU Senior Leadership VU Senior Administrator Senior Moderator VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years VU Live Leadership ECF Refugee Show Host Reddit Exile Vape Media VU Live Host

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    Sounding more and more like adult toys these days... lol
     
  20. DuckysVapeReviews

    DuckysVapeReviews Silver Contributor Member For 2 Years ECF Refugee

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    Officially On The Record Response: Rule Of Thumb: NEVER use batteries from one mod on another.
    Unofficially: I occasionally "cheat" and do it. I live on the edge (been known to run a build so low on a series mod I burned a whole in my finger from hot button) just PLEASE if you choose this irresponsible reckless route, keep checking the batteries to make sure they aren't hot, turning into bombs. Etc
    They kind of are adult toys........they bring us joy and happiness when we use them.
     
  21. Zamazam

    Zamazam Evil Vulcan's do it with Logic VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    we do have an interesting vocabulary around vaping....:giggle:
     
  22. Erik13

    Erik13 New Member

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    will do. thanks for your advice.
     
  23. DuckysVapeReviews

    DuckysVapeReviews Silver Contributor Member For 2 Years ECF Refugee

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  24. DuckysVapeReviews

    DuckysVapeReviews Silver Contributor Member For 2 Years ECF Refugee

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    That's why I am here. PM me anytime you got questions if you would like. I am always happy to help
     
  25. Zamazam

    Zamazam Evil Vulcan's do it with Logic VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    I'd like to beat on one of the invader III's with a SS Stapled clapton at .12 Ohms in my Hannya Postless RDA to see if it really performs.... Saw em at Vaporbeast for $40 something, but they are OOS.
     
  26. Erik13

    Erik13 New Member

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    I have this thing set on 2 with a .15 coil on the TFV4, and it feels like it's hitting at 100 watts!
     
  27. Erik13

    Erik13 New Member

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    Ok noob questions after using this for a few hours...with a .15 coil on setting 2 it hits like a freight train. I switched to a tank with a .5 coil and have to turn it all the way up to get a good toot. Confused...
     
  28. Slurp812

    Slurp812 Bronze Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    No matter how you slice it, 2 30 amp batteries is only around 210 watts. That's fully charged BTW.
     
  29. Slurp812

    Slurp812 Bronze Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    Variable voltage. 6.6 volts @ .5 ohms is 87 watts. Even at that level I doubt it will maintain 6.6 volts while firing. If you were to set it to output 4.0 volts with a 0.15 coil, that would be 106 watts. Sure it'll hit hard, but I doubt you'd ever see a true 240 watts while firing. Well, safely that is...
     
  30. cascadian

    cascadian Bronze Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    Although I can appreciate your desire to "do your job", I think that recognizing and relaying a few facts in regard to the Invader 3 would be your job also. First: Sony as the manufacturer of the VTC4 and VTC5 cells recommended by Tesla for this device, do not claim that the cells are capable of meeting these demands. Independent testing reaffirms this fact. With a 3.3 V low voltage cutoff in the Invader III, the VTC4 is a 100W cell at best (and yes we have all seen the chart from Sony that has been taken out of context). The VTC5 is an 80W cell. Second: There is not a legitimate battery manufacturer that claims that their cells are capable of the demands of this device. If you look at independent testing... I'm only aware of 2 cells that are capable of supplying 120W and not being well into the danger zone. The LG HB2 (HB2 not G or D, 4 or 6) and the Samsung 20R (zero not a 5) have both been shown to be somewhat safe at a 40A discharge rate in Mooch's tests. And if you go by manufacturer specifications not even they can keep up with the supposed demands of this device with respective 30A and 22A CDR ratings. With the significantly more volatile chemistry in the 20R, if I was going to push the Invader III, I would only use the HB2 cell and have plenty ready as they don't have much in the way of capacity at 1500 mah. I didn't mention the Efest 38A purple wrapped cell as they are believed to be a re-wrapped 20R.

    I'm not trying to be an ass here... but a device is only as good as the weakest link. And Tesla is recommending a battery that can't meet their specifications. That would lead me to question everything about the device, proceed in a safe as possible manner and recommend that potential users do the same. Your first post indicates you know this, but your later posts make it sound like you could use a reminder.
     
  31. DuckysVapeReviews

    DuckysVapeReviews Silver Contributor Member For 2 Years ECF Refugee

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    I am working a bit with Direct Vapor and they match anyone's prices if they are not lower and they free ship everything.
    No offence but you are indeed coming off as a ass. http://www.a123systems.com/ actually offer a ideal 18650 for this device seeing as how their cells are extremely high amperage but low voltage. No bainer they are ideal for this setup. As for the comment about doing my job, and calling B.S. on VTCs actually being the best bet......guess you are calling all the guys in battery junkies section here as well as everyone from Twisted420, Twisted Messes, Grimm Green, Rip, etc liars as they have all stated the VTC is best battery for high amperage setups. @[email protected] has confirmed to me several times this same fact. These others you mention, never used em. As for they being the "only ones capable of over 100w", I got 2 25Rs in my IPV3 Li and it's at 165w and I been running the VTCs in the Invader 3 for 2 weeks and they do not get even a bit warm. I really am not trying to be a douche, but I'm a go off the word of someone I trust and know before a newer member.
    The power output is like a mechanical, the lower ohms the higher power at same setting.
    You are also leaving out the 0.10 ohm minimum resistance. I guess it's time I quit being lazy, throw some new builds in some rdas and get the review up.
     
  32. DuckysVapeReviews

    DuckysVapeReviews Silver Contributor Member For 2 Years ECF Refugee

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    Actual battery specs from independent 3rd party on each battery you and I mentioned.

    Samsung 20R
    http://www.kidneypuncher.com/samsung-inr18650-20r-2000mah/

    LG HB2
    http://www.kidneypuncher.com/lg-18650-hb2-1500-mah/

    Sony VTC 4
    http://www.kidneypuncher.com/sony-us18650vtc4-2100mah/

    Sony VTC 5
    http://www.kidneypuncher.com/sony-us18650vtc5-2600-mah/

    Samsung 25R
    http://www.kidneypuncher.com/samsung-inr18650-25r-2500mah/

    I am not new to the game, and I am awaiting loan of a meter to measure the total actual wattage invader 3 can produce. I will go ahead and review it tomorrow afternoon when I get home however in a more realistic setting and post review in Mod reviews.
     
  33. cascadian

    cascadian Bronze Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    Sorry...
    From a safety standpoint possibly... But how is using a 3.3V nominal cell in a device that has a 3.3V low voltage cutoff ideal? You would be able to use possibly 50% of the cells capacity considering it only charges to 3.6V. Far from ideal from a convenience standpoint when it is only an 1100 mah cell to begin with.
    If you want to assume that I am calling them liars instead of asserting that they are perhaps ignorant or biased then so be it.
    That is to bad. Some people enjoy using the best tool for the job and not taking unnecessary risks.
    With the specifications of the IPV3 Li stating a 3.1V per cell low voltage cutoff, that would make the 25R a 77.5W per cell battery. The method used is to multiply the low voltage cutoff by the maximum discharge rate, or 3.1V x 25A. That means your are exceeding the maximum by only 6% at 165W. The issue with the invader is that when you do this same exercise, 3.3V x 30A for the VTC4 = 99W or 3.3V x 25A for the VTC5 = 82.5W. If we assume 100% device efficiency that is exceeding maximum battery capabilities by 17.5% and 31.25% respectively, equaling almost 3 times or more than 5 times the associated risk with exceeding the cells abilities. No longer an insignificant thing to do. This only pertains to using the device with a .1 ohm load as that is the only way the device is reported to be able to achieve 240W.

    I use Mooch's testing for determining how much risk is posed by using a particular cell in a device. His testing has proven to be more than reliable and absolutely unbiased. The same can unfortunately not be said for some other specifications provided by vendors, Chinese trading companies etc. In the following table pay particular attention to the max amps column. Exceeding that limit is not a good idea.

    [​IMG]
    As you are a new member than I am, that is one of the reasons I was trying to correct the false information in your posts.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2016
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  34. DuckysVapeReviews

    DuckysVapeReviews Silver Contributor Member For 2 Years ECF Refugee

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    As for the A123Systems batteries, I said ideal for series unregulated mods bro. Tons of mod builders have told me this. I still have my doubts on the Invader 3. Please get that point.
    As for me being a newer member than you, sure in length of when I joined. But I am going by post count. I apologize if I missed ya off but those tests do not necessarily reflect vaping. As far as my "false information", I am going by what is tried and true and tested. The 20R DOES NOT COMPETE WITH A VTC, IT JUST DOESN'T. I did check around giving you the benefit of doubt, but it is a 22A continuous battery. You claim it's better than even a VTC4, wtf? Please quit trolling me and my post. For real man. I admit I have not used a HB2 ever. Maybe it is better than the VTCs. Mooch knows his stuff. But you posting these ECF links gives me impression you are just here to troll. All I ask is, don't call me a liar when I tell someone to use what a manual tells them to. I understand you are going off the chart but I am going off what I been told to use by the battery vendors here and elsewhere and have yet to have any problems. Apologize if somehow I ruffled ya up.
     
  35. DuckysVapeReviews

    DuckysVapeReviews Silver Contributor Member For 2 Years ECF Refugee

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    Cascadian: I will apologize if I come off as a prick calling you a liar. Not my intention. The HB2 has proven to be a higher amp battery with a shorter charge. The VTC4 falls in behind it by a few amps but longer life. Then a 25R and then the 20R (of those we been talking about) I will stand corrected on VTC being amp king but not longevity. I like most, still will run my VTC 4 & 25R batteries. Unless you go super subohm and heavily, the negligible difference between a 20R and 25R won't matter. Same for HB2 & VTC 4. Fact is, Invader 3 was designed for use with the VTC & use of any other battery voids warranty (e-mails with Tesla confirmed this suspicion) I do apologize if it seems like I was attacking you but the lower mAh of the HB2 had always kept me from even checking them out. Good news is, the Invader 3 has current protection with it's proprietary "Toppest Chip". IMO (and that of most in the game) the VTC 4 is the king for mechanical and 25R is for regulated. I apologize if you disagree with me but there are way more who agree.
     
  36. cascadian

    cascadian Bronze Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    No apology necessary at all... and not trolling. Every comment I have made is in regard to operating a Tesla Invader III at 240W using a .1 ohm coil as safely as possible. I never intended that to mean that one cell was better than another and am not making that claim now. My claim is that the HB2 and 20R would be the least likely to fail when tasked with supplying 120W per cell while approaching the low voltage cutoff of the device. For most applications they are not ideal and in fact for this application the battery sag and discharge would be so rapid they would suck. But they would be safer.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2016
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  37. xJoseph

    xJoseph Member For 1 Year

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    Hi to all i'm about to buy this mod I know a little bit of this mod and battery safety. But i'm not pro at it so I would like you guys answer these question
    1.What's the exact wattage at different level on the knob (I don't think there's any exact numbers so approx number is fine)
    2.In asia (that's where i'm from of course) the best batteries that I can find in the market is (AWT red 2015) That's the best I can find otherwise there is Ultrafire,Trustfire and that kind of sh*tty stuff.
    2.1 If you don't know any infos of this battery here's some info
    3000mAh 3.7V 40A(I did some research and founded out that number is actually 20A) Battery rate 15C
    so that's some basic info of the battery
    2.2 Can I use this battery in this mod?
    2.3 If yes (from 2.2 question) what's the max wattage that I can run it VERY safe
    Thanks in advance!
     
  38. Erik13

    Erik13 New Member

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    if you skip to 4:14, this guy explains how the wattage works.


    I personally love the mod and would recommend it. It is quite heavy, though.
     
  39. DuckysVapeReviews

    DuckysVapeReviews Silver Contributor Member For 2 Years ECF Refugee

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    Ummm no offense brother but this mod doesn't deal directly into wattage, but voltage. even then figuring out the watts, does you no good without knowing your atty resistance. On paper the Invader 3 goes to 705.4w at its highest setting, and as how I don't have my Haka voltage/wattage to tell what real wattage/voltage is. I don't feel right promoting this mod to you as there is way more than battery safety in play here. The Mod has safety measures to save it, but not to save your lungs, face, hands etc. There is no "wattage level adjustment" with this guy. If you looking for something along those lines, PLEASE check into variable wattage mods, maybe a ipv5 for example.
     
  40. xJoseph

    xJoseph Member For 1 Year

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    I actually don't really care about the wattage but I just want to know what's the highest level that I can crank it up to with safety without over discharging it and can I use this batteries in this mod?
     
  41. prometheus

    prometheus New Member

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    Sorry to dig this up but I've been looking for anything to help understand my invader3 and tfv8 combo better. I did the math on the. 15 coil heads and found the following, if anyoneis interested in wattage ratings at each numerical setting for the .15 heads.

    I - 86.4 W (3.6v, 24A)
    II - 126.15 W (4.35v, 29A)
    III - 173.4 W (5.1v, 34A)
    IV - 228.15 W (5.85v, 39A)
    V - 290.4 W (6.6v, 44A)

    Basically it steps .75v for each number so by figuring P=V^2÷R gets your approximate wattage for the coil head you're running.

    Just need to be sure your batteries can handle it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2017
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  42. DuckysVapeReviews

    DuckysVapeReviews Silver Contributor Member For 2 Years ECF Refugee

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    After talking with Tesla they state that the "Toppest Chipset" used is what regulates the mod to just 240W and keeps everything all nice and safe. Mine, after repeated drops, carrying in gawd awful conditions is finally going out. Rather switch is. ALOT better than the 100w stealth that lasted me exactly two weeks. Can't wait to see what the next Invader in the series will hold.
     
  43. SirRichardRear

    SirRichardRear AKA Anthony Vapes on Youtube VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 2 Years Reviewer

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    Do they confirm if it has a Dc-Dc convertor in it?
     
  44. DuckysVapeReviews

    DuckysVapeReviews Silver Contributor Member For 2 Years ECF Refugee

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    I honestly didn't discuss that with them. My main concern was the wattage and safety of the device. They did claim however that it is possible to push over 240 IF THE BATTERIES can handle it. I guess the chip also detects amp capabilities of the batteries? Not sure how that all works.
     
  45. SirRichardRear

    SirRichardRear AKA Anthony Vapes on Youtube VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 2 Years Reviewer

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    yeah that sounds odd. sounds more like an unregulated box mod with safety features IMO. maybe i'll disassemble mine when i get ti and take a look at the chip
     
  46. Thiskid410

    Thiskid410 New Member

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    Would vtc5a's work?
     
  47. DuckysVapeReviews

    DuckysVapeReviews Silver Contributor Member For 2 Years ECF Refugee

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    Honestly they should, Sony has some really good batteries.
     
  48. jaymoe

    jaymoe New Member

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    with the batteries cylin rda on it is 11.89 ounce
     
  49. PaulS

    PaulS Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    Since the thread was revived I will say that I love my Tesla 3. i got it in silver - clor versions peel quickly. It is solid as a rock. I've abused the shit out of it. And it keeps on ticking like a Timex watch.

    Now you need to know ohm's law. I often set it very low on the pot because I've used coils as low as .1 - cannot do that on a Hex! But it works ... always. Battery sled can be a tight fit. I've found loosening the atty before inserting removing batteries helps.
     

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