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The Battle Wages On: CLONE or COUNTERFEIT?

TygerTyger

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THE HARD COPY:

It's an argument that never seems to go away. Some love them, some hate them. Some claim they fill a necessary place within the market and community, others contend they hurt authentic producers. They've been called Clones, Replicas, Knock-Offs, Copies.... and most recently, Counterfeits.

One thing is certain, time hasn't taken the edge off of the debate. Recent events have once again spotlighted the heated exchanges and even vitriol that both sides of the issue are capable of.

We took the debate straight to the dictionary....



coun·ter·feit
ˈkountərˌfit/
adjective 1. made in exact imitation of something valuable or important with the intention to deceive or defraud.
noun 1. a fraudulent imitation of something else; a forgery.
verb 1. imitate fraudulently.

Upon examination of the dictionary definition, it becomes abundantly clear that any usage of the word counterfeit includes the idea of deception-- that something is being passed off as something it isn't. Thus, it's utterly inaccurate to refer to a mod regardless of where it is made, who it is made by, or how it looks, as a counterfeit unless that mod is being represented as authentic in an attempt to deceive.

We're not talking about trademarks here. However, in the all too common instance of a royalty-free or possibly not legally licensed image being usurped by a mod maker to adorn their wares, they haven't a leg to stand on if another manufacturer uses the same image. (The only person with a legitimate complaint in these instances is the original, uncompensated artist!)
We're also not defending unscruplous sellers who would take a replica and pass it off to an unsuspecting buyer as authentic. That's fraud, plain and simple. There is no defense for being a shyster.

However, to slap the "counterfeit" label on a copy or replica that is being represented as such is not merely misleading, it's a ploy to create negative knee-jerk reactions among readers or listeners. It's a term designed to elicit shock and outrage, but are those reactions justified?

Let's face it folks, for the most part, we're talking about metal tubes with different decorating. Those who appreciate and desire authentics should seek them out and enjoy them-- but that doesn't give anyone the right to dictate how others spend their money. That's where enthusiasm crosses the line to elitism. When did a good vape become a luxury reserved for a privileged few?

What about devices with a great deal more ingenuity involved... like say, Zen's ZNA? Most readers are aware that the ZNA has been cloned. Is Zen lawyering up to file law suits and vilify those who would dare stock, purchase or use one? In fact, Zen has taken a very different and rational response to the situation:

"We live in a global economy. We have to embrace change. For those of you that feel they have stolen my design, it is true... they have... but the important thing about being in this industry is that devices like this save lives by helping people free themselves of their dependency on cigarettes and combustible tobacco." (Read more HERE.)

Zen isn't stupid. He's well aware that his is the superior product... but he's also aware that those with the clones may choose to accessorize with authentic Z2 threaded parts, and perhaps enjoy the device so much they save up for the real McCoy.


Even zArrAs, producer of the Gaia, has seen the writing on the wall and is choosing to move forward instead of paddling against the current. When a large overseas retailer started stocking clones of his work, he came in with this comment: "Thank you" for cloning my design & mod... for advertising my brand 'zArrAs' ..." (Read more HERE.) zArrAs seems to understand well what VaporJoes Network has known for a long time; There's no such thing as bad press. Thanks to the clones, a lot more people know about zArrAs, and the Gaia mechanical mod.

We've heard the tired argument time and again that clones hurt original modders, but it doesn't make any more sense the 500th time than it did the first. Those who value authentics do so because of the quality. They won't be satisfied with a cheap knock off, and won't be swayed from purchasing authentic. Those that choose a copy would never have paid for a $200-$300 mod without already knowing they're going to love it. In fact, many clone owners find a design they fall in love with and it gives them the desire to own a real version.... leading to a sale for an original modder that wouldn't have existed if not for the clone market.

It's time to take a step back and stop missing the forest for the trees, folks. We need to adopt the thinking of leaders like Zen, zArrAs and others who realize that it's less important what you're vaping on, than that you're vaping.

---

Credit to BigBamBoob for assistance with research.

Click here to get more information on this deal....
 

moecat

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I pride myself in being an authentic douchebag at times.

I piss on clone/counterfeit douchebags.
 

vapedick

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THE HARD COPY:
It's an argument that never seems to go away. Some love them, some hate them. Some claim they fill a necessary place within the market and community, others contend they hurt authentic producers. They've been called Clones, Replicas, Knock-Offs, Copies.... and most recently, Counterfeits.

One thing is certain, time hasn't taken the edge off of the debate. Recent events have once again spotlighted the heated exchanges and even vitriol that both sides of the issue are capable of.


We took the debate straight to the dictionary....



coun·ter·feit
ˈkountərˌfit/
adjective 1. made in exact imitation of something valuable or important with the intention to deceive or defraud.
noun 1. a fraudulent imitation of something else; a forgery.
verb 1. imitate fraudulently.

Upon examination of the dictionary definition, it becomes abundantly clear that any usage of the word counterfeit includes the idea of deception-- that something is being passed off as something it isn't. Thus, it's utterly inaccurate to refer to a mod regardless of where it is made, who it is made by, or how it looks, as a counterfeit unless that mod is being represented as authentic in an attempt to deceive.

We're not talking about trademarks here. However, in the all too common instance of a royalty-free or possibly not legally licensed image being usurped by a mod maker to adorn their wares, they haven't a leg to stand on if another manufacturer uses the same image. (The only person with a legitimate complaint in these instances is the original, uncompensated artist!)



We're also not defending unscruplous sellers who would take a replica and pass it off to an unsuspecting buyer as authentic. That's fraud, plain and simple. There is no defense for being a shyster.

However, to slap the "counterfeit" label on a copy or replica that is being represented as such is not merely misleading, it's a ploy to create negative knee-jerk reactions among readers or listeners. It's a term designed to elicit shock and outrage, but are those reactions justified?


Let's face it folks, for the most part, we're talking about metal tubes with different decorating. Those who appreciate and desire authentics should seek them out and enjoy them-- but that doesn't give anyone the right to dictate how others spend their money. That's where enthusiasm crosses the line to elitism. When did a good vape become a luxury reserved for a privileged few?


What about devices with a great deal more ingenuity involved... like say, Zen's ZNA? Most readers are aware that the ZNA has been cloned. Is Zen lawyering up to file law suits and vilify those who would dare stock, purchase or use one? In fact, Zen has taken a very different and rational response to the situation:

"We live in a global economy. We have to embrace change. For those of you that feel they have stolen my design, it is true... they have... but the important thing about being in this industry is that devices like this save lives by helping people free themselves of their dependency on cigarettes and combustible tobacco." (Read more HERE.)

Zen isn't stupid. He's well aware that his is the superior product... but he's also aware that those with the clones may choose to accessorize with authentic Z2 threaded parts, and perhaps enjoy the device so much they save up for the real McCoy.



Even zArrAs, producer of the Gaia, has seen the writing on the wall and is choosing to move forward instead of paddling against the current. When a large overseas retailer started stocking clones of his work, he came in with this comment: "Thank you" for cloning my design & mod... for advertising my brand 'zArrAs' ..." (Read more HERE.) zArrAs seems to understand well what VaporJoes Network has known for a long time; There's no such thing as bad press. Thanks to the clones, a lot more people know about zArrAs, and the Gaia mechanical mod.


We've heard the tired argument time and again that clones hurt original modders, but it doesn't make any more sense the 500th time than it did the first. Those who value authentics do so because of the quality. They won't be satisfied with a cheap knock off, and won't be swayed from purchasing authentic. Those that choose a copy would never have paid for a $200-$300 mod without already knowing they're going to love it. In fact, many clone owners find a design they fall in love with and it gives them the desire to own a real version.... leading to a sale for an original modder that wouldn't have existed if not for the clone market.


It's time to take a step back and stop missing the forest for the trees, folks. We need to adopt the thinking of leaders like Zen, zArrAs and others who realize that it's less important what you're vaping on, than that you're vaping.


---

Credit to BigBamBoob for assistance with research.

Click here to get more information on this deal....
How about the mutation x clone up on vapor joe right now. I thought it was genuine. It appears that way. It says original and affordable. The reason everyone says clones are ok is that everything is overpriced. The mutation x is very reasonable, then you guys put up this clone saying its original. Click through and it clearly says it's a clone.
We need to support companies that put out nicely priced original gear. It's only 7 bucks more for the real thing.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.
 

MKPM

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my ex-girlfriend made a casting replica of my penis when i went away on business trips.. is that considered counterfeit or a clone? it has the same markings as the original lol!!!!
It is considered the topic of the nightmare I'm sure to experience!!!! Thanks mate o_O
 

TygerTyger

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How about the mutation x clone up on vapor joe right now. I thought it was genuine. It appears that way. It says original and affordable. The reason everyone says clones are ok is that everything is overpriced. The mutation x is very reasonable, then you guys put up this clone saying its original. Click through and it clearly says it's a clone.
We need to support companies that put out nicely priced original gear. It's only 7 bucks more for the real thing.

I'm sure Joe didn't intend to mislead anyone, and as you said, it's very clear as you said that it's not possible to purchase it without realizing it's the replica. In addition, he represented it as the Mutation X *STYLE* RDA to avoid confusion. However, even at a $7 difference, it's fine for vapers to have a choice. Let the market decide! If you're correct and people prefer the original at that subtle margin, then the clones will drop out.

my ex-girlfriend made a casting replica of my penis when i went away on business trips.. is that considered counterfeit or a clone? it has the same markings as the original lol!!!!

LMAO! You almost made me spit coffee @BigLouEastCoastReview ! hahaha..... but to answer your question, it's only a counterfeit if she's trying to pass it off as the REAL MCCOY...... and um...... well I'm just gonna leave it at that!
 

vapedick

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I'm sure Joe didn't intend to mislead anyone, and as you said, it's very clear as you said that it's not possible to purchase it without realizing it's the replica. In addition, he represented it as the Mutation X *STYLE* RDA to avoid confusion. However, even at a $7 difference, it's fine for vapers to have a choice. Let the market decide! If you're correct and people prefer the original at that subtle margin, then the clones will drop out.

He didn't say anything about it being a mutation style in the title. It says mutation x only.
Just like the fogger v4.1 he's pimping for fasttech. says no where it's a clone or in the style of until you go to fasttech. By your own rules regarding clone vs. Counterfeit, he is turning it into a counterfeit.

My point still stands that people complain about the original being too much money, then when someone does a cheap original they still want it cheaper which fucks over the guy trying to make affordable stuff. And the fucker raised the price when joe pimped it making it even closer to the original price.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.
 
lol, is there any difference between clone and counterfeit? or you just need a excuse for be a clone pusher?

Joe and Tyger posted, posting and will continue to post the Affiliate Links of the FT clones, what's important is not they calling the clones as Chna, Chnemesis or something else to identify they are innocent,,, the important thing is that : oh, work hard to find more clones, and post in more FB groups, get more visitors, make more sales, and earn more commissions...that's all...

Clone or counterfeit? people want to respect the originals, but those people like Joe and Tyger are the real pushing hands of the clones...
 

TygerTyger

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lol, is there any difference between clone and counterfeit? or you just need a excuse for be a clone pusher?

Joe and Tyger posted, posting and will continue to post the Affiliate Links of the FT clones, what's important is not they calling the clones as Chna, Chnemesis or something else to identify they are innocent,,, the important thing is that : oh, work hard to find more clones, and post in more FB groups, get more visitors, make more sales, and earn more commissions...that's all...

Clone or counterfeit? people want to respect the originals, but those people like Joe and Tyger are the real pushing hands of the clones...

Joe and I neither need nor offer any excuse. We share deals, plain and simple. It's up to every vaper how they choose to spend their vape dollar, and @VaporJoes and I will continue to let them know about their options. We don't tell anyone how to budget, shop or spend their money...... unlike priggish elitists who like to dictate how others should live, spend and vape. Take a walk through your house. If you own generic anything, download movies or music, or eat house brand foods, your argument is null and void. But thanks for making an account to weigh in here.... please visit and post often! It helps our SEO! ;)
 

VaporJoe

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lol, is there any difference between clone and counterfeit? or you just need a excuse for be a clone pusher?

Joe and Tyger posted, posting and will continue to post the Affiliate Links of the FT clones, what's important is not they calling the clones as Chna, Chnemesis or something else to identify they are innocent,,, the important thing is that : oh, work hard to find more clones, and post in more FB groups, get more visitors, make more sales, and earn more commissions...that's all...

Clone or counterfeit? people want to respect the originals, but those people like Joe and Tyger are the real pushing hands of the clones...

We are drug pushers! PUSHERS I tell ya! We don't force anyone to come to our sites or this forum. Affiliate links are nothing new. Go to ECF or any other forum - every link you link (including fasttech) is auto affiliated. We went over this a year ago - this isn't anything new.
 

VaporJoe

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How about the mutation x clone up on vapor joe right now. I thought it was genuine. It appears that way. It says original and affordable. The reason everyone says clones are ok is that everything is overpriced. The mutation x is very reasonable, then you guys put up this clone saying its original. Click through and it clearly says it's a clone.
We need to support companies that put out nicely priced original gear. It's only 7 bucks more for the real thing.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

Can you tell me who the original maker of the Fogger is?
 

morpheusneo

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You could argue that the act of the deception is the clone/counterfeit manufacturer putting the logo or name of the original manufacturer on the mod. What the use in using the logo or name then? Is it not to try to deceive? Most companies that are proud of their work will put their own company logo/name on it. If police find a cool million of cloned money in my home can if say it's cloned money, I haven't tried to deceive anyone with it?
 

VaporJoe

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You could argue that the act of the deception is the clone/counterfeit manufacturer putting the logo or name of the original manufacturer on the mod. What the use in using the logo or name then? Is it not to try to deceive? Most companies that are proud of their work will put their own company logo/name on it. If police find a cool million of cloned money in my home can if say it's cloned money, I haven't tried to deceive anyone with it?

Many of your most popular mods (i.e. King Mod) use logos that are taken from other industries. An example is the Logo for the King Mod is a trademarked in AU for a sun glass company. Also there are some logos you CANT trademark, and others are public domain graphics.
 

morpheusneo

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Many of your most popular mods (i.e. King Mod) use logos that are taken from other industries. An example is the Logo for the King Mod is a trademarked in AU for a sun glass company. Also there are some logos you CANT trademark, and others are public domain graphics.

The key there is other industries. It's not off another mod that looks just like it. At least there there's no argument that you're trying to deceive. The king mod doesn't look like anything a glass company would make...but a clone/counterfeit of a king mod would. Once they put the markings, names or logos on a clone it becomes a counterfeit. The reason for putting it on the mod is to make it look like the original, which makes it a fraudulent imitation of something else, a forgery. If they would just leave them blank or put their company name on it at that point it would be a clone. Both of which I have seen done.
 

TygerTyger

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The key there is other industries. It's not off another mod that looks just like it. At least there there's no argument that you're trying to deceive. The king mod doesn't look like anything a glass company would make...but a clone/counterfeit of a king mod would. Once they put the markings, names or logos on a clone it becomes a counterfeit. The reason for putting it on the mod is to make it look like the original, which makes it a fraudulent imitation of something else, a forgery. If they would just leave them blank or put their company name on it at that point it would be a clone. Both of which I have seen done.

Then don't purchase them, @morpheusneo.... there! Problem solved! :D
 

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I am walking down NYC, some guy open up his jacket and says you want to buy a Rolex, 10 watches are inside the jacket. I ask if they are real, he says what do you think? I am selling them for 80 bucks each. I look at them, its a working watch, self winding even, says Rolex.

The watch is a counterfeit, sorry if the name is not politically correct. Does not change if he says they are real, or says they are fake. They are being sold for 80 bucks, so its a great deal.

Lots of these MODs are not protected, in that they don't have a brand stamped on them. The 454 is a perfect example, the unit has no branding, no emblem, it just has a model number, and one of the squares of the periodic table. So you can duplicate it and call it a clone.

You have to brand it, to protect it. That comes from cows. No brand on it, means it just a stray, whoever has the cow, is the rights holder.
The brand does need to be unique so you can tell it from other brands.

If you have a RBA, and it has a name on it, the companies name, and someone in China makes something that looks exactly the same, and then puts the same name on it, same font. Its a counterfeit, does not matter if they tell you it, or if you buy it for 15 bucks. The original maker may well not have done the things they need to do to protect it, so in that case, the counterfeit won't be stoppable or illegal.....its still a fake of someone elses.

A Rohex labeled watch is just a clone. If it says Rolex, its a counterfeit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterfeit_consumer_goods

If you just want to Vape, a Timex works perfectly
 
Last edited:

hazozita

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Excellent point tyger about the lack of economic impact on modders from clones. I’ve bought several clones and also have a number of authentics. In every case when I’ve bought a clone the maker of the authentic mod has NOT lost money since, if the clone were not available, I would not have bought the authentic.

In fact, there have been a couple of occasions when I’ve liked the clone so much I’ve bought the authentic. The authentic maker GAINED a sale due to the clone.

In the rare case where an authentic maker truly feels an economic impact of clone sales, that’s the free market telling him that his business model is unsustainable. If you can’t deliver enough value to make your authentic mod appealing versus the clone, then it’s time to change your approach.

I understand the emotional hurt one can have when someone steals your ideas. But the authentic makers need to keep their focus on the actual bottom-line impact. Eliminating the clone doesn’t mean those dollars will start flowing into the authentic-makers pockets.
 

InMyImage

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Well put @TygerTyger. Clones does not equal counterfeit. Counterfeiting is illegal and the products are subject to seizure and the sellers subject to jail and/or fines. The seizure laws do not have country of manufacture issues within the United States. If they are in the US, they are subject to seizure upon determination that they are in fact counterfeits and being sold as originals. This also applies if the retailer or seller does not even know that the products are counterfeit, they can't just say, well I didn't know so I can keep them and continue selling them... At this point the retailer/seller becomes a victim of the perpetrators.

I will have to agree that you and Joe might want to look at the subject lines of a couple of you product links though. I perused them based on some comments above and there are a couple that on the main page do not indicate that they are "clones" or "styled after" although the linked pages do clearly state that. It's more of a customer satisfaction issue than any sort of deception, although people may be irritated because they followed the link thinking that they were looking at an "authentic" product.

Bill
 

Roger Schaeffer

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If You make Counterfeit Money and get caught You go to Prison. If you Clone Vape Gear you make Money. Thats the difference
 

VaporJoe

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If You make Counterfeit Money and get caught You go to Prison. If you Clone Vape Gear you make Money. Thats the difference

Actually when you counterfeit money you are spending it as REAL money. When people clone mods they say they are NOT the real thing.
 

InMyImage

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Actually when you counterfeit money you are spending it as REAL money. When people clone mods they say they are NOT the real thing.

That is the salient point Joe, a CLONE is sole as knockoff of the original. The seller discloses this upfront and the buyer spends their REAL money for a lower priced alternative and everyone is happy... assuming that the product works to the satisfaction of the buyer :)

When a COUNTERFEIT product is sold by a seller, supplier, wholesaler, manufacturer as a 1:1 duplicate of a product stating that it IS the AUTHENTIC product, REAL money exchanges hands throughout the supply chain and a buyer who spends say $200 thinking that they are buying the real deal, but are really getting a knock-off CLONE that should have been sold for say $50, then there is a REAL crime being committed and the perpetrators are subject to REAL time in prison and/or stiff fines, ESPECIALLY if it crosses state lines at a step in the supply chain.

U.S. Code › Title 18 › Part I › Chapter 113 › § 2320

18 U.S. Code § 2320 - Trafficking in counterfeit goods or services



(a) Offenses.— Whoever intentionally—

(1) traffics in goods or services and knowingly uses a counterfeit mark on or in connection with such goods or services,

(2) traffics in labels, patches, stickers, wrappers, badges, emblems, medallions, charms, boxes, containers, cans, cases, hangtags, documentation, or packaging of any type or nature, knowing that a counterfeit mark has been applied thereto, the use of which is likely to cause confusion, to cause mistake, or to deceive,

(3) traffics in goods or services knowing that such good or service is a counterfeit military good or service the use, malfunction, or failure of which is likely to cause serious bodily injury or death, the disclosure of classified information, impairment of combat operations, or other significant harm to a combat operation, a member of the Armed Forces, or to national security, or

(4) traffics in a counterfeit drug,

or attempts or conspires to violate any of paragraphs (1) through (4) shall be punished as provided in subsection (b).

(b) Penalties.—

(1) In general.— Whoever commits an offense under subsection (a)—

(A) if an individual, shall be fined not more than $2,000,000 or imprisoned not more than 10 years, or both, and, if a person other than an individual, shall be fined not more than $5,000,000; and

(B) for a second or subsequent offense under subsection (a), if an individual, shall be fined not more than $5,000,000 or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both, and if other than an individual, shall be fined not more than $15,000,000.
 

VaporJoe

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That is the salient point Joe, a CLONE is sole as knockoff of the original. The seller discloses this upfront and the buyer spends their REAL money for a lower priced alternative and everyone is happy... assuming that the product works to the satisfaction of the buyer :)

When a COUNTERFEIT product is sold by a seller, supplier, wholesaler, manufacturer as a 1:1 duplicate of a product stating that it IS the AUTHENTIC product, REAL money exchanges hands throughout the supply chain and a buyer who spends say $200 thinking that they are buying the real deal, but are really getting a knock-off CLONE that should have been sold for say $50, then there is a REAL crime being committed and the perpetrators are subject to REAL time in prison and/or stiff fines, ESPECIALLY if it crosses state lines at a step in the supply chain.

U.S. Code › Title 18 › Part I › Chapter 113 › § 2320

18 U.S. Code § 2320 - Trafficking in counterfeit goods or services



(a) Offenses.— Whoever intentionally—

(1) traffics in goods or services and knowingly uses a counterfeit mark on or in connection with such goods or services,

(2) traffics in labels, patches, stickers, wrappers, badges, emblems, medallions, charms, boxes, containers, cans, cases, hangtags, documentation, or packaging of any type or nature, knowing that a counterfeit mark has been applied thereto, the use of which is likely to cause confusion, to cause mistake, or to deceive,

(3) traffics in goods or services knowing that such good or service is a counterfeit military good or service the use, malfunction, or failure of which is likely to cause serious bodily injury or death, the disclosure of classified information, impairment of combat operations, or other significant harm to a combat operation, a member of the Armed Forces, or to national security, or

(4) traffics in a counterfeit drug,

or attempts or conspires to violate any of paragraphs (1) through (4) shall be punished as provided in subsection (b).

(b) Penalties.—

(1) In general.— Whoever commits an offense under subsection (a)—

(A) if an individual, shall be fined not more than $2,000,000 or imprisoned not more than 10 years, or both, and, if a person other than an individual, shall be fined not more than $5,000,000; and

(B) for a second or subsequent offense under subsection (a), if an individual, shall be fined not more than $5,000,000 or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both, and if other than an individual, shall be fined not more than $15,000,000.


That only if its an ISSUED patent or FULLY Registered Trademark. Applications DO NOT count.
Trust me, I have 3 patent / trademark attorneys on retainer. I don't f*ck around :)
 

InMyImage

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That only if its an ISSUED patent or FULLY Registered Trademark. Applications DO NOT count.

Right which is why I previously said that it is important for a company to officially register their Trademark with the USPTO so that they can benefit from the full legal protections of said registered trademark vs simply slapping TM after their mark.

Bill
 

Nathan

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Well I'm getting some cease and desist orders and I know others are as well. Seems like the original makers are attacking to clones.

Joe: Are you removing content when they come after you?
 

vapedick

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Actually when you counterfeit money you are spending it as REAL money. When people clone mods they say they are NOT the real thing.
NOPE. Just making it is enough to go to jail. You don't have to try to spend it or even tell anyone it's real. If the man finds this 6 million of counterfeit dollars I have here...... Oops... Shhhhh. They don't have to prove I made it or spent it to throw me in jail. IN THE US of A that is. Not sure about other countries.


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vapedick

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That only if its an ISSUED patent or FULLY Registered Trademark. Applications DO NOT count.
Trust me, I have 3 patent / trademark attorneys on retainer. I don't f*ck around :)
Must be makin a lot of bucks pimpin to have 3 lawyers on retainer. You do know what on retainer means right? That means you're paying them to sit around. Sucker


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rjmara

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The key there is other industries. It's not off another mod that looks just like it. At least there there's no argument that you're trying to deceive. The king mod doesn't look like anything a glass company would make...but a clone/counterfeit of a king mod would. Once they put the markings, names or logos on a clone it becomes a counterfeit. The reason for putting it on the mod is to make it look like the original, which makes it a fraudulent imitation of something else, a forgery. If they would just leave them blank or put their company name on it at that point it would be a clone. Both of which I have seen done.
You missed Joes point entirely,he stated that the LOGOS that are used on the authentic king mod and also the nemesis,are taken from other peoples items, sunglasses,shirt designs,etc... So in reality the authentic mod is no better than a clone because they ripped off the logo to use on there own.
 

ej1024

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Here's my say to this never ending arguments...
CLONES,1:1,COUNTERFEIT WHATEVER.... IF U HAVE THE MONEY BUY THE REAL DEAL IF YOU CAN FIND EM.. IF UR BROKE BUY THE CLASS B!!!
THEY ALL MAKE MONEY,CLONE PRODUCTS ARE THE REASON WHY VAPING IS TODAY... DO YOU THINK CARTEL MODS CAN PRODUCE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF SS,BOSS,STILLARE??? NOPE!!!!
DO YOU THINK HANA CAN HANDLE CANA?? NOPE!!!
SOON CHINA WILL TAKE OVER
MECHS TOO,,INFINITE ALREADY STARTED WITH THE CLT 1&2,
Fogger by yiloong
Ehpro big budha
Pontus by ehpro
Tobecco 30 watts DNA
Cloupor, DNA 30,t5,t6,t8
Py4u seven 22,30,ipv1&2 150 watts
Segelie 50,100 watts....
None of this USA vendors can match what the Chinese are doing,if they want to stay in the biz I suggest be friends with them CLASS B PRODUCERS/VENDORS..
VAPE ON...PLEASE IF I MISSED SOME PLEASE COMMENT...
quzutyma


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nilo52

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I took a very close look at everything in my house . I found that almost everything I own was made in China (gasp !) How did this happen ? The cause is, surprisingly , simple economics - not a James Bond super villain. We all want goods at an affordable price and the Law of supply and demand dictates that goods made at a lower price will sell more goods than those produced at a higher price if the level of quality is similar , for any given value of similar anyway.... You can kick and scream all you want but forces that drive the market will not change.:(
 

ej1024

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Member For 4 Years
Lets all blame CLINTON...
IF YOU ALL DONT AGREE LOOK IT UP..
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