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The much hated Flavor West thread.

Willbo

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Ive tried a few FW concentrates and a large proportion of them found really artificial tasting. Ones I dont mind are:
Yellow Cake - Again making this @ 5% or so it tastes overly sweet and artificial, but it does work well at low percentages to add a cakey element. However with stuff like nonna cake and lemon cake coming out now I have a feeling it will start beign subbed out in recipes.
Salted Caramel - Although it doesnt taste salted at all, which in a way makes it a fail, I think this is a good middle ground between flavour arts caramel and butterscotch flavours in that it is much more dominant that FA caramel and stands out, but if you dont want an overly sweet stand out flavour like butterscotch it is good.
Ginger - I see recipes with Natures FInest ginger always used, but as far as Im aware it isnt available in the UK. FW one is a bit like ginger ale, but its ok and certainly a lot better than the other alternatives I have tried.

None of these are "wow" flavours though, maybe there are some with FW but after tryin gthe likes of apple jacks and cinnamon churros which I have found revolting AND jsut the knowledge they havent been an ethical company, there is nothing makes me want to try other flavours. Im also not a fan of Capella which seems to be so popular with vendors. I find danish swirl though standalone doesnt impress me seems to work well in a lot of recipes, thr custard is still the best custard for me and the doughnut I like, but most of the others I have tried have just been so so at best.

A question for the original poster that interests me though. I understand originally you couldnt buy the likes of Flavour Art in commercial quantities....but, you also said that FW is really diluted. This is something hsa always intrigued me. Is say buying 10 x 100ml bottles of FA more expensive than 1 x 1litre bottle of FW when you take into account you are using much higher percentages of FW in recipes?
 

TheVapingHippie

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The reason is because that was the company that the company I work for wanted me to use. Now they are open to using different vendors.

Now that we are starting to sell more regulated box mods and less mechanical mods, I told them we need to step up our game to meet the demand of the industry.
 

zaroba

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This is something hsa always intrigued me. Is say buying 10 x 100ml bottles of FA more expensive than 1 x 1litre bottle of FW when you take into account you are using much higher percentages of FW in recipes?

Most of the time, the poeple in charge of decisions at the company don't look at things in that much detail. Most don't have a clue how things work at the bottom of the company. They just look at the here & now in regards to weekly/monthly budgets.


Boss: We need a liter
Employee: We could buy 10x 100ml bottles of FA for $60
Boss: FW only costs $40 for a liter. Buy that one.
Employee: But it wont last half as long.
Boss: It's cheaper, it takes up less space.
Employee: But we'll need three bottles to make as much as we could with the FA
Boss: It's $20 less, we only want to buy one bottle
Employee: but it will save money in the long run
Boss: We're saving $20 by buying FW
Employee: but we need more of it
Boss: It's cheaper though
Employee: You don't understand
Boss: Yes I do, I'm in charge, I know what I'm doing
 
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RonJS

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Now that we are starting to sell more regulated box mods and less mechanical mods, I told them we need to step up our game to meet the demand of the industry.

Is this because of the possible higher wattage of the regulated box mods and effect on FW flavored juices? Or?

I really have no idea and is just a WAG.

Thanks!

Ron
-----
“You can't find the right roads when the streets are paved.” ― Bob Marley
 

TheVapingHippie

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The company I work for has me mix at 50/50, to me 50/50 tends to be a bit harsh when subohming.
Reformulating and improving makes sence to me at least.
 

TheVapingHippie

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I'm talking them into letting me mix at 30/70. And I'm also trying to convince them that in the long run we will save money and make more profits if they will do it the way I'm suggesting. I personally want to have the freedom to use any flavoring I want.
But for now, I use what I can get.

Believe me, they don't have all my recipes.

On my my own personal juices I order through places like Bull City.
I do still diy for my own research.

Maybe one day break out on my own, who knows.
 

The Cromwell

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To be honest, I don't think FW is hated as much as you think.

I have just as much FW as I do FA and use a combination of both in most of my recipes. I like it.
Have a little bit of CAP and TFA as well but just the main popular stuff (ie vanilla custard, brown sugar, etc)
Brown sugar is the only TFA flavor I use. The other 12 or so I Tried went down the drain.
 

freemind

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The company I work for has me mix at 50/50, to me 50/50 tends to be a bit harsh when subohming.
Reformulating and improving makes sence to me at least.
It sounds like the company you work for, has decided to be stuck in the groove of 2 or three years ago.

In all honesty, what's the point of giving them your recipes and making suggestions that would actually please the customers? Seems the owners could care less, and remain clueless. It would seem as well, YOU are not profiting from it.

The business owner(s) are NOT going to "reward" you later down the road dude. They take their money and go. If I was you, I'd demand compensation in return or I'd just stop helping them.
 

burley

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I'm surprised fw blueberry hasn't been mentioned yet, it's one of my favs
Absolutely - best blueberry out there in my opinion.

Though not a huge fan of FW overall, they've got a Blueberry that's awesome and a Wintergreen that is delicious. Other than the two, however... Umm, Coumarin Pipe Tobacco is alright, nice and light and airy. Mixes well, sometimes, if you can coax the flavor notes out from under anything else you put in there, that is. Vanilla Tobacco is okay as well, but that's about the extent of it.
 

VelvetA

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I like a ton of FW flavors: cinnamon roll, madagascar vanilla, hazelnut, yellow cake, blueberry, razzleberry, moose milk, reindeer poop, boom!, extreme ice, inport tobacco, candy cane, and on and on :)
 

VelvetA

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Any opinions on FW whipped cream, yellow cake, or cream cheese icing?
Yellow cake is delicious. It will destroy your coil but it's worth it :) I wasn't aware that FW had a cream cheese icing - the only one I've ever had was LorAnn and it's fabulous. Seriously good stuff.

Anyone have a good starting % for Scooby Drink and Shirley T? Or a recipe using either of them?
 

dreadymark

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Yellow cake is delicious. It will destroy your coil but it's worth it :) I wasn't aware that FW had a cream cheese icing - the only one I've ever had was LorAnn and it's fabulous. Seriously good stuff.

Anyone have a good starting % for Scooby Drink and Shirley T? Or a recipe using either of them?
Oh, you're right, that one is LorAnn.
 

dreadymark

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Never used the whipped cream myself.
I have FA Whipped Cream though and either that or Marshmallow are used in most of my mixes.
Thnx. I ordered the FW whipped cream because it had better ratings on the site than TFA. Guess I should have asked around more.
 
I know that just about everyone here has really nothing good to say about Flavor West.
First of all let it be known that I make ejuice for a small company and as much as I would like to order Flavor Arts, I can not find it in commercial quantities.
(I order flavors by the quart.)
I have about 5 years diy experience and have been mixing commercially for about 2 years.

So for all those closet FW mixers feel free to post your impressions, experiences, and recipes here.
Don't worry, I won't steal your recipes. I have plenty of my own.
All of which are good sellers.
I haven't had a lot of luck with FW flavors but I do like the Grape Soda flavor. Best grape that I have ever tried.
 

VAPESWAPSHOP

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The reason for the double digit percentages is because of the dilution factor with FW.
But when I'm mixing multiple flavors I use low single digit percentages.
When I do my butterfinger recipe, you have to be exact. .25% one way or another and you screw the whole thing up and end up with chocolate peanut butter maple syrup.
Needless to say, it took me 6 attempts to get it right.
I'm a BIG pink lemonade fan and having problems with an odd taste getting from the FW pink lemonade at 4% stand alone....What would you suggest solo on this or is it one of those funny ones?
 

VAPESWAPSHOP

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I'm hoping FA comes out with a diketone free version of this soon.
didnt know it had diketones is there a good compiled list of brands and flavoring types with these and other things we shouldnt vape in them?(or potentially dangerous not sure if that being dangerous has been proven yet?)
 

OBDave

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didnt know it had diketones is there a good compiled list of brands and flavoring types with these and other things we shouldnt vape in them?(or potentially dangerous not sure if that being dangerous has been proven yet?)
There is somewhere, and just about everything FW is on the list because they've been known to be spotty on their disclosure...
 

VAPESWAPSHOP

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There is somewhere, and just about everything FW is on the list because they've been known to be spotty on their disclosure...
ok so my next order will have ingredients to make my own pink lemonade!! thanks....Any ideas about Capella? Im enjoying almost all of the ones I picked from them so far
 

SailCat

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Ahh western Orygun. Lived in Beaverton for a few years.

With diketones being tasty chemicals which cause popcorn lung in workers exposed to high concentrations for a couple of decades, I spin the whee on this one as I find the peril exhilarating. Yeah, baby, life on a razor's edge. ;)

I pays my moneys and takes my chances on this one. YOLO! :D

BTW, could I trouble one of you to check in on me in a couple of decades to see if I'm right about this immortality thing?
 

Heabob

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With diketones being tasty chemicals which cause popcorn lung in workers exposed to high concentrations for a couple of decades, I spin the whee on this one as I find the peril exhilarating. Yeah, baby, life on a razor's edge. ;)

I pays my moneys and takes my chances on this one. YOLO! :D

BTW, could I trouble one of you to check in on me in a couple of decades to see if I'm right about this immortality thing?

From what I've read about it, most of the workers were also smokers:eek:.
 

Heabob

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ok so my next order will have ingredients to make my own pink lemonade!! thanks....Any ideas about Capella? Im enjoying almost all of the ones I picked from them so far

I like most everything I've tried from CAP, except anything in the Chocolate family, as they all just have an odd after taste to me.
 

VAPESWAPSHOP

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CAP is my fav flavorings with FA and FW being next.

ok so my next order will have ingredients to make my own pink lemonade!! thanks....Any ideas about Capella? Im enjoying almost all of the ones I picked from them so far

I was trying to figure out if CAP had any diketone offenders that you all knew of.
Also if anyone wants to know about Diacetyl or hasnt read the article, the most recent one I know of is Here.....If anyone else has any newer and informative articles please share!

I am not extremely concerned as a lot of others as I know this has GOT to be the work of cigarette companies trying to stop the vaping movement. However, I definitely try to avoid as many POSSIBLY HARMFUL substances as I can within reason....Although its not necessary I just feel the WHOLE reason I started vaping was to take better care of myself and hopefully live longer.......So I JUST wanna BE safe
 

VAPESWAPSHOP

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Vaping is not totally safe. Just much safer than smoking.
Vaping vs smoking is harm reduction not harm elimination.

We will not know the full impact of vaping on health for at least a few decades.
True enough...
EDIT: "be safe as possible" in a questionably new and unknown ERA which we happen to be part of. Who knows could end up after T/C and all the new "SAFER" features it could turn up to be very safe in the near future. Pinpointing possible weak links and fixing potential problems is a positive movement in the right direction, along with vaping itself, so Help point em out and share the facts so we all can be ""safe as possible!!"";)
 

mjag

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I was trying to figure out if CAP had any diketone offenders that you all knew of.
Also if anyone wants to know about Diacetyl or hasnt read the article, the most recent one I know of is Here.....If anyone else has any newer and informative articles please share!

I am not extremely concerned as a lot of others as I know this has GOT to be the work of cigarette companies trying to stop the vaping movement. However, I definitely try to avoid as many POSSIBLY HARMFUL substances as I can within reason....Although its not necessary I just feel the WHOLE reason I started vaping was to take better care of myself and hopefully live longer.......So I JUST wanna BE safe

Capella lists the A/P status here: http://www.capellaflavors.com/a-p-status/ You have to scroll to the bottom to see the flavors that are undergoing re-formulation to remove A/P which when heated can turn into diketones.
 

mjag

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FW Natural Butterscotch is really good, my favorite flavor from them. Dulce De Leche, Tres Leches, Yellow Cake and Cake Batter Dip are also pretty good, not like OMG I need a 4oz bottle good but I use them from time to time. I do like the aroma of there Whipped Cream and Toasted Marshmallow but so far have yet to find the right percentage that would replace what I normally use. Not a fan of there Waffle or Strawberry.

I really would like to like FW more than I do, there prices are great and there about 45 minutes from me.
 

Teresa P

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I really like their Butter Pecan, Hazelnut, Pie Crust, and Butterscotch Ripple too.
Oh, and Cinnamon Roll.
I just got some of the butter pecan, mixed it up with some Caps pralines and cream the other day, along with some vbic....verrrry tasty!
 

VAPESWAPSHOP

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Hows the steep time on the butterscotch and the yellow cake? definitely have at least those on my list already....been looking for a good cinnamon roll that wont take forever to steep or be so strongly cinnamon. Anyone have suggestions for % on FW pink lemonade or steep time? Seems to have a rind taste almost for a week or so and only used 4 %....could be just me, I am picky about my pink lemonade!!haha
 

freemind

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Hows the steep time on the butterscotch and the yellow cake? definitely have at least those on my list already....been looking for a good cinnamon roll that wont take forever to steep or be so strongly cinnamon. Anyone have suggestions for % on FW pink lemonade or steep time? Seems to have a rind taste almost for a week or so and only used 4 %....could be just me, I am picky about my pink lemonade!!haha
TFA cinnamon Danish swirl.
 

Heabob

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been looking for a good cinnamon roll that wont take forever to steep or be so strongly cinnamon.

FW Cinnamon Roll is a good one stand alone even, and 7% is plenty strong enough for me.
(Just use less for a milder version like 3-5%).
(24hrs steep time)
You can add some FW Pie Crust to get more of the "Roll" part too.
Cinnamon Roll goes well with 2% FA Cookie, or 2% INW Biscuit, or 3% CAP Sugar Cookie, (Snickerdoodles).
 

TheVapingHippie

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Personally I think too much is made over dyketones.
The workers who were affected worked for years in that industry with massive amounts of butter flavoring being used.
With the minuscule amounts being used in the flavorings we use when making ejuice, I think that the risk is actually quite low for people who vape.
 

The Cromwell

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Personally I think too much is made over dyketones.
The workers who were affected worked for years in that industry with massive amounts of butter flavoring being used.
With the minuscule amounts being used in the flavorings we use when making ejuice, I think that the risk is actually quite low for people who vape.
Yep and there is no proof whatsoever that diketones in liquid form in vaping cause any problems. They were inhaling powdered form in large quantities.
We will not know the long term effects of vaping in general on humans for decades. At which time I will be dead anyway.

I likes my diketones.
I do know that many flavorings and artificial sweeteners that most use cause me physical grief. Inflammation and swelling in the mouth and throat.
No problems with the diketone based flavorings.
I have only found 1 TFA flavoring I can tolerate and no Inawera flavorings that I can use.
Because of this I MUST do ALL DIY.

I use FW and CAP flavorings.
 

TheVapingHippie

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So if the flavors that were used by the workers were in a powder form, the popcorn lung condition would actually be a form of black lung, simular to what coal miners get.

Vaping is not the first time in my life I had to deal with diacetyl. When I used to make homebrewed beer (made it for 25 years) you had to boil your wort for at least an hour to kill off the flavor that it gives beer. ( think vegetable like. King Cobra malt liquor comes to mind.)
If you have ever drank a beer that has a cream corn note to it, you then know what diacetyl tastes like.
 
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