The Truth About the Vaping Crisis

Discussion in 'The Good' started by 5150sick, Nov 29, 2019.

  1. 5150sick

    5150sick Under Ground Hustler Staff Member VU Administrator Senior Moderator VU Donator Diamond Contributor Mod Team Leader Member For 5 Years

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  2. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell The Frugal Vapist VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    “I think that the lesson we need to learn is that you don’t succeed when you have a popular product by banning it,” Siegel says. “What works is regulating the product. And I think had the FDA been regulating e-cigarettes from the beginning, had they set safety standards, including maximum nicotine levels, we would never have gotten into this mess.”

    good article.
     
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  3. bobnat

    bobnat VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    Funny, but I just listened to this podcast today. I got a bit annoyed by it to the point I turned it off. The first part that bothered me was the nicotine being portrayed as being very negative. Yes, they pointed out that nicotine is the lesser of evils in tobacco, but it's still portrayed as evil.

    In other words, nicotine is highly addictive. But nicotine is not the biggest villain of this story. The bigger problem is what Hatsukami calls the nicotine “delivery system”: cigarettes. Among the toxicants that get into your lungs when you smoke a cigarette are benzene, ammonia, arsenic, and lead.

    Last month I met an American in his 40's who has never smoked, yet he and his friends like to vape socially. They've been doing it for awhile then they ran out of juice. They didn't know where to get some here in the UAE. They didn't start smoking cigs to get their nicotine fix because they didn't become addicted to it.

    If nicotine is so highly addictive then why in the world can you buy it over the counter in just about every country in the world? No one I've asked can reconcile this and they usually just start spouting nonsensical bullshit.

    Bear in mind that this is a very small piece of the podcast. What's not in the transcript is when he interviewed a guy who was either the ex Surgeon General or FDA Head (I can't recall) and the guy said that one problem is "We have no idea what is in ejuice." Dubner didn't call him on this and that's where I stopped listening.

    Dubner at least presented both sides of the argument but he did a piss poor job of being critical of what people told him. There were so many moments where he could have asked some probing questions to look beyond the sound bites but he didn't. Another example was when he talked about how so many teenagers are vaping and it's viewed by many as a gateway to smoking. He also mentioned flavors a few times but always in the context of it was the lure to draw kids into vaping...every fucking time he did this. Not once did he mention the adults who also like flavors. The more I think about this right now, he did a shitty job. He's a decent writer but it's obvious it was his former partner who did the critical thinking while he just recorded it.
     
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  4. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell The Frugal Vapist VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    I do believe that high nic salts like Juul are addictive.
    Verification from Matt Scullys lady who is trying to kick Juuling.
    She is a nurse.
    Also based on the teen vaping problem and such that is MUCH less in the UK where high nic is prohibited.
     
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  5. Rhianne

    Rhianne Platinum Contributor ECF Refugee

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    I’ve vaped high mg nic salts and don’t really notice that much of a difference, but I’m not trying to quit nic.

    Yes, I have to agree that if we had a nic cap like the UK, kids would prolly not be vaping or Juuling.
    I’m just wondering if when bans plus Deeming kick in, if vapers won’t start using Juuls to get nic and not smoke. It’s a crappy choice, imho.
     
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  6. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell The Frugal Vapist VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    I do not expect that the FDA will permit high nic vapes.
     
  7. Rhianne

    Rhianne Platinum Contributor ECF Refugee

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    That would be one way to “save the kids”!
     
  8. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell The Frugal Vapist VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    One of the critical parts of the PMTA process is that the vape has to be lower risk than smoking. On the nic side of things Juuls are not.
     
  9. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell The Frugal Vapist VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    Save the kids? Nope they will just do something else stupid, But it removes one avenue. Or makes it less attractive anyway.
     
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  10. Rhianne

    Rhianne Platinum Contributor ECF Refugee

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    But since Altria is BT, I figured they would skate through. Maybe at lower nic mgs, they will.
     
  11. Rhianne

    Rhianne Platinum Contributor ECF Refugee

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    Maybe they’ll just start smoking again. And parents can cry to the gov’t to protect their kids, blah blah. Why are parents not able to parent in the last 20-ish years?!
     
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  12. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell The Frugal Vapist VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    I figure at lower nic levels but i will be surprised if they pass PMTA at 50+ mg nic.
    If they do get passed at 50 mg + nic levels the the WH meetings and such were all just bullshit.
    cutting nic levels is one way to reduce youth vaping.
    I hear they do have 20 mg pods for Juuls.
     
  13. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell The Frugal Vapist VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    Of course if they only are permitted for 20 mg pods this guy will be selling kids 50 mg bootleg pods!

     
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  14. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell The Frugal Vapist VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    Why? They have been letting TV's, video games and cellular devices and the net raise/program their kids for them.
    a parent must choose the babysitters for their kids well.
    Let them watch people getting hacked up in horrible ways in movies,games and such but running for a cop if the think their kid saw a naked breast.
    Really messed up morals in the US.
     
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