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Thoughts on Roth's decision to leave VH ?.

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Just got back from my home state of NJ and saw i had some conversations i didn't know i had , only one out of four came through and holy Christ i can't even count the alerts i got and didn't know about .

Why logging in for the first time in about a week , Rogers post caught my eye because i know Roger and he's a good man , so i checked it out and it was locked thus my post here.

Let me say i am quite taken aback by many of the responses , especially from some mods , members not so much as they are quite predictable , so when i saw a lot of Roger bashing i just had to shake my head and laugh.

Roger was a very nice guy , always talked highly of VU when i have seen him elsewhere and while i thought leaving over a single post that wasn't even generated from VU didn't make much sense, apparently it did to him and so it should be respected .

Why anyone would mention he being a coward and the other negatives is beyond clueless and i refuse to believe anybody is not bright enough to already know this and refrain from posting such garbage .

I have found that posting the reasons why someone is leaving is very much appreciated actually , i used to hate when i saw somebody who i enjoyed corresponding with and then they just disappear .

I would usually wonder what the hell happened , while it's true many don't care and forums always go through this and will always continue to go through it , i am glad i know why he left but thats just me.

Why anyone thinks he is looking for sympathy is another baffling question , didn't appear that way to me , stated his reasoning and that was it .

I will say that the no belittling rule mentioned so many times in his thread should be abolished because there is NO question that the rule is never followed by anybody .

Belittling is not right but it happens quite often actually . If someone belittles you then find out where the fucker lives and take his entire family out (preferably while he watches) or hit him back twice as hard. This is standard protocol going way back to the nursery school days and should be utilized by everybody imo .

There's always a simple and reasonable solution , just got to look for it. Now when a Mod contacts you and says you can't fight back then we got a problem.

These days i much prefer to just send out two separate F.U 's in the aggressors direction , one for their flapping trap and one to shove as far up their ass as their arm length will allow and be done with it.

Sometimes people who leave are just trying to be friendly and feel they owe the members they have had good relationships with an explanation, others think you should just leave and nothing wrong with that either .

Some are so clueless and have everything so mixed up that it's a good idea to tell the entire story for those that actually do give a damn and their are always some of those .

Not the bits and pieces of bullshit that others who are in their "cool clic" who also happen to have the IQ equivalent of a "turnip" tell everybody.

The whole Roger leaving story has turned into a monumental mess where nobody seems to get it .In my instance i stated that forums start to bore me after awhile (which is 100% true) and i usually post less and less.

The biggest reason, and i have to be honest here, is that over time i started to see the true colors of some people who i used to like and it really turned me off and i really started to lose interest with the forum . Of course it wasn't one person or a single post , i'm sure Roger had his reasons as well .

If it is really one post so be it but i doubt it , he has not posted much either as time went on and maybe it was time for him to check out who knows , fact is nobody knows for sure .

Not everyone has class though , give Roger a break folks , he really is a good guy and has been through a lot of very serious issues, mental health issues , general health issues etc...

Yes, there is a bunch who don't care , thats a given (especially with the younger generation) but there is also a ton who do so this is for them.

He is an older gentlemen and not some wise ass punk , being overly cruel just reveals so much about who the person posting the comments is really about and a lot of it's nonsense , inaccurate and classless.

I am just shocked by who is actually posting a lot of it . Damn shame,



Just my opinion and i am glad i told it , none of the above is meant as a joke , i hope some people find it enlightening but i feel i had to because Roger is a class guy.
 
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freemind

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Just got back from my home state of NJ and saw i had some conversations i didn't know i had , only one out of four came through and holy Christ i can't even count the alerts i got and didn't know about .

Why logging in for the first time in about a week , Rogers post caught my eye because i know Roger and he's a good man , so i checked it out and it was locked thus my post here.

Let me say i am quite taken aback by many of the responses , especially from some mods , members not so much as they are quite predictable , so when i saw a lot of Roger bashing i just had to shake my head and laugh.

Roger was a very nice guy , always talked highly of VU when i have seen him elsewhere and while i thought leaving over a single post that wasn't even generated from VU didn't make much sense, apparently it did to him and so it should be respected .

Why anyone would mention he being a coward and the other negatives is beyond clueless and i refuse to believe anybody is not bright enough to already know this and refrain from posting such garbage .

I have found that posting the reasons why someone is leaving is very much appreciated actually , i used to hate when i saw somebody who i enjoyed corresponding with and then they just disappear .

I would usually wonder what the hell happened , while it's true many don't care and forums always go through this and will always continue to go through it , i am glad i know why he left but thats just me.

Why anyone thinks he is looking for sympathy is another baffling question , didn't appear that way to me , stated his reasoning and that was it .

I will say that the no belittling rule mentioned so many times in his thread should be abolished because there is NO question that the rule is never followed by anybody .

Belittling is not right but it happens quite often actually . If someone belittles you then find out where the fucker lives and take his entire family out (preferably while he watches) or hit him back twice as hard. This is standard protocol going way back to the nursery school days and should be utilized by everybody imo .

There's always a simple and reasonable solution , just got to look for it. Now when a Mod contacts you and says you can't fight back then we got a problem.

These days i much prefer to just send out two separate F.U 's in the aggressors direction , one for their flapping trap and one to shove as far up their ass as their arm length will allow and be done with it.

Sometimes people who leave are just trying to be friendly and feel they owe the members they have had good relationships with an explanation, others think you should just leave and nothing wrong with that either .

Some are so clueless and have everything so mixed up that it's a good idea to tell the entire story for those that actually do give a damn and their are always some of those .

Not the bits and pieces of bullshit that others who are in their "cool clic" who also happen to have the IQ equivalent of a "turnip" tell everybody.

The whole Roger leaving story has turned into a monumental mess where nobody seems to get it .In my instance i stated that forums start to bore me after awhile (which is 100% true) and i usually post less and less.

The biggest reason, and i have to be honest here, is that over time i started to see the true colors of some people who i used to like and it really turned me off and i really started to lose interest with the forum . Of course it wasn't one person or a single post , i'm sure Roger had his reasons as well .

If it is really one post so be it but i doubt it , he has not posted much either as time went on and maybe it was time for him to check out who knows , fact is nobody knows for sure .

Not everyone has class though , give Roger a break folks , he really is a good guy and has been through a lot of very serious issues, mental health issues , general health issues etc...

Yes, there is a bunch who don't care , thats a given (especially with the younger generation) but there is also a ton who do so this is for them.

He is an older gentlemen and not some wise ass punk , being overly cruel just reveals so much about who the person posting the comments is really about and a lot of it's nonsense , inaccurate and classless.

I am just shocked by who is actually posting a lot of it . Damn shame,



Just my opinion and i am glad i told it , none of the above is meant as a joke , i hope some people find it enlightening but i feel i had to because Roger is a class guy.

First, I dare some keyboard commando to physically THREATEN me or my family. Get balls enough to try something and you'll be buried someplace that is not a graveyard. I have no tolerance for the mental midget that think it's "OK" to threaten and harm other people. I'm the wrong fucker to mess with.

Secondly, yes, I agree a FEW went overboard with their comments. But IF they feel that way, WTF is wrong with them speaking their MIND? Your buddy was just as free to tell them to fuck off, as he was to lay out his cry ass excuse to leave. Who really gives a fuck if he leaves? It's a free will thing here. You stay or go. No one is forcing you. It sure looks to everyone, like he wanted people to beg him to stay. Didn't happen, right? We are all just a brick in the wall.

I meant what I said. Don't let the door hit you on the ass, on the way out.
 

BigNasty

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Some class guy.
Throwing parting shots while promoting himself as a vaping advocate.
Ask a few questions of him and he storms off like a child..

Got it! A class guy advocating for vapers as long as they do not answer questions, not someone I want advocating for my rights in any fashion.
 

VH fan

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First, I dare some keyboard commando to physically THREATEN me or my family. Get balls enough to try something and you'll be buried someplace that is not a graveyard. I have no tolerance for the mental midget that think it's "OK" to threaten and harm other people. I'm the wrong fucker to mess with.

Secondly, yes, I agree a FEW went overboard with their comments. But IF they feel that way, WTF is wrong with them speaking their MIND? Your buddy was just as free to tell them to fuck off, as he was to lay out his cry ass excuse to leave. Who really gives a fuck if he leaves? It's a free will thing here. You stay or go. No one is forcing you. It sure looks to everyone, like he wanted people to beg him to stay. Didn't happen, right? We are all just a brick in the wall.

I meant what I said. Don't let the door hit you on the ass, on the way out.


LOL , you'll never see it coming lol , it's that fast , watch the movie "The Professional" you get the idea. Roger is not my buddy by any means , spoke a few times but thats all it took , he is a very good person and by the way , a person doesn't have to be my friend for me to stand up for them.

Who cares if he leaves? More than you know apparently , Roger had a lot of close friends here . Roger has class , he does not tell people to fuck off , his excuse is his excuse and it certainly doesn't need to be approved by you or anyone else . Trust me Roger DOES NOT want anybody to ask him to stay either , he's not a shallow guy like that.
 

vaperature

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What questions were asked of Roger?
 

Whiskey

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Really???
headdesk_zps0bbe8663.jpg
 

Surgikill

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Where's the original thread?
 

VH fan

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No not really , the thread should have never been closed , just a bashing of Roger when he wasn't even around , J.Baker made perfect sense but you get bashed for that two apparently . Sometimes you just need to grow up .
 

freemind

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LOL , you'll never see it coming lol , it's that fast , watch the movie "The Professional" you get the idea. Roger is not my buddy by any means , spoke a few times but thats all it took , he is a very good person and by the way , a person doesn't have to be my friend for me to stand up for them.

Who cares if he leaves? More than you know apparently , Roger had a lot of close friends here . Roger has class , he does not tell people to fuck off , his excuse is his excuse and it certainly doesn't need to be approved by you or anyone else . Trust me Roger DOES NOT want anybody to ask him to stay either , he's not a shallow guy like that.
Considering the fact you don't know me, your assumptions are just that. I do NOT take kindly to threats. Nor am I am blind lemming that knows nothing about self awareness or how to defend myself.

I'd REALLY be more careful if I were you, about slinging around threats. Anyone that feels the need to fling them around, has already demonstrated how questionable their abilities are.

Secondly, if Roger is your friend, good. You feel the need to stick up for him, good. You flinging about threats because of a tantrum you are having about the way he was treated, stupid.

P.S. if your friend Roger really wasn't seeking approval he would have kept it to himself, or in the least, told his other friends VIA PM. People come and go. Only a drama queen finds the need to make a scene when leaving.
 

Browncoat

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I don't know why I'm even bothering at this point. But here goes...

1) Starting a new thread about a topic that has been locked is taboo on any forum. This thread is beating a dead horse. A VERY dead horse. You weren't here to have your say in the matter when it was open for discussion, so you're basically poking your head in after the fact with, "Yeah but...", which is only going to ignite more fires. There is absolutely zero chance of anything constructive coming out of this thread.

2) Rage quit posts piss people off because they are the equivalent of throwing a childish temper tantrum. If someone is not happy with things, that's fine. Just leave quietly. Posting some snarky whine post about leaving is just an attention grab that is looking for someone...anyone...to come to the rescue and exclaim, "Please don't go! We love you! We need you!"

3) Lastly, a little bit of perspective: If this Roger guy had anything further to add, he would've posted it himself. By advocating for him, all you're doing is heaping the ensuing shit storm this thread will generate on yourself.

-1_zpse739ed2d.jpg
 

BigNasty

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If you stump for cash posing as an advocate, be prepared to answer questions on what the advocacy is doing and where the donated money is spent..
If you are non profit as required you open the books when inquired on.

Pretty simple.

I am tired of seeing the fleecing of vapers by dirtballs with zero accountability for their actions.
 

VH fan

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Some class guy.
Throwing parting shots while promoting himself as a vaping advocate.
Ask a few questions of him and he storms off like a child..

Got it! A class guy advocating for vapers as long as they do not answer questions, not someone I want advocating for my rights in any fashion.


I know nothing about his vaping advocacy interests , wasn't commenting on that at all , just as a person in general who has admitted to having mental issues so it's understandable.
 

vaperature

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I've been on the fence here. At first I was like, why is this guy leaving over an article that wasn't even published on VU. But looking closer, it's true, the article along with another one was almost plagiarized from last week's Mod Envy, then reposted by VU management himself, and now I have unconfirmed reports that the author is even invited to be a guest on Mod Envy? Gee, I wonder why Roger was confused about who was actually telling people "you'd be better off donating to CASAA than to Vaping Militia". It does seem a little skewed at this point.
 

BigNasty

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I know nothing about his vaping advocacy interests , wasn't commenting on that at all , just as a person in general who has admitted to having mental issues so it's understandable.
Weak sorry excuse for shitty behavior and theft.
 

vaperature

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If you stump for cash posing as an advocate, be prepared to answer questions on what the advocacy is doing and where the donated money is spent..
If you are non profit as required you open the books when inquired on.

Pretty simple.

I am tired of seeing the fleecing of vapers by dirtballs with zero accountability for their actions.
How was Roger "stumping for cash?"
 

VaporJoe

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Are we really going to start making reaction posts to people who decide not to come to VU anymore? :D :D I honestly think its a waste of bits and bytes.. but we allow free speech and conversation - so have at it.

Thread re-opened.
 

vaperature

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I agree, freedom of speech rules. As for "this Roger guy" I don't know him, but I do know he was a member here since June of 2014, practically from the forum's inception. When someone new pops in and starts driving away the original members, if it happens once oh well thin skin, if it happens twice oh well can't take the heat, let that slide a few more times suck on it this is freedom of speech, but it it keeps happening one has to start wondering if the problem is with the people leaving or with the person posting National Enquirer-ish blog posts twice a week with full support and praise from the forum administrators. Just saying.
 

MKPM

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I agree, freedom of speech rules. As for "this Roger guy" I don't know him, but I do know he was a member here since June of 2014, practically from the forum's inception. When someone new pops in and starts driving away the original members, if it happens once oh well thin skin, if it happens twice oh well can't take the heat, let that slide a few more times suck on it this is freedom of speech, but it it keeps happening one has to start wondering if the problem is with the people leaving or with the person posting National Enquirer-ish blog posts twice a week with full support and praise from the forum administrators. Just saying.
Interesting point that I've wondered myself on occasion. I have not been shy in my critique of the "Inner Sanctum" that seems to be completely separate from the "rank and file" vapers that made this forum....and the VapeTV type streams what they are. Shame this, and I am hoping that at some juncture, the anointed gods and goddesses on high might just realise that there is an issue that only the dismantling of the ego might remedy.
 
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Midniteoyl

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I agree, freedom of speech rules. As for "this Roger guy" I don't know him, but I do know he was a member here since June of 2014, practically from the forum's inception. When someone new pops in and starts driving away the original members, if it happens once oh well thin skin, if it happens twice oh well can't take the heat, let that slide a few more times suck on it this is freedom of speech, but it it keeps happening one has to start wondering if the problem is with the people leaving or with the person posting National Enquirer-ish blog posts twice a week with full support and praise from the forum administrators. Just saying.
Have to agree... People seem to forget how ECF got to the way it is today...
 

5150sick

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VH fan When you took a break you did so at the most professional level.
You PM'ed people who mattered to you on the forum and explained why you were leaving.

Roger was one of the members who came to the news & media section where everyone is free to post and left comments on articles and even posted a few threads of his own.

Since June 500 articles have been posted there.
I posted 98% of those articles.

Roger posted 1.6% of them.
But he did come in and post which is very rare in that section here on VU.

So he will be missed to me.

I would have loved a PM from him and if I got one I would have honestly tried to talk him out of leaving.
I am sure you know that.

The thread you speak of turned from "Roger is leaving" into "Tom Baker VS V3P4R" neither of them were backing down and they still would be in that thread arguing right now.
That is reason 1 why the thread was locked.

It was 5am and us moderators could no longer stay awake in order to keep moderating.
This is reason 2 the thread was locked.

I hope people realize there is a report button on the posts which directly reports ANY post to the admins.
We ask the admins in Skype chat before we take any action on any post anyway.

USE THE REPORT BUTTON IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH ANY POST THAT YOU FEEL BREAKS THE RULES. PLEASE!:)
 

Spike64

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I posted in the other thread exactly what I think of those that flounce...no respect for those that do it and no regrets at all for posting it...that's my view and of course, YMMV...
 

Browncoat

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I see a guy who is clearly part of the status quo. He's an advocacy fanboy, content to re-blog, re-tweet, and re-share content from sources who he adamantly believes are down for the struggle. He believes it deeply in his bones. He has a Twitter account and a Facebook page and a vlog dedicated to it. Then my blog comes along and pokes a big, stinky finger right in his eye.

Roger made every effort in the General Written Media/Blogs section of these forums on Jan 5th and 6th to dominate the conversation by starting several new threads, including a link that attempted to promote what Phil and Dimitri were doing in China. Again, just re-sharing like a good little worker bee advocate should. I posted a link to my article, and the thread took a completely different direction.

He rage quits the forum because the straw that broke the proverbial camel's back was yet another article by yours truly that took direct aim at his beloved associations and advocacy groups. His little world was shattered. Just like all the other vitriol-spewing advocacy re-sharers who have commented on my article and sent nasty emails. Hell, one of these zealots went so far as to attempt to "out" me by posting my full name and thought it fit to offer up critique on my photography in their own blog post. It was awesome! Who is this person? A mouthpiece and co-host to Dimitri Agrafiotis. Go fucking figure.

I won't apologize for having a different viewpoint, and I've only begun to rock the boat. I'm sure Roger can find solace in the arms of the next street corner rally. He'll be just fine.
 

vaperature

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I see a guy who is clearly part of the status quo. He's an advocacy fanboy, content to re-blog, re-tweet, and re-share content from sources who he adamantly believes are down for the struggle. He believes it deeply in his bones. He has a Twitter account and a Facebook page and a vlog dedicated to it. Then my blog comes along and pokes a big, stinky finger right in his eye.

Roger made every effort in the General Written Media/Blogs section of these forums on Jan 5th and 6th to dominate the conversation by starting several new threads, including a link that attempted to promote what Phil and Dimitri were doing in China. Again, just re-sharing like a good little worker bee advocate should. I posted a link to my article, and the thread took a completely different direction.

He rage quits the forum because the straw that broke the proverbial camel's back was yet another article by yours truly that took direct aim at his beloved associations and advocacy groups. His little world was shattered. Just like all the other vitriol-spewing advocacy re-sharers who have commented on my article and sent nasty emails. Hell, one of these zealots went so far as to attempt to "out" me by posting my full name and thought it fit to offer up critique on my photography in their own blog post. It was awesome! Who is this person? A mouthpiece and co-host to Dimitri Agrafiotis. Go fucking figure.

I won't apologize for having a different viewpoint, and I've only begun to rock the boat. I'm sure Roger can find solace in the arms of the next street corner rally. He'll be just fine.
I've kind of gone from respecting what you're doing to not so much over the course of the last month. I would certainly respect your views more IF I thought they were in fact your views. In the last month alone you published no less than FOUR articles that merely regurgitated Vapor Joe's views that he expressed on Mod Envy. Some of the views you're repeating I think are valid; sometimes the way you are presenting them, however, I don't feel is very valid at all. Then when you yourself are confronted directly about your own articles, you either obfuscate or get snotty or disappear for a while until the subject is changed. Just like you are doing right here, talking crap about a guy you don't even know just because he called you out upon his exit. That just seems very unprofessional in my opinion, about as professional as giving your audience a double middle finger while wearing Joe's hat.
 
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Browncoat

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I can't please everyone, nor do I make any attempt to. Some people are going to agree with me, others are going to attempt to tear me down or don a tinfoil hat, waiting with baited breath to comment on the next thing I say or write. Tit for tat, and we keep going in circles until it degrades into yo momma insults.

If I agree with Joe, I'm a mouthpiece.
If I create original content, I'm just trying to make money.
If I defend myself, I'm an asshole.
If I don't defend myself, I'm obfuscating.
If I state a fact, it's cast off as opinion.
If I make an opinion, I'm not presenting enough facts.

Yawn.

I don't care if you think my views are valid, and I don't care if you like how I present them. If you're unhappy with my voice, then start your own blog or show and put your own ass out there. You published a couple books about vaping, right @vaperature? I'm sitting here with both of them on my desk. Clearly you have a modicum of talent, so instead of being a keyboard warrior on the forums, have at it. Start your own blog. Go ahead, I'll go find some tin foil while you get started.
 

Wulfy27

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I can't please everyone, nor do I make any attempt to. Some people are going to agree with me, others are going to attempt to tear me down or don a tinfoil hat, waiting with baited breath to comment on the next thing I say or write. Tit for tat, and we keep going in circles until it degrades into yo momma insults.

If I agree with Joe, I'm a mouthpiece.
If I create original content, I'm just trying to make money.
If I defend myself, I'm an asshole.
If I don't defend myself, I'm obfuscating.
If I state a fact, it's cast off as opinion.
If I make an opinion, I'm not presenting enough facts.

Yawn.

I don't care if you think my views are valid, and I don't care if you like how I present them. If you're unhappy with my voice, then start your own blog or show and put your own ass out there. You published a couple books about vaping, right @vaperature? I'm sitting here with both of them on my desk. Clearly you have a modicum of talent, so instead of being a keyboard warrior on the forums, have at it. Start your own blog. Go ahead, I'll go find some tin foil while you get started.

Gah you're an ass!!! Then hell, some of my favorite people are asshats. :)
 

vaperature

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I can't please everyone, nor do I make any attempt to. Some people are going to agree with me, others are going to attempt to tear me down or don a tinfoil hat, waiting with baited breath to comment on the next thing I say or write. Tit for tat, and we keep going in circles until it degrades into yo momma insults.

If I agree with Joe, I'm a mouthpiece.
If I create original content, I'm just trying to make money.
If I defend myself, I'm an asshole.
If I don't defend myself, I'm obfuscating.
If I state a fact, it's cast off as opinion.
If I make an opinion, I'm not presenting enough facts.

Yawn.

I don't care if you think my views are valid, and I don't care if you like how I present them. If you're unhappy with my voice, then start your own blog or show and put your own ass out there. You published a couple books about vaping, right @vaperature? I'm sitting here with both of them on my desk. Clearly you have a modicum of talent, so instead of being a keyboard warrior on the forums, have at it. Start your own blog. Go ahead, I'll go find some tin foil while you get started.
I don't need to start my own blog. I've spent the better part of my life writing review and criticism and expository essay both for print publications and online. I've held a bachelor in writing for nearly thirty years. The one thing I learned very early is if I was going to dish it out I had to be able to take it. The amount of double talk you present is amazing. Yes, if you do nothing but agree with Joe and all your ideas are plagiarized from him, that does make you a mouthpiece. (Go ahead, then, do an expository article on Joe exposing everything negative you can find and mix it with your opinion about how people shouldn't support what he does, and see if you're invited back on Mod Envy--I dare you.)

And here you are, just inventing things off the top of your head in your own defense like a good pseudo-martyr does. For example, who said if you create your own content that you are just trying to make money? You just did; nobody else said that. Who said if you don't defend yourself that you are obfuscating? I didn't say that. You obfuscate when you obfuscate, like when I asked you the other day if Roger was a part of Vaping Militia and you answered "welcome to the eyes wide open club." That was an obfuscation. You were intentionally muddling the water by not giving a simple, direct yes or no answer. I see very clearly that you don't care what anyone thinks of "your" views. That's the difference between someone who has run a blog for a month about a community he hasn't even been part of much longer just to get attention and someone who takes pride and has experience in what he is doing and who actually cares about the community he's part of.
 
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vaperature

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And that's a prime example of a V4P3R response. You want to call everyone out on their shit and expect them to answer to you, to explain themselves to you as if you are the master judge of the vaping universe, yet when you yourself are confronted about your own shit all you have in you is some lame, childish bullshit. Good luck in your "blogging" career. Lol.
 

vaperature

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Trolling the trolls is a hobby of mine. But, you're right. I'm bowing out, I have my limits..usually once amusing turns to boring.

;)
You say stuff like this then have the nerve to criticize Phil Busardo when he said no comment, that he wanted to avoid the drama. You cause the drama and then you act like you're above your own drama. Wow. I just have one more question for you. Did you ever even smoke?
 

vaperature

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Obligatory circle-jerk response.
Lol, never mind, I knew you wouldn't give a direct answer. You expect everyone and their mother to pull out their private books for you at your command but can't answer one simple yes or no question about yourself. I noticed when I was agreeing with you and encouraging you I was a-okay in your book, but now that I'm merely asking you some simple questions, I'm a troll. You have about the thinnest skin I've ever seen. I'm really disappointed in you man.
 

Midniteoyl

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I guess you're right. I just hope all this squabbling doesn't invite the government to come in and regulate us. But with all the money involved it might be inevitable.
They dont need us squabbling as an excuse ;)
 

vaperature

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I guess you're right. I just hope all this squabbling doesn't invite the government to come in and regulate us. But with all the money involved it might be inevitable.
Somehow I doubt the government gives a crap if we squabble. This entire idea that if we all behave like good little boys and girls that those who want to impose their regulations will have mercy on us is shear hogwash. The regulations are primarily going to be about recovering the tax dollars that are lost from people not smoking cigarettes anymore. We can put on airs all we like that we're all responsible adults but nothing we can do holds a candle to hard cold cash.
 

VH fan

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First thing i would like to say is "bravo" to Joe and Tom for recognizing that VU was not just another forum and not allowing it to become just one of the others where every thread was starting to be locked because someone didn't like how it was going .

I was chuckling and shaking my head in disbelief last night after i tried to respond but found it was locked again so quickly . Now about the quote below :

By advocating for him, all you're doing is heaping the ensuing shit storm this thread will generate on yourself.

If you knew how i was your above comment would of been left out because if you think i actually care about stirring up a "shitstorm" you clearly don't have any clue of what i'm about , when your not afraid to speak your mind and always call out BS when you see it , thats what happens .

Now for those that can't tolerate the truth or being confronted with things that will likely hit deep , i would advise for you to move on but i thought why not tell exactly how it is and what i find so common in todays World and it's sad.

These days most people generate little gangs or clic's and live on just complaining about everything and anything as long as it's not their own deficiencies .

Fact is most people much prefer to feel like they are accepted and a part of something already stable , it's human behavior 101 lol.

People in these groups tend to just talk about why others peoples views are wrong , why this person shouldn't have done that or this and so on, these types i am convinced don't even realize how hypocritical their behavior really is . You want close minded and unwilling to accept peoples differences , well these groups emulate it .

Individuals who gravitate to these groups are generally very stubborn in real life , very unsure of themselves with extremely low self esteem , most have been severely bullied during childhood , have repeated failed marriages and relationships and have not had a very happy existence , it's always someone else's fault lol.

By clic's and groups i am referring to any type of gathering of people who are actually quite different from each other but constantly approve what the others comment on (even real dumb stuff )and say things that make them appear as one .

Not all that unlike a prison gang where one needs to become a member for protection and a sense of acceptance even though they really don't agree with all the views but need to come across as they do .


Thats my biggest gripe with them by far , if they weren't always so negative and individuals weren't so transparent trying to make sure the group continues to accept them they would be fine.

I should say that some who are involved in these clics are perceptive enough and realize whats going on and usually break free from it for awhile and sometimes permanently , others are so filled with self doubt that they never leave and need constant reassurance from a group , all very predictable .

There's a big reason why i have always preferred to keep my distance from these things and why i just never wanted to stay longer than a few minutes at a time in them . Just not my thing , never has been though.

Being unique and different and knowing your self worth is a truly liberating and fantastic feeling , many need extensive therapy to break out of of negative thinking patterns and some never break free from it .


Whatever you do , never let what others say about you to bother you , people will always disagree and not everybody is going to like your style and individuality . If your confident in who you are and have strong convictions what others say means absolutely nothing .

People who criticize think that what they are saying about you will effect you , thats their mistake , why ? They think you think the same as they do , and if something was said about them they would be destroyed so they think you must feel the same .

What they fail to realize is you don't think like them and take things very differently . They do not have the self worth and confidence you do is why , they are extremely troubled inside and vulnerable and when you are always in that state of mind everything hurts .

Thats why so many stick in groups and clics , thought i would explain that for those that might not understand .


So yeah i guess you can say i look forward to shitstorm's and this was an over the top one imo , no need to kill a guy who wasn't even around to defend himself . I am not defending or approving of his advocacy stuff , i am talking about him being "belittled" which supposedly is a rule thats not allowed here .


How about just saying how you disagree with Rogers stance instead of commenting about what his character must be like and what the exact definition is of what Rogers departure means , i mean please.......
 
Last edited:

VH fan

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First thing i would like to say is "bravo" to Joe and Tom for recognizing that VU was not just another forum and not allowing it to become just one of the others where every thread was starting to be locked because someone didn't like how it was going .

I was chuckling and shaking my head in disbelief last night after i tried to respond but found it was locked again so quickly . Now about the quote below :

By advocating for him, all you're doing is heaping the ensuing shit storm this thread will generate on yourself.

If you knew how i was your above comment would of been left out because if you think i actually care about stirring up a "shitstorm" you clearly don't have any clue of what i'm about , when your not afraid to speak your mind and always call out BS when you see it , thats what happens .

Now for those that can't tolerate the truth or being confronted with things that will likely hit deep , i would advise for you to move on but i thought why not tell exactly how it is and what i find so common in todays World and it's sad.

These days most people generate little gangs or clic's and live on just complaining about everything and anything as long as it's not their own deficiencies .

Fact is most people much prefer to feel like they are accepted and a part of something already stable , it's human behavior 101 lol.

People in these groups tend to just talk about why others peoples views are wrong , why this person shouldn't have done that or this and so on, these types i am convinced don't even realize how hypocritical their behavior really is . You want close minded and unwilling to accept peoples differences , well these groups emulate it .

Individuals who gravitate to these groups are generally very stubborn in real life , very unsure of themselves with extremely low self esteem , most have been severely bullied during childhood , have repeated failed marriages and relationships and have not had a very happy existence , it's always someone else's fault lol.

By clic's and groups i am referring to any type of gathering of people who are actually quite different from each other but constantly approve what the others comment on (even real dumb stuff )and say things that make them appear as one .

Not all that unlike a prison gang where one needs to become a member for protection and a sense of acceptance even though they really don't agree with all the views but need to come across as they do .


Thats my biggest gripe with them by far , if they weren't always so negative and individuals weren't so transparent trying to make sure the group continues to accept them they would be fine.

I should say that some who are involved in these clics are perceptive enough and realize whats going on and usually break free from it for awhile and sometimes permanently , others are so filled with self doubt that they never leave and need constant reassurance from a group , all very predictable .

There's a big reason why i have always preferred to keep my distance from these things and why i just never wanted to stay longer than a few minutes at a time in them . Just not my thing , never has been though.

Being unique and different and knowing your self worth is a truly liberating and fantastic feeling , many need extensive therapy to break out of these thinking patterns and some never break free from it .


Whatever you do , never let what others say about you to bother you , people will always disagree and not everybody is going to like your style and individuality . If your confident in who you are and have strong convictions what others say means absolutely nothing .

People who criticize think that what they are saying about you will effect you , thats their mistake , why ? Because if the same was said about them it would eat them up inside .

They do not have the self worth and confidence you do is why , they are extremely troubled inside and vulnerable and when you are always in that state of mind everything hurts . Thats why so many stick in groups and clics , thought i would explain that for those that might not understand .


So yeah i guess you can say i look forward to shitstorm's and this was an over the top one imo , no need to kill a guy who wasn't even around to defend himself . I am not defending or approving of his advocacy stuff , i am talking about him being "belittled" which supposedly is a rule thats not allowed here .


How about just saying how you disagree with Rogers stance instead of commenting about what his character must be like and what the exact definition is of what Rogers departure means , i mean please.......


Not going to be a popular post but somebody had to say it and i'm glad i did .

See ya everybody
 

MKPM

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Anything not worth saying, is not worth saying twice........and it is CLIQUE.
 

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