Throat and Lung Hit

Discussion in 'Forum Topic/section requests' started by Lmatthews123, May 14, 2019 at 5:09 PM.

Tags:
  1. Lmatthews123

    Lmatthews123 New Member

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Tuesday
    Messages:
    14
    Hello all,

    Hello all I am new to this forum and excited to be here. We have a new product that is made from synthetic nicotine and uses only trace amounts of nicotine. We believe it will evolve the market as possibly won't be taxed or require an FDA pmta. We are having issues getting a viable throat and lung hit and are looking for help in working with our new liquid.

    We feel this is a very important product for the industry and would quite enjoy working with those here to further develop. Thank you for your time!

    Lisa
     
  2. Lmatthews123

    Lmatthews123 New Member

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Tuesday
    Messages:
    14
    Hello all,

    Hello all I am new to this forum and excited to be here. We have a new product that is made from synthetic nicotine and uses only trace amounts of nicotine. We believe it will evolve the market as possibly won't be taxed or require an FDA pmta. We are having issues getting a viable throat and lung hit and are looking for help in working with our new liquid.

    We feel this is a very important product for the industry and would quite enjoy working with those here to further develop. Thank you for your time!

    Lisa
     
  3. Theboss

    Theboss Silver Contributor ECF Refugee

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2018
    Messages:
    583
    Since the nic level in my juice is the determining factor in the throat hit, I'm not sure how you'd increase it in your formula.

    Welcome to the forum and good luck!
     
  4. PuffOn

    PuffOn Bronze Contributor Member For 4 Years

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2014
    Messages:
    392
    You better go back and read the FDA documents.
    They have synthetic nicotine covered.
    It will require a PMTA.
     
  5. Lmatthews123

    Lmatthews123 New Member

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Tuesday
    Messages:
    14
    Thank you for your input. When our liquid is tested the only thing that's detected is propylene glycol and flavors. Nicotine is not detected and it is not from a tobacco or tobacco by product.. it is working very well to satisfy smokers and Vapors. We would just like to increase the throat and lung hit and wondered if anybody knew how to do that without using free base or tfn?
     
  6. PuffOn

    PuffOn Bronze Contributor Member For 4 Years

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2014
    Messages:
    392
    If it's sold in a vape shop it will still be classified as a "tobacco" product.
    Just like a metal atomizer screw is classified as a "tobacco" product, if sold in a vape shop/online store.
    This applies to the US market only.

    Some flavorings can increase throat hit.
     
    MyMagicMist and Letitia9 like this.
  7. SteveS45

    SteveS45 Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2016
    Messages:
    16,713
    Since the FDA Deemed coils and electronics in a vaping MOD a Tobacco Product you need top rethink your Business plan. Zero Nicotine is also Deemed a Tobacco Product. I am still waiting for the FDA to call me and explain how electronics components and metal are Tobacco Products~!
     
    MyMagicMist likes this.
  8. Lmatthews123

    Lmatthews123 New Member

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Tuesday
    Messages:
    14
    We and the industry have to either relitigate non tobacco based products not being covered tobacco products or further work with the FDA in creating new pathways for our industry to advance vaping technologies. We believe our non tobacco and non nicotine based liquids are one such product. They are testing effective just have to kick up the throat lung hit....
     
  9. SteveS45

    SteveS45 Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2016
    Messages:
    16,713
    When you get the FDA Fucking assholes to admit NDS or MOD's and Tanks or Coils arent't Tobacco Products I will stand with you and behind you and advocate like I do NOW>
     
  10. Lmatthews123

    Lmatthews123 New Member

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Tuesday
    Messages:
    14
    We did....Sottera v the FDA.....
     
    Letitia9 likes this.
  11. SteveS45

    SteveS45 Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2016
    Messages:
    16,713
    Post a link please.............
     
  12. Letitia9

    Letitia9 Therion/Nano Junkie VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 1 Year VU Challenge Team

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2017
    Messages:
    5,031
    I use salts to avoid th myself, might want to test both th formula and no th formula. Citric acid will add th and FA has a th flavor called Flash.
     
    iVape likes this.
  13. Letitia9

    Letitia9 Therion/Nano Junkie VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 1 Year VU Challenge Team

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2017
    Messages:
    5,031
    Please ask the mods to merge your two threads.
    Welcome to VU
     
  14. Lmatthews123

    Lmatthews123 New Member

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Tuesday
    Messages:
    14
  15. Letitia9

    Letitia9 Therion/Nano Junkie VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 1 Year VU Challenge Team

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2017
    Messages:
    5,031
  16. Letitia9

    Letitia9 Therion/Nano Junkie VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 1 Year VU Challenge Team

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2017
    Messages:
    5,031
  17. Lmatthews123

    Lmatthews123 New Member

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Tuesday
    Messages:
    14
    "The court stated that products made or derived from tobacco can be regulated under the FD&C Act’s “tobacco product”

    The FDA agreed on appeal and stated they will not appeal to the Supreme Court. They were going to pull all e vapor products from the market as drug devices and we beat them. Without our litigation there would not be a vapor Market domestically. We also worked in the European Union with TPD 1 and 2. We are not corporations but family-owned companies that brought this action. We can do it again.
     
    SteveS45 likes this.
  18. Letitia9

    Letitia9 Therion/Nano Junkie VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 1 Year VU Challenge Team

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2017
    Messages:
    5,031
    So your product will still be labeled as tobacco in the US.
     
    PuffOn and NGAHaze like this.
  19. NGAHaze

    NGAHaze Gold Contributor Member For 4 Years

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2014
    Messages:
    2,309
    That decision back in 2010 did indeed save the vapor market at the time however it has not deterred the FDA from implementing new regulations it has since then 'deemed' that could potentially decimate the industry yet again. Personally I don't see how they can get away with classifying products that don't contain any tobacco as 'tobacco products' but, as has already been mentioned here, that is exactly what they have done and so far at least, nothing appears imminent that might alter that position ... sadly.
     
    The Cromwell, PuffOn and Letitia9 like this.
  20. Lmatthews123

    Lmatthews123 New Member

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Tuesday
    Messages:
    14
    Thank you for your replies. Our products contain no tobacco or tobacco by products and our nicotine is re-engineered so not detectable at all. It is simply propylene glycol and flavor so it is not a covered tobacco product. Will they argue? Yes. Will California with their SB5 Stake Act say anything vaporized is a tobacco product? Yes. So we do what we did in 2008, 2009, 2010; bring products to market sell them quickly take reserves and litigate. Governmental Regulators can do whatever they want. We have shown that we are able to make an argument successfully.
     
  21. Letitia9

    Letitia9 Therion/Nano Junkie VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 1 Year VU Challenge Team

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2017
    Messages:
    5,031
    Your first post states "uses only trace amounts of nicotine" therefore in the US it is a tobacco product. I wish you success but fear your confidence is not warranted.
     
    NGAHaze and The Cromwell like this.
  22. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell The Frugal Vapist VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2016
    Messages:
    28,401
    Ahh but that was superceeded by the FDA Deeming Regulations.
    ANYTHIING used in ENDS/ecigs or intended for use in ecigs IS a tobacco product per the FDA deeming regs.
    8-8-2016.
    The Sotttera decision was dated 2010.

    Even PG is a tobacco product when used in or marketed for use in ecigs.
    Micotine free ejuice is now a tobacco product as well.
    The Mods/battery units are tobacco products.
    The atomizers, etc.

    Please study the FDA Deeming regs.

    even flavorings marketed for use in vaping are tobacco produsts under the Deeming regs.
    If marketed for another purpose they are not, such as food or beverage flavoring.
     
    lak611 and Letitia9 like this.
  23. Lmatthews123

    Lmatthews123 New Member

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Tuesday
    Messages:
    14
    Juul is 50 mg/mL...Ours is .00000067 mg/mL. In 7 FDA registered lab tests our nic was undetecable and effective. We also have developed a closed system unit where the pod/cartridge is void of any heating hardware...simply e liquid in a biodegradable pod/cartridge. All heating elements are on the battery and last idefinately. You dispose and only pay for your liquid....not your heating element..
     
  24. Lmatthews123

    Lmatthews123 New Member

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Tuesday
    Messages:
    14
    We work with the FDA directly...more than I can post here. The FDA can regulate not legislate...
     
  25. Letitia9

    Letitia9 Therion/Nano Junkie VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 1 Year VU Challenge Team

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2017
    Messages:
    5,031
    So your product is going to be labeled as smoking cessation?
     
  26. Lmatthews123

    Lmatthews123 New Member

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Tuesday
    Messages:
    14
    Labeled only as an Alternative
     
    Letitia9 likes this.
  27. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell The Frugal Vapist VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2016
    Messages:
    28,401
    The FDA can issue stop sell orders and issue fines in excess of 1 million dollars.
    It is all in the Deeming regs.
    And so far the deeming regs have withstood a court challenge or two.

    You will require a PMTA from the FDA before your vape product can be legally sold in the USA.
    Unless it was sold on the US market prior to 2007.


     
    lak611 and Letitia9 like this.
  28. Letitia9

    Letitia9 Therion/Nano Junkie VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 1 Year VU Challenge Team

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2017
    Messages:
    5,031
    Alternative in US vernacular equals using oils or dry ****.:D
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 14, 2019 at 9:13 PM
    The Cromwell likes this.
  29. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell The Frugal Vapist VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2016
    Messages:
    28,401
    And yes lots (90+%?) of vape products are currently being illegally sold in the USA.
    The FDA suspended enforcement of the Deeming regs for a couple of years.
    But they can enforce any time they want.

    Unless the deeming regs are eliminated or greatly changed vaping in the USA is running out of time.
     
    Letitia9 likes this.
  30. Lmatthews123

    Lmatthews123 New Member

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Tuesday
    Messages:
    14
    Not necessarily. From the FDA:
    However, it’s possible that a disposable, closed system device that contains an e-liquid with truly zero nicotine (or synthetic nicotine) would not be regulated by the FDA as a tobacco product, if it is not intended or reasonably be expected to be used in such a fashion. FDA intends to make these determinations on a case-by-case basis, based on a totality of the circumstances
     
  31. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell The Frugal Vapist VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2016
    Messages:
    28,401
    True, that is what the PMTA process is about.
    And sealed closed systems are the ones most likely to be approved under the PMTA process.
     
    Letitia9 likes this.
  32. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell The Frugal Vapist VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2016
    Messages:
    28,401
    for myself I have bought enough vape hardware to last the rest of my life and only use rebuildable atomizers and have been 100% DIY for my ejuice for 4 years. Have enough nic in the freezer for 30 years.

    Sealed closed systems are not attractive to virtually anyone on vape boards.
    But could prove a way to get off of smoking for many so I am not against them.

    I am however having trouble understanding how non detectable nicotine can help with nicotine addiction/habit.

    Sounds like you have a new drug which acts on the body like nicotine and will require FDA approval and testing as a drug ie NRT or smoking cessation drug like Chantix.

    I tried all the NRT's and cessation drugs on the market and nothing worked for me except vaping. 30+ yr 1.5 PAD smoker now 4+ years smoke free due to vaping.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2019 at 8:59 PM
  33. Lmatthews123

    Lmatthews123 New Member

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Tuesday
    Messages:
    14
    True...in process the FDA states in deeming only a closed system would be considered.. not coponents.
     
    Letitia9 likes this.
  34. Lmatthews123

    Lmatthews123 New Member

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Tuesday
    Messages:
    14
    Cromwell...great to know Vapers are out there like you that are quite aware
     
    Letitia9 and The Cromwell like this.
  35. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell The Frugal Vapist VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2016
    Messages:
    28,401
    The vast majority of vapers in the USA are not aware of the coming end of legal open system vaping in the USA.
    Most vape shops do not educate users on it.
    And the majority of vapers in the USA do not frequent Vape boards.
    A high percentage of those on vape boards are pretty well aware of the Deeming regs and their implications for vaping.

    Sadly only the taxing of vape products by states may save some form of vaping in the USA as the rules now stand.
    States will raise a roar if their tax revenue is cut off.

    BTW several states and such are taxing and regulating ALL vape products (even no nic juice) as tobacco products. And that is legislated on state and municipal levels.
    Not just a regulation.
     
    lak611 and Letitia9 like this.
  36. MrMeowgi

    MrMeowgi The Vapin' Drummer Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2015
    Messages:
    11,151
    Merged for easier access
     
    The Cromwell likes this.
  37. The Cromwell

    The Cromwell The Frugal Vapist VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2016
    Messages:
    28,401
    I wondered where those new posts came from.
    LOL
    I was confused.
     
    MrMeowgi likes this.
  38. MyMagicMist

    MyMagicMist Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

    Blog Posts:
    12
    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2016
    Messages:
    4,930
    All for "advances" that might help. That doesn't stop one from being a bit apprehensive.

    Kind of figured, ...

    Sounds like Placebo 52.

    Nichrome 80 resistance wire also, though I'm sure there is some way to walk around it like the Brits calling aluminum, ... alu -- min -- um to duck past importing us aluminum.

    Probably happen just after that Lucifage Rochilclave bloke tells me "Yes, affirmative. Hell has frozen over." Or maybe it'll happen after Bush Jr. reveals in full public view the "iron clad evidence" allegedly held proving Bin Laden had Jack to do with Jack, much less that his own (Bush Jr's) shoes were tied. Possibly we'll get the last mystery ingredient from Pink Slime Formula 66 before then too.

    Meanwhile, ...
    Shave the modern way
    No brush
    No lather
    No rub-in
    Big tube 35 cents drug stores
    Burnrma-Shave!
     
  39. jojo5353

    jojo5353 New Member

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Monday
    Messages:
    101
  40. MyMagicMist

    MyMagicMist Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

    Blog Posts:
    12
    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2016
    Messages:
    4,930
    Which will lead right back to big tobacco and we all know they'll play perfectly fair and transparent.

    Bottom line it's Whiskey Rebellion on repeat or the "same old song", you know it, "the rich get richer, poor get poorer".

    At the same time, been reading a bunch here and there, looking at some interesting videos. Kind of learning if you accept a paycheck that's on you. You could work for free just as easily, create investments such as property to provide housing, land for commercial / industrial zones to bring in work. Then you get passive income and if set up as a Limited S corporation you can pay taxes only on ROI profit, other profit gets set aside to not be taxed.

    Not quite the vitriol here once for the wealthy to have been had. Been seeing a different perspective & understanding it as well. Realizing I am at times taking a lazy path. Sorry if I have an open mind like that. As well as a mind that can hold two exclusive ideas together in it, and find common ground.

    I'm just too sane, probably. :)
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2019 at 1:37 PM
  41. jojo5353

    jojo5353 New Member

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Monday
    Messages:
    101
    increse the pg
     
  42. MyMagicMist

    MyMagicMist Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

    Blog Posts:
    12
    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2016
    Messages:
    4,930

Share This Page

Close This Message