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Too low ohms?

So I have the Smok H-priv 220w box mod and I'm running the Griffin 25+. I usually build 8-9 wrap 24g coils on a 2mm screwdriver and run them at about 50-60 watts. I wanted to switch it up a bit because I have the ability for extra power and build a quad coil setup on the Griffin. Two 8 wraps on top, two on bottom. I used steam engine to find these values using a desired resistance of .15. My question is, since the H-priv has a minimum resistance of .1 ohms, should I try to build higher, say shoot for .2? What is the safest way to go about doing this?

Thanks!
 

xpen

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Adding more wraps to each coil, and/or using higher gauge wire and/or changing wire material altogether (you don't mention what wire material you're using, btw)
Regulated devices can normally cope with anomalies (short circuit, too low resistance, ...) but why look for trouble?
 

SirRichardRear

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So I have the Smok H-priv 220w box mod and I'm running the Griffin 25+. I usually build 8-9 wrap 24g coils on a 2mm screwdriver and run them at about 50-60 watts. I wanted to switch it up a bit because I have the ability for extra power and build a quad coil setup on the Griffin. Two 8 wraps on top, two on bottom. I used steam engine to find these values using a desired resistance of .15. My question is, since the H-priv has a minimum resistance of .1 ohms, should I try to build higher, say shoot for .2? What is the safest way to go about doing this?

Thanks!
it's a regulated mod so as long as you stay above .1 you'll be fine. realistically the best performance of mods is between .14 and .2 because lower then .14 and it hits amp limits and higher then .17 and voltage limit kicks in.
 

Raymcconn

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it's a regulated mod so as long as you stay above .1 you'll be fine. realistically the best performance of mods is between .14 and .2 because lower then .14 and it hits amp limits and higher then .17 and voltage limit kicks in.
This is a nice piece of info. Thanks.
 
I'm using a1 kanthal, sorry about that XD. I used a screwdriver that is 3mm in width instead and I built 4 8 wrap coils, which puts the resistance at around .19 ohms, which I think is just where I want to be. It should comfortably run at over 100 watts! Thanks for your help guys!
 

SirRichardRear

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I'm using a1 kanthal, sorry about that XD. I used a screwdriver that is 3mm in width instead and I built 4 8 wrap coils, which puts the resistance at around .19 ohms, which I think is just where I want to be. It should comfortably run at over 100 watts! Thanks for your help guys!
no problem :)
 

HondaDavidson

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it's a regulated mod so as long as you stay above .1 you'll be fine. realistically the best performance of mods is between .14 and .2 because lower then .14 and it hits amp limits and higher then .17 and voltage limit kicks in.
That's a very tight range and seem kinda low...... my mod fire full watts from .1 to 1.08 ohm... your saying best performance is at the low end of the scale. I would have guessed in the mid range around .4 .5 or so..

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conanthewarrior

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That's a very tight range and seem kinda low...... my mod fire full watts from .1 to 1.08 ohm... your saying best performance is at the low end of the scale. I would have guessed in the mid range around .4 .5 or so..

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It does depend on the mod in question and how much boost it will apply to provide the voltage for full range. Plus bucking is more efficient than boosting, although in the real world you might not notice much difference.

I agree it is quite a tight range, some mods are very picky though. The cuboid is one example, with its low amp limit and output voltage limits it is a rather tight range to build in to hit max power. For most of us this doesn't matter though, as we aren't running mods at full blast all the time :)
 

SirRichardRear

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That's a very tight range and seem kinda low...... my mod fire full watts from .1 to 1.08 ohm... your saying best performance is at the low end of the scale. I would have guessed in the mid range around .4 .5 or so..

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Remember what the screen says and what the mod actually outputs are 2 different thing. No mod is putting out 200 watts on a 1 ohm build so I'm not sure what u mean by that. That would take over 14 volts and no mod I'm aware of does that (at least not commercially produced ones) mods don't just have a watt limit. They also have an amp limit and volt limit. Some companies show those specs some dont. But super low resistance the amp limit kicks in and high resistance the volt limit kicks in.

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HondaDavidson

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Remember what the screen says and what the mod actually outputs are 2 different thing. No mod is putting out 200 watts on a 1 ohm build so I'm not sure what u mean by that. That would take over 14 volts and no mod I'm aware of does that (at least not commercially produced ones) mods don't just have a watt limit. They also have an amp limit and volt limit. Some companies show those specs some dont. But super low resistance the amp limit kicks in and high resistance the volt limit kicks in.

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I know I just never thought about how narrow ohm wise the max power range was for higher output mods. My pico 75 does 9volts... gives me 1ohm at the high end. I was under the impression the high wattage mods went to 12 to 14.... b u t they are built for higher watts at low voltage low ohm rather than high watts at high volts.

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SirRichardRear

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I know I just never thought about how narrow ohm wise the max power range was for higher output mods. My pico 75 does 9volts... gives me 1ohm at the high end. I was under the impression the high wattage mods went to 12 to 14.... b u t they are built for higher watts at low voltage low ohm rather than high watts at high volts.

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9 volts from a pico? Not saying that's not true as I don't have a pico but that seems way too high. most of the single and even dual battery mods have a 6 volt max. Some dual battery mods claim a 7.5 volt max. From what i can tell it's a joyetech chip like the kind used in the rx200 and vape forward flask. so maybe it could mean a 9v max in triple battery mode but i highly doubt the pico outputs 9 volts. Much like the specks listed for the primo say a 50 amp limit but it's not
 

HondaDavidson

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9 volts from a pico? Not saying that's not true as I don't have a pico but that seems way too high. most of the single and even dual battery mods have a 6 volt max. Some dual battery mods claim a 7.5 volt max. From what i can tell it's a joyetech chip like the kind used in the rx200 and vape forward flask. so maybe it could mean a 9v max in triple battery mode but i highly doubt the pico outputs 9 volts. Much like the specks listed for the primo say a 50 amp limit but it's not
I never tested it but that's what the spec says. I don't think I've run the thing above 6 volts yet... mostly I vape in the 3 to 5 volt range... mainly so I can switch back and forth between the pico and a mech without rebuilding.

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HondaDavidson

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I never tested it but that's what the spec says. I don't think I've run the thing above 6 volts yet... mostly I vape in the 3 to 5 volt range... mainly so I can switch back and forth between the pico and a mech without rebuilding.

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Just tried... batt is at 3.8volt charge... mod goes to 9v on display. But right now only fires to 7.8volts on 1.1ohm coil USB 7 on batt. Should go a little higher on full charge with a lower ohm.. 1.1 is beyond limit. But yeah I doubt 9v. I'll do an in spec coil see what I can get.

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SirRichardRear

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Just tried... batt is at 3.8volt charge... mod goes to 9v on display. But right now only fires to 7.8volts on 1.1ohm coil USB 7 on batt. Should go a little higher on full charge with a lower ohm.. 1.1 is beyond limit. But yeah I doubt 9v. I'll do an in spec coil see what I can get.

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cool. and yeah I just dont see it. i know since eleaf/joyetech/wismec all use the same chips they often list specs for the chips instead of the specs for the configuration. Like the evic primo says 50 amps but it won't do 50 amps because of the 2 battery config, but the RX300 will and I'm pretty sure it's the same chip. What are you using to measure the output voltage?
 

HondaDavidson

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cool. and yeah I just dont see it. i know since eleaf/joyetech/wismec all use the same chips they often list specs for the chips instead of the specs for the configuration. Like the evic primo says 50 amps but it won't do 50 amps because of the 2 battery config, but the RX300 will and I'm pretty sure it's the same chip. What are you using to measure the output voltage?
Just the mod meter at this point... 50 miles from an ohm meter right now. But I have some wire and cotton with me. And the fish aren't biting. So maybe I'll toss a little lower ohm coil on see what the mod says it's doing.

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SirRichardRear

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Just the mod meter at this point... 50 miles from an ohm meter right now. But I have some wire and cotton with me. And the fish aren't biting. So maybe I'll toss a little lower ohm coil on see what the mod says it's doing.

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oh yeah the mod meter doesn't mean much lol I don't have a pico to test but when joyetech limits to 6v on dual battery devices, I don't see how they could do 9 volts on single batt devices but then again who knows. maybe it has an amazing boost circuit lol
 

conanthewarrior

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oh yeah the mod meter doesn't mean much lol I don't have a pico to test but when joyetech limits to 6v on dual battery devices, I don't see how they could do 9 volts on single batt devices but then again who knows. maybe it has an amazing boost circuit lol

It is a large amount of boost, but it is possible, the DNA60 outputs 9V from a single 18650. With the DNA75 it is 6.2V, this was an intentional design limit though as it is their 'budget' board.

I haven't checked my Pico, although I will to see if it can output 9V. I don't usually build high resistance, high power builds, so will have to make something to fully test it out.

I realise the boards are similar used in the Joyetech/Eleaf/Wismec mods, but I am sure the Picos board is a bit different being designed for a lower input voltage so the boost circuit must be altered.

EDIT: I notice you mention the Primo and outputting 50A, but this is not possible due to the dual 18650 configuration. I just wondered exactly why it isn't possible though? As I know the DNA200's input fuse blows at 25A, but can output 50A constant or a 55A burst. Is it because of the lower input voltage of 2 vs 3 batteries this is not possible, as it is not stepping down from a higher voltage as in the 3X setups?

I have wondered for a long time if the Chinese manufacturers get confused when writing their manuals, as I remember with my IPV3 LI it mentioned a 45A output limit, but also needing 45A batteries.
It seems the people who write the manuals either do not understand the difference between input and output, or maybe it is lost in translation?
 

Iliketurtles

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You can check mod range on steam engine http://www.steam-engine.org/modrange.html for multiple battery series mods you will often find you need to build quite high to get max power - i.e about .25 ohms. Too low will require too many amps for the batteries as they in series and too high will require more voltage than you have from the batteries. So to get max power you need the highest amp draw that can be supplied at the highest voltage that can be supplied. Building lower ohms for more power is only relevant with parallel battery configurations as they can supply a bigger current draw.
 

conanthewarrior

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You can check mod range on steam engine http://www.steam-engine.org/modrange.html for multiple battery series mods you will often find you need to build quite high to get max power - i.e about .25 ohms. Too low will require too many amps for the batteries as they in series and too high will require more voltage than you have from the batteries. So to get max power you need the highest amp draw that can be supplied at the highest voltage that can be supplied. Building lower ohms for more power is only relevant with parallel battery configurations as they can supply a bigger current draw.
Good advice, just remember it isn't usually the batteries amp draw that is too high in a regulated mod as resistance doesn't effect the amp load on your batteries, it is watts that do.

You will likely hit the amp limit of the output stage of the mod though if you build too low, which isn't dangerous but just means you won't be able to fire as high as you might like.
 

conanthewarrior

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Steamengine doesn't list the pico... so with out testing via meter your still guessing.

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I do imagine it could put out 9V, unless there is an error in the manual.

I do wonder what limit was hit to stop it at 7.8V for you though with a 1.1 Ohm coil. That is still a very respectable 55W though, which I think is great seeing how small and competitively priced the pico is.
 

KingPin!

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0.29 ohm is best balance for mod according to steam engine but I don't go by this....

My experience on the HPriv usually target around 0.15 - 0.25 ohm but I vape at higher wattage than you

With 60w you can go all the way up to 0.6ohm and still get full range of batteries before low voltage kicks in a 6v

To calculate the voltage

Square root of Wattage (power) x resistence = voltage

Play around with resistences a different wattages once you get to about 5.6v stop (includes a buffer for internal battery sag) that'll be the max at the resistence you can use ;)

....any other people who aren't sure don't do this on a mechanical device peeps doesn't work in same way

Did a full article on this recently OP skip to post 2 if you already comfortable with the battery bit

http://vapingunderground.com/threads/regulated-mods-batteries-resistance-explained.314459/
 
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conanthewarrior

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0.29 ohm is best balance for mod according to steam engine but I don't go by this....

My experience on the HPriv usually target around 0.15 - 0.25 ohm but I vape at higher wattage than you

With 60w you can go all the way up to 0.6ohm and still get full range of batteries before low voltage kicks in a 6v

To calculate the voltage

Square root of Wattage (power) x resistence = voltage

Play around with resistences a different wattages once you get to about 5.6v stop (includes a buffer for internal battery sag) that'll be the max at the resistence you can use ;)

....any other people who aren't sure don't do this on a mechanical device peeps doesn't work in same way

Did a full article on this recently OP skip to post 2 if you already comfortable with the battery bit

http://vapingunderground.com/threads/regulated-mods-batteries-resistance-explained.314459/
I just read your guide, and I must say you have done a fantastic job there :).

I must ask though, I do have the H-Priv, and was under the impression it had a rather low cut off of 2.8V per cell? I assumed this due to the Alien cutting of at this level, which may make the amp load a fair bit higher than a mod that cuts off at say 3.2V a cell.

I read a really thread over at the Evolv forums, showing how amp load is a lot higher than people may think for regulated mods, using the DNA75 and Escribe. Thankfully the maths we use still work out, of watts/cut off voltage/efficiency.

I usually end up around 0.25 myself due to my preferred wire being SS316L, and with 26G duals it turns out around here.

Something that does have me a little confused lately though- I notice most dual 18650 mods have a output voltage of around 7.5V, the H-Priv 8, while some single 18650 mods can boost up to 9V! I would of thought they would of used a good boost circuit to achieve a higher possible voltage, but realise a lot of mods are buck only.
 

HondaDavidson

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I just read your guide, and I must say you have done a fantastic job there :).

I must ask though, I do have the H-Priv, and was under the impression it had a rather low cut off of 2.8V per cell? I assumed this due to the Alien cutting of at this level, which may make the amp load a fair bit higher than a mod that cuts off at say 3.2V a cell.

I read a really thread over at the Evolv forums, showing how amp load is a lot higher than people may think for regulated mods, using the DNA75 and Escribe. Thankfully the maths we use still work out, of watts/cut off voltage/efficiency.

I usually end up around 0.25 myself due to my preferred wire being SS316L, and with 26G duals it turns out around here.

Something that does have me a little confused lately though- I notice most dual 18650 mods have a output voltage of around 7.5V, the H-Priv 8, while some single 18650 mods can boost up to 9V! I would of thought they would of used a good boost circuit to achieve a higher possible voltage, but realise a lot of mods are buck only.

The 18650 is a 3.7 volt rated batteries.. 2x3.7=7.4VOLTS.....

But yes some regulated are buck only some buck and boost. Seem to me that series regulated mods tend to be buck only. Some boost but most run within batter voltage. And parallel mods do more boosting.

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KingPin!

In my defence, I was left unsupervised ^^
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I just read your guide, and I must say you have done a fantastic job there :).

I must ask though, I do have the H-Priv, and was under the impression it had a rather low cut off of 2.8V per cell? I assumed this due to the Alien cutting of at this level, which may make the amp load a fair bit higher than a mod that cuts off at say 3.2V a cell.

I read a really thread over at the Evolv forums, showing how amp load is a lot higher than people may think for regulated mods, using the DNA75 and Escribe. Thankfully the maths we use still work out, of watts/cut off voltage/efficiency.

I usually end up around 0.25 myself due to my preferred wire being SS316L, and with 26G duals it turns out around here.

Something that does have me a little confused lately though- I notice most dual 18650 mods have a output voltage of around 7.5V, the H-Priv 8, while some single 18650 mods can boost up to 9V! I would of thought they would of used a good boost circuit to achieve a higher possible voltage, but realise a lot of mods are buck only.

Thanks matey ...:)

I'm sure Smok say 6v whenever I've plonked my batteries on the D4 at low voltage the lowest voltage I've seen per battery is 3.2v however I do err on this side of caution so 2.8v or 5.6v combined is where I calculate amp draw and low voltage as you said better to be over cautious than under i reckon
 

Iliketurtles

Silver Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Good advice, just remember it isn't usually the batteries amp draw that is too high in a regulated mod as resistance doesn't effect the amp load on your batteries, it is watts that do.

You will likely hit the amp limit of the output stage of the mod though if you build too low, which isn't dangerous but just means you won't be able to fire as high as you might like.

Resistance is important only when you are pushing for maximum power, because of the various limits the boards can only put out maximum power if the atomiser resistance is in a certain range. Knowing where that range is means you can build there and be pretty confident that you mod can power it in the way you want, even if that isn't at full power. On max power you won't get many hits anyway as the batteries won't stay at max for long and at the end of it all the batteries are your power source not the mod.
 

conanthewarrior

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Member For 4 Years
@HondaDavidson , I realise this, I just find it odd that single 18650 mods boost much higher than the input voltage, while many dual 18650 mods do not. It's only really my thoughts, but I would of imagined boost would of been available for more dual 18650 mods.
Then again it probably is because not many people vape high resistance coils at very high voltages, so it isn't really needed.

@Iliketurtles definitely, for me it doesn't matter as I never am pushing near a mods full power rating. I just meant in the sense that when you mentioned too low it will be too many amps for the batteries could be misunderstood as we are regulated, for example the DNA200 will only draw 24A from the batteries, and the fuse blows on the input side at 25A, but can output a constant 50A or 55A burst, so going low won't effect things on the battery side, and a build of 0.1 can still supply the full power.
This is a mod that is bucking from up too 12.6V though, so slightly different to the mod here which is working from a lower input voltage.
 

HondaDavidson

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Member For 4 Years
Yeah allot of the technical side is confusing at best.....

I just like to vape my vape.. so I get the gear I like that will do it. I know that if I vaped at above 30 watts ADV. I would want 2 or 3 battery mod..... just for the run time.......

I think coil and atty size is dictating design. High ohm coil that can handle high wattages tend to be HUGE. That might be where these 300 watt mods and 30mm plus toppers are headed.

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