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trouble making a good juice...

CloudyToday

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So! here we go :) new to DIY, have made a few juices following recipes, and they taste like crap...I'm not sure what the problem might be, maybe percentages ? I picked higher % flavoring recipes because of my 100% vg nic base

my first round of experiments was made with wizardlabs vg/pg and nic, I made my own mix of 6mg 100% vg nic

1st experiment was with peach steeped 1 week, then 2, no change in the longer it steeped, actually tasted ok on immediate vape test: I think it comes out to about 25/75 pg/vg (using e-juice me up calculator)
3.75 ml of nic
juicy peach (tfa) 12%
vanilla swirl (tfa) 10%
sweet and sour (tfa) 2%
cotton candy (tfa) 1%

steep result: crappy , no flavor at all, actually very harsh, seemed to ruin my atomizer, testing with kangertech emow battery and aspire 1.8 atomizer in K-1 glassomizer tank

another one I made was:
hazelnut (tfa) 8%
caramel (tfa) 8%
bourbon (LA) 8%

same base, same equipment, this one actually turned out ok, I don't like the strong bourbon, but assuming this can be adjusted, it was at least vapeable.

What I'm after is a Peach Rings type of flavor on the 1st one and then a Caramel Nutz by five star on the 2nd. Oh, and I also tried raspberry in place of Peach on the first one and it was equally bad.

Any suggestions ?
 

CloudyToday

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oh, I should also add that I switched to vaportek nic, and it was the same results on a 2nd test batch
 

RMarcusY

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juicy peach (tfa) 12%
vanilla swirl (tfa) 10%
sweet and sour (tfa) 2%
cotton candy (tfa) 1%
That's a total of 25% flavors, Try lowering them so you have a total of 10%
The juicy peach @ 10 is good as a stand alone flavor, so is the Vanilla swirl. The sweet and sour and cotton candy maybe need to cut in half also.
 
That's far too much concentrate, this can have an opposite effect of what you think and make a juice taste worse

I'd suggest, the easiest way of blending flavours, is to mix them up separately, start with 4-5% each,
Let them steep, then add more concentrate if needed.

Once you are happy with them as standalone flavours, then start blending them

Say, 10drops of each, together in a separate bottle, then add extra drops of whatever particular flavour you want to be dominant

Take notes of how much % of concentrate was used for the single flavours and then take notes of how many drops of each combined flavours are used

That way it is only a matter of referring to your notes to replicate the mix once you are happy with the end result

That's the easiest way I have found to do it, without losing too much concentrate and nic

I've been mixing for over 3 years now, so have tried many ways and failed many times, but it is extremely rewarding when you get a blend of flavours exactly the way you want it :)
 

RocketPuppy

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From what I've read, people seem to think that TFA's Juicy Peach needs another fruit flavor to enhance it. Some have instead suggested using a drop of real lemon juice or vinegar.

Like Marcus said, I would drop those percentages down. You might also find that the cotton candy mutes the flavor. I wouldn't use it unless you feel that the mix without out isn't sweet enough.

I'd try something like...
8% Juice Peach (and go up if it still needs more)
4% Vanilla Swirl
0.5-1% Sweet and Tart
 

CloudyToday

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ok i'll try it! thank you :)

as a stand alone, do I have to steep it for 2 weeks to find out ?
 
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MD_Boater

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Most flavors by themselves do not need steeping. They may change a little, but they taste pretty much what they are going to taste like forever right after a shake.
 

BigNasty

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if you were using sub standard cheap flav or 20-30% is in those ranges.
But TFA and FA no where near needing to be that high.
 

RocketPuppy

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Found this on ecf by tc1 Here

Peachaloupe Rings n' Cream

All flavors were TFA and I had to use a much longer quick steeping in order to get the flavors to settle. If you want to try this right away I suggest you shake it real well, place some boiling water in a cup, and drop the bottle in. Let stand in the cup for 5-10 mins then take out and let it breathe by unscrewing the cap and squeezing the bottle, screw the cap back on then shake real well, replace the water with more boiling water, drop. Do this 4-5 times minimum.
12% Juicy Peach
6% Cantaloupe
2% Sweet Cream

Smell: The smell is like opening a bag of candy peach rings with a little dehydrated cantaloupe mixed in.

Taste: If you exhale through your nose while drawing you get a pretty strong peach ring flavor with sweet cream (almost too strong for my taste). On a normal draw, you can taste the cream and sugar crawling to the back of the tongue. On exhale you get a creamy peach ring flavor with a slight cantaloupe on the back end.

If you wish to get more Cantaloupe out of this blend, simply lower the Juicy Peach and increase the Cantaloupe by a few %.


This is all from tc1...not rocketpuppy
 
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Most flavors by themselves do not need steeping. They may change a little, but they taste pretty much what they are going to taste like forever right after a shake.
I'd strongly disagree with you on that one mate

Some juices are, as you say ready straight away, many do need a steep, particularly tobacco and bakery type flavours

Just ask any vanilla custard fan

I have a toffee I mix that gets between 2-4 months steep, it becomes much richer with a steep

Many juices will give a chemical or floral taste if they haven't had time for the flavour molecules to infuse properly

But each to their own, whatever works for any individual is right
 

CloudyToday

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2-4 months?! holy crap :eek: thank you for the peachaloupe recipe i'll try it ! I'm getting so dizzy looking at all the posts lol :) I have a huge order building up in eliquid mart, I think the only thing I need now is brown sugar ( for some other recipes I want to try) and they don't have it :mad: lol
 

lirruping

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That's far too much concentrate, this can have an opposite effect of what you think and make a juice taste worse

I'd suggest, the easiest way of blending flavours, is to mix them up separately, start with 4-5% each,
Let them steep, then add more concentrate if needed.

Once you are happy with them as standalone flavours, then start blending them

Say, 10drops of each, together in a separate bottle, then add extra drops of whatever particular flavour you want to be dominant

Take notes of how much % of concentrate was used for the single flavours and then take notes of how many drops of each combined flavours are used

That way it is only a matter of referring to your notes to replicate the mix once you are happy with the end result

That's the easiest way I have found to do it, without losing too much concentrate and nic

I've been mixing for over 3 years now, so have tried many ways and failed many times, but it is extremely rewarding when you get a blend of flavours exactly the way you want it :)

I started out mixing this way several months ago when I came into a bunch of TFA and FW single flavor juices mixed at 30% strength. I would mix right in the clearo, adding in a few drops of this and that, plus some unflavored to dilute it down to total flavoring at around 10-15%

It was really, really great for getting familiar with those 20 or so flavors--especially because I had so little space to work in--but my notes became unwieldy. All those drops measurements, I guess--or, ok, possibly a disorganized mind. :)

I still haven't mastered converting these "recipes" so I can express them in a way other people can easily understand--as percentages of the whole. I'm embarrassed to say it, but I get very confused by the math.
 

CloudyToday

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so 2nite I tried juicy peach stand alone, 3ml, 40/60 pg/vg 0 nic, 8% juicy peach,( usually I do 100% vg nic and just equate the pg base of the concentrates into the mix, but I was told pg will carry the flavor better)....I heated it for 3mins under hot tap water to give it some viscosity for shaking..I shaked and shaked and shaked some more :D, tasted it, tasted nothing, sooo, I added another 8%, same ritual...tasted nothing.....added another 8%..same ritual lol...nothing, so now it's in my darkening box to steep....I'm worried though, because this is how all of my juice attempts have been tasting.. like nothing or just burn my throat or nose....I can taste commercial juice fine, but to vape those I use a nautilus....should I be looking at a different test method??
 

AmandaD

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so 2nite I tried juicy peach stand alone, 3ml, 40/60 pg/vg 0 nic, 8% juicy peach,( usually I do 100% vg nic and just equate the pg base of the concentrates into the mix, but I was told pg will carry the flavor better)....I heated it for 3mins under hot tap water to give it some viscosity for shaking..I shaked and shaked and shaked some more :D, tasted it, tasted nothing, sooo, I added another 8%, same ritual...tasted nothing.....added another 8%..same ritual lol...nothing, so now it's in my darkening box to steep....I'm worried though, because this is how all of my juice attempts have been tasting.. like nothing or just burn my throat or nose....I can taste commercial juice fine, but to vape those I use a nautilus....should I be looking at a different test method??

I suspect you're increasing too much at a time. If 8% is too low, 16% is probably too high and could have the opposite effect - try going up 2% at a time! Steeping will have pretty much no effect on a single fruit flavor.

Also is it possible you have vaper's tongue?
 

CloudyToday

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I suspect you're increasing too much at a time. If 8% is too low, 16% is probably too high and could have the opposite effect - try going up 2% at a time! Steeping will have pretty much no effect on a single fruit flavor.

Also is it possible you have vaper's tongue?

maybe a little bit at this point, been mixing and tasting the last 3 days, but I still taste my commercial juice, so I'm not sure....
 

RocketPuppy

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maybe a little bit at this point, been mixing and tasting the last 3 days, but I still taste my commercial juice, so I'm not sure....
Try adding a drop or two of lemon juice or vinegar.
 

CloudyToday

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Try adding a drop or two of lemon juice or vinegar.
I added 1 drop of apple cider vinegar, it smoothed it out as far as the feeling in my mouth, throat and nose but I still can't taste anything:mad:
Amanda might be right, vaper's tongue :(

Edit: ya, I think it is, now I can't taste my commercial stuff either, great, just great ! lol thanks everyone for your help, I really appreciate it..I'll give it a rest for a few days and try again.
 
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wally

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Vanilla swirl, 1% is a lot and hazelnut 1% is a lot. Caramel not as bad but needs to come down a lot. Sometimes if my nose won't tell me then I will try it on it's own start 1% let sit for 30 min sample for while. I will make 3 or four ml if I don't want to waist it just add it to the final result.
 

Huckleberried

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Less is usually more with flavoring. Stay hydrated. Best cure I've run across for vaper's tongue is time. Staying hydrated all the time keeps it at bay.

If you're jumping into FlavourArt with your eliquidmart order, start those much lower.
 

Huckleberried

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Seriously, you can't keep a bottle of water at your desk? Well, how much does that suck? I'll come out there and give them a piece of my mind! I will.
 

VinceV1

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Some flavors don't mix well or need others flavors to pop. 25%-30% is not uncommon. Profesionnal juices can sometimes reach 40%. The brand used makes a big difference in that level.
 

CloudyToday

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Some flavors don't mix well or need others flavors to pop. 25%-30% is not uncommon. Profesionnal juices can sometimes reach 40%. The brand used makes a big difference in that level.
yes, I had read this somewhere too Vince, can't remember where now, and that high vg requires more then typically required, I really think it boils down to what the breaking point of the molecules of the flavors with the base is and one's own personal taste buddies
 

CloudyToday

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Just for the record ! lol :) I doooo drink ALOT of water! have known the importance of that way before vaping :) I think I might have a cold, been feeling kind of punky for a couple of weeks, but then again, I have basically vaped the same juices since I started, according to that article I might need to expand my horizons lol, our local store doesn't have much of anything I like though, they don't make their own, they just retail name brand juices, this is part of the reason I'm getting into DIY as I'm not crazy about most of the stuff that's out there. Just to give a couple of examples: Fuzion Prime's sugar munchkins and krankberry are good, but they are very dull to me and hard to draw from my tank. I do like G2 Vapor Mr. Cookie and Five Star caramel nutz and The King ( not sure who makes it, same people as Claim your throne). One other company I like is Make it Vapor, a lot of their flavors are pretty amazing, Peach Rings for one Raspberry Cookie and Bounty Hunter are among my favorites with them. ( Maybe this info will help to help me decipher what my problem is lol ) I tried to research what the pg/vg ratio's of these companies are, my thinking was maybe it's the ratio, but all these companies use different ratio's so I concluded that wasn't the problem. OH, and on the other end of the spectrum of what I didn't like, everyone raves about Suicide Bunny, and Halo I tried a few of what the store had and I wasn't impressed lol :)

Also someone that frequents the store said he just could not quit smoking until he got into dripping, he said it carries way more flavor and a better draw, My issue is not smoking, haven't smoked at all since I started vaping, but flavor and draw are...so what to do ? Am I just an oddball ? lol :(

edit: sorry for the long post
 

NGAHaze

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Your last name isn't Kardashian is it? lol ;)

How long has it been since you stopped smoking? I know that for me at least, it took a little while for my taste buds to return to where I could taste anything other than really strong flavors. That may be part of the issue and would seem to align with you being able to taste commercial juices as they seem to favor using the high flavor mix method for creating juice.

I also had a hard time tasting flavors in VG at first; even when mixed strongly, they just tasted blah. One thing that helped with that ( other than time to let my taste buds recover ) was to thin my VG slightly with distilled water, usually no more than 10 %.

Just a couple thoughts. :)
 

BigNasty

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I got mom to mix her first bottle this morning. I could barely focus out of the benidryl haze I have been in.
We just did it by drops so it could translate to her doing it.
she is super excited... I think she will be doing her own from now on.
 

CloudyToday

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Your last name isn't Kardashian is it? lol ;)

How long has it been since you stopped smoking? I know that for me at least, it took a little while for my taste buds to return to where I could taste anything other than really strong flavors. That may be part of the issue and would seem to align with you being able to taste commercial juices as they seem to favor using the high flavor mix method for creating juice.

I also had a hard time tasting flavors in VG at first; even when mixed strongly, they just tasted blah. One thing that helped with that ( other than time to let my taste buds recover ) was to thin my VG slightly with distilled water, usually no more than 10 %.

Just a couple thoughts. :)

Edit: OH and no, not Kardashian, no no no, I bring my own brand of Kim to KimK lol :D

Since Thanksgiving 2014, sooo 2months+-ish? How long does it take?! I'll try the distilled water 2nite
 
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wally

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Some flavors don't mix well or need others flavors to pop. 25%-30% is not uncommon. Profesionnal juices can sometimes reach 40%. The brand used makes a big difference in that level.
If I had to use 40% I would never buy from that company again and I sure don't think my customers could handle that kind of vape. Where do you see people doing this. I have been mixing for years I have seen where very few mixed up to 20 % and people complained of the % amount and questioned the strengths. I have always found more is less and steep times increase to several months. I have done a few experiments with a few lessor flavors like ry4d from 7% to 15% no difference other than longer steep time to relieve the harshness but flavor no stronger or better. NF butterscotch (weak flavor) 5% much stronger than 21% Hands down. NF Toffee same results as butterscotch. Finally decided the Professionals were right all along and think about it the best flavors are usually made with 4 to 8 or more flavors you would not have room for this even one at 20 does not leave you room . Now if you do this to the stronger flavors like vanilla swirl or caramel or most of the flavors out there your just going to be wasting flavors and time. Just look at the recipes of the ones that really know what they are doing and look at the percentages this ought to clue you in on what people like and how to make a quality vape.
 

CloudyToday

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Less is usually more with flavoring. Stay hydrated. Best cure I've run across for vaper's tongue is time. Staying hydrated all the time keeps it at bay.

If you're jumping into FlavourArt with your eliquidmart order, start those much lower.

Placed my order last night :) should have it by Saturday or Monday at the latest I guess :)
 

VinceV1

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If I had to use 40% I would never buy from that company again
You probably had this kind of vape with some popular juices :) FA and NF allow less flavoring but with FW and CAP, you just can't make complex juices at 20% (when a single flavor needs 15%...). Less is more works well with many vapers, but ex heavy smokers will naturally raise percentage from what I observed. But, some flavors are saturated at X level, and using more will not improve them. I totally agree on that !
 
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VinceV1

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Just look at the recipes of the ones that really know what they are doing and look at the percentages this ought to clue you in on what people like and how to make a quality vape.

A quality vape is the one that suits the vaper involved, so this is also a matter of personal taste.
 
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wally

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A quality vape is the one that suits the vaper involved. This is more a matter of personal taste.
Be surprised how the best quality vg, pg, and nic will make the juice so much better and combination of flavors with the right percentages make. So not just personal taste by a long shot.
 

VinceV1

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Be surprised how the best quality vg, pg, and nic will make the juice so much better and combination of flavors with the right percentages make. So not just personal taste by a long shot.
Absolutely ! And...intensity is subjective.
 

CloudyToday

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Be surprised how the best quality vg, pg, and nic will make the juice so much better and combination of flavors with the right percentages make. So not just personal taste by a long shot.

that brings up the question for me then of what is the "best" quality out there for just plain vg and pg ? I've been told wizard labs and then a company called nature's oil
 

wally

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that brings up the question for me then of what is the "best" quality out there for just plain vg and pg ? I've been told wizard labs and then a company called nature's oil
I Use wizard just read there information and they make it per order.
 

wally

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A lot of people like Essential Depot.
They seem good also. Afraid to venture because people who buy from me may not like the flavor so don't want to get stuck with a lot, but I would trust them. Can't think of others though.
 

Jgoss

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I use essential depot products by the gallon. The VG is very clean, sweet, and neutral. The PG seems good too, but I don't use it except to make sweeteners so i'm not the best judge of it. They also have a great price. It's hard to beat 2 gallons for 50$ with free shipping.
 

CloudyToday

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I use essential depot products by the gallon. The VG is very clean, sweet, and neutral. The PG seems good too, but I don't use it except to make sweeteners so i'm not the best judge of it. They also have a great price. It's hard to beat 2 gallons for 50$ with free shipping.
ok cool, i'll try them next go around :)
 

CloudyToday

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sooo, I got all my stuff and I tried Hic's Ferrero Rocher recipe, I followed it exactly as posted and I could actually taste some hints of what it was meant to be, so I guess that is good news :) It still isn't full on flavor for me yet, but I think it's heading in the right direction
 

AmandaD

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sooo, I got all my stuff and I tried Hic's Ferrero Rocher recipe, I followed it exactly as posted and I could actually taste some hints of what it was meant to be, so I guess that is good news :) It still isn't full on flavor for me yet, but I think it's heading in the right direction

I sometimes increase the overall percentage of flavoring in some of HICs recipes. They're extremely good, but sometimes a little light for my tastebuds!
 

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