Become a Patron!

Vapin Greek and Phil B

Browncoat

Silver Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Member For 3 Years
Vape Media
Not buying it. There's something else going on in China. All the hobnobbing and smiley-faced handshakes are a smokescreen for what's hatching behind the scenes.

There's no logic behind two US reviewers being invited to a Chinese safety meeting.
 

driver379

Bronze Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Member For 3 Years
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
Member For 5 Years
IDK I love a good conspiracy but just not seeing this one.
 

Iamme

Silver Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Member For 3 Years
Not buying it. There's something else going on in China. All the hobnobbing and smiley-faced handshakes are a smokescreen for what's hatching behind the scenes.

There's no logic behind two US reviewers being invited to a Chinese safety meeting.


I agree. This doesn't make since and why of all reviewers would it be the vaping Greek? PB I could see, but why just those two. My guess is the Greek geld on to the coattails to get there. This all seems strange to me. It smells fishy to me. Just doesn't seem right. I honestly think that there are some wolves in sheeps clothing in the vapong community. I wont say who, but there is a few.
 

freemind

Gold Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Member For 3 Years
Yeah, I agree with @V4P3R eMAG . Something smells fishy here.

While Phil and Dmitri are somewhat popular reviewers that's kinds where it ends for those two. Dmitri may be an advocate also, but WTF does China care about US politics? They have no influence over vaping laws. And neither of those two are involved in law making or lobbying.

I just don't know what to make of it all. It's not like we will get the uncut version either.
 

Browncoat

Silver Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Member For 3 Years
Vape Media
It's more than just those two. They were the "publicly invited" duo, but someone else has been showing up in photos, which makes this all the more interesting. I'm working on finalizing an article that should be up tonight or early tomorrow with more details. I'll link it when it's finished.
 

Zamazam

Evil Vulcan's do it with Logic
VU Donator
Platinum Contributor
Member For 5 Years
From the article: What's Really Going On in China?

"The Tech-Sharing Theory

With high powered regulated devices on the rise, Evolv and Hana have a vested interest in a collaboration with Chinese manufacturers. The presence of representatives from these companies suggests that there is definitely more going on here than just presentations about CE ratings and device safety."


There is a hell of a lot more going on than tech sharing in my opinion. Evolv and Hana have had their asses handed to them by China's ability to quickly spin up clones and high watt apv technology. What has not been discussed is collusion with pricing structures, Hana still sells their DNA40 aluminum box for over $250, many DNA 40 devices are north of $200. They can't compete with $50 iStick 50 watt APV's, so naturally US tech manufacturers want to stifle the low pricing structures so they can make more money in the market. It's illegal as all get out if they are doing this, price fixing is serious anti competitive stuff.

I'm willing to look at the option that both Evolv and Hana are looking at a way to have their tech licensed and made in China, but shipped back here and sold under their companies names. Capitalism at its finest.

Busardo's ties to Evolv and Provari are well known. He's even done a video for Provari on setup and use of the Provari v2.5. Dimitris Agrafiotis is still a big question mark. He owns part of a vape shop, but his angle is a bit more veiled that Busardo's.

In the end it's going to mean big paychecks for either association executives, or shadow partners in upcoming technology. I don't expect Busardo or Agrafiotis to fully describe what went on, possibly due to restrictive covenants, or possible impact to some big time moolah that may come their way.

Busardo's upcoming reviews and videos are going to be dissected by folks looking for anything relating to his business relationships and a conflict of interest. I'd take his videos with a grain of salt going forward, just my humble opinion.
 
Last edited:

Midniteoyl

Gold Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Member For 3 Years
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
Member For 5 Years
'If you cant beat them.... '
 

BigNasty

Diamond Contributor
Member For 4 Years
ECF Refugee
Price fixing and fucking shipped in thai lady boys selling us down the river as a whole so that motherfucker hana can rip us off branding shitty clones.
Fuck the lot of them and hope people stop buying their shit.

Hana has been a year almost past his prime. The lawsuit bullshit cemented his fall to douche bag royal.
Evol did not evolve and fell flat in terms of evolution.
Provari is still stuck in 2012.

All that is really going on besides trying to price fix... is the chinese paid for them to go over there to laugh at the stupid greasy looking Americans promising them the world... why they sell them all out and under cut them to hell.
 

Zamazam

Evil Vulcan's do it with Logic
VU Donator
Platinum Contributor
Member For 5 Years
Maybe Evolv and Hana are there to sell or trade their tech to the Chinese?

That's a possibility with Evolv, Hana just takes Evolv boards and sticks them in anodized aluminum boxes. But why would the Chinese want to license, buy, or trade Evolv boards? YiHicigar is making accurate and decent high watt boards like the SX330, SX350, and others. All they need to do is add temp control for NI200 and they could put Evolv out of business. Perhaps the temp control that the DNA40 has might be implemented in future YiHi boards. I think Evolv might be looking to license the technology rather than have it replicated in China without compensation or license agreements. That makes sense from a business perspective.
 

MKPM

AMG
Diamond Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Member For 3 Years
Member For 2 Years
ECF Refugee
I am still feeling the greasy wonder twins sold us down the river.
That could in fact be the case. This is why when it comes to authentics...I only buy locally made, handcrafted mods.
 

MKPM

AMG
Diamond Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Member For 3 Years
Member For 2 Years
ECF Refugee
Busardo's reputation as an unbiased reviewer just took the shit. This is what happens when just a regular joe gets his cherries polished by hoards of slobbering lemmings....and turns into some self proclaimed superstar. My observation is that most of these "Vape Celebs" are now too good to hob nob with the people that put them there! On most of the streaming shows...unless you are a vendor, fellow "celeb" or have tits...you are a nobody. The cronyism and "We are now above you" attitude can only at some point drive a wedge in the community. Has anyone been individually thanked for the awards recently won??? Who actually WON those....the person named, or the organisation? Or the people that made it possible? I'm sorry, but I am not remotely inclined to kneel at the pedestal that these paper tigers put themselves upon......oh.....and I dont have tits.
 
Last edited:

Zamazam

Evil Vulcan's do it with Logic
VU Donator
Platinum Contributor
Member For 5 Years
Busardo's reputation as an unbiased reviewer just took the shit. This is what happens when just a regular joe gets his cherries polished by hoards of slobbering lemmings....and turns into some self proclaimed superstar. My observation is that most of these "Vape Celebs" are now too good to hob nob with the people that put them there! On most of the streaming shows...unless you are a vendor, fellow "celeb" or have tits...you are a nobody. The cronyism and "We are now above the" attitude can only at some point drive a wedge in the community. Has anyone been individually thanked for the awards recently won??? Who actually WON those....the person named, or the organisation? Or the people that made it possible? I'm sorry, but I am not remotely inclined to kneel at the pedestal that these paper tigers put themselves upon......oh.....and I dont have tits.

Vape celebs? Bwahahaha. Youtube posters who get vape gear for free to review and monetize the situation. Question them and they get all bent out of shape at how hard they have to work to make a video review with expensive battery tubes and the latest and greatest wunder-watt mod. I'm in agreement with you Franciscan on just about everything in your post, except you do have tits, just not female jiggly ones.:p
 

MKPM

AMG
Diamond Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Member For 3 Years
Member For 2 Years
ECF Refugee
Vape celebs? Bwahahaha. Youtube posters who get vape gear for free to review and monetize the situation. Question them and they get all bent out of shape at how hard they have to work to make a video review with expensive battery tubes and the latest and greatest wunder-watt mod. I'm in agreement with you Franciscan on just about everything in your post, except you do have tits, just not female jiggly ones.:p
Sure about that??
o5ThQKV.jpg
 

Midniteoyl

Gold Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Member For 3 Years
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
Member For 5 Years
Welcome to the newest vaping term: "Licensed Authentic Clone"
There is a precedence... its called 'licensing' and things built under one are known as 'built under license' and therefore not a 'clone' ;)

You know that all of the people buying Android devices because they 'hate Microsoft' are actually supporting MS? Muahahahah - https://www.google.com/search?q=MS+license+android&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

Why would Evolv NOT want to do the same kind of thing? :confused:

I'm just not really getting this hate.. The US tried. Fat fuck Elitists and price gouging ruined it (mostly). We are in a global economy, with global sales needed to survive.
 

Celtic Fog

Tir Na Nog
Gold Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Member For 3 Years
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
Member For 5 Years
LOL... Where are the tin foil hats when you need them?
Yeah, because there has never in the history been any form of collusion in this country. Organized crime does not exist. Price setting and market gouging stopped in the 1930's. No conspiracy has ever been proven true and most importantly, people who make public policy have nothing but the worlds best intentions in mind....always. Silly people with their ideas and thoughts. Can't we all just trust the feds, the rich and the famous to look out for our best interests, they have done so well for us so far.
 

freemind

Gold Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Member For 3 Years
Yeah, I am far from convinced, this meeting was just a chance to shake hands. Dmitri and Phil are really nobodies in the industry. But they do have influence.

It isn't "tin foil hat" territory folks. China has no use for either of these two, unless they plan to make them their useful idiots. Trust me, they read the boards, and know WTF is going on over here.

It's not like either of them have said much of anything, about what happened over there. So, why wouldn't that raise eyebrows?
 

MKPM

AMG
Diamond Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Member For 3 Years
Member For 2 Years
ECF Refugee
Yeah, I am far from convinced, this meeting was just a chance to shake hands. Dmitri and Phil are really nobodies in the industry. But they do have influence.

It isn't "tin foil hat" territory folks. China has no use for either of these two, unless they plan to make them their useful idiots. Trust me, they read the boards, and know WTF is going on over here.

It's not like either of them have said much of anything, about what happened over there. So, why wouldn't that raise eyebrows?
Useful Idiots that we unwittingly created....thus making ALL OF US useful idiots. That is the truth of it.
 

MKPM

AMG
Diamond Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Member For 3 Years
Member For 2 Years
ECF Refugee
I hate to cast stones at the golden calves....but we just want to vape.....yet the "You need me....you would not be able to have what you have without me" attitudes of the so-called "Vape Celebrities".....here included....is pretty insulting at times. The information disseminated to us is of value...but the egos that have been born of it are not. I will qualify my remarks by saying there are some humble ones out there....Grimm, Todd...and a certain few that are providing a service and not looking for internet stardom like @Nikkita6....but the rest have just ascended to their thrones and have little to do with anyone but their "peers". I wont name names...but I remember a certain one of these "Anointed ones" that was a complete NOBODY on ECF about a year ago......and you know who you are.
 

Midniteoyl

Gold Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Member For 3 Years
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
Member For 5 Years
I hate to cast stones at the golden calves....but we just want to vape.....yet the "You need me....you would not be able to have what you have without me" attitudes of the so-called "Vape Celebrities".....here included....is pretty insulting at times. The information disseminated to us is of value...but the egos that have been born of it are not. I will qualify my remarks by saying there are some humble ones out there....Grimm, Todd...and a certain few that are providing a service and not looking for internet stardom like @Nikkita6....but the rest have just ascended to their thrones and have little to do with anyone but their "peers". I wont name names...but I remember a certain one of these "Anointed ones" that was a complete NOBODY on ECF about a year ago......and you know who you are.
You can find Phils very first post on ECF still.... What a noob :D
 

moecat

Platinum Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Member For 3 Years
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
Member For 5 Years
I need reviewers' opinions like I need extra corn in my droppings. Personally, I've learned - and appreciated - more from the general membership here than from any idiot savant industry "insider."
 

Iamme

Silver Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Member For 3 Years
The thing about all this is that these U.S. Companies can not compete. The DNA 40 was months behind, well many thought/think that. Like others mentioned the price for the DNA mods are unreal. The price of the board is as much as some of the new Chinese mods coming out. U.S companies have D&R (development and research) usally China has S&C (steal and copy) these new high power chips coming out of china are not the average half ass attempt to steal American products. They are producing quality products that they are developing them selves. Plus they are affordable. Used DNA 30 mods are still running what an IPV3 and Sigelei 100 or 150 run new.


I have always thought that Phil had connections with companies though. Yes there is provari and evolve and they are U.S. Companies, but his connection to sigelei and innokin also sways made me wonder. He is the only reviewer that you see these Chinese mod makers listen to. He will say what his thumbs down are and then the V2 doesn't have those issues any longer. This is something that may have been in the works from many angles for some time now.
 

UncleRJ

Will write reviews for Beer!
Staff member
Senior Moderator
VU Donator
Platinum Contributor
Member For 4 Years
ECF Refugee
Reviewer
Moderator
Like most of us, I have watched Phil, Grimm, Rip and Todd's reviews. And they can indeed be helpful. However, I tend to look for written reviews with pictures (small words help as well) as mostly, I just am too impatient to watch the above go on for 30 to 45 minutes to get the 7 minutes of info that I am looking for. Tutorial Videos can be very helpful as well. But finding those that follow the KISS principle or more correctly the KISAS (Keep it simple and short) are few and far because of the need that so many have to "Showboat".

And then there are the self proclaimed expert vapers that seem to think we want to watch a video where the set is a dirty dorm room and you have recorded the review or whatever while high as a kite and shirtless.

I was once talking about the above issue to a good friend of mine and here was his public reply to me.

 

MD_Boater

Silver Contributor
Member For 4 Years
China has no use for either of these two, unless they plan to make them their useful idiots. Trust me, they read the boards, and know WTF is going on over here.
But again... These two only wield the influence that you give them. They aren't an "official" any damn thing. They are just 2 guys doing something that they seem to enjoy.

I have been vaping for 14 months and both of the devices I use every day were not ones that Phil recommended. I honestly don't "follow" any reviewer. I've only seen a few Dimitri videos.

It's not like either of them have said much of anything, about what happened over there. So, why wouldn't that raise eyebrows?
Why? Because even if they were trying to do something nefarious, there is nothing that they could possibly do that would negatively impact me. So help me understand what exactly it is that you are afraid of them doing. I just don't see it.
 

freemind

Gold Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Member For 3 Years
But again... These two only wield the influence that you give them. They aren't an "official" any damn thing. They are just 2 guys doing something that they seem to enjoy.

I have been vaping for 14 months and both of the devices I use every day were not ones that Phil recommended. I honestly don't "follow" any reviewer. I've only seen a few Dimitri videos.

Why? Because even if they were trying to do something nefarious, there is nothing that they could possibly do that would negatively impact me. So help me understand what exactly it is that you are afraid of them doing. I just don't see it.

Price fixing.
Colluding to squeeze out ANY competitors.
Colluding to appease the FDA and other regulatory agencies. While at the same time, putting themselves in a position that BT has enjoyed for some time.

Just to name a few.

The big names in vape manufacturing, couldn't give a shit about Phil or Dmitri unless they could use them for something. Period.

I honestly do NOT trust the intentions of China and the manufactures over there. Saftey is a low level priority to them, if it is even on their maps at all. Money and power, however, is at the very top of the priority list.
 

MD_Boater

Silver Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Price fixing.
Colluding to squeeze out ANY competitors.
Colluding to appease the FDA and other regulatory agencies. While at the same time, putting themselves in a position that BT has enjoyed for some time.
Just to name a few.
Thanks for taking the time to explain that. None of that bothers me anymore. Our own government did that already. Those are old tricks. It is also the reason we can't buy anything made here. If they price fix with the Chinese, I'll buy from Mexico, Canada, or make my own mod.
I honestly do NOT trust the intentions of China and the manufactures over there. Saftey is a low level priority to them, if it is even on their maps at all. Money and power, however, is at the very top of the priority list.
I honestly don't trust them, either. But I'm worried that they are going to attack us militarily. They can do whatever they want with the vape industry.

I'm going to start supplying vaping gear to the black market when the government screws up the legal one.
 

TruSound

Member For 4 Years
Member For 3 Years
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
Member For 5 Years
I highly doubt these guys traveled to China to just shake hands, talk about mod safety and eat fried rice...I'm sure it will all come to light very soon, vape world moves very quickly...personally though, I don't really care what they're doing over there, I know what I like and vape safe, IMO cloud chasing has become a sport and has little or nothing to do with what ECigs were meant to be.
 

BigNasty

Diamond Contributor
Member For 4 Years
ECF Refugee
I highly doubt these guys traveled to China to just shake hands, talk about mod safety and eat fried rice...I'm sure it will all come to light very soon, vape world moves very quickly...personally though, I don't really care what they're doing over there, I know what I like and vape safe, IMO cloud chasing has become a sport and has little or nothing to do with what ECigs were meant to be.
True but works for you does not work for me, you call how I and others vape a sport I call it staying off of tobacco.
 

TruSound

Member For 4 Years
Member For 3 Years
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
Member For 5 Years
True but works for you does not work for me, you call how I and others vape a sport I call it staying off of tobacco.

Vaping to stay off cigarettes might be the case for you as it is for me and many others, but you are no doubt aware there's plenty of kids these days that have never smoked a cigarette in their life and vape for sport because they think it's cool and it's what their buddies are doing...I've questioned many of the younger demographic customers at my local vape shop, asking them if they ever smoked cigarettes....many of them never did, and when they roll up for a dripper build I hear them tell the builder..." I just want to blow big clouds"
 

BigNasty

Diamond Contributor
Member For 4 Years
ECF Refugee
Vaping to stay off cigarettes might be the case for you as it is for me and many others, but you are no doubt aware there's plenty of kids these days that have never smoked a cigarette in their life and vape for sport because they think it's cool and it's what their buddies are doing...I've questioned many of the younger demographic customers at my local vape shop, asking them if they ever smoked cigarettes....many of them never did, and when they roll up for a dripper build I hear them tell the builder..." I just want to blow big clouds"
Those guys I wanna shake hard enough to make the sagging skinny jeans fall off. They give us all bad names.
 

TruSound

Member For 4 Years
Member For 3 Years
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
Member For 5 Years
Those guys I wanna shake hard enough to make the sagging skinny jeans fall off. They give us all bad names.

Couldn't agree more brother...Having been a heavy smoker myself for 35+ years the ECig saved me, I loved smoking and never thought I'd be able to quit, patches and nic gum were a no go for me, I got my first ECig 3.5 years ago...a Green Smoke cigalike mind you, the day it arrived I never touched another cigarette, I do like my nic buzz though...I've never used anything but 24mg strength.

So these kids that have never smoked and vape zero mg juice for cloud blowing is a little strange...I just don't see the point if you never smoked, but to each his own I guess.
 

Iamme

Silver Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Member For 3 Years
Couldn't agree more brother...Having been a heavy smoker myself for 35+ years the ECig saved me, I loved smoking and never thought I'd be able to quit, patches and nic gum were a no go for me, I got my first ECig 3.5 years ago...a Green Smoke cigalike mind you, the day it arrived I never touched another cigarette, I do like my nic buzz though...I've never used anything but 24mg strength.

So these kids that have never smoked and vape zero mg juice for cloud blowing is a little strange...I just don't see the point if you never smoked, but to each his own I guess.



You got that right sir. Only thing that kept me off cancer sticks is my vaping.


I don't know about vaping to blow clouds as a non smoker, seems odd to me too. My woman never smoked, she vapes. She uses no no Nic and it is funny of she inhales it because she coughs her ass off. She doesn't inhale it. She had a tank and my old A7 dripper. She vapes candy vapes and desert vape. Instead of snacking she takes a few puffs off her mod and it keeps her from hitting the fridge of cupboard. I know someone who is diabetic and does the same thing to not eat sweets and keep there sugar down. So there actually potential healthy legit reasons for vaping beside just us smokers quitting.

I think the nonsmokers cloud chasing is more fashion than any kind of function. To me it is like a person saying, hey I never drank, what's this NA beer all about.

It is America so while we all can, let them have their low octain clouds. I would like to swap one of their bottles of no nic with some 12mg onetime. Just so I can say, hehehe don't like really vaping, do ya?
 

BigNasty

Diamond Contributor
Member For 4 Years
ECF Refugee
You got that right sir. Only thing that kept me off cancer sticks is my vaping.


I don't know about vaping to blow clouds as a non smoker, seems odd to me too. My woman never smoked, she vapes. She uses no no Nic and it is funny of she inhales it because she coughs her ass off. She doesn't inhale it. She had a tank and my old A7 dripper. She vapes candy vapes and desert vape. Instead of snacking she takes a few puffs off her mod and it keeps her from hitting the fridge of cupboard. I know someone who is diabetic and does the same thing to not eat sweets and keep there sugar down. So there actually potential healthy legit reasons for vaping beside just us smokers quitting.

I think the nonsmokers cloud chasing is more fashion than any kind of function. To me it is like a person saying, hey I never drank, what's this NA beer all about.

It is America so while we all can, let them have their low octain clouds. I would like to swap one of their bottles of no nic with some 12mg onetime. Just so I can say, hehehe don't like really vaping, do ya?
3-6 would be enough for a 0 nic user to get sat on their ass plenty hard.
 

VU Sponsors

Top