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Vaping as a smoking cessation fails most of the time. From my observations

AndriaD

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Nicotine is not good for us either...you know that right?!


VAPE ON

It's quite useful in helping one focus attention, and also for prevention of Alzheimers, dementia, and possibly Parkinson's disease. Sounds pretty damn good to me.

Andria
 

ej1024

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It's quite useful in helping one focus attention, and also for prevention of Alzheimers, dementia, and possibly Parkinson's disease. Sounds pretty damn good to me.

Andria
Do you have any data or proof on this?


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AndriaD

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Do you have any data or proof on this?


VAPE ON

Do personally have it? Nope, not a scientist. But I have read of studies, done by people I felt were trustworthy, which indicate those very things. Do I have to convince you? Nope. Go look it up yourself.

Andria
 

ej1024

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Do personally have it? Nope, not a scientist. But I have read of studies, done by people I felt were trustworthy, which indicate those very things. Do I have to convince you? Nope. Go look it up yourself.

Andria
Don't say stuff like that if you don't have something to back it up....


VAPE ON
 

AndriaD

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Don't say stuff like that if you don't have something to back it up....


VAPE ON

I've seen plenty to back it up. You're saying crap with nothing to back it up, about nicotine being dangerous, or "not good for us". The dose makes the poison. All the rest is just ANTZ fantasy and disinformation. Nicotine is likely the safest chemical in a cigarette.

Andria
 

ej1024

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I've seen plenty to back it up. You're saying crap with nothing to back it up, about nicotine being dangerous, or "not good for us". The dose makes the poison. All the rest is just ANTZ fantasy and disinformation. Nicotine is likely the safest chemical in a cigarette.

Andria
Nicotine makes you angry?


VAPE ON
 

ej1024

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None of this studies/research prove anything. Nicotine is use for people that have early symptoms of dementia/MCI. It says it MIGHT slow the disease, but results are weak..
One trial was done to none smokers... I'm not trying to stir some shit on this thread nor troll...
Please keep it on topic...


VAPE ON
 

The Cromwell

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Wow
VAPING is an effective smoking cessation tool
But it didn't really make you quit stinkies correct?



VAPE ON
yes vaping is an effective smoking cessation tool.
But not for everyone.

All evidence so far indicates that nicotine in moderation is no more harmful than caffeine.
 

Tuluum

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If someone made a tank that came with.....
Two different Coil types. (one for high pg another for vg)
Two different RBA heads (one for high pg another for vg)
Two different air control rings (one for lung/mtl)
Two different drip tips, one wide bore one small bore

Something like that could work, maybe start out on the MTL, if that doesn't work you don't need to upgrade to go to sub-ohm just swap the parts... or even if you need to stealth vape you could switch it up.. it would be much more than a starter kit it would be more of a find your way kit...

I think you are spot on. I also hear the criticisms from other members, which Id like to address.

It might increase complexity, but things are already pretty intimidating for a newbie. Plus, I don't think either of us are suggesting every starter kit in the world would switch over to this "swiss army vape kit." Its just another option. One that, personally, I would have been all over when I began vaping.

Another is that some would just rather have a "proper" mtl, etc. tank. But, the reality is that when any of us started out, we didn't even know what "proper" is, much less whether or not we would like it best. Likewise, I doubt many have only bought the one mod and one tank we started on. That said, this could just as easily be addressed by including seperate clones, or something similar.

The core of the idea is another introductory approach to vaping. It may not be everyone's thing, but it likely would have helped me quit years earlier.

Plus, I don't think we have even begun to see the true innovation that could exist in atomizers. Or even the vaping market in general (gimme a python/c++ based programmable mod!). I absolutely feel that an atomizer as you describe it is feasible. Not only that, complexity and efficacy are design issues, and I dont feel its wise to determine what is possible based on what already exists!

I always like to remind myself that while criticism without solutions is incredibly easy, its also incredibly unproductive. I don't always succeed, but even if something isn't right for me, it may be exactly what someone else needs. My own input on what would make it work for myself may still not produce a product I would buy, but it might be the very factor that makes it perfection incarnate for another.
 

Canadian Vaper

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It says it MIGHT slow the disease, but results are weak..

Failure to interpolate the data correctly doesn't change the results, nobody said it was a cure for Alzheimer's or MCI, it's a possible treatment and according to the results of the studies it does have potential...
 

robot zombie

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Hmmm, interesting thread.

By the time I took up vaping, smoking was really fucking me up and I said to myself I was too young to be this sick all of the time - and that's what I was. I was physically sick from the constant abuse I was putting my body through and mentally sick for continuing to do it in spite of all of the guilt and suffering.

Having tried everything else multiple times and failed, I had a great sense of urgency - that feeling that I was crossing the point of no return scared me - made me want to be done with it by tomorrow. But I also knew that patience was a must. That's why I failed before, so the last time, I submitted myself to a fate of potentially long-term suffering and frustration for an ultimately bigger payoff.

Vaping offers you a more appealing compromise there - you don't have to think of it as quitting. But you still have to jump through the same sorts of hoops. Going in, I think a lot of people miss that. If you don't have the patience to learn about and get acclimated to vaping, I don't think anything can help you. You don't have what you need to succeed... ...and I ain't talkin about your rig! Vaping, like any other cessation method, is a tool that you use to help yourself. And that's all that it is. You have to help yourself. No easy outs. It doesn't work for you - you work for it.

It's not as simple as the barrier to entry to vaping being too high. If anything, it is lower than ever before. It's just that quitting is a monumental task in itself. The majority of smokers who try to quit fail, full stop.

Nothing can circumvent the need for patience and a willingness to step outside of your comfort zone, learn something new, change your thinking, and hell, completely change what gets you through your day. That's got nothing to do with the challenges vaping presents and everything to do with the challenges that we all face as addicts and plain old human beings. Has anybody who succeeded through vaping not been frustrated and dissatisfied as all hell?


I think there are better and worse paths to go down with regards to making the switch. Obviously anything that can make it easier is better, but I think there's a limit to how far just having the best stuff can take you. So many people start off with what should be the most ideal and easiest setups and still fail. I've seen it countless times over the years. 1 in 10 is about right. Why is that? Can't help but think it's not the gear. This problem is bigger than the efficacy of vaping.

I think it's more a problem with how people perceive it. You read and hear all of these testimonials from people who swear by it. Nobody seems to give themselves enough credit. Nobody talks about the dark side of it - what they went through to get where they are. It's easy to forget. I am guilty of this. We're all just happy to be freer and thankful for vaping and the role it played in our success, as well as how it continues to enrich our lives as an engrossing hobby and social experience. Staying free is easy for most of us, but we make getting there seem easier than it ever is.

People see us and our culture and think vaping is just going to solve their problems for them. Gets people thinking, "So if I just use what they use and do what they do, I can have what they have." It's not an assumption that ever leads to success. Problems come along and they aren't prepared. They start to think maybe they are different and that it isn't for them.

I think you kind of have to settle for a while and hold up your end of the bargain, no matter what you start off with. What setup you have is far from arbitrary, but it's only a small piece of the puzzle that you have to solve. For months, I hadn't smoked and I was still an addict. Point is, there are much more important things to be concerning yourself with than your gear. I always say find something that you can use and take the time to get used to it. Gear obsession can be a great distraction initially, but you can wind up setting yourself for failure by trying to find a magic bullet that doesn't exist.
 

pulsevape

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I think you are spot on. I also hear the criticisms from other members, which Id like to address.

It might increase complexity, but things are already pretty intimidating for a newbie. Plus, I don't think either of us are suggesting every starter kit in the world would switch over to this "swiss army vape kit." Its just another option. One that, personally, I would have been all over when I began vaping.

Another is that some would just rather have a "proper" mtl, etc. tank. But, the reality is that when any of us started out, we didn't even know what "proper" is, much less whether or not we would like it best. Likewise, I doubt many have only bought the one mod and one tank we started on. That said, this could just as easily be addressed by including seperate clones, or something similar.

The core of the idea is another introductory approach to vaping. It may not be everyone's thing, but it likely would have helped me quit years earlier.

Plus, I don't think we have even begun to see the true innovation that could exist in atomizers. Or even the vaping market in general (gimme a python/c++ based programmable mod!). I absolutely feel that an atomizer as you describe it is feasible. Not only that, complexity and efficacy are design issues, and I dont feel its wise to determine what is possible based on what already exists!

I always like to remind myself that while criticism without solutions is incredibly easy, its also incredibly unproductive. I don't always succeed, but even if something isn't right for me, it may be exactly what someone else needs. My own input on what would make it work for myself may still not produce a product I would buy, but it might be the very factor that makes it perfection incarnate for another.
You know frankly speaking to me...if you are not willing to learn how to build a ss mesh wick,build a coil, learn how to use an ohm meter and learn ohms law,learn about batteries....so that you can quit an addiction that is killing you and destroying your health in the process so that the quality of your life is shit and you can't walk a block without getting out of breath,....if you won't go to the trouble to learn how to vape ..,.then fuck you...keeping smoking.
 

AndriaD

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Absolutely stupendous.

Nothing can circumvent the need for patience and a willingness to step outside of your comfort zone, learn something new, change your thinking, and hell, completely change what gets you through your day. That's got nothing to do with the challenges vaping presents and everything to do with the challenges that we all face as addicts and plain old human beings. Has anybody who succeeded through vaping not been frustrated and dissatisfied as all hell?

I clearly remember facing exactly this sort of challenge, about learning to build coils. I was TERRIFIED of it. Then one day, it occurred to me that I had already done the absolutely scariest thing I could imagine -- going without cigarettes, at that time for several months. That being the case, I decided that maybe I should see what other new scary things I might be able to deal with. So I learned to build my own coils. Then I stepped outside the comfort zone again and tried some sweet vapes instead of tobacco -- and really haven't looked back. Then I thought that since the FDA was making noises about "doing something about vaping," I should probably learn to make my own ejuice -- and haven't looked back, though there's still one I'll buy, it's just that good.



I think it's more a problem with how people perceive it. You read and hear all of these testimonials from people who swear by it. Nobody seems to give themselves enough credit. Nobody talks about the dark side of it - what they went through to get where they are. It's easy to forget. I am guilty of this. We're all just happy to be freer and thankful for vaping and the role it played in our success, as well as how it continues to enrich our lives as an engrossing hobby and social experience. Staying free is easy for most of us, but we make getting there seem easier than it ever is.

That's true, and the point I keep trying to make, is that vaping won't, can't, MAKE you do anything. You have to do it yourself, with an act of will; vaping is there to keep you happy with that act of will. If you aren't ready to make that act of will, vaping will not do it for you. That's why, as helpful as WTA is for relieving horrible cravings and depression/anxiety, I absolutely DO NOT recommend it for someone who hasn't yet even quit smoking -- because WTA is also not a magic wand -- nothing can substitute for that act of will and commitment to it. Vaping, and WTA, are tools that make keeping that commitment a lot easier, that's all they are. They're miraculous and life-altering because until now, there was nothing like them available anywhere at any price. But they're still not a magic wand that will take you over and make you do anything.


So many people start off with what should be the most ideal and easiest setups and still fail. I've seen it countless times over the years. 1 in 10 is about right. Why is that? Can't help but think it's not the gear. This problem is bigger than the efficacy of vaping.

Yep. I started off with an eRoll, a refillable/rechargeable cigalike, and got all the way to quitting smoking,. My first full day smoke-free, I got a "real" vape: a vv3 and a Kanger T3S -- basically a pen-style vape, and because I had already reached the point of quitting, that pen-style sealed the deal. Sure, I got better stuff as I went along, but what got me to the commitment was a 90mAh cigalike that held .4ml. it was GOOD ENOUGH to substitute very well for real cigarettes; it was a proof of concept: this can really work. That was all I needed. Because I had wanted to quit smoking for DECADES, and had never been able to do so; I didn't even start vaping with the intention or expectation of quitting smoking; I just wanted to stay indoors -- but here was this PROOF OF CONCEPT, and it really did, really work.

Andria
 

Canadian Vaper

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You know frankly speaking
Some people's hands are absolutely useless at tasks which require a sturdy, steady hand, some people don't have enough engineering skills to even understand the concept of building a coil and would most likely build something that shorts, this is exactly why when most people hire a repairman to fix their washing machine that I instead order the parts and do it myself at the fraction of the price or to put it into vaping terms why some people use the TFV4 instead of RDA's

It's not always a matter of knowing how to do it, it's a lot of the time having the skill to do it and for some people that will never happen.
 

Tuluum

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You know frankly speaking to me...if you are not willing to learn how to build a ss mesh wick,build a coil, learn how to use an ohm meter and learn ohms law,learn about batteries....so that you can quit an addiction that is killing you and destroying your health in the process so that the quality of your life is shit and you can't walk a block without getting out of breath,....if you won't go to the trouble to learn how to vape ..,.then fuck you...keeping smoking.

I'm not entirely sure how that relates to my post, perhaps we are having some miscommunication..

I can't say I agree though. I don't think such knowledge or physical barriers are even relevant, honestly. There are just too many factors that could impede an individual from attaining an arbitrary level of knowledge or ability. I just don't see any positives or benefit to denying vaping to say, someone who is missing limbs or even someone who simply doesn't have the time to wrap their own coils.

I guess I don't see the point?

*shrug*
 

The Cromwell

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You know frankly speaking to me...if you are not willing to learn how to build a ss mesh wick,build a coil, learn how to use an ohm meter and learn ohms law,learn about batteries....so that you can quit an addiction that is killing you and destroying your health in the process so that the quality of your life is shit and you can't walk a block without getting out of breath,....if you won't go to the trouble to learn how to vape ..,.then fuck you...keeping smoking.
yep and that is where most smokers are.

How many won't quit the little debbies and Mcburgers and are dying of complications of obesity?
Humans as a species just aren't very smart.
And most are lazy as hell.

smoking is easy.
 

Mythical_OD

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I agree, vaping doesnt really work for a lot of people. Probably most actually. Just in my family, 4 of us have tried to quit long term cigarette habits with vaping, and Im the only one that made it. The others went right back to cigarettes or never quit in the first place.

And honestly, the only reason it worked for me was because I picked it up as a hobby and got quickly and heavily involved with the community and collecting and customizing. I think if it wasnt for the hobby aspect of it I would still be smoking.
 

pulsevape

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I'm not entirely sure how that relates to my post, perhaps we are having some miscommunication..

I can't say I agree though. I don't think such knowledge or physical barriers are even relevant, honestly. There are just too many factors that could impede an individual from attaining an arbitrary level of knowledge or ability. I just don't see any positives or benefit to denying vaping to say, someone who is missing limbs or even someone who simply doesn't have the time to wrap their own coils.

I guess I don't see the point?

*shrug*

could you be anymore obtuse, give it a try. or are you simpley trolling.
 

pulsevape

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Some people's hands are absolutely useless at tasks which require a sturdy, steady hand, some people don't have enough engineering skills to even understand the concept of building a coil and would most likely build something that shorts, this is exactly why when most people hire a repairman to fix their washing machine that I instead order the parts and do it myself at the fraction of the price or to put it into vaping terms why some people use the TFV4 instead of RDA's

It's not always a matter of knowing how to do it, it's a lot of the time having the skill to do it and for some people that will never happen.
then develop the fucking skill...we are talking life and death here..we are talking the quality of life here....go on youtube...go check out Mark Todds videos..one of the most experinced reviewers there is .....guy has been doing reviews since the start of vaping...and has vaped eveything from the start...gennys,drippers,GG's stuff, everything,and......he can't build for shit, and he admitts it..he was one of the worst builders around...but he gets the fucking job done and it gave him a great vape and over the years he has become a decent builder.....I don't know about you maybe I'm older and had been smoking longer, but I was desperte to get off smoking....it's not rocket science. You don't have to build an Alien coil or a fused clapton to get a great vape.
 
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Tuluum

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could you be anymore obtuse, give it a try. or are you simpley trolling.

Well, I'm certainly not too bright, but I do try. I really only perceive the world in swirls of color, sparkly things, whiz-bangs, pops, and clicks. It is arduous, but I persevere.

I still don't see the relevance to my post, especially considering some of the ideas would make some vaping options more advanced than anything currently available. Like I said, seems like miscommunication.

The full intent of my ideas are to expedite the transition from smoking to building on preferred individual, specific platforms. Expanding both the availability of a diversified starter kit, as well as the technical ceiling of products.

Its certainly fine if you feel vaping should be restricted to an arbitrary ruleset of your own making, but markets are not driven by such idealism.

Squirrel! :bliss:
 

Canadian Vaper

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then develop the fucking skill...we are talking life and death here..we are talking the quality of life here....go on youtube...go check out Mark Todds videos..one of the most experinced reviewers there is .....guy has been doing reviews since the start of vaping...and has vaped eveything from the start...gennys,drippers,GG's stuff, everything,and......he can't build for shit, and he admitts it..he was one of the worst builders around...but he gets the fucking job done and it gave him a great vape and over the years he has become a decent builder.....I don't know about you maybe I'm older and had been smoking longer, but I was desperte to get off smoking....it's not rocket science. You don't have to build an Alien coil or a fused clapton to get a great vape.
oh I know and I get it, I smoked for 22 years, tried quitting for 15 of those years, I was smoking 40-60 a day and by the end of it I felt like I was dying every breath I took but not everyone is at that point, hell most people doubt that vaping will even work for them because like me nothing else did and will give up long before they even think about diy coils which is why I think a tank like I suggested not a starter tank a find your way tank has a place in this industry, it's a proven fact that when someone tries multiple vapor products the chances of them being able to quit smoking increases significantly, the kit would include those options from MTL to Subohm to build your own coils, it's including just about everything you are suggesting!
 

The Cromwell

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That's some cold shit
yep cold but true.
It is how I see the 9 out of 10 that fail in substituting vaping for smoking.
Either do not want to put for the the effort to learn about vaping or just not smart enough.
I try my best to educate but many just do not want to learn.
I guess it is kind of like someone trying to teach me how to enjoy watching humans play football?
Not gonna happen as I have no interest in being a spectator to sports. Playing them now I enjoy.

As I said vaping will work for some and has worked for most everyone on here.
But we are a minor number of people who have tried vaping.
 

forza

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yep cold but true.
It is how I see the 9 out of 10 that fail in substituting vaping for smoking.
Either do not want to put for the the effort to learn about vaping or just not smart enough.
I try my best to educate but many just do not want to learn.
I guess it is kind of like someone trying to teach me how to enjoy watching humans play football?
Not gonna happen as I have no interest in being a spectator to sports. Playing them now I enjoy.

As I said vaping will work for some and has worked for most everyone on here.
But we are a minor number of people who have tried vaping.
This is my husband, in a nutshell. It's not that he's stupid but just too freaking lazy to learn. But I keep putting new setups into his hands and new flavors in his tank because I WANT him to stop smoking.

So far, he's stopped smoking in his car and in the house. So he's smoking WAY less than he was before. Recently I've seen him laying around on his day off with his vape in his hand instead of going outside to have a smoke which is a big win in my book.

But back on topic, yeah, as with anything else if ppl refuse to learn or can't or won't then vaping isn't going to help.
 

pulsevape

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yep cold but true.
It is how I see the 9 out of 10 that fail in substituting vaping for smoking.
Either do not want to put for the the effort to learn about vaping or just not smart enough.
I try my best to educate but many just do not want to learn.
I guess it is kind of like someone trying to teach me how to enjoy watching humans play football?
Not gonna happen as I have no interest in being a spectator to sports. Playing them now I enjoy.

As I said vaping will work for some and has worked for most everyone on here.
But we are a minor number of people who have tried vaping.


I don't agree with that at all... 9 out of 10 is just to high a number and points to something else other than determination or intent...I'd agree with you if the number was 4 out of 10 or 5 out of 10...for generations we did the same thing to alcoholics we berated and beat up alcoholics for their addiction and told them they were trivial indulgent fucks for not kicking booze. It wasn't until we learned more about the human brain and body that we realized alcoholisim was more akin to a disease....We are blaming the victims again...we just don't know enough about the nature of addiction yet....and let's be honest, the smoking addiction has never been a problem anybody ever wanted to solve,,oh sufre we mouthed platitudes and offered a few pathetic ineffective approaches, but reallly..the Tobacco industry was just too rich and too well connected and too many people were making too much money for any serious money or time and talent to be directed for a solution even today when vaping is on the threshold of saving a billion lives ....the Tobbaco industry and big Pharma are able to destroy it. and deny people a small chance at getting off smoking.Vaping was not created by a Corporation, not by a bank,not by a goverment program...it was created by a handfull of fringe individuals who were looking for a real solution,and I have learned more about the nature and mechanics of the smoking addiction on vaping forums than on any helath form or smoking cessation program I've ever been to......stopping smoking has more to do with an industry offering people solutions that don't fucking work because the corporations and the goverments want the people to be addicted and they want them to die.....and that is why they are trying there best to destroy any progress vaping is making.

I've known more than a few addicts in my life and watched more than a few die from their addiction. Usually addiction turned from a struggle into a forum of suicide because of the "you don't really want to quit" bullshit.....about 80% of the addicts I've know would have given years of their lives or their right hand to be free from their addiction.But becuse of our lack of knowledge, lack of honesty, and lack of compassion... they blamed themselves for their failures, they were to self indulgent, to intrinsiclly evil, or lacking ...there was something missing in them that "good" people had and alot of them slunk off to die in shame and self recriminations,self loathing....The ones that did seem to do best surrounded themselves with a supportive community or went out and dug up information and tried things the mainstream either ignored or actually actively attacked(soumd familiar)....
The vaping community has changed and is poised on the verge of committing suicide...we have become like childeren playing with our dicks out behind the woodshed.We are doing the goverment's and big Tobacco's job for them...We fill our forums with trivial bullshit and obsess about our fucking gear and the biggest and best and newest and shiniet. We have lost sight of why people started vaping.We have become self righteous and judgmental, we activelly attack dual users or people struggeling with smoking we tell them to just up their gear or their nic levels or some other trite nonsense.we want an easy fix.....most vapers know very little about the mechanics of the smoking addiction and could care less...they are more interested in where to score cheap coils.
The outside world looks in on our world with ridicule and well they should it is deserved.and when they do shut us down they will be in their minds shutting down a bunch of adolescent twats with a silly hobby, and not a group of enlightend compassionate honest people trying to help the world and each other......
 
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The Cromwell

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I don't agree with that at all... 9 out of 10 is just to high a number and points to something else other than determination or intent...I'd agree with you if the number was 4 out of 10 or 5 out of 10...for generations we did the same thing to alcoholics we berated and beat up alcoholics for their addiction and told them they were trivial indulgent fucks for not kicking booze. It wasn't until we learned more about the human brain and body that we realized alcoholisim was more akin to a disease....We are blaming the victims again...we just don't know enough about the nature of addiction yet....and let's be honest, the smoking addiction has never been a problem anybody ever wanted to solve,,oh sufre we mouthed platitudes and offered a few pathetic ineffective approaches, but reallly..the Tobacco industry was just too rich and too well connected and too many people were making too much money for any serious money or time and talent to be directed for a solution even today when vaping is on the threshold of saving a billion lives ....the Tobbaco industry and big Pharma are able to destroy it. and deny people a small chance at getting off smoking.Vaping was not created by a Corporation, not by a bank,not by a goverment program...it was created by a handfull of fringe individuals who were looking for a real solution,and I have learned more about the nature and mechanics of the smoking addiction on vaping forums than on any helath form or smoking cessation program I've ever been to......stopping smoking has more to do with an industry offering people solutions that don't fucking work because the corporations and the goverments want the people to be addicted and they want them to die.....and that is why they are trying there best to destroy any progress vaping is making.

I've known more than a few addicts in my life and watched more than a few die from their addiction. Usually addiction turned from a struggle into a forum of suicide because of the "you don't really want to quit" bullshit.....about 80% of the addicts I've know would have given years of their lives or their right hand to be free from their addiction.But becuse of our lack of knowledge, lack of honesty, and lack of compassion... they blamed themselves for their failures, they were to self indulgent, to intrinsiclly evil, or lacking ...there was something missing in them that "good" people had and alot of them slunk off to die in shame and self recriminations,self loathing....The ones that did seem to do best surrounded themselves with a supportive community or went out and dug up information and tried things the mainstream either ignored or actually actively attacked(soumd familiar)....
The vaping community has changed and is poised on the verge of committing suicide...we have become like childeren playing with our dicks out behind the woodshed.We are doing the goverment's and big Tobacco's job for them...We fill our forums with trivial bullshit and obsess about our fucking gear and the biggest and best and newest and shiniet. We have lost sight of why people started vaping.We have become self righteous and judgmental, we activelly attack dual users or people struggeling with smoking we tell them to just up their gear or their nic levels or some other trite nonsense.we want an easy fix.....most vapers know very little about the mechanics of the smoking addiction and could care less...they are more interested in where to score cheap coils.
The outside world looks in on our world with ridicule and well they should it is deserved.and when they do shut us down they will be in their minds shutting down a bunch of adolescent twats with a silly hobby, and not a group of enlightend compassionate honest people trying to help the world and each other......
I personally know 10 that started vaping to give up cigs.
9 have gone back to cigs.
Too much trouble to learn how to vape for most of them. Well that and they did not fit in with their smoking buddies.

I did say based on my experience.

Sad to say that smokers seem to be the biggest enemies of vapers.
 

pulsevape

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I personally know 10 that started vaping to give up cigs.
9 have gone back to cigs.
Too much trouble to learn how to vape for most of them. Well that and they did not fit in with their smoking buddies.

I did say based on my experience.
based on my experince they failed because nicotine wasn't the only substance in cigarettes they were addicted to. and e-juice was missing those substances.
 

The Cromwell

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based on my experince they failed because nicotine wasn't the only substance in cigarettes they were addicted to. and e-juice was missing those substances.
Ohh the NET. Never used the stuff. 40+ yr 1 + PAD for full strength and little cigars (cheap).
Yes might be an issue for some but not for all.
 

ej1024

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All my buddies started VAPING in 2010/2011 15-20 of us all vapes
Fast forward 2016 there's only 3 of us vapes FULL time
2 part time VAPERS
And 1 occasional vaper
The rest went back to smoking...
Why!?
Like what others said
It was just too much for them...
I guess it didnt become a HOBBY?!


VAPE ON
 

pulsevape

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Ohh the NET. Never used the stuff. 40+ yr 1 + PAD for full strength and little cigars (cheap).
Yes might be an issue for some but not for all.
my point is we have little clue as to the nature of addiction punishing addicts is fun and makes us feel better about ourselves but it's a lie....
 

AndriaD

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I think that people who intentionally start vaping in order to quit smoking are doomed to disappointment. Those of us who didn't really have quitting in mind, or were just curious, or just intrigued by something new and novel, I think are the ones who've had the most success with vaping as smoking cessation -- those who'd already given up the idea of quitting as a pipe dream, then were amazed by what a good substitute vaping actually is -- we didn't expect anything, and so got more than we bargained for. Those who start vaping with great expectations, well, it's a bit disappointing to find that you have to do this and that and the other thing and it MIGHT work.

Pretty sure the reason the eRoll worked for me was that no one had yet told me that cigalikes didn't work for quitting smoking. :D

Andria
 

AndriaD

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Along the lines of those who start vaping expressly to quit smoking... seems to me that they expect for vaping to actually remove from them the desire to smoke... and that's why they get disappointed, because vaping just won't do that. What vaping WILL do, is satisfy that urge, once you've already said ok, I quit, and then the cravings come along.

It's like they're trying to do it backwards.... they think that because they're vaping, the urge to smoke will disappear. In fact, the urge to smoke may NEVER disappear; you have to MAKE yourself NOT smoke, and just vape, if you want that urge to EVER go away, or lessen.

I ran into this, my 2nd time around after the relapse. I was a dual-user for the entire month of the relapse, and I kept thinking, any day now, vaping will overtake smoking. It never did, and I was getting more and more frustrated. I finally realized that I actually *had* made an effort, the first time around, it was just so slow and gradual and novel, I didn't really realize I was making an effort to vape instead of smoke. So the 2nd time, I had to just say, ok ENOUGH, no more smoking, period, no matter how much I want to, I'm not going to. And guess what, I didn't. After 10 days and the cravings came back, it was a near thing, but I got some WTA, and it relieved the cravings very well, so I never did slip back to smoking -- but I had to draw a line and say, I ain't crossing it. Without the line drawn, it just won't happen.

Andria
 

The Cromwell

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Pretty sure the reason the eRoll worked for me was that no one had yet told me that cigalikes didn't work for quitting smoking. :D
Did not hang at vape shops then?
The first one I went in looking for a carto Tank pretty much just laughed at me.
The next 2 were pretty much the same.
So I just bought all my stuff online.

Fuck em.
 

AndriaD

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Did not hang at vape shops then?
The first one I went in looking for a carto Tank pretty much just laughed at me.
The next 2 were pretty much the same.
So I just bought all my stuff online.

Fuck em.

No, hardly ever. I hung at ECF! In the new users' forum. And actually, some folks probably did mention how "useless" cigalikes were... but I've always been hard headed; I have to prove it to myself. :D I had to prove that they were wrong, that cigalikes really could work -- and they did. But I got very tired of CONSTANTLY refilling and recharging that tiny lil thing, and began to understand why others were so disdainful of them -- they worked to satisfy my urges, sure enough, but were a HUGE pain in the ass to deal with -- if I wasn't a housewife, if I actually had things I had to do, I'd have found them lacking a lot sooner, I'm sure.

I also began to understand the terminology; when I questioned why the first hit after charging was great, but each succeeding hit was less and less satisfying, I was given to understand that that is the purpose of a "regulated mod" -- to keep it the same, regardless of the charge state. And that's one thing I truly hate about mechs, and why I always use a kick -- I want each hit to be as good as the one before.

Andria
 

The Cromwell

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No, hardly ever. I hung at ECF! In the new users' forum. And actually, some folks probably did mention how "useless" cigalikes were... but I've always been hard headed; I have to prove it to myself. :D I had to prove that they were wrong, that cigalikes really could work -- and they did. But I got very tired of CONSTANTLY refilling and recharging that tiny lil thing, and began to understand why others were so disdainful of them -- they worked to satisfy my urges, sure enough, but were a HUGE pain in the ass to deal with -- if I wasn't a housewife, if I actually had things I had to do, I'd have found them lacking a lot sooner, I'm sure.

I also began to understand the terminology; when I questioned why the first hit after charging was great, but each succeeding hit was less and less satisfying, I was given to understand that that is the purpose of a "regulated mod" -- to keep it the same, regardless of the charge state. And that's one thing I truly hate about mechs, and why I always use a kick -- I want each hit to be as good as the one before.

Andria

Your style of vaping is much more sensitive to power tchanges.
Me vaping a STM at 20 watts if it drops to 18 it is not so much of a difference.
As vaping at 10 watts and it dropping to 8.
 

AndriaD

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Your style of vaping is much more sensitive to power tchanges.
Me vaping a STM at 20 watts if it drops to 18 it is not so much of a difference.
As vaping at 10 watts and it dropping to 8.

Very true! I love my mods that let me change the wattage by tenths of a watt, rather than half a watt -- I actually CAN tell a diff between 9.4w, and say, 9.7w. I very often adjust by .2 or .3 of a watt, to hit it just where I want it.

Andria
 

Tuluum

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Along the lines of those who start vaping expressly to quit smoking... seems to me that they expect for vaping to actually remove from them the desire to smoke... and that's why they get disappointed, because vaping just won't do that. What vaping WILL do, is satisfy that urge, once you've already said ok, I quit, and then the cravings come along.

It's like they're trying to do it backwards.... they think that because they're vaping, the urge to smoke will disappear. In fact, the urge to smoke may NEVER disappear; you have to MAKE yourself NOT smoke, and just vape, if you want that urge to EVER go away, or lessen.

I ran into this, my 2nd time around after the relapse. I was a dual-user for the entire month of the relapse, and I kept thinking, any day now, vaping will overtake smoking. It never did, and I was getting more and more frustrated. I finally realized that I actually *had* made an effort, the first time around, it was just so slow and gradual and novel, I didn't really realize I was making an effort to vape instead of smoke. So the 2nd time, I had to just say, ok ENOUGH, no more smoking, period, no matter how much I want to, I'm not going to. And guess what, I didn't. After 10 days and the cravings came back, it was a near thing, but I got some WTA, and it relieved the cravings very well, so I never did slip back to smoking -- but I had to draw a line and say, I ain't crossing it. Without the line drawn, it just won't happen.

Andria

I really think its a difficult topic to understand in ourselves, much less others. I think that to truly succeed in a transition from smoking to vaping, it requires a degree of introspection and self-awareness that can be difficult for some.

As pulsevape said, our understanding of addiction is lacking. I think that is partly due to it being approached as everyone being the same.

Perhaps the best way to explore it is through discussions just like this. Then, we can think back on our own "journey" with it and try to think of ways that could have made it more efficient.

For some, they simply will not quit through vaping, or anything else for that matter. But, I do think that cessation success rates could be improved.

My own could have taken a couple weeks rather than years. I wanted to quit, but greatly enjoyed smoking. Once I found what I liked, I found an even more enjoyable experience and haven't had a single craving since that day. For some (perhaps yourself!) that approach and experience will only lead to failure. It requires person specific equipment alongside knowing ourselves well enough to mentally make the choice. Can't do a lot about the latter, but I think we could do better with the former and everyone has a bit different of a balance between the two. For some, the mental part will require little to no effort once the right equipment is found. For others, the equipment will be nearly irrelevant. Hell, for some, the biggest factor might be simply spending enough money to feel obligated and then the rest will follow.

I think its a really interesting topic that not only combines psychology, sociology, and external factors like gear, but also displays just how different we all can be while experiencing the same thing: vaping.
 

AndriaD

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I really think its a difficult topic to understand in ourselves, much less others. I think that to truly succeed in a transition from smoking to vaping, it requires a degree of introspection and self-awareness that can be difficult for some.

As pulsevape said, our understanding of addiction is lacking. I think that is partly due to it being approached as everyone being the same.

Perhaps the best way to explore it is through discussions just like this. Then, we can think back on our own "journey" with it and try to think of ways that could have made it more efficient.

For some, they simply will not quit through vaping, or anything else for that matter. But, I do think that cessation success rates could be improved.

My own could have taken a couple weeks rather than years. I wanted to quit, but greatly enjoyed smoking. Once I found what I liked, I found an even more enjoyable experience and haven't had a single craving since that day. For some (perhaps yourself!) that approach and experience will only lead to failure. It requires person specific equipment alongside knowing ourselves well enough to mentally make the choice. Can't do a lot about the latter, but I think we could do better with the former and everyone has a bit different of a balance between the two. For some, the mental part will require little to no effort once the right equipment is found. For others, the equipment will be nearly irrelevant. Hell, for some, the biggest factor might be simply spending enough money to feel obligated and then the rest will follow.

I think its a really interesting topic that not only combines psychology, sociology, and external factors like gear, but also displays just how different we all can be while experiencing the same thing: vaping.

The part about spending money was definitely part of it, for me; I absolutely HATE!!!!! to waste money, just the idea almost makes me physically ill. So the $40 I spent on that initial eRoll was a big investment for me -- I was still buying cigarettes then, which took up pretty much ALL "disposable" income, so that $40 was a little bit challenging to come by -- and once spent for that eRoll, I wasn't about to let it go to waste, so I MADE myself use it -- at first, even with too high a nic level and got really horribly nauseous... once I got some 6mg, in a flavor that reminded me a lot of my Virginia Slims, and gave me even better TH, even at 6mg, than ultralight cigarettes BUT didn't make me cough as anything stronger than ultralights would do... I really could not find a single reason NOT to make the leap.

By the time I had the relapse, I'd been vaping for over 3.5 months, and had probably several hundred dollars invested in vaping, and everytime I looked at my vape counter, I *missed* playing with all my cool shiny toys. :D No way was I gonna let all that neat stuff go to waste, no way no how no SIR!

It does take a multi-pronged effort, and I think the more different ways you can attack it, the more likely you are to beat it.

Andria
 

inspects

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I'm a firm believer with proper gear, high nicotine content, a good flavored juice, along with someone explaining diligently what is involved to quit smoking, the conversion rate would be much much higher. From conversations I've had with people who tried vaping, I've learned most tried cigalikes, which are rubbish, then they continued smoking.

I'd bet 98% of people considering vaping don't know or understand the many different types of vaping devices available. Some are as simple as lighting a smoke, other devices require building coils-wicking properly which can be burdensome to many people.

Lack of understanding is a huge problem, especially with all the misinformation online about vaping being as bad as smoking, or even worse than smoking. Then we have a corrupt government and pharmaceutical companies who value tax money and profit more than human life, it will take longer for smokers to try vaping, and some will not try at all to stop smoking.

With the information available now about vaping, the government should be endorsing it, with programs available to help people switch, but I doubt we'll see this anytime in the near or distant future. There is too much money lost if people stop smoking.

I try to help friends stop smoking to the best of my ability, even buy their first setup if necessary, explain and show them how this just works if they truly want to stop smoking.
 

SirKadly

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Although you might be correct Bob, I believe with proper gear and additional knowledge the odds of quitting would be exponentially higher.
This right here!

I know I'm kinda late to the party, and this has already been said in various ways, but I think most people who try cigalikes and never know about anything beyond them end up going back to smoking. They only work for a relatively small number of people.

The right gear and the knowledge to use it is the key. I tried cigalikes multiple times. I don't count any of them as "when I started vaping" because they did nothing for me. I consider the day I got my Ego One as the day I started vaping. I'm still dual using to a limited degree after 11 months, but I'm barely smoking. With cigalikes, they never really reduced my smoking levels.

I think if you only look at the people who move beyond cigalikes, success rates will be much higher than with the people who only ever try cigalikes.

Sure, some of it is motivation as well. But I think inspects nailed it with this statement.
 
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mikeyboy74

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I think if someone who used to smoke 1ppd or more now smokes, say, 1-5 analogs per day when not vaping, that's at least a base hit if not a home run, and should not be treated as a statistical failure. I started vaping 11 months ago, got down to 1-3 analogs per day, relapsed a bit last month..... but then said the hell with it, and haven't smoked at all in 14 days. Am I climbing the walls? Yes. Using a Juul too, laugh if you want. One day at a time. If there's a decent WTA that's not extraordinarily expensive, I'd be willing to listen. I'm guessing it's the MAOI's and alkaloids that I am missing. It's not the craving now as much as feeling stiff/achy and moody, short fuse, feel like a little kid without my usual adult level of self-control.
 

JuicyLucy

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I think if someone who used to smoke 1ppd or more now smokes, say, 1-5 analogs per day when not vaping, that's at least a base hit if not a home run, and should not be treated as a statistical failure. I started vaping 11 months ago, got down to 1-3 analogs per day, relapsed a bit last month..... but then said the hell with it, and haven't smoked at all in 14 days. Am I climbing the walls? Yes. Using a Juul too, laugh if you want. One day at a time. If there's a decent WTA that's not extraordinarily expensive, I'd be willing to listen. I'm guessing it's the MAOI's and alkaloids that I am missing. It's not the craving now as much as feeling stiff/achy and moody, short fuse, feel like a little kid without my usual adult level of self-control.

Have you tried NETs if you found WTA too expensive?

Tried some recently and it fell like smoking
 

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