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Vaping flavor ban at convenience stores and gas stations next week

The Cromwell

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The U.S. Food and Drug Administration next week will issue a ban on the sale of fruit and candy flavored electronic cigarettes in convenience stores and gas stations, an agency official said, in a move to counter a surge in teenage use of e-cigarettes.
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The FDA also will introduce stricter age-verification requirements for online sales of e-cigarettes. The FDA’s planned restrictions, first reported by The Washington Post and confirmed to Reuters by the official, do not apply to vape shops or other specialty retail stores.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...o-fight-teenage-vaping-epidemic-idUSKCN1NE0C6
 

Droogbc

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The problem with this is that all it does is make for a less easily informed consumer. The juice will probably still taste like blue raspberry, but they won't be allowed to tell you that. Instead they'll name it something senseless like "Hombre" so you have absolutely no idea what it is going to taste like without cross-referencing it with a separate list of flavor descriptions.

We're going through something similar here in Canada, but it's not limited to cigalikes. Here you can offer fruit flavors and even put a picture of the fruit on the bottle, but confectionery flavors are not allowed to be advertised in any way whatsoever on the package. So instead of vaping mini donuts this morning, I am vaping "Big Foot".

(Thanks Government. My kid is now totally safe.)

They also limited us to 60mg/l and completely fucked us DIY'ers. Now, instead of buying a liter of 250mg/l for $250, I get to pay closer to a grand for the same overall amount of nicotine. But, ya know, the children and sea turtles and shit, so to hell with us.
 

The Cromwell

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From another article on the subject:

Gottlieb, who once served on the board of a North Carolina vaping company, was at one time viewed as an ally of the e-cigarette industry, and he delayed some critical e-cigarette rules shortly after becoming commissioner in 2017. He has also said his first priority is protecting children from tobacco-related disease. Most vaping products are flavored, and studies show teenagers are attracted to the flavors.
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The only exception to the flavored-products ban in convenience stores involves mint and menthol e-cigarette products. The FDA will continue to permit sales of those flavors because menthol is permitted in regular cigarettes, and the agency doesn’t want to give traditional cigarettes an advantage over e-cigarettes. But the FDA may extend the sales restriction to those flavors if teen vaping doesn’t decline, officials said.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/amph...253cf2-e3a1-11e8-8f5f-a55347f48762_story.html
 

NGAHaze

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He has also said his first priority is protecting children from tobacco-related disease.

Now that's funny. If that was actually true he should make vaping more appealing than smoking rather than the opposite. God forbid any child contracts 'Cottage Cheese Lung' from vaping ... :facepalm:
 

The Cromwell

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For me personally the increased proof of age thing on internet sales concerns me the most.

Need to do an inventory and see if I 'need' to make a final order of any vaping hardware..

I will NOT send a pic of my DL, etc for age verification.
Never have never will.
 

The Cromwell

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Now that's funny. If that was actually true he should make vaping more appealing than smoking rather than the opposite. God forbid any child contracts 'Cottage Cheese Lung' from vaping ... :facepalm:

Read the second link. Gottleib sounds like he is kinda pro vaping to get people off of smokes.
Kinda, maybe....
 

gsmit1

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For me personally the increased proof of age thing on internet sales concerns me the most.

Need to do an inventory and see if I 'need' to make a final order of any vaping hardware..

I will NOT send a pic of my DL, etc for age verification.
Never have never will.
If I had the money I would start an online age verification service. Think PayPal except it would be for age verification.

You sign up, provide proof of age to the service, which documentation remains secure with the service and are issued say an ID code of some kind that you provide to online vendors which tells them that your age has been verified by the service.

Lots to think through and fairly easily defeated by obtaining a members ID either by complicity or theft, but would solve at least some of the problems. Or appear to anyway.
 

NGAHaze

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Read the second link. Gottleib sounds like he is kinda pro vaping to get people off of smokes.
Kinda, maybe....

Yeah, I did read that but therein lies the problem. He does seem to believe it has a place in harm reduction for current smokers but beyond that, he wants to impose abstinence only. That doesn't work as has been proven repeatedly. There is always going to be that subset of youths that want to experiment with things that they know they shouldn't. I'd much rather have that be ecigs rather than actual cigarettes.

I'm with you on the age verification deal. You have no control over what happens to your data once you provide it ... just look at the fine print in those usage agreements you are forced to check before they will sell you anything.
 

The Cromwell

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Yeah, I did read that but therein lies the problem. He does seem to believe it has a place in harm reduction for current smokers but beyond that, he wants to impose abstinence only. That doesn't work as has been proven repeatedly. There is always going to be that subset of youths that want to experiment with things that they know they shouldn't. I'd much rather have that be ecigs rather than actual cigarettes.

I'm with you on the age verification deal. You have no control over what happens to your data once you provide it ... just look at the fine print in those usage agreements you are forced to check before they will sell you anything.

Yep, why I said kinda maybe on Gottlieb being pro vaping for smoking cessation.
 

Droogbc

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They don't issue credit cards to anyone under 18, so if they only sell to people who pay using a CC (not debit) and only ship to the card billing name and address it is a defacto age verification in my eyes. Of course, that doesn't help if the minimum age to purchase is over 18, but frankly if they think you're old enough to bury yourself in debt, join the service, etc...
 

The Cromwell

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They don't issue credit cards to anyone under 18, so if they only sell to people who pay using a CC (not debit) and only ship to the card billing name and address it is a defacto age verification in my eyes. Of course, that doesn't help if the minimum age to purchase is over 18, but frankly if they think you're old enough to bury yourself in debt, join the service, etc...
Umm you can get 'credit cards' in the wally world checkout and parents can get credit cards for their underage children. I have seen ads for such things.
 

Droogbc

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Umm you can get 'credit cards' in the wally world checkout and parents can get credit cards for their underage children. I have seen ads for such things.
It's easy to place limits on such cards at the bank level. Tried using a prepaid visa card for something just the other day for an online purchase only to be declined and told "we don't accept those types of credit cards" even though it was a Visa and they claimed to accept visa.

As for cards being given to kids, since someone under 18 is not legally able to sign a contract they cannot be named cardholders. Their parents can get a credit card account and give one to their kids, but that's on the parents.
 

JuicyLucy

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It's easy to place limits on such cards at the bank level. Tried using a prepaid visa card for something just the other day for an online purchase only to be declined and told "we don't accept those types of credit cards" even though it was a Visa and they claimed to accept visa.

As for cards being given to kids, since someone under 18 is not legally able to sign a contract they cannot be named cardholders. Their parents can get a credit card account and give one to their kids, but that's on the parents.

Kids can still use them though and the cards are in the kids' names - both my kids had credit cards well before they turned 18 because they traveled a lot for school activities or vacations out of state without us being with them
 

The Cromwell

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Their parents can get a credit card account and give one to their kids, but that's on the parents.

And of course those kids that get credit cards from their parents will not use them on online vape purchases?

I am curious and dreading what form of enhanced online age verification they come up with.

If the FDA has CC companies restrict in a limited manner the card usage for online purchases.
CC companies may just fully restrict their usage for online vape purchases?

They can do that anytime they want and the FDA would give a an excuse.
 

JuicyLucy

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I am curious and dreading what form of enhanced online age verification they come up with.

NO shit - some places already get really stupid and demand the last four digits of your social - which I also flat out refuse to do
 

Droogbc

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If the card is explicitly intended for use by a dependant child, and the parents agree to be responsible for any charges, they can be issued... But they're easily limited on where they can be used. It wouldn't be difficult to do at all, and is already being done outside of the vape-world. Try using one at a liquor store or to order porn, and you might just find that the cards won't work at such places.
 
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The Cromwell

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NO shit - some places already get really stupid and demand the last four digits of your social - which I also flat out refuse to do

Yep same here. In 2017 I ordered a battery charger from a vape company. After payment they wanted me to send a pic of DL and last 4 SS.
I just dropped the page.
Was planning on fussing with them over putting that crap after payment was accepted.
The charger did show up in a week though...
 

Droogbc

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Actually, come to think of it, I got my first credit card at 18. It was a promo being done by Visa at my college, the account was in my name, and I was the only one on it.

Didn't work for porn, didn't work at liquor stores, but if I drove across the line where they sold beer at the gas station I could load up on booze at the Mobil station.

The infastructure already exists, just a matter of putting it into place.
 

The Cromwell

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Some areas /states now require 21 to buy vape stuff I think.

I am an old phart so my only issue is giving out personal info for age verification to a possibly fly by night vape outfit with poor system security.

Heck I will not give out that info to any online vendor be it vape related or otherwise.
 

The Cromwell

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The infastructure already exists, just a matter of putting it into place.
And the cost of the implementation.
heck they still do not have all the CC chip reader stuff going everywhere.
Costs many millions between the CC company changes, and hardware and software changes and the retailers locations.
 

Droogbc

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And the cost of the implementation.
heck they still do not have all the CC chip reader stuff going everywhere.
Costs many millions between the CC company changes, and hardware and software changes and the retailers locations.
It would all happen on the back end, so probably wouldn't be expensive or difficult. CC processors segment their clients into various categories already, so an "adult-only retailer" category likely already exists, especially if they were able to limit where I was able to use my card back in the 90's (long before chip & pin.)

It would be a matter of the CC processors ensuring vape retailers they service were in that adult-only type of category. Could easily comply on a state by state basis I'd think.
 

The Cromwell

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I have been 100% DIY for over 3 years. Have enough hardware for the rest of my life (old phart) and enough 100MG nic in the deep freeze for the rest of my life. and buy/use NO factory coils.

My only real need is for some consumables in about a year or two.
PG/VG Batteries, cotton and wire is all I will have to buy in the future.

However I am concerned for those wanting to get off of cigs with vaping.
Worked for me when nothing else would.
 

Droogbc

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I make my own juice and have custom names for the:
Grape Something
Banana Something
Fruity Something
Peppered Steak Something
FDA Cock And Balls Something

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Juul already has a color assigned to each of the flavors. Remove the name of the flavor, and you're left with Juul Red, Juul Blue, Juul Green, etc. Instantly compliant, because flavor is a matter of perception. Unless they start banning specific ingredients, they might be powerless to actually enforce a true flavor ban. (I.e. They could ban menthol itself, but if the product happened to be minty from mint extract or something it wouldn't be illegal afaik.)
 

MannyScoot

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Juul already has a color assigned to each of the flavors. Remove the name of the flavor, and you're left with Juul Red, Juul Blue, Juul Green, etc. Instantly compliant, because flavor is a matter of perception. Unless they start banning specific ingredients, they might be powerless to actually enforce a true flavor ban. (I.e. They could ban menthol itself, but if the product happened to be minty from mint extract or something it wouldn't be illegal afaik.)
Yeah I can't build alien coils that good..... So I ordered 250Qty. SS316 (3) core and even exterior wire also with all SS316......

Have to stock pile..... I think a couple of thousand will do.....
 

AndriaD

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If I had the money I would start an online age verification service. Think PayPal except it would be for age verification.

You sign up, provide proof of age to the service, which documentation remains secure with the service and are issued say an ID code of some kind that you provide to online vendors which tells them that your age has been verified by the service.

Lots to think through and fairly easily defeated by obtaining a members ID either by complicity or theft, but would solve at least some of the problems. Or appear to anyway.

I don't know if they still exist, but there used to be such online age checkers, which were used by porn sites, which I used to create pre-2008 -- I mean god forbid junior should see some tits and ass, right? :facepalm: It's been 10 yrs though, since I had any truck with sites like that, so I dunno if they still exist. There was a big one called CyberAge.

Andria
 

MannyScoot

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I don't know if they still exist, but there used to be such online age checkers, which were used by porn sites, which I used to create pre-2008 -- I mean god forbid junior should see some tits and ass, right? :facepalm: It's been 10 yrs though, since I had any truck with sites like that, so I dunno if they still exist. There was a big one called CyberAge.

Andria
I still get verified for age when I visit porn sites.........

Well I go there looking for Vape stuff.... You know what I mean......

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The Cromwell

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ARGH!

Did a mod inventory and only have 5 Pico Squeezes :eek:
Must order another one. I forgot that I gave one away with a Wasp nano a while back.
Have 9 Kbox mini mods, so good there. Only paid around $250 for the lot of them, and about half came with Subtank minis.
8 other regulated squonk mods.
6 Tube mechs.
A couple nice Kato side by side clones.
And 3 or 4 mech squonkers.
With an assortment of 10 or so other regulated mods.
 

JuicyLucy

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ARGH!

Did a mod inventory and only have 5 Pico Squeezes :eek:
Must order another one. I forgot that I gave one away with a Wasp nano a while back.
Have 9 Kbox mini mods, so good there. Only paid around $250 for the lot of them, and about half came with Subtank minis.
8 other regulated squonk mods.
6 Tube mechs.
A couple nice Kato side by side clones.
And 3 or 4 mech squonkers.
With an assortment of 10 or so other regulated mods.

Crap, I have over 50 squonkers but only one Squeeze!

I've been mulling over a Black Friday purchase - I usually get myself something top shelf on Black Friday, but the Squeeze is worthy - I gave too many away
 

5150sick

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"Drug Therapies to support cessation among youth"???

So let me guess how this is going to go.

14yr old Junior takes a few hits off of a juul so his parents totally lose it because of all the scary anti vaping propaganda then the doctor will prescribe Junior the suicide pill (chantix) or some other big pharma brain crippling product.

Big Pharma corners the market on youth nicotine to replace the adult vapers who know their shit doesn't work and they live happily ever after.


upload_2018-11-9_15-58-1.png

Be prepared for all of the unintended consequences such as school shootings, Suicides, homicides, etc... that pharma will blame on something stupid like "bullying".

Everyone gets bullied at some point in their youth.
The ones who come back with a gun and 100 rounds of ammo are the ones on big pharma's bullshit "remedies".

But we all know this wasn't really about protecting the children to start with.
This is about Big Pharma recouping all the money lost from their failed NRT products to vaping. - 5150
 

AndriaD

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But we all know this wasn't really about protecting the children to start with.
This is about Big Pharma recouping all the money lost from their failed NRT products to vaping. - 5150

That, and also to placate all the fucking Big Nannies who think it's THEIR job to parent all kids everywhere, since so many parents do a piss-poor-to-nonexistent job of it -- those same nannies are the self-righteous control freaks who truly believe that telling a kid "thou shalt not" will actually have ANY effect other than to show the kids the things to do to piss off all the control freaks, which is great sport for adolescents.

Andria
 

MrMeowgi

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I make my own e-juice and have custom names for them:
Grape Something
Banana Something
Fruity Something
Peppered Steak Something
FDA Cock And Balls Something

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Hey I make a grape something as well. Might have to try your something out. Lol

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MannyScoot

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Hey I make a grape something as well. Might have to try your something out. Lol

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My brother from another mother.... Ha ha.....

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MannyScoot

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Fuck the FDA...... Vaping is not my life, I feel for the people that make a living selling e-juice and Vape supplies ...

I have enough shit to Vape my Dick Off...... And I can make e-juice and purchase the shit over the counter.....

We all should store and store.... So if anything happens we are survival ready and have enough for others too..

This has been known since 2014 that it was going to get rough and now by next year it's going to be hell......

Shit is being controlled in Europe with all devices holding 2ml of juice..... And now we will be next......

All I can say is these Chinese fuck mods last 3 months... 6 months... Maybe a year..... So if you can store 10 mods and nicotine.....

The rest of the shit can be bought at Walmart or Pharmacies...... I bought VG and PG from a local Pharmacy and my Flavors from Lorianne oils used to flavor all kinds of food shit......

Don't panic, just be prepared....




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AndriaD

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Also, overeating and not exercising is going to prematurely kill 100's of millions of the kids.

But you can't tell obese people anything -- they all accuse you of "body shaming" even when you point out that obesity is going to kill them. Idiots. They need to get over their fixation on self-esteem and get to learning how to eat properly! They'd all have a lot better self-esteem if they lost 100 lbs!

Andria
 

MannyScoot

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It's getting very controlling, for example you have all the people that want to know their descendants ie (DNA) that they send in a sample to find out if you are a descendant of Pocahontas or someone else......

Now the government has your DNA sample stored for life and available whenever to their access .......
Aha ......
 

AndriaD

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It's getting very controlling, for example you have all the people that want to know their descendants ie (DNA) that they send in a sample to find out if you are a descendant of Pocahontas or someone else......

Now the government has your DNA sample stored for life and available whenever to their access .......
Aha ......

Which is PRECISELY why I will never take part in that "Ancestry DNA" BS. Sure, I'd love to know what sort of gene pool I come from... but only if that study is done by my doctor, who is prevented by law from sharing that info with anyone other than another doctor caring for my health. Doctors caring for my health are the ONLY people with ANY business knowing what's in my DNA.

Andria
 

MannyScoot

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Which is PRECISELY why I will never take part in that "Ancestry DNA" BS. Sure, I'd love to know what sort of gene pool I come from... but only if that study is done by my doctor, who is prevented by law from sharing that info with anyone other than another doctor caring for my health. Doctors caring for my health are the ONLY people with ANY business knowing what's in my DNA.

Andria
They can pop a warrant whenever and the Doctor has to release the data....... The same thing with a lawyer and the media..... They say we will keep you anonymous and then the Government pulls a warrant.... They can get your phone data, location, medical and public records. You are not safe.... "The Man" Knows everything.......
 

MrMeowgi

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It's getting very controlling, for example you have all the people that want to know their descendants ie (DNA) that they send in a sample to find out if you are a descendant of Pocahontas or someone else......

Now the government has your DNA sample stored for life and available whenever to their access .......
Aha ......
And if you're ever a convicted felon they demand your DNA for their database. Hopes none of you have to deal with that.

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AndriaD

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They can pop a warrant whenever and the Doctor has to release the data....... The same thing with a lawyer and the media..... They say we will keep you anonymous and then the Government pulls a warrant.... They can get your phone data, location, medical and public records. You are not safe.... "The Man" Knows everything.......

They require something called Probable Cause to get a warrant.

Andria
 

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