Very Alarming News Dr. Farsalinos found that diacetyl was in 74% of the e-liquids that were tested.

[SMOKIE]

Very Alarming News Dr. Farsalinos found that diacetyl was in 74% of the e-liquids that were tested.

LINK: http://www.scribd.com/doc/238345295/Dr-Farsalinos-study-on-diacetyl-in-e-liquid

 

[HeadInClouds]

Yes, but he doesn't name any companies or flavorings, so we vapers get no guidance from this research.

$38 for 24-hour access to the study. If he'd named names, I'd spring for it.

 

[AmandaD]

Yes, but he doesn't name any companies or flavorings, so we vapers get no guidance from this research.

$38 for 24-hour access to the study. If he'd named names, I'd spring for it.

Wait - I thought the vapers actually were the ones who paid for the study to start with, no?

 

[HeadInClouds]

Wait - I thought the vapers actually were the ones who paid for the study to start with, no?

Yes, many vapers kicked in, thinking the study was designed to benefit vapers. Information circulating during the fundraising certainly led me to believe that - but I don't know where that notion came from. I'm disappointed; it's of no benefit to me whatsoever.

I did find old posts from during the fundraising that listed vendors as major donors.

 

[chris.ardito.3]

Here is a vid of Dr. Farsalinos.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Celtic Fog]

edited because i give up on this subject....enjoy them while you can.

 

[RyGon]

I think I picked a good time to start DIY and with FA e-juice flavors in particular. They confirmed to me: "We removed diacetyl from our formulas long time ago, acetoin can be present in tiny amount on some recipes but latest info we got about it seems to exclude a similar role for it compared to diacetyl.
We never used acetyl propionyl."
You have to read that with an Italian accent.

 

[RyGon]

oops double post

 

[GargoyleK1]

So…. The sky is falling yet again… And no help at all from the people doing the "study"..

I'm surprised.

 

[UncleRJ]

Was the 74% coming from China?

We all know how good the baby formula is..............

Right?

 

[HeadInClouds]

Was the 74% coming from China?

European and US juice vendors. Only Dr F knows which vendors, and only those vendors know which flavorings they use. In other words, it's all a big secret. (This Invisibility Cloak means no vendor or manufacturer has any reason to change a thing.)

 

[Celtic Fog]

edited so I don't hurt feelings.

 

[Giraut]

The truly paranoid can vape unflavored VG. The stuff is rather tasteful and pleasant in itself. Next surest thing is VG with pure menthol (from menthol crystals) . Menthol is one of the only flavor ingredients that not only are known to be safe for inhalation, but are prescribed for that very purpose - although not at the dosage vapers use it at.

 

[Ld3441]

I am not surprised at all and that may be why I never liked pre-made juice. DIY is the way to go for me so I know what I am getting.

 

[Giraut]

DIY is the way to go for me so I know what I am getting.

You *think* you know what you're getting. Realistically, I have no idea where the nic in my VG nic base comes from - or the VG itself for that matter. For all I know, my base liquid may have been created in someone's dirty kitchen and contain bacteria or something. Same thing for the flavorings: I have no idea what's in them.

All I have is a reasonable expectation of quality, because my supplier has a good reputation and is in Germany. But that's all I have. Quite frankly, as much as I hate government interference, I would like the juice industry to be regulated so companies that sell these things must comply with certain hygiene and chemical safety standards. I'd like to have a little more than a vague feeling of trust in a company when I purchase ingredients.

That's why, whenever I can, I get my ingredients from my chemist: at least they are regulated (heavily), and I can honestly say I know what I get from them. But the stuff I get from my internet vape supplies shop? Who knows...

 

[GargoyleK1]

This guy is a wolf in sheeps clothing, he says he is for ecigs...ECIGS. He is working for big tobacco, scaring people into taking flavors away...leaving ecigalike companies to rule the market...big tobacco cigalikes....notice the report says VENDORS, not PRODUCERS.

I have to agree with this…

Very shady study IMO.

 

[Ld3441]

You *think* you know what you're getting. Realistically, I have no idea where the nic in my VG nic base comes from - or the VG itself for that matter. For all I know, my base liquid may have been created in someone's dirty kitchen and contain bacteria or something. Same thing for the flavorings: I have no idea what's in them.

All I have is a reasonable expectation of quality, because my supplier has a good reputation and is in Germany. But that's all I have. Quite frankly, as much as I hate government interference, I would like the juice industry to be regulated so companies that sell these things must comply with certain hygiene and chemical safety standards. I'd like to have a little more than a vague feeling of trust in a company when I purchase ingredients.

That's why, whenever I can, I get my ingredients from my chemist: at least they are regulated (heavily), and I can honestly say I know what I get from them. But the stuff I get from my internet vape supplies shop? Who knows...

I know more of what is in my juice than the pre-made juices for sure. Sure there could be things I don't know but I am at least attempting to make a safer product for myself.

 

[crimboss]

Maybe someone slipped a few bills in the good Dr. Farsalinos pockets .At least he is putting it out there.

Might I remind you Men and ladies ,Vapeing is reduced harm, as in not completely safe..nic is, after all ,poison.Lots of farmers use it as a insecticide and its cheap ,bugs wont go near it.

Still,Id rather puff on some e juice than a dirty old stinking cigarette with hundreds of deadly chemicals.

 

[maddvaper]

Oh bullshit %74 ,there'd be diabetics falling out everywhere,and I know cause I'm a diabetic.Within one day that shit puts my sugar through the roof.

 

[LoveVanilla]

Well, we KNOW Flavor West has lied about diacetyl in their product... Any others?

 

[VapinChevy]

I'll keep vaping, no matter how much BS Scares Big Pharma,FDA,CDC,Big Tobacco give

 

[RyGon]

This guy is a wolf in sheeps clothing, he says he is for ecigs...ECIGS. He is working for big tobacco, scaring people into taking flavors away...leaving ecigalike companies to rule the market...big tobacco cigalikes....notice the report says VENDORS, not PRODUCERS.

I'm not really familiar with how this study was put together but I can certainly see why they might include a no names clause in their proposal in order to get the juice vendors and flavoring companies to participate. Of course it would be better if we knew which juices to avoid but a study like this could put a lot of people out of business. At least this way the industry is now aware, we know they are aware, and they have a chance to make product adjustments.

 

[maddvaper]

Blah blah blah I don't even know why folks promote this shit.It sure dont help the cause.........

 

[Celtic Fog]

I give up lol.

 

[cherrycakes]

They should tell us what flavors at least

 

[HeadInClouds]

Well, we KNOW Flavor West has lied about diacetyl in their product... Any others?

Just so the history of diacetyl claims/testing for the major manufacturers is all in one place. These are the ones I know about:

Flavor West lied. They said they had no diacetyl in any flavors, but a juice vendor in Canada doubted that and sent a sample of FA Butterscotch to a lab. Analysis revealed massive quantities of diacetyl in there. FW has been removing the 'no diacetyl' claim from some flavorings. Meanwhile FW produced a short list of flavors they said had some diacetyl, but the list didn't include butterscotch.

Inawera lied. They told numerous people in personal emails that their products contained no diacetyl, no acetyl propionyl... They very recently produced a short list of flavors they say have some diacetyl: ""coffe, tiramisu, cappuccino, cocopilada knows tabacco, TOBACCO "APPLE", SHISHA FLAVOUR VANILLA TYPE, TABACCO "CAPPUCCINO" It was discussed here, partially in Dutch.

LorAnn lied. They used to claim that none of their products contained any diacetyl. That claim was on their website FAQ for a while. By late 2013 that claim disappeared. Next they said they could provide a list of flavors that contain it, but to my knowledge, they never did. Now if you contact them regarding ingredients they will tell you their products are not intended for inhalation.

Hangsen gives conflicting information to people who ask about their ingredients, depending on whom you ask. I don't what their current claim is.

Capella never denied the diacetyl in their flavorings, so far as I know. Given that they're now making 'version 2' of some flavors popular with vapers, and they claim v2 has no diacetyl, then anything not v2 may well contain it.

Nature's Flavors, when asked about diacetyl in the product line used for vaping, refuse to say; they do tell you their flavorings aren't designed for inhalation. They do have a product line specifically advertised as diacetyl-free, but those are gum arabic flavors that can't be used for vaping. The ones used by vapers do not claim to be diacetyl-free.

The Flavor Apprentice tests their flavorings and publishes results here. (click 'list' on the right of any flavor name) That info is incomplete and subject to frequent changes, but they are the only flavoring manufacturer who does this. The minimum amount they report is "<0.5%."

FlavourArt has a Kitchen Magic and an E-Cig line. Kitchen Magic flavors with diacetyl show an inhalation warning. Their E-Cig flavors (listed on their main website) have no diacetyl or related diketones. They used to list percents of diacetyl for Kitchen flavors that contained it, but now they just have the warning (and are not listed as an E-Cig flavor). Even flavors with less than 0.0012% diacetyl were removed from their E-Cig line. No other manufacturer tests with near this much precision.

One thing to be aware of: In the U.S., any product with <1% diacetyl can legally be labeled "diacetyl-free." I believe the cutoff for acetyl propionyl is also 1%. So a product can legally claim it has none while containing nearly 2%. To put that number in perspective, FlavourArt's Butter flavoring (has inhalation warning, not in their e-cig line) contains 1.5% diacetyl.

 

[RyGon]

Blah blah blah I don't even know why folks promote this shit.It sure dont help the cause.........

I just spent a little time watching the video and visiting the Facebook and website of Dr. Farsalinos. It seems to me he is helping "the cause", possibly more than any other single person. I'm not trying to argue with you guys. We should all stick together. Please post any evidence positive or negative. I want to be an informed vaper.

 

[BigNasty]

Thanks HIC I knew TFA and FA were pretty strict, did not know that about the others.
That narrows my list of flavor vendors to 2 now.

 

[RyGon]

Thanks HIC I knew TFA and FA were pretty strict, did not know that about the others.
That narrows my list of flavor vendors to 2 now.

Coincidentally that leaves 6/8 companies on that list which is 75%.
"Very Alarming News Dr. Farsalinos found that diacetyl was in 74% of the e-liquids that were tested."

 

[chickenmonkey]

European and US juice vendors. Only Dr F knows which vendors, and only those vendors know which flavorings they use. In other words, it's all a big secret. (This Invisibility Cloak means no vendor or manufacturer has any reason to change a thing.)

More reason to diy. Personally I will not be purchasing ready made again.

 

[VH fan]

Does anyone know why diacetyl is so often used in juice , what exactly is it's benefit and by not using it, is juice unvapable?

On another note, it does seem he is on the e cig industries side , sounds like he knows very well what can and will be used against us if changes are not made .

If he didn't bring it to light do you really think the people who want to ban e cigs won't figure it out eventually . I think this would scare the hell out of me if i was a juice or flavoring provider and i would change my ways real quick.

Some will always show ignorance and thats their deal but i think we have enough educated people out there who get it.

We probably should be thanking this guy not giving him shit , just my opinion.

 

[maddvaper]

Man I been vaping 3 yrs and only once have I got ahold of some that had diactyl in it (again I'm a diabetic and the shit shuts me right down so I know).Course I been mixing my own fluid 2 of that good point chickenmonkey;
Rygon if your that scared hell quit vaping but quit trying to ruin our lives........

 

[RyGon]

Man I been vaping 3 yrs and only once have I got ahold of some that had diactyl in it (again I'm a diabetic and the shit shuts me right down so I know).Course I been mixing my own fluid 2 of that good point chickenmonkey;
Rygon if your that scared hell quit vaping but quit trying to ruin our lives........

I don't know where I said I was scared and you think I'm trying to ruin your lives?

 

[cherrycakes]

More reason to diy. Personally I will not be purchasing ready made again.

but we are all basically using the same flavors

usually use flavor west and TFA but Idk now

 

[HeadInClouds]

Does anyone know why diacetyl is so often used in juice , what exactly is it's benefit and by not using it, is juice unvapable?

It's used in flavorings because - at least up to a certain threshold - it tastes good to most people. Too much tastes bad; to some people it tastes and smells literally like vomit, even in low amounts.

It's buttery, rich, creamy... It's the butter in waffle flavors, the tasty part of most butterscotch flavors, the richness of many bakery flavors, the rich-creaminess in most custard flavors, the buttery-smoothness in many caramel flavors, the 'butter' in peanut butter. But it's also used in fruit flavors to make them richer, especially musky/dark fruit/berry flavors.

Heck NO - it's not unvapeable without it. Nearly all of my recipes avoid it (by using FA's e-cig and tested TFA flavorings), and many are creamy, sweet, rich, and tasty. At least I think so. I love to experiment and find ways around using diacetyl and diketone substitutes ('custard notes'). It's not always easy to create rich, creamy flavor without custard notes (took me a year to figure out great chocolate), but it's totally possible to make great vapes, evidenced by many of the recipes posted here.

 

[SMOKIE]

Just so the history of diacetyl claims/testing for the major manufacturers is all in one place. These are the ones I know about:

Flavor West lied. They said they had no diacetyl in any flavors, but a juice vendor in Canada doubted that and sent a sample of FA Butterscotch to a lab. Analysis revealed massive quantities of diacetyl in there. FW has been removing the 'no diacetyl' claim from some flavorings. Meanwhile FW produced a short list of flavors they said had some diacetyl, but the list didn't include butterscotch.

Inawera lied. They told numerous people in personal emails that their products contained no diacetyl, no acetyl propionyl... They very recently produced a short list of flavors they say have some diacetyl: ""coffe, tiramisu, cappuccino, cocopilada knows tabacco, TOBACCO "APPLE", SHISHA FLAVOUR VANILLA TYPE, TABACCO "CAPPUCCINO" It was discussed here, partially in Dutch.

LorAnn lied. They used to claim that none of their products contained any diacetyl. That claim was on their website FAQ for a while. By late 2013 that claim disappeared. Next they said they could provide a list of flavors that contain it, but to my knowledge, they never did. Now if you contact them regarding ingredients they will tell you their products are not intended for inhalation.

Hangsen gives conflicting information to people who ask about their ingredients, depending on whom you ask. I don't what their current claim is.

Capella never denied the diacetyl in their flavorings, so far as I know. Given that they're now making 'version 2' of some flavors popular with vapers, and they claim v2 has no diacetyl, then anything not v2 may well contain it.

Nature's Flavors, when asked about diacetyl in the product line used for vaping, refuse to say; they do tell you their flavorings aren't designed for inhalation. They do have a product line specifically advertised as diacetyl-free, but those are gum arabic flavors that can't be used for vaping. The ones used by vapers do not claim to be diacetyl-free.

The Flavor Apprentice tests their flavorings and publishes results here. (click 'list' on the right of any flavor name) That info is incomplete and subject to frequent changes, but they are the only flavoring manufacturer who does this. The minimum amount they report is "<0.5%."

FlavourArt has a Kitchen Magic and an E-Cig line. Kitchen Magic flavors with diacetyl show an inhalation warning. Their E-Cig flavors (listed on their main website) have no diacetyl or related diketones. They used to list percents of diacetyl for Kitchen flavors that contained it, but now they just have the warning (and are not listed as an E-Cig flavor). Even flavors with less than 0.0012% diacetyl were removed from their E-Cig line. No other manufacturer tests with near this much precision.

One thing to be aware of: In the U.S., any product with <1% diacetyl can legally be labeled "diacetyl-free." I believe the cutoff for acetyl propionyl is also 1%. So a product can legally claim it has none while containing nearly 2%. To put that number in perspective, FlavourArt's Butter flavoring (has inhalation warning, not in their e-cig line) contains 1.5% diacetyl.

Thank you for this post, and I have shared it around so vapers can know what is really going on here.

 

[M5amhan]

Just so the history of diacetyl claims/testing for the major manufacturers is all in one place. These are the ones I know about:

Flavor West lied. They said they had no diacetyl in any flavors, but a juice vendor in Canada doubted that and sent a sample of FA Butterscotch to a lab. Analysis revealed massive quantities of diacetyl in there. FW has been removing the 'no diacetyl' claim from some flavorings. Meanwhile FW produced a short list of flavors they said had some diacetyl, but the list didn't include butterscotch.

Inawera lied. They told numerous people in personal emails that their products contained no diacetyl, no acetyl propionyl... They very recently produced a short list of flavors they say have some diacetyl: ""coffe, tiramisu, cappuccino, cocopilada knows tabacco, TOBACCO "APPLE", SHISHA FLAVOUR VANILLA TYPE, TABACCO "CAPPUCCINO" It was discussed here, partially in Dutch.

LorAnn lied. They used to claim that none of their products contained any diacetyl. That claim was on their website FAQ for a while. By late 2013 that claim disappeared. Next they said they could provide a list of flavors that contain it, but to my knowledge, they never did. Now if you contact them regarding ingredients they will tell you their products are not intended for inhalation.

Hangsen gives conflicting information to people who ask about their ingredients, depending on whom you ask. I don't what their current claim is.

Capella never denied the diacetyl in their flavorings, so far as I know. Given that they're now making 'version 2' of some flavors popular with vapers, and they claim v2 has no diacetyl, then anything not v2 may well contain it.

Nature's Flavors, when asked about diacetyl in the product line used for vaping, refuse to say; they do tell you their flavorings aren't designed for inhalation. They do have a product line specifically advertised as diacetyl-free, but those are gum arabic flavors that can't be used for vaping. The ones used by vapers do not claim to be diacetyl-free.

The Flavor Apprentice tests their flavorings and publishes results here. (click 'list' on the right of any flavor name) That info is incomplete and subject to frequent changes, but they are the only flavoring manufacturer who does this. The minimum amount they report is "<0.5%."

FlavourArt has a Kitchen Magic and an E-Cig line. Kitchen Magic flavors with diacetyl show an inhalation warning. Their E-Cig flavors (listed on their main website) have no diacetyl or related diketones. They used to list percents of diacetyl for Kitchen flavors that contained it, but now they just have the warning (and are not listed as an E-Cig flavor). Even flavors with less than 0.0012% diacetyl were removed from their E-Cig line. No other manufacturer tests with near this much precision.

One thing to be aware of: In the U.S., any product with <1% diacetyl can legally be labeled "diacetyl-free." I believe the cutoff for acetyl propionyl is also 1%. So a product can legally claim it has none while containing nearly 2%. To put that number in perspective, FlavourArt's Butter flavoring (has inhalation warning, not in their e-cig line) contains 1.5% diacetyl.

knew there was a reason i stick with capella, TFA, and FA thanks HIC

 

[soulshine]

I'm sorry, but all I can do now when "the sky starts to fall" in the vape community is just laugh. This has been the elephant in the room the whole time. Now Dr F puts out the study and all of a sudden reality comes crashing down. People convinced themselves that NO WAY would their favorite juice companies put them at risk, but where did you think they might be buying the flavorings from? Lala land? LOL

Not that I want to interrupt the "hysteria" but MOST of the liquids they were testing (per what Dimi said multiple times on his Smoke Free Radio show) that contained diacetyl were in the exact flavor profiles that you would EXPECT to find them...custards..vanillas..butterscotch..etc etc

Now let's address Dr F. He is not trying to kill you by not telling you who the vendors are...LMAO According to everything I've read and heard, MANY of the vendors had no idea. That happens when you have a fast growing industry that people with no experience jump into. Did they have bad intentions? Of course not. Did some know and not care? Sure they did. Listen to ClickBang from this past Monday and I guarantee you that you will never order Mother's Milk again..just sayin'. Dr F didn't publish the names because they wanted to inform the vendors and give them a chance to reformulate or pull liquids or do what they needed to do. That's fair IMO. I would appreciate it if I was in business. And to their credit, a lot of the vendors are doing something about it.

What can we do? Well I'm gonna guess that creating hysteria on message boards isn't the answer. First we need to understand that some vapers have the mentality that anything is going to be better than smoking and they will continue as normal. It's THEIR CHOICE. Nobody has died of popcorn lung from vaping yet. If you don't want potential exposure, stay away from the identified profiles. This is going to be the hard one because it requires action....EMAIL YOUR JUICE COMPANY!!! Get them to provide you with the testing results and if they refuse or can't provide it...go to someone who can. Make these people ACCOUNTABLE for what they are selling to you. If we all just want to sit back and make it someone else's responsibility to "take care of us"...then just do nothing because I promise the FDA is ready to step in and make alllll of those wishes come true...LOL Sorry for the long post. and I'm really not trying to offend anybody but we have to come up with some common sense freakin' ANSWERS and quit throwing our hands up because things aren't perfect anymore. When did we stop "self regulating"? That's always the best way to keep something the way you want it.

 

[disco180]

Does anyone know why diacetyl is so often used in juice , what exactly is it's benefit and by not using it, is juice unvapable?

On another note, it does seem he is on the e cig industries side , sounds like he knows very well what can and will be used against us if changes are not made .

If he didn't bring it to light do you really think the people who want to ban e cigs won't figure it out eventually . I think this would scare the hell out of me if i was a juice or flavoring provider and i would change my ways real quick.

Some will always show ignorance and thats their deal but i think we have enough educated people out there who get it.

We probably should be thanking this guy not giving him shit , just my opinion.

The studies done on vaping diacetyl is based on the popcorn lung theory people. This scare is related to people who where immersed in diacetyl for 8 hours a day or more (overtime) and worked for years, do the math on that, and guess what some people who work for popcorn flavoring companies actually retired after 20+ years...and do you think diacetyl was the only chemical in the air at the plant??

The one guy who sued and won ate 2 bags of microwave popcorn a day and said he used to smell the bag (really?)

You know how many years Capella's Vanilla Custard has been vaped? What about the all loved Grant's Vanilla Custard?

Showing ignorance is the fact of ignoring that this study is helping to build a strong case on the ban of e-cigs and e-juice. To do a study and not reveal specifics is an ambiguous attack against a specific community to instill fear and loathing against that community. Its like saying no college grads live in trailer parks after interviewing a handful of trailer park residents.

 

[soulshine]

It's used in flavorings because - at least up to a certain threshold - it tastes good to most people. Too much tastes bad; to some people it tastes and smells literally like vomit, even in low amounts.

It's buttery, rich, creamy... It's the butter in waffle flavors, the tasty part of most butterscotch flavors, the richness of many bakery flavors, the rich-creaminess in most custard flavors, the buttery-smoothness in many caramel flavors, the 'butter' in peanut butter. But it's also used in fruit flavors to make them richer, especially musky/dark fruit/berry flavors.

Heck NO - it's not unvapeable without it. Nearly all of my recipes avoid it (by using FA's e-cig and tested TFA flavorings), and many are creamy, sweet, rich, and tasty. At least I think so. I love to experiment and find ways around using diacetyl and diketone substitutes ('custard notes'). It's not always easy to create rich, creamy flavor without custard notes (took me a year to figure out great chocolate), but it's totally possible to make great vapes, evidenced by many of the recipes posted here.

HIC here's your big shot! "HIC's Guide to Diacetyl Free Vaping"! Can I be your agent??!!

 

[RyGon]

HIC here's your big shot! "HIC's Guide to Diacetyl Free Vaping"! Can I be your agent??!!

I'd buy it.

HICs Diacetyl free DIY e-juice starter kit. The book, 30 x 3ml flavourart flavorings, 120ml VT nic, big bottle of VG.

 

[cherrycakes]

The studies done on vaping diacetyl is based on the popcorn lung theory people. This scare is related to people who where immersed in diacetyl for 8 hours a day or more (overtime) and worked for years, do the math on that, and guess what some people who work for popcorn flavoring companies actually retired after 20+ years...and do you think diacetyl was the only chemical in the air at the plant??

The one guy who sued and won ate 2 bags of microwave popcorn a day and said he used to smell the bag (really?)

You know how many years Capella's Vanilla Custard has been vaped? What about the all loved Grant's Vanilla Custard?

Showing ignorance is the fact of ignoring that this study is helping to build a strong case on the ban of e-cigs and e-juice. To do a study and not reveal specifics is an ambiguous attack against a specific community to instill fear and loathing against that community. Its like saying no college grads live in trailer parks after interviewing a handful of trailer park residents.

for fuck's sake though
I was vaping 1 year and 6 months ago for the first time
and we knew then that the shit was bad
Last I heard everyone was removing the juices containing diacetyl from their sites
I come back to vaping world only to find out they were just lying??

 

[soulshine]

[/QUOTE]Showing ignorance is the fact of ignoring that this study is helping to build a strong case on the ban of e-cigs and e-juice. To do a study and not reveal specifics is an ambiguous attack against a specific community to instill fear and loathing against that community. Its like saying no college grads live in trailer parks after interviewing a handful of trailer park residents.[/QUOTE]

Disco, I'm not sure I see your point here. Now I could be wrong, but to the best of my knowledge, the only "specific" left out of the study was the names of the vendors for the reasons in my post above. Now with regard to the study being "damaging", it just kinda is what it is...right? I mean if the FDA had done the study, can you imagine the REALLY negative slant that would have been put on it? We all knew it...it's been talked about for years (since 2009 I believe). This study confirmed it. Would be better for us not to "officially know" and wait for the FDA to hammer us with it? How is Dr F at any fault at all? Like I said, many of the vendors didn't know. And since being informed MANY of them have started to reformulate or pull a lot of the identified juices. We KNOW vaping is safer than smoking. We've all seen the benefits in our own lives and those of our friends and loved ones. But not all studies are going to say what we want them to say. We can't and shouldn't be like the government in that way...LOL We can only use the info that comes out to make better decisions and try to fix the things we can.

Edit: Top was from Disco's Post

 

[M5amhan]

Disco, I'm not sure I see your point here. Now I could be wrong, but to the best of my knowledge, the only "specific" left out of the study was the names of the vendors for the reasons in my post above. Now with regard to the study being "damaging", it just kinda is what it is...right? I mean if the FDA had done the study, can you imagine the REALLY negative slant that would have been put on it? We all knew it...it's been talked about for years (since 2009 I believe). This study confirmed it. Would be better for us not to "officially know" and wait for the FDA to hammer us with it? How is Dr F at any fault at all? Like I said, many of the vendors didn't know. And since being informed MANY of them have started to reformulate or pull a lot of the identified juices. We KNOW vaping is safer than smoking. We've all seen the benefits in our own lives and those of our friends and loved ones. But not all studies are going to say what we want them to say. We can't and shouldn't be like the government in that way...LOL We can only use the info that comes out to make better decisions and try to fix the things we can.

exactly all ive seen this study do is bring a lot of attention to a subject that should have had a lot of attention a long time ago. vendors making changes and vapers becoming more informed and taking on more responsibility in what they buy. that's a positive and it needed to happen, better than the FDA using it to crucify us. if this is how we handle things in the vape world im cool with that as long as it's handled

 

[EthelMaltol]

Thanks for the Click Bang tip! I know 2 vendors who have reformulated due to the study, one I spoke to in person, the there online. One of the best tips I heard was to get some diacetyl flavoring and taste it. It has a very distinctive taste, just as does a peach, etc. Once you know that taste, you will be able to identify it in your juices. Imo, the most delicious juices contain it. If you diy, you have info from two companies that will help you avoid it for the most part. We usually vape more than 40 hours in a week, so we would be getting more frequent doses. Someone mentioned an ecf survey that was used to choose most of the juices. That would be one way to identify the vendors. I get tired of hearing that vaping is worse than smoking! Not only should this NOT be the case, but it should also not be a fairly popular conception. Why would smokers make the switch to what they think is worse? We all need to clean up our acts! Kudos to Hingham Hill and Timeless for taking action in our favor!

 

[soulshine]

No problem EthelMaltol! I personally have never tried that company's juices but I don't think Russ would tell THAT story if it wasn't true. You could tell how shocked he was. There's also some VERY entertaining info on Vapemania last weekend...LOL Enjoy!

 

[AmandaD]

I'm one of the ones who can taste it easily - tastes just like vomit to me. Strange, because when I first started vaping last year I was addicted to custards with that taste! Now I can't stand the taste.

 

[Cloudy Peak Vapes]

This is disconcerting, but if true, these companies that say their juice is diacetyl free are opening themselves up to some serious litigation. If it truly is as bad as this suggests, we are talking future class action lawsuits. That's our society.

 

[dr_rox]

This is disconcerting, but if true, these companies that say their juice is diacetyl free are opening themselves up to some serious litigation. If it truly is as bad as this suggests, we are talking future class action lawsuits. That's our society.

Most of the flavoring companies including TFA say that their goods are not tested or intended for inhaling. If they are used for a purpose they were not intended, their liability is questionable. TFA gives a list of ingredients for you to peruse and make and educated choice. The labeling requirements are for the intended use too, so if there is diacetyl <1%, that may be safe for eating, but not vaping.

Since they are produced in an enviroment where they may be inhaled by workers, there is info linked below and another link to NIOSH guidelines for manufacturing flavorings. The places I have seen where they produce this stuff, workers wear minimally a half face mask with carbon or the organic molecule filters since these flavor molecules are usually very small. Sometimes the masks are worn so the smells do not linger - ie, comfort of the worker - or are required due to concentrations of aromatics in the environment.

http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/flavorings/exposure.html

 

[RyGon]

As HIC said above, Flavourart does have an e-cig flavoring line.