Wake Up Bomb

[MyMagicMist]

First, let me post the article link.

India bans e-cigarettes as global backlash at vaping gathers pace

Now, I'll post a link using Google News. And then another link to the same from Ecosia News. Finally, I'll conclude with the presentation of that negativity by saying, you now got plenty of sources available to learn the basics. I am not making anything up, fabricating, deceiving, lying, falsifying a thing. It is as bad as all that. Consider India had 42 million vapers.

The same excuse is used there as here. "We need to consider the children."

Alright let me go out on a bit of limb here. First, I have no children of my own. It kind of irritates me to have to consider the children of others as I view it as a bit of a biological insult. I'm unable to naturally father children and financially unable to adopt children. Well, I help my wife adopt non-human children and we certainly take good care of them. That is not my point though, my point is I have to consider other people's children and in as much as it makes me sad it irritates me.

That noted and out of the way I want to play devil's advocate here to unpack the expression, "we must consider the children." Must we really? We are told we must so then why do not consider the children that die from starvation annually? Why not consider the children that are in homes where adults abuse and or neglect them? Do we consider the children that are in our United Nation's asking us to be responsible adults and save the only home any of us know? Do we consider the children that never learn to read?

Well, we're told it is not feasible to consider those dying from starvation. America wastes enough food annually to feed these children twice over, proved fact. All that needs done is working out the logistics, distribution. Yes, I know that is a bit of a monumental task. I know though it can be done. It will not be though because there's no will for it to be so. Impossible is an adjective that simply means someone else did it before you, and is describing the severity of difficulty it required to do. Do not tell me it is impossible. I know better, I know it can be done.

Can Bikers Against Child Abuse take all the children out of deplorable homes and find them suitable homes? Would law enforcement stand aside to let that happen? I doubt it. No, law enforcement would likely send the children off to protective services. Sure, just a politically correct name for even worse treatment at the best of times. Children need love not sterilized institutions, or people paid to give them three hots and a cot until they turn eighteen then dump them out to make room for the next paycheck, erm, child. Yes children also need discipline and a host of other stuff I am summarily omitting here. My rationale for omission is brevity. Yes, trust me I could make this longer by far.

I think I've stated my pointed on which children do we consider, or even how we really consider them. Point of fact it is patently clear that we might offer degrees of lip service in "considering the children." We apparently do not.

Now, I know that we as vapers did for fact consider the children. I'll not need anyone reminding me of that, thanks. Here though is my point. Our leadership is going to use that as weapon against us, "consider the children". We need to fully take that away from them. Can we start pointing out how bad pollution from petroleum fuels are to children? Maybe we can point out about children starving? The whole tactic will be to call them out as hypocrites. They obviously do not care about the children. Our solution is working. Vaping is stopping smoking. Children are not becoming smokers.

Some of us adults did care about the children. There's mothers who lost husbands from cancer and realized they were smoking in front of their children. There's fathers setting the example to children by not smoking, aunts, uncles, cousins, grandparents too. We know this. What we need to do is to let the world know it as well. We need to expose the hypocrisy and lying the leadership is doing that will cinch the market up again for tobacco and pharmaceutical interests. We did something mighty, something brave. We took a stand. Now, we need to dig the fuck in and lay siege!

 

[lordmage]

i can't disagree with your viewpoint that is for sure but we all know "for the children" is smokescreen for "the MSA Bonds" let me add to your research if your not already aware https://bit.ly/2lRcfUI

 

[MyMagicMist]

i can't disagree with your viewpoint that is for sure but we all know "for the children" is smokescreen for "the MSA Bonds" let me add to your research if your not already aware https://bit.ly/2lRcfUI

Thank you for that. I will check in there periodically for further info. Unfortunately, I living in WV can not join the group. This is understandable though and it's okay.

I could postulate that if Wells Fargo has that kind of advanced research, the bankers have prepared to create a war well long before now. This does return me to a maxim I stated recently borrowed from Major General Smedley Butler.

And let us not forget the bankers who financed the great war. If anyone had the cream of the profits it was the bankers. Being partnerships rather than incorporated organizations, they do not have to report to stockholders. And their profits were as secret as they were immense. How the bankers made their millions and their billions I do not know, because those little secrets never become public -- even before a Senate investigatory body.

To whit my maxim became, all war is banker's war. Being Agnostic I am still highly appreciative of what Jesus the Christ taught in flipping the money changer's tables in the temple. He was reviled by Pharisees, just as we now probably should muster our disdain of them. It is clear they only care for Mammon, and sating their own greed.

I have said this was all evil afoot. There's the proof. Side note: I did not start as Agnostic. I started as Mennonite, then general down home country Baptist. I had a Mennonite reverend tell me to keep asking questions even if no one could answer, or they said that my questions were blasphemy. He explained I would in due course find my own path, weather God helped, or not.

I fairly well have studied and explored a laundry list of religions in my life. Feel comforted and secure being Agnostic. Not saying anyone else needs to be. Find your own path, follow it. Respect me following mine the same as I respect you on yours. I won't be any trouble to you, so long as we agree that harming others for religion is a no go. This includes possibly attempting conversions, indoctrinations against the will, or before age of reasoning. In that, give everyone their own choice. Free will was another of Jesus' teachings I respect.

And to me it seems this "war on vaping" brings it right to the fore. People need the free will to choose vaping, a safer alternative. Those wanting to quash vaping do not want us having that free will. Hopefully that can help explain my passion in this.

To those seeking to quash vaping and reading herein, I have a message for you.

GO UNFUCK YOURSELVES!

I tell you goodbye and I mean it eternally. You have burned all bridges with me, forfeited all hopes of ever being welcomed by me as a friend. I now consider you an enemy one not worth fucking with because you've no power. It is clear you lack power from your cowardly attack upon free will. It is cowardly because free will frightens you. Free will lets people decide to not buy anything you produce. Free will lets your coffers empty in having to keep providing for yourself. Free will lets us who under your foot, learned to do without, share with one another, help each other, love.

See? Love has already won. You fear people knowing that. Love destroys all your presumed power. Love destroyed Rome. The "barbarians" loved living, loved being free. Rome tried stopping that, it was destroyed. All empires fall.

For the record too, I am not angered, upset. I am cold, deadly cold. Such is my rage that it chills me. It also causes me to create and execute focus. I no longer get angry in the sense I once did. That way solves nothing. That way might be violent. So, I have learned to be cold, to rationalize, to create means where others find none. Barring all else I might sick my younger brother on you. As sick a mind as I have, he recently showed me that he is by volumes of infinity sicker. I would not desire having him angry at me for knowing just hints of what he may do.

 

[Rhianne]

Thank you for that. I will check in there periodically for further info. Unfortunately, I living in WV can not join the group. This is understandable though and it's okay.

I could postulate that if Wells Fargo has that kind of advanced research, the bankers have prepared to create a war well long before now. This does return me to a maxim I stated recently borrowed from Major General Smedley Butler.



To whit my maxim became, all war is banker's war. Being Agnostic I am still highly appreciative of what Jesus the Christ taught in flipping the money changer's tables in the temple. He was reviled by Pharisees, just as we now probably should muster our disdain of them. It is clear they only care for Mammon, and sating their own greed.

I have said this was all evil afoot. There's the proof. Side note: I did not start as Agnostic. I started as Mennonite, then general down home country Baptist. I had a Mennonite reverend tell me to keep asking questions even if no one could answer, or they said that my questions were blasphemy. He explained I would in due course find my own path, weather God helped, or not.

I fairly well have studied and explored a laundry list of religions in my life. Feel comforted and secure being Agnostic. Not saying anyone else needs to be. Find your own path, follow it. Respect me following mine the same as I respect you on yours. I won't be any trouble to you, so long as we agree that harming others for religion is a no go. This includes possibly attempting conversions, indoctrinations against the will, or before age of reasoning. In that, give everyone their own choice. Free will was another of Jesus' teachings I respect.

And to me it seems this "war on vaping" brings it right to the fore. People need the free will to choose vaping, a safer alternative. Those wanting to quash vaping do not want us having that free will. Hopefully that can help explain my passion in this.

To those seeking to quash vaping and reading herein, I have a message for you.

GO UNFUCK YOURSELVES!

I tell you goodbye and I mean it eternally. You have burned all bridges with me, forfeited all hopes of ever being welcomed by me as a friend. I now consider you an enemy one not worth fucking with because you've no power. It is clear you lack power from your cowardly attack upon free will. It is cowardly because free will frightens you. Free will lets people decide to not buy anything you produce. Free will lets your coffers empty in having to keep providing for yourself. Free will lets us who under your foot, learned to do without, share with one another, help each other, love.

See? Love has already won. You fear people knowing that. Love destroys all your presumed power. Love destroyed Rome. The "barbarians" loved living, loved being free. Rome tried stopping that, it was destroyed. All empires fall.

For the record too, I am not angered, upset. I am cold, deadly cold. Such is my rage that it chills me. It also causes me to create and execute focus. I no longer get angry in the sense I once did. That way solves nothing. That way might be violent. So, I have learned to be cold, to rationalize, to create means where others find none. Barring all else I might sick my younger brother on you. As sick a mind as I have, he recently showed me that he is by volumes of infinity sicker. I would not desire having him angry at me for knowing just hints of what he may do.

No wonder you were peeved when I told you to un fuck. Crikey, I had no idea. I got that from My Beautiful Laundrette!
So now, kindly GFY again. Times three.

 

[MyMagicMist]

No wonder you were peeved when I told you to un fuck. Crikey, I had no idea.

Yep. Rough seeing the possibilities of stuff happening, feeling helpless. Got a better feeling of things despite my wife possibly losing her job today. The "new" manager they got at her Goodwill shop isn't a manager t'all. Christy heard one of her alarms go off, missed her second one. She was texting and letting the manager know she was less than ten minutes to being in.

Chris usually goes in 10 AM or after but this manager has been making her come in at 9, but only randomly without any real advanced scheduling. Chris got up roughly ten minutes after 9, was going to go out to work, the manager texted she may as well stay home without good reason for being late.

Now, understand my wife is like me, a worker. She is rarely late and 9 out of 10 times she calls off due to illness she's nearly dying sick. That aside my wife also has the same streak of with shit we do not with put up. She texted the manager back that she doubted any reason would be good. So, then the manager ragged her like she is Chris' mommy or something, saying staying up late all night was not an excuse. I was in bed by 10 last night, Chris was not far behind me, 11 at the latest.

Still despite this seeming drama, got a bit of a good feeling over all. Yes, I apologized for not getting her up. She told me it was not on me. I told her I didn't think so but still felt I owed apology, that I was used to her being able to look out for herself well. She again emphasized her alarms likely not having gone off properly. So no, it wasn't a case of "bad hubby" making a wife miss work.

Well, I need to get a medicine for cortisol and rack out. *hug* Bright shine the night in the light.

 

[Rhianne]

Yep. Rough seeing the possibilities of stuff happening, feeling helpless. Got a better feeling of things despite my wife possibly losing her job today. The "new" manager they got at her Goodwill shop isn't a manager t'all. Christy heard one of her alarms go off, missed her second one. She was texting and letting the manager know she was less than ten minutes to being in.

Chris usually goes in 10 AM or after but this manager has been making her come in at 9, but only randomly without any real advanced scheduling. Chris got up roughly ten minutes after 9, was going to go out to work, the manager texted she may as well stay home without good reason for being late.

Now, understand my wife is like me, a worker. She is rarely late and 9 out of 10 times she calls off due to illness she's nearly dying sick. That aside my wife also has the same streak of with shit we do not with put up. She texted the manager back that she doubted any reason would be good. So, then the manager ragged her like she is Chris' mommy or something, saying staying up late all night was not an excuse. I was in bed by 10 last night, Chris was not far behind me, 11 at the latest.

Still despite this seeming drama, got a bit of a good feeling over all. Yes, I apologized for not getting her up. She told me it was not on me. I told her I didn't think so but still felt I owed apology, that I was used to her being able to look out for herself well. She again emphasized her alarms likely not having gone off properly. So no, it wasn't a case of "bad hubby" making a wife miss work.

Well, I need to get a medicine for cortisol and rack out. *hug* Bright shine the night in the light.

You’re lucky to have a great wife, bro. I so hope things get straightened out. I figure that Chrissy is the smartest one in that shop, and the new manager might feel threatened on some level. I hate when stupid shit like that happens. Sigh.
Imagine that I typed those a thousand and one times!

 

[The Cromwell]

Another side effect of the India vaping ban is that China lost close to 1/2 of it's customer base for vaping products.
Several vape manufacturers will close or consolidate and downsize product line as a result.
And when the USA market closes too...

 

[lordmage]

Another side effect of the India vaping ban is that China lost close to 1/2 of it's customer base for vaping products.
Several vape manufacturers will close or consolidate and downsize product line as a result.
And when the USA market closes too...

might also explain why aliexpress cut off the USA. they may just do away with vape but i think that is more to do with Juul taking over there other markets.

 

[The Cromwell]

might also explain why aliexpress cut off the USA. they may just do away with vape but i think that is more to do with Juul taking over there other markets.

I am not so sure that there have not been official communications between US govt officials and Chinese vape vendors. Possibly in the trade negotiation talks...
it is after all against the Deeming regs to import any vape stuff to the USA. Particularly stuff not on the US market prior to 8-8-2016. Which is pretty much everything vape related that is currently imported.

This would also make a softer landing for when the Deeming regs are fully enforced.

some in our government may be doing a bit of planning...

 

[Rhianne]

might also explain why aliexpress cut off the USA. they may just do away with vape but i think that is more to do with Juul taking over there other markets.

Because Juul moved into the Chinese market. And this way the Chinese will possibly stop making vape gear for us “white eyes”. And just make Juuls. Great, sigh.

 

[lordmage]

I am not so sure that there have not been official communications between US govt officials and Chinese vape vendors. Possibly in the trade negotiation talks...
it is after all against the Deeming regs to import any vape stuff to the USA. Particularly stuff not on the US market prior to 8-8-2016. Which is pretty much everything vape related that is currently imported.

This would also make a softer landing for when the Deeming regs are fully enforced.

some in our government may be doing a bit of planning...

i think if true and found out we have a new tea party on are hands...

 

[Rhianne]

I am not so sure that there have not been official communications between US govt officials and Chinese vape vendors. Possibly in the trade negotiation talks...
it is after all against the Deeming regs to import any vape stuff to the USA. Particularly stuff not on the US market prior to 8-8-2016. Which is pretty much everything vape related that is currently imported.

This would also make a softer landing for when the Deeming regs are fully enforced.

some in our government may be doing a bit of planning...

And very much to our detriment. It’s like watching a puzzle come together.

 

[The Cromwell]

i think if true and found out we have a new tea party on are hands...

Why? it has been there in front of us since 8-8-2016.
Importation of non FDA approved vape stuff is banned in the regs.

The FDA/govt can enforce the deeming regs any time they choose all the deadlines have passed.

the looming FDA nationwide flavor ban is yet another way to ease into total Deeming enforcement.
And getting some states to do it before the FDA was a smart move. for the FDA at least.
that way any legal issues will be settled before next May.
Sucky, really sucky for us.

 

[MyMagicMist]

Importation of non FDA approved vape stuff is banned in the regs.

These are only regulations though, correct?

Follow along with me a minute, please. The FDA can offer suggestions in the form of regulations. Is it still not up to Congress to legislate to pass those regulations to law? For example the FDA regulations list co cane as a narcotic, Congress then passes a law to make co cane illegal. Yes, I know I misspelled a word twice.

I'm doing so to discuss an issue of law and drugs but not in a way that glorifies or condones use of illicit drugs. If I spell it correctly the hard coded forum software will flag the discussion for moderation. Sorry, I think I'm adult enough to not warrant that in this case. I am not discussing anything illegal, rather the process of legality itself. I further think those involved in the discussion can see that and act as adult, mature as well.

If that offends anyone recall the rules of A,B,C conversations. Party A is talking to party B, you possibly need to C your way out of the conversation.That is not intended as rude, crass, derogatory, mean. It is simply a statement that this conversation is not intended to offend but rather possibly inform.

Also in looking it up I come across a point that statutes are governed by consent. Will continue research later on. Need to go tend life.

 

[lordmage]

The FDA was given the permission to regulate Vape as tobacco Per the Deeming regulation which states what can be marketed and sold legally which the laws will enforce. Most states already have Tobacco Sales laws and interstate regulations which is what the deeming did called vape tobacco products. all this did was set the grandfather date and set the process for approvals which is to costly for most if not all companies to afford and we know china dont care about us laws. so now imports can be controlled if found during a not so random search.

 

[The Cromwell]

These are only regulations though, correct?

Follow along with me a minute, please. The FDA can offer suggestions in the form of regulations. Is it still not up to Congress to legislate to pass those regulations to law? For example the FDA regulations list co cane as a narcotic, Congress then passes a law to make co cane illegal. Yes, I know I misspelled a word twice.

I'm doing so to discuss an issue of law and drugs but not in a way that glorifies or condones use of illicit drugs. If I spell it correctly the hard coded forum software will flag the discussion for moderation. Sorry, I think I'm adult enough to not warrant that in this case. I am not discussing anything illegal, rather the process of legality itself. I further think those involved in the discussion can see that and act as adult, mature as well.

If that offends anyone recall the rules of A,B,C conversations. Party A is talking to party B, you possibly need to C your way out of the conversation.That is not intended as rude, crass, derogatory, mean. It is simply a statement that this conversation is not intended to offend but rather possibly inform.

Also in looking it up I come across a point that statutes are governed by consent. Will continue research later on. Need to go tend life.

Ahh but it is all covered under the tobacco control act and such legislation passed by congress giving the FDA the authority.

 

[The Cromwell]

The FDA was given the permission to regulate Vape as tobacco Per the Deeming regulation which states what can be marketed and sold legally which the laws will enforce. Most states already have Tobacco Sales laws and interstate regulations which is what the deeming did called vape tobacco products. all this did was set the grandfather date and set the process for approvals which is to costly for most if not all companies to afford and we know china dont care about us laws. so now imports can be controlled if found during a not so random search.

The deadline for filing PMTA apps for vape stuff on the market prior to 8-8-2016 was extended but has since expired.
And so far NO vape stuff is FDA approved.
And selling of any vape item not for sale in the USA prior to 8-8-2016 has never been permissanble without PRIOR FDA PMTA approval. The FDA was just not enforcing their regs. However a court case changed that and now they mUST enforce the deeming reegs by next May 12. Nothing says that they have to wait till then to begin enforcement though.

As I read it they are supposed to be in full enforcement by then.

the easiest way to stop importation is to get the vape companys to stop selling to the USA.
since they are in violation of the deeming regs as well for selling stuff to US locations.
Yeah I know lotsa luck on prosecuting them but it can be done thru other channels such as trade negotiations. Every wonder why the recent rhetoric about counterfeit vape stuff from China?

 

[lordmage]

true and that was my point both the TCA and the DEEming are the law and the regulation that mist was asking about. the FDA makes the regulation in this Case the Deeming and the TCA is how it will be enforced.

 

[The Cromwell]

true and that was my point both the TCA and the DEEming are the law and the regulation that mist was asking about. the FDA makes the regulation in this Case the Deeming and the TCA is how it will be enforced.

Yep. the FDA was given the power by legislation to regulate vaping as a tobacco product.

And the deeming regs spells out fines for violations. Which can total a million dollars or more for repeated violations.
And violators that sell other regular tobacco products can lose their licence to do so if they violate the deeming regs on vape. So goodbye convenience and gas station sales.

why do you think so many chains are beginning to drop the sales of vape stuff?

 

[Rhianne]

Yep. the FDA was given the power by legislation to regulate vaping as a tobacco product.

And the deeming regs spells out fines for violations. Which can total a million dollars or more for repeated violations.
And violators that sell other regular tobacco products can lose their licence to do so if they violate the deeming regs on vape. So goodbye convenience and gas station sales.

why do you think so many chains are beginning to drop the sales of vape stuff?

So many people who vape but don’t keep up with things are going to get a real shock if this turns out as worst case scenario! I feel sorry for vendors like my local ciggie guy/convenience store. He just started selling vape gear and he’s probably liking the extra money. I haven’t seen any vapers in the area, but he’s right by a subway station. Nobody wins in this situation.

 

[MyMagicMist]

Nobody wins in this situation.

Welcome to war.

Although, like I have said before the bankers holding paper for both sides will win. They profit no matter what happens. Most likely is they stay with the entrenched status quo of big tobacco. This ensures greater profit margin, and the extra value added widespread death to further protect their assets. Fewer people living to scheme of ways to take bank money, always a plus.

Sadly and even realistically, this is the truth of it. Easy to comprehend why people are so irate over the issue. When you consider it was smokers that found their own way free of smoking, now it is being taken away by others the righteous indignation is genuinely righteous. It gets harder to answer a question I ask myself, "why would it be a bad thing to burn it all up?"

Not that I endorse or condone "Purge" style Anarchy. Something needs to change though.