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slayer420-x

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I have a IPV2.1 50 watt box mod, and use a tugboat v2 clone. I have 26 gauge and have 24 gauge coming tomorrow. And use Koh Gen Do Japanese cotton.I am wondering what type of build I should be doing with the mod I have now. I have only done single coils so far, building around 1-1.2 ohm single coils with 26 gauge about 9 wraps around 2.4 mm precision screwdriver. I vape my 1.2 single coils at like 25 watts. I want to try dual coils though. I am just wondering what would be the best build i should do with my 50 watt box mod and tugboat v2. People have said i shouldn't use 50 watts for rdas and need like 100 w. maybe ill get a sig 150w or something eventually but i can't afford it at the moment. So am i even able to do dual coils with my 50 watt? I have a efest 35 A 2500 MAH in it. but there 20 amp continuous. IPV2.1 can go down to .2, but I'm wondering what i should build when i try duals. like i said i have 24 gauge coming so id like to try that, like i could do .4 or .5 duals at 50 watts ok couldn't I? i realize i would only get 3-4 hours like that. just wanna know what i can do with it, like 26 or 24 gauge, what diameter, 2.5 mm or 3 mm, how many wraps etc. thanks :)
 

State O' Flux

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Adding to Neunerball's post... a bit more useful info, as it applies in Steam Engine.

The practical applications of heat flux, wire gauge, parallel wire count & net resistance as they relate to... the simplicity of a mech mod vs. the independent wattage control of regulated mod.

In simpler terms... the Ohm's law limitations of mechs vs. the ability to "force" wattage with an APV... as it effects user vaping performance / satisfaction.

I'll keep this relatively short. If you've read the Steam Engine User Guides - parts 1 and 2... then you (probably) have a good handle on the fine tuning aspects of your builds. If not... then much of this may be beyond your current knowledge level. We're dealing with potentially high wattages and current values, so be smart and play it safe... until you really have a good understanding of the variables.
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Trust me when I tell you, although I'm a true lover of mech mods... in actual fact, if you don't give a crap about the Ohm's law knowledge prerequisite, "battery holder" simplicity (and "style"?) that mechs provide... the high-output, regulated APV is the way to go... if you want more build freedom than Ohm's law will allow.
(But you should still know your OL formulas... m-kay?)
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Without independent regulation, a battery will discharge wattage/amperage at a rate determined by net resistance and voltage.
  • For wattage ("Power") the formula is V² ÷ Ω = P
  • For amperage ("Current"), the formula is V ÷ Ω = C.
The calculated wattage doesn't care about your wire gauge or coils in parallel count... just the net resistance and battery voltage.
Heat flux is the coil(s) radiant heat, expressed in milliwatts per millimeter of coil surface area... squared. For our purposes... it's simply how warm you perceive your vape to be.
Heat flux does care about the wire gauge, coils in parallel count and net resistance, and is directly affected by them, both together and independently.
With that out of the way, lets move on to examples. All values are arrived at using the Steam Engine vapist's calculator.
With a mech mod... if you want to run at 0.5Ω with a heat flux of approximately 300 mW/mm² +/- ...
Ohm's law formula calculates this to be a discharge of 35 watts @ 4.2v (and less as the battery voltage diminishes) ...
Disregarding wrap count and surface area for now, for a single coil, you must use 24 gauge (or thinner) wire... for dual coils you must use 28 gauge (or thinner) wire. That comes out to 309 & 311 mW/mm² respectively.
With a regulated wattage mod (for consistency, we'll call this a 250 watt output APV) you can use what ever wire and build you want... or at least a broader spread of possibilities.

A 300 mW/mm², 26 gauge dual parallel build at 0.7Ω? No problem. 95 watts will provide 300 mW/mm2 even. With a mech, you simply can't do it (at least, not with 26 gauge - try 30 ga.)... Ohm's law dictates that you will discharge only 25 watts, for a stone cold 39 mW/mm² with 26 gauge wire.
Another example... lets go deep sub-ohm, say 0.2Ω, with a quad parallel 24 gauge build. From a mech mod, Ohm's law dictates 88 watts @ 4.2v.
Run those numbers through Steam Engine, and we get a very cool 121 mW/mm². With a regulated mod, all we need to do is run at 218 watts to obtain our HF of 301 mW/mm².

Can we get 300 mW/mm² from a 0.2Ω, quad parallel 24 gauge build with a mech? Yes, we can. but it can only be done with 27 gauge wire, for a slightly hotter than desired, 345 mW/mm².

So what does all this mean to you? The most important values to the vapist are heat flux, parallel coil count net coil surface area, wire gauge and net resistance.

My personal preferences are, in order - coil surface area, heat flux and resistance. What ever wire gauge will provide those values will be what I use.
Mech mods pretty much require that order... and I'm sorry for you, if all you have is 24 gauge and want a dual parallel, mid sub-ohm net resistance build.
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Secondary values are heat capacity ("lag time" to desired temperature) and leg power loss... which is the percentage of power wasted heating the legs. This last value is based on wire mass/density... the greater the mass, the more energy wasted to the coil legs.
I'd not get too spun up if something is a bit high, but keep an eye out for extremes. Steam Engine will actually change color in the value box if something is extraordinarily off the mark.
In either case, we want low numbers... and to obtain those low numbers (and good primary values), we need to perhaps use thinner wire than we'd prefer... or possibly a higher net resistance, or a single coil build, when we'd prefer a dual parallel build.

With a regulated mod, you don't have total freedom in the sense that you can do stupid stuff, but... the range of possibilities opens up greatly when you can force wattage above that of the unregulated Ohm's law discharge.
 

slayer420-x

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I actually have 28, 26, 24 gauge kanthal now. I appreciate that info i dont fully understand all of steam engine yet. I'd like to try dual coil, just not sure what to build & how low. I like a warm vape and dense big clouds. Probably shouldnt use 24 for dual? itd be like .3,.4, maybe i should use the 24 for singles to do .5, .7 single. And use 26 for duals would .5 be ok, like 8-9 wraps.
 

Cloudboss

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being an ipv it is a regulated mod that wont let you fire somthing it cant handle. i personally would build a dual coil and i aim for between .5 and 1 ohm. vape that sucker at 50 watts and it will crank out the vapor!
 

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