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What do you guys typically use for your cores?

twan013

Bronze Contributor
Member For 2 Years
When I try to use some prebuilt Clapton's or wrap my own from a spool I have, they take forever to heat up. All of the wire I have has 28g cores. Plus, my ohms come out higher than what coil tool or the package of my skynet kit says it should be. I can pretty much bust out a single wire dual coil build and it be spot on. I really want to see what the deal with Clapton is but I'm just not enjoying it at all. If I turn up the power, it gets too hot and I get spitback. Any advice? How much difference will it make if I just take a wrap out of each of my prebuilt coils?

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ScReWbALL

Silver Contributor
Member For 4 Years
What alloy are the prebuilt claptons you are getting using? 28ga Kanthal core with 36ga Kanthal wrap wire?


You're not drinking water are you?! You realize that stuff is found in antifreeze!?!
 

BKTOAD

Silver Contributor
Member For 4 Years
The problem is probably the wrap wire.

My guess is your prebuilt clapton wire uses 32g wire.

36g at the biggest is what is generally recommended.

Bigger wrap wire = waaayyy longer ramp time.
 

twan013

Bronze Contributor
Member For 2 Years
28g wrapped with 32g kanthal on both. And then my spool of Clapton wire is 26g ss316l wrapped with 30g 316l

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ScReWbALL

Silver Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Comparing same gauge to same gauge the order of ramp up time goes Kanthal is the slowest, Nichrome 80 is faster, SS316L Fastest. SS316L might be too fast for some and get too hot, so, a good hybrid works well in that case...say, 26ga SS316L core (for the faster ramp up) but then use 36ga Nichrome 80 for the wrap wire and that should slow the heat build up enough to keep from getting too hot for you.


You're not drinking water are you?! You realize that stuff is found in antifreeze!?!
 

ScReWbALL

Silver Contributor
Member For 4 Years
28g wrapped with 32g kanthal on both. And then my spool of Clapton wire is 26g ss316l wrapped with 30g 316l

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32ga Kanthal wrap on one and 30ga SS316L on the other?? Uhhh, yeah, definitely the wrap wire slowing you down, like BK said. Hell, the only time I'd ever use 30ga is if it was the core wire...never for the wrap.


You're not drinking water are you?! You realize that stuff is found in antifreeze!?!
 

mach1ne

Gold Contributor
Member For 4 Years
these guys are right. if you have to buy wire instead of making your own, try to find at least 36g wrapped stuff. i know there are places making 38 and 40g stuff too.

its giving me a bit of pain in my chest right now thinking about 30g wrapped claptons :(
 
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bx10r

Platinum Contributor
Member For 4 Years
I use nichrome 80 while i learn. 2 core fused clapton 2x26/40
4 wrap for the tubes
10 wrap for the series
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Carambrda

Platinum Contributor
ECF Refugee
Member For 5 Years
You think Nichrome 80 ramps up faster than SS316L?


You're not drinking water are you?! You realize that stuff is found in antifreeze!?!
It does, and it cools down faster as well. I often use Kanthal A1 for my core wires to get a warmer vape, but use Nichrome80 instead of SS316L for my wrap wires to speed up the slow ramp up of the Kanthal, and speed it up more compared to how much I could speed it up by using SS316L. This method works excellent for me with fused claptons and staple staggered fused claptons... in fact Squidoode in his build tutorial (YouTube video) also uses Nichrome80 for his wrap wire to create his staple staggered fused clapton.

SS316L is more durable, and doesn't snap as easily─which can be a good thing especially if you're working with higher gauges. You know... stapled helix coil builds using like 48g for the wrap wire to fuse everything together and dry firing it with the Coil Master Ceramic Sticks because that's just how insanely delicate some of these builds are. (I didn't even know Ceramic Sticks existed... until I saw a picture posted by Wire Theory on Instagram.) SS316L also has its place in countless other builds, and for several many different reasons. So it's not a question of which metal type is better. Rather, it's a question of how are you going to use it.
 

strigamort

Bronze Contributor
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
I was under the impression that NiCh80 was faster than SS 316l. I have been using Kanthal cores with either of the other alloys for the same reason. To speed the ramp of the kanthal. I didn't think of it any other way. I'm really enjoying learning about the concepts and trying them out. :)

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Carambrda

Platinum Contributor
ECF Refugee
Member For 5 Years
I was under the impression that NiCh80 was faster than SS 316l. I have been using Kanthal cores with either of the other alloys for the same reason. To speed the ramp of the kanthal. I didn't think of it any other way. I'm really enjoying learning about the concepts and trying them out. :)

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Well on the mech, SS316L is faster because it has much lower resistance than Nichrome80 so then you get much more watts from SS316L. But the heat capacitance of SS316L is 4 J·cm³/K whereas that of Nicrhome80 is only 3.78 J·cm³/K so, because 1 J (Joule) is 1 watt applied for 1 second, you would need to apply 4 watts for 1 second to raise the temperature of 1 cubic centimeter (cm³) of SS316L by 1 K (Kelvin), vs only 3.78 watts for 1 second. Not exactly a huge difference, but anyway. lol
 

mikekscholz

Member For 4 Years
my favorite simple wrap is 2x 28g Kanthal cores wrapped in 36g nichrome... I feel like fused claptons give better flavor than single cores.
 

Synphul

Gold Contributor
Member For 4 Years
I tried a spool of premade half staggered fused clapton from fasttech to see if I'd like it. I didn't really. It was supposedly all ss316L but like most of the factory spooled stuff it was like 28ga cores with 32ga wrap.

Decided to try my hand at wrapping my own so got some 28g ss316L (have smaller spools of 26, 28 and 30ga to mess with) and 38ga ni80. Even my first build attempt came out a shitload better than the factory stuff. I used 3x 28ga ss316L and the 38ga ni80. Ramp up isn't a whole lot different than the 26 or 28ga ss316 twisted coils I made prior to that.

The bulky factory spooled stuff took forever and held the heat so long after I took a vape I could hear the juice sizzling and cooking for another 4-5s after letting off the fire button.
 

bmclaurin

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Well on the mech, SS316L is faster because it has much lower resistance than Nichrome80 so then you get much more watts from SS316L. But the heat capacitance of SS316L is 4 J·cm³/K whereas that of Nicrhome80 is only 3.78 J·cm³/K so, because 1 J (Joule) is 1 watt applied for 1 second, you would need to apply 4 watts for 1 second to raise the temperature of 1 cubic centimeter (cm³) of SS316L by 1 K (Kelvin), vs only 3.78 watts for 1 second. Not exactly a huge difference, but anyway. lol
+1 on all that.

I would only add that, as a wrap wire, we can ignore the electrical properties (resistivity, etc.) of the wrap material and focus solely on its thermal properties. And the slight advantage in heat capacitance of Nichrome 80 as compared to SS316L is mostly offset by the fact that Nichrome 80 has a slightly higher density than SS316L, such that the Nichrome 80 wrap wire would have slightly more mass than a SS316L wrap, all other factors being equal. Taken together, these factors essentially are a wash. As an example, a 38ga Nichrome 80 wrap wire measuring 1 meter in total length has a total heat capacity of about 29.8 mJ/K (note that *total heat capacity* already factors in the mass of the wire for the given coil), whereas that same wrap wire in SS316L has a total heat capacity of 32.1 mJ/K (a difference of less than 8%). So, in theory, *as a wrap wire* Nichrome 80 has a very slightly quicker ramp up than SS316L, but whether that would be noticeable in the real world is another matter.

Note that the discussion above is only when talking about a *wrap material* because when used as a core wire, we then have to consider the differing electrical properties of the materials. And the significant difference in resistivity of Ni80 versus SS316L considerably complicates the analysis, as Carambrda noted above.
 
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r055co

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Platinum Contributor
Member For 4 Years
28g cores are fine, use smaller wrapping gauge, no fatter than 36g. I would recommend 38g personally
 

Carambrda

Platinum Contributor
ECF Refugee
Member For 5 Years
+1 on all that.

I would only add that, as a wrap wire, we can ignore the electrical properties (resistivity, etc.) of the wrap material and focus solely on its thermal properties. And the slight advantage in heat capacitance of Nichrome 80 as compared to SS316L is mostly offset by the fact that Nichrome 80 has a slightly higher density than SS316L, such that the Nichrome 80 wrap wire would have slightly more mass than a SS316L wrap, all other factors being equal. Taken together, these factors essentially are a wash. As an example, a 38ga Nichrome 80 wrap wire measuring 1 meter in total length has a total heat capacity of about 29.8 mJ/K (note that *total heat capacity* already factors in the mass of the wire for the given coil), whereas that same wrap wire in SS316L has a total heat capacity of 32.1 mJ/K (a difference of less than 8%). So, in theory, *as a wrap wire* Nichrome 80 has a very slightly quicker ramp up than SS316L, but whether that would be noticeable in the real world is another matter.

Note that the discussion above is only when talking about a *wrap material* because when used as a core wire, we then have to consider the differing electrical properties of the materials. And the significant difference in resistivity of Ni80 versus SS316L considerably complicates the analysis, as Carambrda noted above.
Thermal conductivity also plays a part. During the ramp up of the coil the heat spreads from the parts of the wrap wire that are located closest to the core(s), into the parts that are located farthest from the core(s)... with Nichrome80 wrap wire this "spreading of the heat"─by means of thermal conduction─is slower compared to using SS316L wrap wire of the same gauge, and, as a result, Nichrome80 wrap wire the temperature in the area between the wrap wire and the core(s)─where all the juice pockets are─rises even faster still. lol :)
 

Fudgey Finger

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Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
If I turn up the power, it gets too hot and I get spitback. Any advice?

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Although the above advice has all been good, I disagree about not using bigger wrap wire than 36. Although it is a good guide, bigger gauges still work fine. I use 32/34 all the time for wrap wire, you just need to crank up the wattage a little. Since turning up the wattage is giving you spitback issues, I assume you are probably not wicking tight enough inside the coil. Try to get the cotton as tight inside the coil as you can while not making it so tight that you rip the cotton. If you are using an RTA though, you will most likely need to trim the ends of the wick so that you don't choke the juice ports. Also, if your coils aren't getting enough airflow that can cause spitback as well, especially at higher wattages.
 

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