What do you think about vendors using shills to promote their products?

[UncleRJ]

First of all, what is a shill?

SHILL

A person engaged in covert advertising. The shill attempts to spread buzz by personally endorsing the product in public forums with the pretense of sincerity, when in fact he is being paid for his services.
Who are you shilling for?

Ignore the n00b, he's just here to shill.
by strangedaze April 27, 2005

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=shill

As a VU moderator, I need to follow the rules (actually I have more rules to follow as a mod).

So if a VU Vendor is doing something that I find is distasteful, as long as they are not outright breaking the rules, my hands are tied.

But as a VU MEMBER, I can indeed voice my opinion.

Let me just point out that IMHO there is a certain overseas vendor that whenever they promote a new product in their own thread has an instant following posting how Beautiful, Stylish and Good Looking the product of the moment is.

While a high percentage of (Shill's) actual VU members (?) are either brand new or have been around for a bit but if you look at their history....how Beautiful, Stylish and Good Looking.....................

Sorry to say, the vendor in question seems to think we are all drooling idiots.

Do you really want to purchase from ANY company that uses these tactics?

Nuff Said

Unc


A

 

[SteveS45]

If I see a shill for a company they get a black mark but I have more of a problem with asshole reviewers who constantly say they do not get paid but have massive sell offs of all the gear they got for free that they made sure to say they do not get paid but sold over a Grand worth of shit last round. Not getting paid but selling not for resale equipment. FTS

 

[UncleRJ]

If I see a shill for a company they get a black mark but I have more of a problem with asshole reviewers who constantly say they do not get paid but have massive sell offs of all the gear they got for free that they made sure to say they do not get paid but sold over a Grand worth of shit last round. Not getting paid but selling not for resale equipment. FTS

I tend to agree with all the above.

But, IMHO a company that employs Shills should get the biggest and blackest mark of all!

 

[Time]

But, IMHO a company that employs Shills should get the biggest and blackest mark of all!

Black mark for the company, yes. But I'd like to give the shill a black eye too.

 

[hellcatrydr]

Where can I get one of these high paying shill jobs?

 

[Chum]

I would not put it past a Vendor paying someone to "badmouth" other Vendor's products as well...

 

[JuicyLucy]

I have been offered free gear in exchange for shilling - and thought about it.

Wow, save $20-$30 and lose my reputation? Forget it

But what a cheap way for the vendor, manufacturer, whatever, to advertise. Shit that cost them pennies, a few bucks shipping and watch the sales roll in

Can't blame them for trying, but shame on anybody going around pimping the shit without saying "hey look, So and So sent me a free whatever - ain't it grand?"

 

[Synphul]

It's the modern day of snake oil sales unfortunately. Not much different than when salesmen in the old days had a plant or two hyping their products. It gets old though. It's gotten that way with 'customer reviews' as well on a ton of sites, vape related or not. To the point 'customer' review sections are pretty much pointless when the first 50-100 are paid or discounted to the reviewer.

I'm pretty much against advertising in general. I know it serves a purpose, it will never go away.. I'm just sick of it. Our entire digital/media lives are one big advertisement after another and somewhere in between ads real life manages to sneak in. Go to a website, there's advertising at the top, at the bottom, in between posts on many forums, on the sides, there's popups and god forbid you use an adblocker they pop up a huge full page banner bitching. Damn right I run adblockers, they're in my face constantly.

Cabs, the back of cars labeled with the dealer, sides of buses, scrolling on digital marquees, sides of buildings, billboards. You can't hardly use an app on a phone without ads popping up all over the place to the point you can't even see the damn screen and the 'X' is so tiny 95% of the time you're bound to click the ad instead of the X. Tried to watch the world series, holy hell. Ads running around the stadium, regular commercials every time the game broke off for 3min to change pitchers or something. Then if that wasn't bad enough there were mini ads literally 5sec long that got shown on the side of the screen like picture in picture if the batter so much as stepped out of the box to scratch his ass.

Not sure who they're targeting, maybe I'm just crotchety. It pisses me off to the point I use ads to decide which products I refuse to purchase. Vape stuff is no different, I appreciate learning about new products but in the end I'll watch a review or two of stuff I'm interested in. Too much of it is garbage to just purchase blind every time something new is released. If it's truly a good product, most people will go searching for it rather than needing it shoved in their face. Everyone's got an 'angle' most of the time and I just don't have room for it in my life so I skip it, ignore it, skip it on dvr, adblock it.. because the option to shove it up their ass where it belongs doesn't exist. Yet. lol (one can hope right?)

 

[bobnat]

Yes, they are fucking annoying. However, we don't have to read their posts and we can block them, to a degree. And we can call them names if we wish.

True freedom of speech is the ability to say no without being penalized for it. It manifests itself in many ways, but one way is saying and/or writing things that people don't like or find offensive. We have the freedom to ignore this shit, so we should exercise it.

 

[Canadian Vaper]

Over on the Reddits I follow we call them out like all the time.. They get massive down votes and have to delete their account. I actually had one juice vendor try to buy my reddit account because I have decent Karma..

 

[Polargirl]

The only thing worse than a vendor using shills is when an entire Bulletin Board website is effectively a shill operation. I take it this problem with other vaping forum websites is at least in part why VU exists if not wholly the source of the reasons.

 

[Time]

Where can I get one of these high paying shill jobs?

Shilling is a low pay job in the marketing realm. Being a shill is like being a street corner hooker in a drug infested 'hood. Most vaping forum shills are even lower than that. They're more like a crack whore, working for a taste of the merchandise.

The high paying marketing jobs are in legit advertising. They're still fucking people for money but like the high end "escort", people tend to look the other way,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,unless you get caught with one.

 

[skt239]

Lots of shilling abound lately so my ignore list gets longer each day.

 

[SteveS45]

Now getting shills for reviewers and that pisses me off even more!

 

[Mattp169]

i am so glad some one is bringing to light this black mark on our community
I cant stand the threads, I call them out and nothing is done
It loos like this type of behaviour is endorsed by the owners and mods, but I know it isnt, its just there is no proof and no actual rule exists that was broken
And this isnt about someone out right saying "company abc sent me this to review" thats not what we are talking about here.

Since no rule is broken...then we need a new rule
or the shill accts should have their own very special "I AM A SHILL" BADGE
it is just common sense looking at those threads and seeing the pattern going on and looking at post counts and join dates
someone is fucking with the forum and using it for their own bullshitery as uncle Rj put it
I fear either old accts were bought or hacked, or worse yet they are all owned by some nefarious SEO type company and have been in use in the contest threads to manipulate the contests run her eon the forum

 

[SteveS45]

"I AM A SHILL" BADGE

Or maybe a self proclaimed expert badge?

 

[AndriaD]

I've been engaged in a thread recently which started out with a video and positive review of a product, an RTA which claims to be a MtL atty... I'm interested in those, since I like a very tight draw, so I started asking questions about the draw, and remarked that I liked the draw of the Berserker. The OP responded that he liked it "wide open" but yes the RTA could be adjusted "very tight", and then that he "hated the Berserker." I responded to that, that if he liked it wide open, then he really wasn't a very good judge of what "very tight" really meant... and what exactly did he hate about the Berserker? His response? "It's too tight." Well hell. That "too tight" is the ONLY thing I really like about the Berserker!

I have to think that's a shill, and also, completely ignorant, and completely disregarding the views of those whom he is ostensibly trying to sucker into buying the thing. So, I really doubt I'll buy it.

Andria

 

[Mattp169]

I've been engaged in a thread recently which started out with a video and positive review of a product, an RTA which claims to be a MtL atty... I'm interested in those, since I like a very tight draw, so I started asking questions about the draw, and remarked that I liked the draw of the Berserker. The OP responded that he liked it "wide open" but yes the RTA could be adjusted "very tight", and then that he "hated the Berserker." I responded to that, that if he liked it wide open, then he really wasn't a very good judge of what "very tight" really meant... and what exactly did he hate about the Berserker? His response? "It's too tight." Well hell. That "too tight" is the ONLY thing I really like about the Berserker!

I have to think that's a shill, and also, completely ignorant, and completely disregarding the views of those whom he is ostensibly trying to sucker into buying the thing. So, I really doubt I'll buy it.

Andria

its next to impossible to get information that we really need from anyone any more. Ive been trying to get enough info to makean eductaed decision on my next step in vaping..which is less clouds with flavor. but everyone is so different in their preferences and experiences its hard to find someone else who can relate to what you think and know that can help anymore.

people shilling for a company or their own youtube channels make sit even worse

 

[SteveS45]

its next to impossible to get information that we really need from anyone any more. Ive been trying to get enough info to makean eductaed decision on my next step in vaping..which is less clouds with flavor. but everyone is so different in their preferences and experiences its hard to find someone else who can relate to what you think and know that can help anymore.
people shilling for a company or their own youtube channels make sit even worse

Well said!

 

[SteveS45]

Another thing I am seeing lately is basically new or Non-Vapers who are spewing a line of shit promoting reviewers and knocking companies but have only been on the forums a short time. Now sure a new member could have lots of knowledge but so far none have proved it with some of the posts. Again this is only my opinion and everyone has one you know!

 

[AndriaD]

its next to impossible to get information that we really need from anyone any more. Ive been trying to get enough info to makean eductaed decision on my next step in vaping..which is less clouds with flavor. but everyone is so different in their preferences and experiences its hard to find someone else who can relate to what you think and know that can help anymore.

people shilling for a company or their own youtube channels make sit even worse

I agree. One way it could be addressed is, a) if you like "wide open" airflow, then ONLY review those attys which offer that, and DON'T review "MtL" attys, since you really don't have a clue what tight draw really means, and conversely... b) if you do review MtL attys, make sure that MtL is what you actually like, use, and appreciate, since only the users of that form can say with any authority if a draw is 1) really tight, 2) kinda tight, 3) borderline tight, or 4) way too airy.

For a vaper who likes "wide open" to say that an atty can be closed down really tight.... well, I can't even remember the number of attys I've bought which I was assured could be closed down "really tight," which actually vaped like an empty straw. No atty can do both -- either it's a wide open atty and good for those who like that, or it's a tight draw MtL atty, which wouldn't suit DtL vapers at all, but might suit MtL vapers very well.

And I'd really appreciate it if mfr's could get a clue about this, and stop thinking they can make an atty that all vapers will like -- it's simply not possible; there's too much difference in how the attys should be constructed for each type of vaping.

Andria

 

[Polargirl]

What is needed is professional objective testers.

Thank goodness for Mooch on battery safety since that is the least thing of all that can rely on subjective opinions. Imagine the catastrophes if batteries had to be studied like mods and attys?

A true, unbiased, objective mod tester is needed as one for attys. There is no Mooch equivalent for mods. Phil had a great early history reviewing but is now in the business of making attys so that won't work.

Anthony does at least test many mods but does not explain his ranking methodology in his list. If he did that, maybe a credible crude list might be available. Even then, there are so many mods and attys Anthony hasn't tested. As it currently is, Anthony isn't much to go on but technically, it is a little more than others.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1c4MZ2xYBE-1-0A6rLYY46OHtzHCM-roJINpxghmhzXM/htmlview#

If the vaping community had at least one mod and atty equivalent to Mooch, it would be so much easier to fight back against shills but it doesn't. A solution might have to be a collaborative community wide effort among some sites that don't like each other. Although Phil cannot objectively be this person anymore, he might be able to lead this effort.

 

[SteveS45]

 

[SteveS45]

 

[Mattp169]

What is needed is professional objective testers.

Thank goodness for Mooch on battery safety since that is the least thing of all that can rely on subjective opinions. Imagine the catastrophes if batteries had to be studied like mods and attys?

A true, unbiased, objective mod tester is needed as one for attys. There is no Mooch equivalent for mods. Phil had a great early history reviewing but is now in the business of making attys so that won't work.

Anthony does at least test many mods but does not explain his ranking methodology in his list. If he did that, maybe a credible crude list might be available. Even then, there are so many mods and attys Anthony hasn't tested. As it currently is, Anthony isn't much to go on but technically, it is a little more than others.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1c4MZ2xYBE-1-0A6rLYY46OHtzHCM-roJINpxghmhzXM/htmlview#

If the vaping community had at least one mod and atty equivalent to Mooch, it would be so much easier to fight back against shills but it doesn't. A solution might have to be a collaborative community wide effort among some sites that don't like each other. Although Phil cannot objectively be this person anymore, he might be able to lead this effort.

this is nearly impossible since most of this is subjective\what one person calls a tight draw is too airy for others. mods get tested a bit but since every mod is basically the same as the next at this point and the real difference ins longevity imho and it takes months to years of regular use to quantify that.

 

[SteveS45]

his is nearly impossible since most of this is subjective\what one person calls a tight draw is too airy for others. mods get tested a bit but since every mod is basically the same as the next at this point and the real difference ins longevity imho and it takes months to years of regular use to quantify that.

And you need to actually be a person who vapes to offer your opinion. At least in my opinion.

 

[Polargirl]

this is nearly impossible since most of this is subjective\what one person calls a tight draw is too airy for others. mods get tested a bit but since every mod is basically the same as the next at this point and the real difference ins longevity imho and it takes months to years of regular use to quantify that.

this is nearly impossible since most of this is subjective\what one person calls a tight draw is too airy for others. mods get tested a bit but since every mod is basically the same as the next at this point and the real difference ins longevity imho and it takes months to years of regular use to quantify that.

How much air goes through a hole is potentially an objective question of pneumatic measurements and measuring devices. Just because no one tests objectively like that doesn't mean it can't be done.

No, all mods aren't anywhere near the same even based on immediate results tests.

 

[The Cromwell]

Over on the Reddits I follow we call them out like all the time.. They get massive down votes and have to delete their account. I actually had one juice vendor try to buy my reddit account because I have decent Karma..

Hmm Shills on Redit seem to downvote those who speak ill of their shilled product too.

 

[The Cromwell]

We need a standardized vape bot machine.
would inhale based on average human lung capacity, etc and at an average rate.
And measure temperature of vapor and density of vapor.
A spectrometer measurement could be done for flavor density?

 

[SteveS45]

How can someone with no vaping experience of their own try to offer opinions? Based on what is read on the Internet? WTF?

 

[Polargirl]

We need a standardized vape bot machine.
would inhale based on average human lung capacity, etc and at an average rate.
And measure temperature of vapor and density of vapor.
A spectrometer measurement could be done for flavor density?

I don't know about that exactly (could very well be) but it is certainly on the right track when I mentioned objective testing measurements in my last post.

 

[The Cromwell]

I don't know about that exactly (could very well be) but it is certainly on the right track when I mentioned objective testing measurements in my last post.

Until there are testing standards for vaping equipment then it is all just confusion.
Which is how most manufacturers like it.

In confusion there is opportunity for profit.

 

[Mattp169]

yeah becaise marlboros burn 10 degrees hotter then camels but salem filters have the lowest measurement on the rockwell scale

 

[Polargirl]

Until there are testing standards for vaping equipment then it is all just confusion.
Which is how most manufacturers like it.

In confusion there is opportunity for profit.

Which is why I made my suggestion calling for a credible tester. The status quo is insufficient and a huge disservice to the vaping community.

 

[The Cromwell]

Which is why I made my suggestion calling for a credible tester. The status quo is insufficient and a huge disservice to the vaping community.

There is no credible testing until a testing standard is agreed upon.

There can be credibility about bad fitting parts, bad finish, etc but on performance? All just subjective at this point.

 

[SteveS45]

 

[SteveS45]

 

[SteveS45]

There is no credible testing until a testing standard is agreed upon.
There can be credibility about bad fitting parts, bad finish, etc but on performance? All just subjective at this point.

You might as well be talking to an FDA employee who never vaped an ML.................

 

[Polargirl]

There is no credible testing until a testing standard is agreed upon.

There can be credibility about bad fitting parts, bad finish, etc but on performance? All just subjective at this point.

Right now, devices performing closer to as advertised is still a usable standard unfortunately. Take TC for example. Most mods that claim to do it cannot at all and others are way off on their temperature readings when they can be slightly usable. Some mods are fairly accurate from what I read.

This is why I wish Anthony published his ranking methodology. If it were remotely based on say relative TC accuracy, that would help.

 

[SteveS45]

Can't publish fabricated or plagiarized data! What do you base you opinions of how TC works on? Oh right what you read on the Internet!

 

[Polargirl]

Can't publish fabricated or plagiarized data! What do you base you opinions of how TC works on? Oh right what you read on the Internet!

And you physically test your mods' TC performance? Great! Please post the results. I'd love to see objective comparison data. Thank you for contributing to the community's knowledge base.

 

[SteveS45]

Oh please enough of your Bullshit already you admittedly don't even vape! At least I can switch between 6 different setups in seconds and disprove some of the claims these reviewers make with First Hand personal experience. Don't try to act like yo know because you do not even know what it is like to blow a fucking cloud~!

 

[JuicyLucy]

Until there are testing standards for vaping equipment then it is all just confusion.
Which is how most manufacturers like it.

In confusion there is opportunity for profit.

Someone needs to call Consumer Reports

 

[SteveS45]

 

[JuicyLucy]

View attachment 96339

An actual photo of Steve

 

[SteveS45]

 

[skt239]

Can we stop with the meme bombing? None of them are funny. There, I said it.

 

[SteveS45]

Just for you @JuicyLucy

 

[SteveS45]

Can we stop with the meme bombing? None of them are funny. There, I said it.

Fuck that we have a shill for a reviewer bombing the shill thread with a reviewers name................

 

[JuicyLucy]

This is too easy