What happens to E-Liquid at High Temps

[doughdreads]

So I was trying to find some information about what happens to e-liquids when they are vaped at high wattages/tempuratures. I think I heard from a pbusardo video that research was being conducted because it was believed that at higher wattages the e-liquids were found to have higher levels of formaldehyde and the like. I believe this research started when all these high wattage devices started coming out of China; I'm just a little curious. Does anyone know where I can find any information on this, I haven't been able to find anything.

 

[galsvapetoo]

It turns into a nuclear bomb

 

[doughdreads]

Cool...

 

[zaroba]

High wattage doesn't necessarily mean high temp.

And the way I see it, so what if it does have higher levels of whatever chemical. The e-liquid is *still* has less then cigs do, not to mention not having all the other chemicals. Plus, formaldyhide is a natural product found in nature and is used in everything around us in our daily lives.

It's used in Glues commonly used in flooring, furniture, stairs, cabinets, etc.
It's used in many components of vehicle engines and transmissions.
It's commonly used in makeup, paints, stains, resins, and inks.
It's used in clothing to help bind dyes to the fabric and to prevent it from wrinkling easily.
Formaldehyde byproducts are also used in common drugs. Like the plastic capsules filled with powder, the capsule contains formaldyhide. Byproducts are also used to treat several common infections that people develop.
Formaldehyde is also used to make many different plastics, including those used for artificial limbs and implants for people.

The human body produces and uses formaldehyde as part of the metabolic process of citric foods and juices, vegetables, or fermented beverages.
Formaldehyde does not accumulate in the environment because it gets broken down by sunlight and bacteria within a few hours, nor does it accumulate in the human body because because it gets metabolized quickly.
Studies in rats, monkeys , and humans show that inhaled formaldehyde does not change the levels of formaldehyde normally present in the blood.

Yes ,it is a known carcinogen, but for this to apply you'd need to be exposed to massive amounts of it such as in an industrial application that involves producing, handling, or breathing in the vapors from it over a period of several years.



Sources:
http://www.harpocratesspeaks.com/2012/04/demystifying-vaccine-ingredients.html
http://www.inchem.org/documents/hsg/hsg/hsg057.htm
http://www.americanchemistry.com/Pr...-about-the-Health-Effects-of-Formaldehyde.PDF
http://ntp.niehs.nih.gov/ntp/roc/twelfth/2009/november/formaldehyde_bd_final.pdf
http://www.formaldehydefacts.org/

 

[Smoky Blue]

So I was trying to find some information about what happens to e-liquids when they are vaped at high wattages/tempuratures. I think I heard from a pbusardo video that research was being conducted because it was believed that at higher wattages the e-liquids were found to have higher levels of formaldehyde and the like. I believe this research started when all these high wattage devices started coming out of China; I'm just a little curious. Does anyone know where I can find any information on this, I haven't been able to find anything.

i think what you saw was about looking for funding for the research project..
i haven't heard that the project has started yet.. but i am looking too

 

[doughdreads]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a watt the unit of measure for the rate at which energy (heat) is transferred? So yes, high wattage doesn't necessarily mean high temperatures, but in the application of vaping, I think it does (with resistance factored in). (And I mean with incandescent light bulbs the higher the wattage, the more heat that bulb is going produce, so..) There would be no point in vaping at higher wattage if it didn't vaporize the liquids faster and hotter to create a denser, hotter vape. The point of me asking was to merely find info about the research project as @Smoky Blue mentioned. I'm not trying to say that vaping is worse than smoking in any way as far as we know now, but with people vaping at higher and higher watts there is no telling if the chemical composition of e-liquids is changing. It is true that the safest way to vape is to not vape; but knowledge is power. The more research is done, the more we know, the more we can advocate it.

 

[Number3124]

Really, I think there's another factor that has to be taken into account here: air flow. Something those old tanks used in the stories have terrible airflow. If you put one of those old top-coil relics they used in that study on a God Mod, for example, and cranked it all the way up you'd melt the fucking tank. Now, if you made a super-sub ohm build and put it in... say a Mutation X with the AFC all the way open, it would taste good. It would make a huge, warm cloud.

This is because you're pulling enough air in to keep that 220w from melting the coils and burning the wick. Even at 12w (what the 5v that test used produced on the 2.1ohm coil) you're still burning your juice. No one vapes like that. No one turns up their mod to the point that it makes their juice taste burnt. If you aren't burning your juice there's no more formaldehyde than in the air you breath when you're driving your car.

 

[Warhawk-AVG]

The sugars in e-juice at higher than vaping temps...heck even at regular vaping temps caramelize

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caramelization

more or less turns into a hard brown crust (think peanut brittle) clogging the coils...resulting in higher and higher wire temps which leads to actual burning of the juice...

This is why you try to rinse out the coils with as hot a water as you can stand (or e to break up that goop after each tank (if you can)...they will still eventually goop completely up but rinsing them washes away some of the thicker yet still soft enough to re-melt at hot water temps...

P.S. Vaping at crazy high wattages causes the above image to happen faster than lower watts, and using thick juices or overly sweet juices

I vape all my bottom coil kanger protank II style tanks at 6.5watts...coils usually last me at least a week or two (sometimes longer if I rinse them really good)...and I vape some SWEET juices

 

[The Vape Space]

Farsalinos has raised over $70,000 to investigate whether or not Formaldehyde, acetyldehyde, acrolein, and a skew of other potential worries are present in 'vape-able' conditions in high wattage devices. I would think that they are underway at the moment, but will take some time because he is going to be thorough with that cash.

 

[anendeloflorien]

F

Really, I think there's another factor that has to be taken into account here: air flow. Something those old tanks used in the stories have terrible airflow. If you put one of those old top-coil relics they used in that study on a God Mod, for example, and cranked it all the way up you'd melt the fucking tank. Now, if you made a super-sub ohm build and put it in... say a Mutation X with the AFC all the way open, it would taste good. It would make a huge, warm cloud.

This is because you're pulling enough air in to keep that 220w from melting the coils and burning the wick. Even at 12w (what the 5v that test used produced on the 2.1ohm coil) you're still burning your juice. No one vapes like that. No one turns up their mod to the point that it makes their juice taste burnt. If you aren't burning your juice there's no more formaldehyde than in the air you breath when you're driving your car.

Funny, I'm sitting here reading this vaping on my work setup - protank 3 with my own rebuilt 2.0 ohm coil vaping it at 11W/4.7V. I've got the v3 airflow control wide open so the coil stays cool and I wicked it with cellucotton so it keeps up with the hot coil. I get no dry hits and no burnt taste just nice tasty clouds.

 

[Number3124]

F


Funny, I'm sitting here reading this vaping on my work setup - protank 3 with my own rebuilt 2.0 ohm coil vaping it at 11W/4.7V. I've got the v3 airflow control wide open so the coil stays cool and I wicked it with cellucotton so it keeps up with the hot coil. I get no dry hits and no burnt taste just nice tasty clouds.

That's awesome. Point is that you can do that without it tasting burnt.

 

[CloudyToday]

So I was trying to find some information about what happens to e-liquids when they are vaped at high wattages/tempuratures. I think I heard from a pbusardo video that research was being conducted because it was believed that at higher wattages the e-liquids were found to have higher levels of formaldehyde and the like. I believe this research started when all these high wattage devices started coming out of China; I'm just a little curious. Does anyone know where I can find any information on this, I haven't been able to find anything.

Hoping this info helps, someone shared this with me when I had the ????? floating above my head http://ecigarette-research.com/research/index.php

 

[anendeloflorien]

That's awesome. Point is that you can do that without it tasting burnt.

Oh yeah, that's what I was trying to get at, just reread my post and it could have been clearer. The studies where they are finding formaldehyde in the vapor are using those devices in ways that they were never meant to be used and which NOBODY would actually use them in real life. It has to taste terrible - anyone who's ever gotten a dry hit knows that you would never actually keep vaping with a taste like that. There are ways to set up your equipment properly so that you can vape at higher temperatures safely though! Just gotta know your gear.

 

[Number3124]

Oh yeah, that's what I was trying to get at, just reread my post and it could have been clearer. The studies where they are finding formaldehyde in the vapor are using those devices in ways that they were never meant to be used and which NOBODY would actually use them in real life. It has to taste terrible - anyone who's ever gotten a dry hit knows that you would never actually keep vaping with a taste like that. There are ways to set up your equipment properly so that you can vape at higher temperatures safely though! Just gotta know your gear.

Exactly. There was a video by Suck My Mod where Matt recreates the experiment (granted he has the CE5 instead of the CE4). It tasted terrible and burnt his tongue and throat. No one would keep their CE at 6 volts.

 

[doughdreads]

Hoping this info helps, someone shared this with me when I had the ????? floating above my head http://ecigarette-research.com/research/index.php

Thanks for the link! @Number3124 I saw that Suck My Mod video too. I just wonder how hard it would be to do the research and run the test. I want to know what goes into testing for the aldehydes; I think that having actual vapers running the tests would be more beneficial to vaping as a whole. Having a larger test group with people using a wider range of VV/VW devices and atomizers you could get a more accurate result over a wider spectrum. Are there any vapers out there that have actually done testing or is it always just done by nonusers in a lab that have no clue how people actually use these devices? With proper research and testing we can get the facts straight and remove this stigma from vaping.

 

[CloudyToday]

Thanks for the link! @Number3124 I saw that Suck My Mod video too. I just wonder how hard it would be to do the research and run the test. I want to know what goes into testing for the aldehydes; I think that having actual vapers running the tests would be more beneficial to vaping as a whole. Having a larger test group with people using a wider range of VV/VW devices and atomizers you could get a more accurate result over a wider spectrum. Are there any vapers out there that have actually done testing or is it always just done by nonusers in a lab that have no clue how people actually use these devices? With proper research and testing we can get the facts straight and remove this stigma from vaping.

np, happy to help when I can sounds like you may have found yourself a little project too, gather some local vapers, set up some parameters, maybe a local sci-guy can help and see what the results are

 

[Haadkoe]

I wonder what results they would have gotten with that test which indicated the presence of formaldehyde had they not added any eliquid at all to that clearo.

In other words, was it the liquid which created the formaldehyde, or the carto incinerating from being overtaxed which created the formaldehyde? You'd think a scientific study would factor such things into the equation, but apparently the scientific method ain't what it used to be.

 

[CDub]

It still baffles me how against vaping these groups and legislators are. WTF.

 

[Cloudboss]

I do not think it will get hot enough on a fresh coil. on older coils (say week and a half or more ) it starts to build up and burn. there has been plenty of times when i have took a hit on the mod and got a burnt popcorn like taste..... either way it cant be worse than cigs