When to charge

[pippin65]

I have a battery level on my eleaf tc100w but no multimeter. Was wondering what the best practice in this situation is. Can I run down my 18650 vtc4's or should I just put them in my xtar wps charger each night even if they are half drained? Alsocu have two pairs of vtc4's. Should I Mark them so each set is a pair or is mix match permissible? Thanks

 

[freemind]

Each set of batteries should be married (A1 A2 B1 B2 etc) and only be used in matched pairs.
Charging them before they are low will not hurt them.

 

[JERUS]

IIRC you want to charge at like 25% or something, running them completely down puts extra stress on the batteries. And yes, as freemind said, always marry. I just grab a sharpie and mark them, Letter to code the type then a number for the pairing set(eg. S4 is my 4th pair of 25rs).

 

[AmandaD]

I let my batteries run down as far as the mod allows (regulated only), unless I'm going to bed, and then I charge them. The cut off is always above what would be harmful to the battery longevity! Some of mine cut off at 3.6, some at 3.2 - either way it's all good

 

[AndriaD]

Never, ever, charge batteries unattended -- like when you're asleep.

Andria

 

[AmandaD]

Never, ever, charge batteries unattended -- like when you're asleep.

Andria

I do it all the time.... While recognizing it's not recommended, if I didn't my batteries would never be charged! I do have a good battery charger of course.

 

[AndriaD]

I do it all the time.... While recognizing it's not recommended, if I didn't my batteries would never be charged! I do have a good battery charger of course.

I just rotate my mods/batteries, so one or two can be charging while I'm using a couple others. I was once awakened by smoke in my bedroom, which turned out to be a wire arcing in the wall against a 2x4... in a mobile home. I'd really like to never be awakened that way again, and I bet the rest of you would like to not ever be awakened that way either. Going from sound asleep to warp speed is really not fun.

Andria

 

[The Cromwell]

Batteries must always be paired when used in a 2 battery or more mod.
use together and charge together.
If batteries of very different age characteristics are used together bad things can happen like booms and such.

 

[The Cromwell]

I always charge my batteries under the covers at the foot of my bed. Keeps my feet warm

 

[OBDave]

I'm a fan of starting with new pairs of batteries and keeping them married throughout their lifespan. And charging before the cells get so low they won't fire any more is actually recommended - if you charge at around 50% you're supposed to get about 300 charge cycles out of your batteries before they start showing serious performance loss. That said, I often fire mine until they're dead (in a regulated device, in a mech I'd never let them drop below 3.6v) - the mod will stop firing before you damage your cells, but I find I only get about 150 charges out of my batteries instead of the advertised 300 because I'm hard on them.

 

[smacksy]

Hell I charge my batts when I'm asleep, or awake.. ...with 5 dual batt and two 3 batt mods I'm charging batts almost evey night, all night, on two 4 bay chargers... but I do have top-of-the-line chargers that plugs into a separate saftey breaker in my wall outlet... And a good smoke alarm sits above my charging station.. Been doing it this way long time...

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

 

[The Cromwell]

I almost always charge my batteries while sleeping.
I do not actually use them for foot warmers though.
I do charge them on top of a metal filing cabinet.
I also use a 7.95 Trustfire dual bay charger. Worked fine for most of a year so far.

 

[JERUS]

I'm a fan of starting with new pairs of batteries and keeping them married throughout their lifespan. And charging before the cells get so low they won't fire any more is actually recommended - if you charge at around 50% you're supposed to get about 300 charge cycles out of your batteries before they start showing serious performance loss. That said, I often fire mine until they're dead (in a regulated device, in a mech I'd never let them drop below 3.6v) - the mod will stop firing before you damage your cells, but I find I only get about 150 charges out of my batteries instead of the advertised 300 because I'm hard on them.

This is what I was alluding to earlier, not a danger risk but just lowering the lifespan overall. IIRC it was best to charge them at 3.5v which for me is ~25%. So I'll usually vape on it throughout the workday then swap it out when I get home (usually 30-50%) then vape on the other set for the evening and in the morning I'm swapping at 30-50% again.

 

[mikeyboy74]

Some battery questions here:

- I know only matched batteries can be used together in a mod, but how similar do they need to be when together in the same charger? Can we charge, say, a Samsung 25R and an LG HG2 together in an Efest LUC? What if they are both HG2's, but one is starting at 4.0 and the other at 3.6, is that safe? Looks like this charger is smart enough to stop charging when at a full 4.2, Should I let them get down to a certain level before charging? When one is full but the other still charging, should the full one be removed?

- Just put 2 virgin Samsung 25R's (not bought together but similar dates and never used) into a brand new Cuboid. A few hours later, vaping with a brand new Herakles Plus on top, the mod shows full on the left side and about 3/4 full on the right. What's up with that? Normal, or issue with battery(s) or the mod? When watching YouTube videos with Cuboid in use, I have noticed that one side can show quite a bit higher charge than the other. I don't have any other mods that show anything other than the total for the 2, 3 (rx200), or single (iStick 40, lipo) battery.

- How much wrapper imperfection is unsafe? As much as I like the HG2's, I find it's very easy to damage the wrappers coming out of either the charger or the mod. I have removed 5 of these from service, until I can get a few opinions that these are still safe, or need to disposed. They are about 3-6 month old, and operating fine (I assume there would be indications when they are no longer good, but not sure how I'd know).

Thanks,
Mike

 

[AndriaD]

- I know only matched batteries can be used together in a mod, but how similar do they need to be when together in the same charger? Can we charge, say, a Samsung 25R and an LG HG2 together in an Efest LUC? What if they are both HG2's, but one is starting at 4.0 and the other at 3.6, is that safe? Looks like this charger is smart enough to stop charging when at a full 4.2, Should I let them get down to a certain level before charging? When one is full but the other still charging, should the full one be removed?

This morning I charged a newish Samsung 25R and an old Efest 18650 (a 5A battery I think) at the same time in my Efest Luc 2. I saw no problems whatsoever. The old Efest was less discharged, so it finished charging first. Yes, I always remove batteries from the charger just as soon as they're finished. I left the 25R till it finished, then took it out right away.

- How much wrapper imperfection is unsafe? As much as I like the HG2's, I find it's very easy to damage the wrappers coming out of either the charger or the mod. I have removed 5 of these from service, until I can get a few opinions that these are still safe, or need to disposed. They are about 3-6 month old, and operating fine (I assume there would be indications when they are no longer good, but not sure how I'd know).

I think you are not supposed to let them get below 3.2v before charging, and I think most regulated mods will stop working at all, when the battery gets that low; with some it may even stop at 3.3v. For myself, I don't think I've ever let a battery get below 3.4v before charging, and I generally tend to recharge when they're around 3.6-3.7v. It will not harm them at all to not let them go all the way down, in fact I'v heard that it's actually better for them, they don't get overstressed.

As for damaged wrappers... I've had a couple of those; I think the tears and suchlike damage at the positive pole are more dangerous than other types of damage, but I think that any tear that leaves metal exposed has the immediate potential to short out, and should not be used. If no metal is showing, then it's kind of a situation for discretion -- how bad is the tear and/or damage? Will using it more cause it to get worse? Right now I have a 25R which is fairly new, on which the plastic wrapping is scored lengthwise, but no metal is showing -- I did use it that way for a while, but now that I have 2 more good batteries (LG HE2s) I've taken the scored one out of rotation until I can re-wrap it. It's fairly new, so it's worth doing; with another I had that had some damage to the wrapper at the positive pole, it was kind of old so I just recycled it and got another.

I also once had an 18650 that was in a mod that I had dropped; it was a flat top battery, and apparently in the fall, something dented the top cap, that flat top, so it looked concave rather than flat. I recycled it immediately and got another.

Andria

 

[The Cromwell]

2 batteries in series will discharge according to their individual characteristics. Not according to which position they are in.

 

[Oracle]

This morning I charged a newish Samsung 25R and an old Efest 18650 (a 5A battery I think) at the same time in my Efest Luc 2. I saw no problems whatsoever. The old Efest was less discharged, so it finished charging first. Yes, I always remove batteries from the charger just as soon as they're finished. I left the 25R till it finished, then took it out right away.

I wont do it like this. Although the batteries will work well at the first, it shorten the life of these batteries. You could have charged them 500 times, then it will decrease to 200 times when you do it like that. Why not protect your batteries at the daily life?

Never, ever, charge batteries unattended -- like when you're asleep.

It is really a good habit, however, most time I cannot follow it.

 

[AndriaD]

I wont do it like this. Although the batteries will work well at the first, it shorten the life of these batteries. You could have charged them 500 times, then it will decrease to 200 times when you do it like that. Why not protect your batteries at the daily life?

I have no idea where you got that info, but really, the charger is smart enough to figure out when a battery is charged -- it has a display which tells me, and the flashing doohickey has stopped flashing (which lets me know that the battery is charged, because clearly the device knows it too) and then I take the battery out. There is no damage.

It is really a good habit, however, most time I cannot follow it.

And you're lecturing me about silliness, while being completely at risk for burning your house down while you sleep?

Andria

 

[Oracle]

Oh, I haven't said that. It is really a good habit and I am trying to change my way of charging while sometimes i still forget it.

I have no idea where you got that info, but really, the charger is smart enough to figure out when a battery is charged -- it has a display which tells me, and the flashing doohickey has stopped flashing (which lets me know that the battery is charged, because clearly the device knows it too) and then I take the battery out. There is no damage.

I am sorry, maybe i made a mistake. Thanks for your information.

 

[Trueman ecig Yilia]

I always charge my batteries under the covers at the foot of my bed. Keeps my feet warm

 

[thermo289]

Lots of info here but I don't hear about charge rates. I have a rx200 two sets of battery's for it. I will note I get a battery weak inductor when battery's are ave 3.58v. Please note I say ave! Two battery's are almost always above 3.6 and one is bombing at 3.54ish. I try to get them on the charge asap because I believe letting a dead battery sit dead is the worst thing you can do(aside from blowing it up from overcharge).

Like I said at first no ones talking about charge rates. 99% of the time I charge at 0.5 amp. I also believe slow charging can help make them last longer.

 

[Robert B]

IMO, battery "marriage" is bunk. Just use identical model batts of roughly the same age/cycles.

This word Marriage gives people an incorrect impression that the 2 batts have always had
identical charge and drain cycles. But even when 'married", that's just not so.

According to Mooch, you are absolutely correct. Battery marriage is a bunch of horse manure.. Mooch says, as long as they are the same type battery, such as a pair of 25r's for example, the difference of 50 or 100 cycles doesn't matter one bit.

 

[Robert B]

Who's Mooch?
Hmmm, he's making sense... Burn him! He's a witch!!! He's Anti-Safety!!! What about the children??!!??

[/poke]

Battery "marriage" was a rumor... gossip based on absolutely zero research... zero proof of benefit...
and most importantly, no proof that marriage is even possible given the fact that
the 2 batts in all dual batt mods drain at different rates.
(I believe the new Yihi mod is the first mod with battery 'Drain Equalization')

OTOH, some of the more experienced people here do it and recommend it.

Is there an article somewhere... are there numbers/testing?

@Mooch the battery divorce lawyer. Just Call Mooch Dial 1-800- DIVORCE

 

[AmandaD]

Actually, not exactly according to his post here (about half way down): https://www.reddit.com/r/electronic_cigarette/comments/401qcl/lets_talk_about_marrying_batteries/

 

[The Cromwell]

In a series circiut the current is the same in all the batteries. Yes batteries in series will often drain at different rates due to slight internal differences in most batteries. Same in lipo paks.

 

[Robert B]

Actually, not exactly according to his post here (about half way down): https://www.reddit.com/r/electronic_cigarette/comments/401qcl/lets_talk_about_marrying_batteries/

He was being interviewed by the vapes of hazard guys, or whatever they call themselves. I pretty much quoted exactly what he said. The video is on youtube.

The answer he gives on reddit confirms battery marriage is overblown, but basically says he recommends it to keep the idiots at bay and cover his ass

 

[vap3r]

...no ones talking about charge rates.

Maximum recommended rate is typically ≤ 1C (total maH/1000) though I will waver if the technical specifications for a cell indicates otherwise. If desiring to charge at 1C, it becomes important to consider the condition of said cell(s) in an effort to determine actual C ratings. If I am not using a bay charger, I charge on an RC charger. A crude method of determining the condition of cell(s) involves discharging/charging them (with a manual discharge override of 3.0-3.2V) to verify capacity along with predefined rest periods on a granite block (heatsink) before verifying voltage (DMM) and IR (ESR meter). I shoot for 20°C ambient (easy enough in an air conditioned environment) monitored with a Kestrel 3500. Using the datasets gleaned from above, I calculate true C ratings, bin the cell(s) and determine the rates I wish to charge at (almost always in the 0.5C range unless time constraints dictate a full 1C rate).



Marrying cells without binning them is a simple reliance on the manufacture location and date codes stamped on the cell used in conjuction with purchase dates to create a matched set. A better way is to profile cells over a period of time using the aforementioned methods. Take the case where you have four HG2 and four 30Q cells. One of the HG2 may exhibit a discharge/IR/capacity profile closer to a 30Q than with the other HG2.

 

[The Cromwell]

Yep to really have a matched pair of batteries you have to test them, just like matched pairs of transistors.

 

[Real Extract in Seattle]

Unlike NiCad batteries, lithium-ion batteries do not have a charge memory. That means deep-discharge cycles are not required. In fact, it's better for the battery to use partial-discharge cycles.

There is one exception. Battery experts suggest that after 30 charges, you should allow lithium-ion batteries to almost completely discharge. Continuous partial discharges create a condition called digital memory, decreasing the accuracy of the device's power gauge. So let the battery discharge to the cut-off point and then recharge. The power gauge will be recalibrated.